97up-list-digest V2 #196

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97up-list-digest Friday, July 23 1999 Volume 02 : Number 196

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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 97up - Overdrive
FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices part II
FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 pricing III
Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices
FTE 97up - Ford has Fixed First BIG Problem on 99.5 PSD
Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 pricing III
Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 pricing III
RE: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat
RE: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat
Re: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat
Re: FTE 97up - PSD Longevity
FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices part IV
Re: FTE 97up - Overdrive
Re: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat
FTE 97up - ADMIN: New Ford Superduty Trucks
Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices part II
Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: New Ford Superduty Trucks

=======================================================================

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:10:20 -0400
From: "D'Amelio, Stephen M."
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Overdrive

I always heard that it was the speed of the
pump (due to the relatively slow shaft speed
in overdrive) that could not sufficiently cool
the tranny under those conditions. But that was
back in the days when manufacturers stated
NOT to tow in overdrive.

I assume, since today those warnings have
disappeared, that they have sped up the
pump while in overdrive.

I still shut OD off when I tow my boat
(7,000lbs) with the possible exception of
long, straight, highway runs.

Steve D'Amelio
Systems Administrator
CVS/Pharmacy
1 CVS Drive
Woonsocket, RI 02895
401-765-1500 x3351 FAX 401-762-4607
mailto:smdamelio

cvs.com http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cvs.com

> ----------
> From: bwat

wa.freei.net[SMTP:bwat

wa.freei.net]
> Reply To: 97up-list

ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 8:17 PM
> To: 97up-list

ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 97up - Overdrive
>
> I'd like to clarify the use of Overdrive in my 99.5 Superduty.
> That is when hauling or towing is The Gear ratio in OD that
> causes problems (Lugging the engine?) or is it the frequent
> shifts from 3rd to OD and back? . Is it ok to use overdrive if
> I "trottle jockey" it and keep those shifts to a minimum?
> Thanks, Brent
>
> V10, so far with no problems!
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:33:47 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices part II

F-150 Supercab Styleside Invoice Retail
139" Work Series 4x2 16195 17875
139" XL 4x2 16534
18905
139" XLT 4x2 19127
21955
139" Lariat 4x2 22302
25690
157" Work series 4x2 18165 16450
157" XL 4x2 16789
19205
157" XLT 4x2 19382
22255
157" Lariat 4x2 22557
25990

139" Work Series 4x4 19477 21605
139" XL 4x4 19819
22770
139" XLT 4x4 22365
25765
139" Lariat 4x4 25103
28985
157" Work Series 4x4 19733 21895
157" XL 4x4 20074
23070
157" XLT 4x4 22620
26065
157" Lariat 4x4 25358
29285

139" Flareside XL 4x2 17392 19915
139" Flareside XLT 4x2 19985 22965
139" Flareside Lariat 4x2 23160 26700
139" Flareside XL 4x4 20678 23780
139" Flareside XLT 4x4 23228 26780
139" Flareside Lariat 4x4 25961 29995

DESTINATION AND DELIVERY 640 640

Please watch out for type-o's but other than that these prices should be
correct. I'll try to get Options posted after while.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Union, IA 50258

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:53:34 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 pricing III

Here's powertrain pricing.
Invoice
Retail
Engine
4.2L V-6 STD
STD
Discount 4.2L V-6 (Work Series) 425 500
4.6L V-8 4x4 Supercab & Lariat STD STD
4.6L V-8 ALL other 638
750
5.4L V-8 4x4 Supercab & Lariat 680 800
5.4L V-8 ALL other 1318
1550

Transmission

5 Spd Manual STD
STD
Discount Manual w/ A/C 425
500
Automatic Overdrive 931
1095
(note: free on Lariat due to package discounts)

