From: owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com (97up-list-digest)
To: 97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 97up-list-digest V2 #215
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97up-list-digest Friday, August 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 215



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply
RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply
RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report
RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report
RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report
RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report
FTE 97up - Multiple Chipped Vehicles
Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply -Reply
FTE 97up - PSD mileage report
FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question
RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question
Re: FTE 97up - 2000 Extended E-350 Van - What's New?
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question
FTE 97up - Re: Camper Certification
Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question
Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply
RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question
RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question -Reply
RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 06:19:25 -0500
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply

Yes, you do have to run higher octane (91 - 93), but on the 1st 2 tanks
of gas, I increased 2 mpg. That more than offsets the cost of the
higher octane fuel. When I decided to try this chip, I decided that I
would attribute the cost of the chip to the added performance, but I would
need to see an increase in MPG to justifty the additional opperating
expenses. So far, i am seeing just that.


Mike Strukel

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dan Gaudenti [mailto:gaudent qnet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 7:04 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply


I think one thing you have to pay for with the extra HP and torque is the
higher price of 92 octane fuel the Superchip requires. You do get
slightly higher MPG, but not enough to offset the higher cost of 92
octane.

I'm sure Ford could set-up the engines for more power using 92 octane, but
I think they would loose a good selling point (requires only 87 octane
fuel) if everybody else's truck can run on 87.

Danny


> If these chips are so "super," why is it that FORD, with it's massive
> engineering and research capabilities cannot develop a chip with the same
> supposed improvements? Relatively speaking, what price might one pay for
> pulling more horsepower and performance out of a stock engine?
>
> Dan in Denver
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 06:25:42 -0500
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply

Keith is right on the money with this. If factory equipped trucks were
all required to run high octane fuel, sale would bottom out. Most
people are NOT concerned with performance and are more focused on operating
expenses.
The change in shift points also would be frowned upon by most people. Now
you can feel the tranny shift. In fact, I had one person tell me that I
had a problem with mine, since you could FEEL the tranny shift.

Like I said in my original post, I was very skeptical at 1st, but I am
sold on it so far.

Mike Strukel

- -----Original Message-----
From: Keith Veren [mailto:Spectrum-EHS worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 8:51 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply


Come-on, this has been discussed many time before. Think about it,
aftermarket chips change transmission shift points so gears engage "harder"
and "quicker" something that I like and many enthusiast like, but the
general population of Soccer Moms and Grandmoms do not want. Also,
upgrading with a chip advances the timing more (can make engine run a tad
hotter) requires high-octane gas, may not idle as smoothly, etc. Ford
designs it's chip for the "middle of the road" standard-issue Mr. and Mrs.
driver, NOT the "enthusiasts" that many of us are. Could Ford design a chip
with more "pep"?? Of course the could! Will they?? Not for standard
vehicles. On certain specialty vehicles, like the 150 lightning, I am sure
the chips get "tweaked" for more performance. Same goes for any aftermarket
performance item (headers, intake manifolds, air lockers, etc.)


Keith



- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel M. Richmeier
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply


>If these chips are so "super," why is it that FORD, with it's massive
>engineering and research capabilities cannot develop a chip with the same
>supposed improvements? Relatively speaking, what price might one pay for
>pulling more horsepower and performance out of a stock engine?
>
>Dan in Denver
>
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:13:18 -0500
From: "Don Marsee"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report

Yes, I am using 93 octane. One of the benefits of the Superchip is that is
allows the engine to take advantage of the higher level of octane.

Take Care,
Don in Nashville

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Steve J. Hodson
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:12 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report


Have you had to use 92 octane fuel with your chip V10's? The superchip web
site I visited seemed to indicate this would be required
- -----Original Message-----
From: Don Marsee
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report


>Good to hear from another V10 owner with a Superchip. I installed mine
this
>past weekend as well. So far so great. The improved shifting and better
>acceleration are what I can report to this point. I haven't used a tank of
>gas yet - I'll find some reason to use the gas this weekend - and then I'll
>report any MPG changes.
>
>Take Care,
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Don in Nashville
>'99 F-250 SuperDuty SuperCab w/ 8' box, Woodland Green, V10, Auto, 4WD ORP,
>Towing Pkg. & Mirrors
>Additions: Superchip, Chrome Nerf Bars, LINE-X bedliner, Ventvisor Window
>deflectors, Bugflector II
>Coming Additions: Toolbox, K&N filters, Exhaust??, ...
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:28:44 -0500
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report

91 - 93 octane, but I have been told that it will run on 89 without any
pinging. You will just not see quite as much of a performance gain.


