From: owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com (97up-list-digest)
To: 97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 97up-list-digest V2 #193
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97up-list-digest Tuesday, July 20 1999 Volume 02 : Number 193



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still
FTE 97up - F-150 Transmissions
FTE 97up - Warranty and Synth Oil Service
RE: FTE 97up - How to maintain my warranty when I don't use my Ford Dealer for service
Re: FTE 97up - 99 F350 PSD Experience after 3,000 mile trip
Re: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still
FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions
Re: FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions
Re: FTE 97up - F-150 Transmissions
Re:FTE 97up - Tranny problems still
Re: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still
RE: FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions
Re: FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions
Re: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still
FTE 97up - Knocking & Pinging
FTE 97up - PSD problems, part ummmm, cant count that high, 7 I think??
FTE 97up - PSD Longevity
FTE 97up - Squeaky bushings (front springs)

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:59:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hunter
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still

Spyder,
I'm sorry to hear this about your truck. You could go to this site
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ag.ohio.gov/agpubs/lemonlaw.htm
I know it's for Ohio, but I thought it will give you some kind off pointers....

Hunter.


> See if there is a lemon law in your state. Ford is a good truck but there
> are always lemons. I've drove my bosses truck around and that does not
> happen.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:33:54 -0400
From: Dean Baruffi
Subject: FTE 97up - F-150 Transmissions

I was on the Baumann engineering website and they had this to say about the
E4OD transmisson:


... E4OD Transmission


The E4OD four speed automatic transmission is used in F and E series
trucks, as well as AOD and AOD-E/4R70W
four speed automatic transmissions. To determine which is used in your
vehicle, follow these guidelines:

If the shifter has a P-R-N-OD-D-1 pattern, the transmission must be an
AOD (applicable to 1980-1993
vehicles).

If a 1989-1993 truck has an Overdrive Cancel Switch and a P-R-N-OD-2-1
shifter pattern, then it is equipped
with an E4OD transmission. With the possible exception of some 4R70W
equipped 1993 E-150 vans with 5.0L
SFI engines (The existence of a 1993 4R70W van is unsubstantiated).

1994 and later vehicles with four speed automatic transmissions will
all have an Overdrive Cancel Switch and a
P-R-N-OD-2-1 shifter pattern, but may have either an E4OD or a 4R70W
transmission. All 4.2L, 4.6L and
some 5.0L engines use the 4R70W transmission, while diesel, 4.9L,
5.4L, 5.8L, 6.8L and 7.5L vehicles always
use E4ODís. You can measure the transmission fluid pan to determine
which transmission you have if
identification information is not available. A 4R70W transmission pan
has an overall length of just under 15
inches, while an E4OD pan is much larger, measuring about 20 inches in
overall length.



Does this mean that all vehicles with the 5.4L V8 uses the E4OD (4R100)?

I'm just wondering what Tranny my 2000 F-150 2WD, SC with 5.4L will have in
it?

Does anyone know the exact ratios in the 4R70W? I know that OD is .666 to 1.

Thanks.



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:44:51 PDT
From: "Scott Matus"
Subject: FTE 97up - Warranty and Synth Oil Service

I have been running synthetic in my engines for 20 years now. I have never
had an engine mechanical breakdown. The key to using synthetic oils will be
using an oil analysis laboratory and have your oil tested regularly.

I personally like to have the oil tested early on in the engines life 500,
5000, 12500 and approximately every 12000 after that. If there is suspicion
on behalf of the dealer, you bring in the oil analysis reports in to show
them. You have scientific evidence from an independant testing lab. If you
are really concerned(I have heard of a few guys doing this), take oil
samples at 2500 mi intervals during the warranty period and just put them on
the shelf. They can be tested anytime in the furture. You can use a lab
that you and your dealer will agree on.

This is the most protective measure that you can perform to cover your self
on these warranty issues. Analysis usually costs between $12 and 25
depending on the depth of the analysis.

Scott.
- ------- Original Message -------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:40:26 -0700
From: Kent Tombs
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - How to maintain my warranty when I don't use my Ford
Dealer for service

Hey nathan
Just out of curiosity what are your feelings regarding synthetic oil,
like how many miles before changing to synthetic etc etc.





_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:56:52 -0600
From: "Peter Taylor"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - How to maintain my warranty when I don't use my Ford Dealer for service

Thanks, Nathan.

I'm going to have the oil changed today, and then my mechanic will do the
other stuff on the service list Wednesday.

Thanks for you help.

Peter

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Union Auto
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 1999 7:00 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - How to maintain my warranty when I don't use my
Ford Dealer for service


You can have anyone do your maintence work, just as long as it gets done.
Don't go extra miles on an oil change just because you have synthetic oil.
Otherwise you'll be fine.