Axle

Optional Axle Ratio 43
50
Limited Slip Axle 243
285

Payload Packages

7700 GVW pkg. 1101
1295
(used to be LD F250, requires 5.4L auto)

Tires

4x2 235/70/16 BSW AS (WS,XL,XLT) STD STD
4x2 235/70/16 OWL AS (XL,XLT) 107 125
4x2 255/70/16 OWL AS (XL,XLT) 251 295
4x2 275/60/17 OWL AS (Lariat) STD STD

4x4 235/70/16 BSW AS (WS/XL,XLT) STD STD
4x4 235/70/16 OWL AS (XL/XLT) 107 125
4x4 255/70/16 OWL AT (WS,XL,XLT) 340 400
4x4 265/70/17 OWL AT (Lariat) STD STD
4x4 LT245/75/16 OWL AT (XL,XLT) 591 695
4x4 LT245/75/16 OWL AT (Lariat) 293 345
4x4 LT265/70/17 OWL AT 255 300
Note Requires OFF Road Package (I believe this to be the Goodyear ATS
tires that were used on this years OFF ROAD)

SEATS

Vinyl Bench (Work Series) STD STD
Cloth Bench (Work Series) 213 250

Cloth Bench (XL) STD
STD
Vinyl Bench (XL) n/c
n/c
40/60 Cloth Bench (XL) 221
260

40/60 Split Bench (XLT) STD
STD
Captains Chairs (XLT) 417
490
Rear stoworage bid delete (R/C XLT) 51 60

40/60 Leather bench (Lariat) STD STD
Leather Captains Chairs (Lariat) 417 490

More to come!

Nathan

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:19:16 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices

No, that will be a 2001 model not a 2000.

Nathan

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Plocek
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices

> Anything on the 150 Crew-cab pricing yet?
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:43:51 -0500
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: FTE 97up - Ford has Fixed First BIG Problem on 99.5 PSD

Got the truck back yesterday, and engine and under carriage almost spotless.
I was really surprised they did such a great job!

Must of been the box of donuts I dropped off in the morning (I remembered
Nathan).

What broke was the high pressure oil pump. They replaced it and gasket,
along with topping off the oil, and clean-up all under warranty. I didn't get
any paper work, just the keys and my truck. I would imagine its all logged in
to the computer?

My only complaint is that I now have very fine scratches in the top of the grill.
I took pre-cautions to cover my Lariat seats with a heavy canvas drop cloth and
protect the steering wheel with a terry cloth wrap. But I didn't think to protect
the grill. And this turned out to be the Ford Technician's work from area.

The scratches aren't deep or the kind I would demand a grill replacement. In
time these type of scratches would be acquired through normal road use. But
you know how it goes: the truck is still new to me and the honeymoon hasn't
ended.

Any tip or advice on dealing with the scratches would be appreciated.

Charles.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:58:46 +0200
From: eh60ip

mail.apcnet.com (Don Francis)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 pricing III

Nathan, do you have the 2000 model pricing on the F350's yet? If so,
what was the percentage of increase over the 1999 models?

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:56:19 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 pricing III

There is no percentage of increase just on trucks and on certain
options, others stayed the same. I'll post it as I get time.

Nathan

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Don Francis
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 1999 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 pricing III

> Nathan, do you have the 2000 model pricing on the F350's yet? If so,
> what was the percentage of increase over the 1999 models?
>
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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:04:00 -0400
From: "D'Amelio, Stephen M."
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat

I can't answer your question, and don't know
your reason for wanting a lower temp
thermostat. But keep in mind that an
engine will produce more power the
higher you can keep the engine temp,
up to a point.

Steve D'Amelio
Systems Administrator
CVS/Pharmacy
1 CVS Drive
Woonsocket, RI 02895
401-765-1500 x3351 FAX 401-762-4607
mailto:smdamelio

cvs.com http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cvs.com

> ----------
> From: Dean Baruffi[SMTP:dean.baruffi

yale.edu]
> Reply To: 97up-list

ford-trucks.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 2:43 PM
> To: 97up-list

ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat
>
> Anyone know what temperature thermostat is in the current F-150 with a
> 5.4L?
>
> Anyone know where I can get a colder one?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:06:14 -0400
From: Dean Baruffi
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat

At what point are you talking about?