Mike Strukel

- -----Original Message-----
From: Vaughn (VDB) [mailto:wolf enter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 11:38 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report



What octane do you need after installing
said chip? And is there going to be pinging
problems like with some dodge engines I heard
about?


Vaughn




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:32:15 -0500
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report

Don,


Let us know what you are seeing for gas mileage after a couple of tanks.


Mike Strukel

- -----Original Message-----
From: Don Marsee [mailto:DonMarsee home.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 7:13 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report


Yes, I am using 93 octane. One of the benefits of the Superchip is that is
allows the engine to take advantage of the higher level of octane.

Take Care,
Don in Nashville

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Steve J. Hodson
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:12 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report


Have you had to use 92 octane fuel with your chip V10's? The superchip web
site I visited seemed to indicate this would be required
- -----Original Message-----
From: Don Marsee
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report


>Good to hear from another V10 owner with a Superchip. I installed mine
this
>past weekend as well. So far so great. The improved shifting and better
>acceleration are what I can report to this point. I haven't used a tank of
>gas yet - I'll find some reason to use the gas this weekend - and then I'll
>report any MPG changes.
>
>Take Care,
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Don in Nashville
>'99 F-250 SuperDuty SuperCab w/ 8' box, Woodland Green, V10, Auto, 4WD ORP,
>Towing Pkg. & Mirrors
>Additions: Superchip, Chrome Nerf Bars, LINE-X bedliner, Ventvisor Window
>deflectors, Bugflector II
>Coming Additions: Toolbox, K&N filters, Exhaust??, ...
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:41:30 -0500
From: "Don Marsee"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report

Will do. I have a spreadsheet with a couple of interesting columns. The
one I'll be eager to see is my cost per mile (and MPG of course.)

Don

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Strukel, Mike
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 7:32 AM
To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Superchip report


Don,


Let us know what you are seeing for gas mileage after a couple of tanks.


Mike Strukel


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 05:45:04 PDT
From: "Scott Matus"
Subject: FTE 97up - Multiple Chipped Vehicles

I worked with a guy that had a "typhoon" (I know wrong Mfgr), anyway he had
a dash mounted switch that controlled 4 different chips for the V6 in this
vehicle. He actually beta tested chips for the producre of these chips.
Yes, this has been done!

Scott.

- --------Original Message--------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 00:04:59 -0400
From: "Craig Deman"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply

Then here is a solution. Ford should make a truck with 2 or even 3
superchips have a button in the truck to select which road condition(s)
favor which chip. If you plan to go off-roading then select the chip which
performs on that condition. Have one set for economy highway driving and
one for pulling...

Seems to me it could be done...



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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:06:47 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply -Reply

George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162

>>> Keith Veren 08/11/99 09:50pm >>>
Come-on, this has been discussed many time before. Think about it,
aftermarket chips change transmission shift points so gears engage "harder"
and "quicker" something that I like and many enthusiast like,

Also remember the faster shift actually increases the transmission life. those slow smooth shifts people like so much
casue wear and tear on the shifting mechanisms and generate extra heat. A fast shift will improve reliability, unless
you have too much right foot and break something.


>If these chips are so "super," why is it that FORD, with it's massive
>engineering and research capabilities cannot develop a chip with the same
>supposed improvements? Relatively speaking, what price might one pay for
>pulling more horsepower and performance out of a stock engine.

Can you say EPA. One interesting point is that much of what gets programmed into a "stock" chip is determined by
strict emissions requirments or fords comittment to "claen" vehicles. I think, but am not positive, that some of the
increased performance in these chips comes at the cost of higher NOx and CO emissions. funny thing is if you get
better mileage you are actually helping reduce CO2 emissions and therefor reducing global warming compared to use
of the stock chip. The trade off between higher NOx or CO vs higher CO2 emissions is a big environmental debate
these days. this is especially true in the heavy duty diesel market where there is a big lawsuit about this very topic.
Basically EPA is suing the truck manufacturers for tuning their "chips" to get better mileage rather than tune them to
reduce NOx and CO.