Current thermostats are around 190-195 deg.

If you lower the operating temp by say 10-20 deg. you have the ability to
create a denser
air/fuel mixture entering into the engine, thus allowing the engine to
create more power.
I'm now engine expert but it makes some sense to me.

Why do you think they have those "cool cans" to cool off your fuel before
it enters the engine? So you can create a denser air/fuel mixture.

Dean Baruffi
Network Administrator
Yale University

At 03:04 PM 7/22/99 -0400, you wrote:
>I can't answer your question, and don't know
>your reason for wanting a lower temp
>thermostat. But keep in mind that an
>engine will produce more power the
>higher you can keep the engine temp,
>up to a point.
>
>
>Steve D'Amelio
>Systems Administrator
>CVS/Pharmacy
>1 CVS Drive
>Woonsocket, RI 02895
>401-765-1500 x3351 FAX 401-762-4607
>mailto:smdamelio

cvs.com http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cvs.com
>
>> ----------
>> From: Dean Baruffi[SMTP:dean.baruffi

yale.edu]
>> Reply To: 97up-list

ford-trucks.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 2:43 PM
>> To: 97up-list

cvs.com http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cvs.com
>
> > ----------
> > From: Dean Baruffi[SMTP:dean.baruffi

yale.edu]
> > Reply To: 97up-list

ford-trucks.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 2:43 PM
> > To: 97up-list

ford-trucks.com
> > Subject: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat
> >
> > Anyone know what temperature thermostat is in the current F-150 with a
> > 5.4L?
> >
> > Anyone know where I can get a colder one?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:45:00 -0600
From: Alan Bowes
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - PSD Longevity

This is not an attempt to "fuel" a diesel vs. gasoline engine war, since they
both have their advantages, but I just want to point out a couple of
often-overlooked points.

Diesel engine longevity is part truth, part mythology. They are more "massive"
for a given output, but remember that the extra mass of a diesel engine is
designed primarily to make up for the increased internal stresses under which it
runs. It has to be heavier just to make up for these stresses, which include
greater inertial forces for a given RPM (due to stoke and rod ratio geometric
characteristics), higher combustion chamber pressures, sharper combustion shock
waves (due to things like a large volume of fuel-air mixture igniting at nearly
the same instant instead of propagating from a single ignition point), extra
heat, etc.

Some diesel engines are more overdesigned than others. The truly overdesigned
ones in heavy industrial or shipping applications tend to create the reputation
(which is often true) of diesels being heavy-duty workhorses. However, there
have also been a LOT of flimsy diesels with a short life expectancy, far shorter
than the average gasoline engine. As to the durability of the PSD, my impression
is that it looks pretty good so far, but only time will tell how long they last.

The main point is that ANY engine, either gasoline or diesel, can be under- or
over-built. It depends on the manufacturer's philosophy, the quality of the
engineering and manufacturing, and to no small degree, the marketing people (who
generally don't want to give anything away, and who can set prices based on
"perceived" value rather than upon cost or some more objective measure).

There is no reason why a gasoline engine in your truck won't go 300K miles.
Maintain it well (top-of-the-line oil, proper thermostat, filters, etc.) and
drive it "reasonably." Naturally, the SAME thing applies to diesels.

As an example of a long-lasting gasoline engine, a friend drove his old Volvo to
and from work every day (120-mile round trip) for something like 9 years before
he noticed any loss of power and gave it a valve job. The engine still had the
original bottom end and was still running like a top when he finally sold it.