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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:04:08 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - PSD mileage report

Well just got back this morning from a quick turnaround trip to Charlotte,NC
about(500) miles, on the way back i knocked down 16.82 mpg 400 miles to 29
gal tank before, the uhoh better be looking for diesel light came on.
crusing was 78-79mph whole way.
On average i figured out the light comes on around 5-6 gal left.

The flying brown,
RS
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:16:10 -0500
From: "Parker Brooks"
Subject: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question

HELP!

i'm getting irritated with how the dealership that i purchased my vehicle
from is explaining how my "finance charge" is calculated by.

i'm looking at the FEDERAL TRUTH IN LENDING DISCLOSURES box. in that it
lists the APR as .9%, then the finance charge of $236.80, then the amount
financed of $17009.00.

why is my calculator saying 1.39% when dividing the above numbers?

what am i missing, cause i'm not getting good reasonable down to earth
answers from the dealership, and ford credit and their CAC isn't helping.

thanks,
parker

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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:33:11 -0500
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question

Parker,


My wife works for Ford Motor Credit in Minneapolis. I will run this by
her and see if I can get an answer tomorrow for you.


Mike Strukel

- -----Original Message-----
From: Parker Brooks [mailto:whoz primary.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 2:16 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com; shotIMES-L AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question


HELP!

i'm getting irritated with how the dealership that i purchased my vehicle
from is explaining how my "finance charge" is calculated by.

i'm looking at the FEDERAL TRUTH IN LENDING DISCLOSURES box. in that it
lists the APR as .9%, then the finance charge of $236.80, then the amount
financed of $17009.00.

why is my calculator saying 1.39% when dividing the above numbers?

what am i missing, cause i'm not getting good reasonable down to earth
answers from the dealership, and ford credit and their CAC isn't helping.

thanks,
parker

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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:13:29 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question

The program I use to figure loans says $17009 for 3 years at 0.9% should
equal payments of 479.06 with a total interest of $237.05.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Parker Brooks
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 2:16 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question


> HELP!
>
> i'm getting irritated with how the dealership that i purchased my vehicle
> from is explaining how my "finance charge" is calculated by.
>
> i'm looking at the FEDERAL TRUTH IN LENDING DISCLOSURES box. in that it
> lists the APR as .9%, then the finance charge of $236.80, then the amount
> financed of $17009.00.
>
> why is my calculator saying 1.39% when dividing the above numbers?
>
> what am i missing, cause i'm not getting good reasonable down to earth
> answers from the dealership, and ford credit and their CAC isn't helping.
>
> thanks,
> parker
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:17:56 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 2000 Extended E-350 Van - What's New?

Chestnut color added, redesigned vinyl and cloth sew styles on seats, front
A/C standard, ABS standard, E-150 commercial now 6700# standard, Handling
package is now standard, Class II/III/IV towing package now includes hitch,

Crew van seatingh configuration available, 5 passenger (two seats in front
with second row bench for 3) and a wire bulkhead behind bench seat.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc
Union, IA 50258

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Jordan
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 7:11 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - 2000 Extended E-350 Van - What's New?


>
> Has anything been posted about what is new or different on the 2000 E-250
> and E-350 cargo and passanger vans? I've checked on the Ford web page but
> didn't find anything.
>
> Also, on the Ford web site I tried their section where you can configure a
> vehical but found the only Econoline option on there was for the E-150.
Is
> there a place on the there or another web site where I can put in the
> options I want and get the suggested price?
>
> I'm looking at special ordering a E-350 extended cargo van but with the
cab
> part having all the options of a passenger van, keyless entry, power
> windows, upgraded captain's chairs, upgraded stereo, rear AC, tow package
> and just about all the other comforts that can be had, but minus the seats
> in the back. We haul dogs and want the room in back for crates and other
> things so don't need the seats. A local dealer has indicated that it's
> about a 12 week order period. Has anyone ordered a 2000 van yet and if
so,
> does it look like they are on track for the time till delivery?
>
> Thanks for any input anyone has.
>
> Mike
>
>
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:52:28 -0400
From: "Kenneth J. Nagy"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question

If you go to www.eloan.com, there are loan calculators there that will give
you the exact breakdown of your loan. Assuming a 3 year loan, the
calculator comes very close showing $237.05 interest over the life of the
loan. Hopefully this helps.

Ken

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Parker Brooks
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 3:16 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question


> HELP!
>
> i'm getting irritated with how the dealership that i purchased my vehicle
> from is explaining how my "finance charge" is calculated by.
>
> i'm looking at the FEDERAL TRUTH IN LENDING DISCLOSURES box. in that it
> lists the APR as .9%, then the finance charge of $236.80, then the amount
> financed of $17009.00.
>
> why is my calculator saying 1.39% when dividing the above numbers?
>
> what am i missing, cause i'm not getting good reasonable down to earth
> answers from the dealership, and ford credit and their CAC isn't helping.
>
> thanks,
> parker
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:54:59 -0700
From: "Harald"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Camper Certification

My 99 F350 with camper package had a slip of paper in the glove box that
listed max camper weight/CG/etc. It was labeled camper certification by
Ford. I'm a US buyer, Canada might be different.


Sincerely,
Harald Stenger


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin

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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:52:25 -0700
From: "Steve J. Hodson"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply

Banks makes a unit called the Transcommand that does switch on and off to
control the shifting curve of the transmission. I'm ordering one for my
truck (~$270). This unit does nothing to timing or fuel settings although a
Banks rep told me that they would likely offer such a unit as a seperate
item in the future. I'm looking at their header / exhaust combination right
now. This adds ~ 50hp and 65 ft-pds of torque with no adjustments to fuel
or timing settings on the computer chip. At ~ $1700 it's a bit expensive so
I'm looking for a cheaper deal from a distributor. If they offer an engine
computer chip later it will be designed to work best with their header /
exhaust combination.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Craig Deman
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply


>Then here is a solution. Ford should make a truck with 2 or even 3
>superchips have a button in the truck to select which road condition(s)
>favor which chip. If you plan to go off-roading then select the chip which
>performs on that condition. Have one set for economy highway driving and
>one for pulling...
>
>Seems to me it could be done...
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:59:02 -0500
From: "Karl Nyhus"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question

>Parker Brooks wrote:
>i'm getting irritated with how the dealership
>that i purchased my vehicle from is explaining
>how my "finance charge" is calculated by.
>i'm looking at the FEDERAL TRUTH IN LENDING
>DISCLOSURES box. in that it lists the APR as .9%,
>then the finance charge of $236.80, then the amount
>financed of $17009.00.
>
>why is my calculator saying 1.39% when dividing
>the above numbers?

The longer the term of loan repayment, the bigger the finance charge you
pay. The only way yours would work out to exactly 0.9% annual interest rate
is if your contract specified "simple interest" and you paid off the loan by
the end of the first year.

But you can't get a simple interest loan from a bank. The bank calculates
the interest to be paid every month (assuming that's how often you pay) on
the amount you still owe at the time the payment is due. It multiplies the
amount you still owe by one/twelfth of the annual interest rate.

As others have said, it looks like you are paying over a 3-year term. If you
were to stretch that out to 30 years, you would end up paying over $30,000
in finance charges.

Assuming you're making 36 monthly payments of about $479.06, here's a
36-line list of what your payment is going for. The left-hand column is the
interest you pay. You'll notice that the amount of interest gets smaller as
time goes on because you owe less each month. The right-hand column is how
much actually goes to paying for the truck.

(12.76) (466.30)
(12.41) (466.65)
(12.06) (467.00)
(11.71) (467.35)
(11.36) (467.70)
(11.01) (468.05)
(10.65) (468.40)
(10.30) (468.75)
(9.95) (469.10)
(9.60) (469.46)
(9.25) (469.81)
(8.90) (470.16)
(8.54) (470.51)
(8.19) (470.87)
(7.84) (471.22)
(7.48) (471.57)
(7.13) (471.93)
(6.78) (472.28)
(6.42) (472.64)
(6.07) (472.99)
(5.71) (473.34)
(5.36) (473.70)
(5.00) (474.05)
(4.65) (474.41)
(4.29) (474.77)
(3.93) (475.12)
(3.58) (475.48)
(3.22) (475.83)
(2.86) (476.19)
(2.51) (476.55)
(2.15) (476.91)
(1.79) (477.26)
(1.43) (477.62)
(1.08) (477.98)
(0.72) (478.34)
(0.36) (478.70)
====== =========
(237.03) (17,009.00)

Mr. Brooks, I hope you weren't one of those kids who said, "I don't need to
study this math crap. What good's it for any way?"