Another example: I owned a '76 F-250 360 that I put 130,000 miles on before a
certain "mechanic" (no, it wasn't me) dropped a small nut down through the carb
while tuning the engine and managed to bend a valve. When I replaced the valve I
checked the other valves. All were in great shape, as were the guides. In
addition, there was practically no noticeable ridge in the cylinders. I always
used top-quality synthetic oil, kept the proper thermostat in the engine, kept
the filters clean, etc. And I might add that this truck had been through six
Minnesota winters by then, parked outside all the time, and with countless
below-zero starts. After replacing the bent valve, the engine was ready for
another 130,000 miles. Also keep in mind that this engine did not employ exotic
valve/seat/guide alloys, and it was also running gasohol and a variety of other
unknown blends of questionable pedigree.

In the past, a gasoline engine typically required a valve job long before the
bottom half needed work. Now (even with the low tetraethyl lead levels in modern
gasolines and questionable lead substitutes), the tough alloys used in the
valves, seats, and guides should allow them to last even longer, and with less
valve/seat erosion and guide wear than in the past.

Alan

Ford4x4

aol.com wrote:

> I'm sold on the PSD. What is a good average live expectancy for the late
> model PSD? Longevity has always been a selling point for a Diesel engines,
> however it would appear gas engines have come along way. I often hear on gas
> engines with 300K and no major problems.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Stewart
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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:38:14 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices part IV

invoice Retail
4 W ABS/4wheel disc brakes 319
375
(no charge on XLT or Lariat)
4x4 Off Road Group (Lariat) 383
450
4x4 Off Road Group (XLT) 846
995
Air conditioning 684
805
Cab Steps, Black platform (4x2 Styleside) 213
250
Cab steps, Black tubular (4x4 and Flareside) 298
350
Carpeting (XL) 85
100
Convinence Group (XL) 357
420
Electronic SOF 4x4 136
160
HD Cooling/electrical 178
210
fog Lamps (4x4 only) 119
140
(standard on XLT and Lariat)
Paint, Lower accent two tone 192
225
Power Seat/autolamps (XLT) 306
360
Keyless Entry/ANTI THEFT (XLT) 128
150
Skid Plates -(Reg Cab 4x4 120" WB) 68
80
Skid Plates (all other 4x4) 136
160
Sport Group (XL 4x2) 421
495
Sport Group (XL 4x4) 506
595
Sport Group (XLT 4x2) 506
595
Sport Group (XLT 4x4) 506
595
Trailer towing PKg 340
400
Wheels Polished Aluminum (XL) 170
200
Window, Sliding Rear 107
125
Tonneau Cover (SOFT) 128
150

AUDIO

AM/FM Cassette (XL) 111
130
AM/FM CD (XL) 273
320
AM/FM CD (XLT) 162
190
CD changer 6 disc w/ premium cassette
(XLT)
340 400
(Lariat)
178 210

Please note that there will also be a FDAF and Fuel charge on the invoice
(but the guides don't list those so I'm not sure how much)

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Union, IA 50258

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:40:49 -0700
From: Gene Ball
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Overdrive

I think it all depends on the truck and what you are pulling!
If the truck pulls without to much trouble then pull it !
All this depends on torque, h.p, and gearing!
I have a CC SD 4X4 V10 with 3.73 gears.
And I pull a 4500lb boat, in overdrive! On flat road and down hill!
I do all the shifting in and out of overdrive myself.
I think the truck pulls this ok, but I would really like a set of 4.10 or
even
a set of 4.30 gears in this thing!
Then it would pull a little better, and or I could run a little taller tire,
being it
is 4X4! But I bought it right off the lot and thats the gearing it came
with!
Gene

bwat

wa.freei.net wrote:

> I'd like to clarify the use of Overdrive in my 99.5 Superduty.
> That is when hauling or towing is The Gear ratio in OD that
> causes problems (Lugging the engine?) or is it the frequent
> shifts from 3rd to OD and back? . Is it ok to use overdrive if
> I "trottle jockey" it and keep those shifts to a minimum?
> Thanks, Brent
>
> V10, so far with no problems!
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:52:17 -0500
From: Glenn S See
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F-150 themostat

I couldn't resist jumping in on this one.