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:51:25 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question

One other thing to remeber is that when early payoff comes around you will
find that the interest is calculated on the basis of the rule of 78's whic
front loads the interest to the early phases of the loans. About the only
ones that don't do this are credit unions who charge simple interest on loans
and allow you a little more flexibility on payoff with no built in early
payoff pemalty. The downside is you don't get .9% APR. but if you take the
rebate credit you may make out justa as well.

John G.

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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:55:03 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Superchip report -Reply

It is done, but not by Ford. GMC does it on their automatics. They have a
switch which alters the shift points for trailering. Allows you to stay in OD
and cuts down on the shift hunting. (OR so They say). Interstingly, It
doesn't seem to show up in Chevrolet .

JohnG
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:04:19 -0500
From: "pennhead"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question

Mr. Nyhus, I hope you weren't one of those kids who said, "I don't need to
study this grammar crap. What good's it for any way?"

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Karl Nyhus
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 5:59 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
question


>Parker Brooks wrote:
>i'm getting irritated with how the dealership
>that i purchased my vehicle from is explaining
>how my "finance charge" is calculated by.
>i'm looking at the FEDERAL TRUTH IN LENDING
>DISCLOSURES box. in that it lists the APR as .9%,
>then the finance charge of $236.80, then the amount
>financed of $17009.00.
>
>why is my calculator saying 1.39% when dividing
>the above numbers?

The longer the term of loan repayment, the bigger the finance charge you
pay. The only way yours would work out to exactly 0.9% annual interest rate
is if your contract specified "simple interest" and you paid off the loan by
the end of the first year.

But you can't get a simple interest loan from a bank. The bank calculates
the interest to be paid every month (assuming that's how often you pay) on
the amount you still owe at the time the payment is due. It multiplies the
amount you still owe by one/twelfth of the annual interest rate.

As others have said, it looks like you are paying over a 3-year term. If you
were to stretch that out to 30 years, you would end up paying over $30,000
in finance charges.

Assuming you're making 36 monthly payments of about $479.06, here's a
36-line list of what your payment is going for. The left-hand column is the
interest you pay. You'll notice that the amount of interest gets smaller as
time goes on because you owe less each month. The right-hand column is how
much actually goes to paying for the truck.

(12.76) (466.30)
(12.41) (466.65)
(12.06) (467.00)
(11.71) (467.35)
(11.36) (467.70)
(11.01) (468.05)
(10.65) (468.40)
(10.30) (468.75)
(9.95) (469.10)
(9.60) (469.46)
(9.25) (469.81)
(8.90) (470.16)
(8.54) (470.51)
(8.19) (470.87)
(7.84) (471.22)
(7.48) (471.57)
(7.13) (471.93)
(6.78) (472.28)
(6.42) (472.64)
(6.07) (472.99)
(5.71) (473.34)
(5.36) (473.70)
(5.00) (474.05)
(4.65) (474.41)
(4.29) (474.77)
(3.93) (475.12)
(3.58) (475.48)
(3.22) (475.83)
(2.86) (476.19)
(2.51) (476.55)
(2.15) (476.91)
(1.79) (477.26)
(1.43) (477.62)
(1.08) (477.98)
(0.72) (478.34)
(0.36) (478.70)
====== =========
(237.03) (17,009.00)

Mr. Brooks, I hope you weren't one of those kids who said, "I don't need to
study this math crap. What good's it for any way?"


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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:53:27 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question -Reply

The key to understanding is the term APR whcih stands for annual percentage rate not 4 year percentage rate.
Basicaly it works this way, the 0.9% rate is applies to the amount you owe each year not over the whole 4 year
period (therefore the term ANNUAL). What you are talking about is simple interest, banks do not ever use simple
interest. Only the mob uses simple interest, banks get more but hide it by using terms like APR or compound interest.

Basically this is why an 8% interest home loan on a $100,000 house ends up costing you close to 300,000 in payoff
not $108,000. For example my 98,000 town house payment is 933 per month. At 12 payments per year for 30 years
thats $335,880 which includes taxes and insurance but you get the idea. You should feel lucky, Super Duty trucks
don't get special rates so my 25K truck has a 33K payoff in 5 years. thats a 32% simple loan but is called a 7.8%
APR loan by the bank.

Don't try to fight this one it is a battle lost long ago. Banks will never make sense because they refuse to do math in a
simple and straightforward way which the average joe can understand.

George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:30:22 -0400
From: CnC
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question -Reply

Nice response, very informative. Thanks, I have a better understanding now
why I should pay cash up front.

At 04:53 PM 8/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
>The key to understanding is the term APR whcih stands for annual
percentage rate not 4 year percentage rate.
>Basicaly it works this way, the 0.9% rate is applies to the amount you owe
each year not over the whole 4 year
>period (therefore the term ANNUAL). What you are talking about is simple
interest, banks do not ever use simple
>interest. Only the mob uses simple interest, banks get more but hide it
by using terms like APR or compound interest.
>
>Basically this is why an 8% interest home loan on a $100,000 house ends up
costing you close to 300,000 in payoff
>not $108,000. For example my 98,000 town house payment is 933 per month.
At 12 payments per year for 30 years
>thats $335,880 which includes taxes and insurance but you get the idea.
You should feel lucky, Super Duty trucks
>don't get special rates so my 25K truck has a 33K payoff in 5 years.
thats a 32% simple loan but is called a 7.8%
>APR loan by the bank.
>
>Don't try to fight this one it is a battle lost long ago. Banks will
never make sense because they refuse to do math in a
>simple and straightforward way which the average joe can understand.
>
>George Croll
>EPA-OAR-ARD
>(202)564-0162
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:50:46 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing question-Reply

That's why I pay cash for all my vehicles, besides the financial benefits
and peace-of-mind, I love the look on the salesman's and finance manager's
faces when they say "now, do you want our special lease program or our
special loan program, and how are you want to finance this, over 3, 4 or 5
years?", and then I say "No thank you, we agreed on this price for the truck
(I say, while pointing to the lowest number on the sheet, before any
interest or finance or other charges) who do I make the check payable to?"
Wow! Then I often get the third-degree because I never ever let-on that I am
paying cash (or leasing or buying w/loan) until the deal is done and all the
various paperwork options have been prepared and are ready to be signed.
They act like they did all this extra work for me "finding and securing" the
lowest and best rates and lease deals in the whole Northeast! They demand
that they get an opportunity to go over the loan and lease numbers with me
as they say "let us show you the right way to get in this vehicle, if you
only put down $2,500 and borrow the rest, you can use the cash you save now
to make a killing in the stock market" whereupon I say, "I want to buy a
car, not obtain financial consulting services, where are my new keys?"
Beaten, but not dead yet, they screw their happy sales faces back on and
"remind" me that the total cost for the vehicle is XXXXX + $1,200. Then I
say, no, it isn't. Then they say, well, this $1,200 is our super-duper
giveaway extravaganza on the new, improved short-term/long-term Extended
Warrantee Program!!! Surely you must get that, they say. "You could be out
many, many thousands of dollars for repairs if you don't get this". "We
can't let you out of here without making sure you have the protection
offered by our Extended Warrantee Program!!!, why, that would be malpractice
on our part!!!" Finally, when I tell them that I will listen to them and
discuss the various warrantee and other options, but I will have to charge
them a standard consulting rate of say, $150/hour, and I require a $600
retainer before we start, they give me the (now signed) paperwork, take the
check, give me my keys, and run away........to their next (potential)
victim.....

Keith

- -----Original Message-----
From: CnC
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 8:32 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - help understanding ford credit/ financing
question-Reply


>Nice response, very informative. Thanks, I have a better understanding now
>why I should pay cash up front.
>
>At 04:53 PM 8/12/99 -0400, you wrote:....

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