Here's some internet sites with thermostat info (in order of relevancy):

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://autos.yahoo.com/repair/results/ques019.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.bronco.

com /ebr/bronco-talk/1996/april/0484.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thunderracing.com/tstat.htm

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.osbornauto.com/cooling.htm

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://stangnet.com/tech/thermostat.html

Most web sites with info on cooling systems include the following caveat:

"... if the thermostat must be replaced, be sure to install the EXACT
SAME temperature setting as the one that was removed. This is especially
crucial in late model vehicles as the coolant temperature is used as an
input for the on-board computer systems and deviation from this preset
temp will drastically effect the driveability of the vehicle...."

From previous posts:

"...keep in mind that an engine will produce more power the higher you
can keep the engine temp, up to a point.... "

I think this is true only in ideal engines (reversible Carnot cycle)
which are not currently available on the aftermarket......lol

"...If you lower the operating temp by say 10-20 deg. you have the
ability to create a denser air/fuel mixture..."

True

"...I always thought that optimum performance was achieved through a
cooler engine....."

Interpreting "optimum performance" as most efficient operation (lowest
specific fuel consumption for given power output), I believe it is more a
function of the temperature difference of the inlet fuel-air temperature
and combustion gas temperature than of the overall engine temperature.
If ceramic engines were available we'd get incredible gas mileage without
needing any cooling.

Let the flames begin...........hehe

Steve
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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:21:52 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: New Ford Superduty Trucks

Dear Ford Truck Enthusiasts list members:

Those of you who have been here a while know the drill. :-O

We have a new advertiser on our web site. Since the beginning,
our practice with web site advertisers has been to make a brief
announcement for 2 days (this is day 1 of 2). This is our only
exception to commercial advertising on our mailing lists.
Please show your appreciation to them for helping to support the
web site and the lists by checking out their site. Here is the
description provided by them:

"New Ford Superduty Trucks Available!
Rollingwheels.com is a new car auction website. We specialize in
hard to find vehicles. During our initial pilot pphase we will be
auctioning several new Ford Superduty Trucks. As we move out of
the pilot phase many more vehicles will become available on the
website."

We would like to you to let then know you heard about them via
Ford Truck Enthusiasts. You can visit them at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.rollingwheels.com

Now returning you to our regularly scheduled program...

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts

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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:38:14 -0400
From: "Craig Deman"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 2000 F-150 Prices part II

I missed the F-150 Prices part 1 any chance u can send them to me.

Thanks

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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:12:58 EDT
From: RSnovi

aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: New Ford Superduty Trucks

In a message dated 7/22/99 10:32:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kpayne

ford-trucks.com writes:

well doesnt look like any smokeing deals are to be made there by the looks of
their site i all their bids beat by plenty.

RS

Date: 7/22/99 10:32:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: kpayne

ford-trucks.com (Ken Payne)
Sender: owner-97up-list

ford-trucks.com
Reply-to:
HREF="mailto:97up-list

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To: pre61-list

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ford-trucks.com, pre48-list

ford-trucks.com

Dear Ford Truck Enthusiasts list members:

Those of you who have been here a while know the drill. :-O

We have a new advertiser on our web site. Since the beginning,
our practice with web site advertisers has been to make a brief
announcement for 2 days (this is day 1 of 2). This is our only
exception to commercial advertising on our mailing lists.
Please show your appreciation to them for helping to support the
web site and the lists by checking out their site. Here is the
description provided by them:

"New Ford Superduty Trucks Available!
Rollingwheels.com is a new car auction website. We specialize in
hard to find vehicles. During our initial pilot pphase we will be
auctioning several new Ford Superduty Trucks. As we move out of
the pilot phase many more vehicles will become available on the
website."

We would like to you to let then know you heard about them via
Ford Truck Enthusiasts. You can visit them at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.rollingwheels.com

Now returning you to our regularly scheduled program...

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts

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