Nathan

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Taylor
To: Ford Truck List (E-mail)
Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 1:34 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - How to maintain my warranty when I don't use my Ford
Dealer for service


> Short Version: I want to start using synthetic oil in my F150 and am
just
> trying to figure out how to maintain the warranty.
> The two possibilities I've come up with are taking it to my dealer's
service
> department and having them just check the other things or taking it to the
> mechanic I use and having them check the truck out.
>
> Does any one have any experience with this? Any Opinions?
>
>
> Long Version:
> - I haven't been to satisfied with the job that my dealer has been doing
> with the oil changes as well as the price.
> I can have my oil changed at Jiffy Lube for $5 less than the dealer, and
> after the last oil change at the dealer, the oil filter hadn't been
> tightened enough and was leaking oil.
>
> - I would like to try synthetic oil in my F150 (Mobil 1 oil and filter).
>
> - I don't have a lot of experience working on cars. I know the basics
(e.g.
> check/add fluids, check tires, etc.) but don't have the time to either
learn
> or actually do the misc servicing. If I can't figure out a way to have
> someone else check out the vehicle, I could get a book and learn.
>
> - This is my first new vehicle, and so I don't have a lot of experience
with
> dealers and service departments. I just want to make sure that if I have
> problems, within the warranty period, that Ford will take care of it.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter Taylor
> F150 LD SC Lariat 50th Edition.
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:11:04 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99 F350 PSD Experience after 3,000 mile trip

Actually the pay towing to the nearest Ford dealer (regardless of miles) or
to the dealer of your choice with you paying anything over 35 miles.

Nathan

- ----- Original Message -----
From: DanBrotzman
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 8:27 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 F350 PSD Experience after 3,000 mile trip


My 99 F350 CC PSD 6SPD 4X4 LB XLT finally made it home a week and a half
after I returned home from vacation. At 4,802 miles a gear broke in the
transfer case (casting flaw) leaving the transfer case in neutral. I was in
2wd, at highway speed towing a 28' travel trailer when it broke. No warning,
no sound, just could not put any power through the transfer case. Found out
Ford will only tow up to 35 miles under warranty, anything over that you're
on your own. They did pay to have the travel trailer towed also which was
nice. Glad it broke in Wisconsin, and not in Wyoming or South Dakota where I
was earlier that day where dealers are alot more than 35 miles appart!


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:06:49 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still

I'd do some calling and complain to Ford (by pass your dealer, their hands
are tied.) IF you start threatening by back a miraculous fix might just
show up.

Nathan

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Veres
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999 8:50 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still


> 1999 F-250 PSD, automatic transmission -
>
> To refresh y'all, I'm the one that took my truck back to the dealer at
> 3,000 miles because it wasn't shifting properly - particularly on the
> last shift while in overdrive - 3-4 seconds to shift with some revving
> and searching around.
>
> The transmission tech took it out for a test drive and it failed,
> requiring the truck to be towed back to the shop where it stayed for
> almost two weeks, while they put a new torque converter and pump
> assembly in it.
>
> Well, that did nothing, the problem still exists - 4 more trips to the
> shop later, I'm no better of - they've messed with the computer, put in
> a new solenoid body, messed with the computer again, etc., etc. It
> still shifts improperly.
>
> The dealership didn't know what to do next so they got on line with the
> Ford Tech Line. After going over everything, Ford sent the dealer a
> message, stating;
>
> "This condition is under investigation and has no adverse affect on
> function or durability. To avoid any repeat repairs and additional
> customer down time, do not attempt any repairs or part replacements for
> this condition. It is recommended that you defer attempts to service
> this concern until service action has been identified." The dealer
> returned the truck to me and apologized, and said to drive the truck,
> including towing, as much as I wanted.
>
> When I asked the service manager how they could possibly say "no adverse
> affect," since it had failed once already, he stated that he thought
> that I probably had another problem in the tranny also, and that the
> work that they'd done on it had fixed it. I pointed out that the bad
> shifting is still the same as it was when I first brought it in, and
> never was solved after everything they did. He was unable to explain
> that.
>
> So here I sit with a truck that I don't trust while towing a boat over
> mountain roads. Almost half the fishing/boating season is over.
>
> Nathan or anyone else, have you ever heard of a problem like this? Is
> there a TSB on it somewhere? How long does it take Ford to come up with
> a "fix?" At this point, one would think they would give me a new
> transmission - but they said No -kindly, of course.
>
> I am basically grounded because I'm afraid to drive the my brand new
> truck any distance at all, let alone towing.
>
> I have written Ford a letter about all this, asking for a new
> transmission. No response yet. Suggestions appreciated.
> Gary Veres, Anchorage, Alaska
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:56:48 -0500
From: John Winkler
Subject: FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions

Hi -

I've just joined the ranks of the Expedition owners. A white 99 XLT
with cloth interior (bucket seats up front) replaces a much-loved 93
Explorer that got old before its time towing over capacity. We went
to the dealership with the intention of replacing the 93 with a V8
Explorer, but the fact that the 99 Explorer, even with a V8 and 3.73
gears, didn't feel any (or enough) different from old blue, and the
fact that my wife fell in love with the sheer size, inside and out,
of the Expedition, combined with the dealership being more motivated
to sell the Expedition than the Explorer dictated our choice.

This Expedition has the 4.6 motor. I would have liked to have gotten
the 5.4, but since the 99 version of this motor puts out more torque
and hp than the 5.0 in the Explorer, I won't complain (and hopefully
not too many people will write to give me buyer's remorse!).

And naturally, being a newbie, I've got questions, and the first has
to do with a problem we had getting it started yesterday:
Our driveway is on an incline, so I have to park either nose-up or
nose-down. Saturday, after running around, we came home, and with
about 1/4 tank of gas, parked it nose-down. When we got going on
Sunday morning, it started fine, but the gas gauge registered dead
empty. I pulled over on level ground, and turned it off and back
on again, and the gauge registered 1/4 tank. At church, we also
ended up parking nose-down, and when we got back in to get going
again, the gauge registered empty AND IT WOULDN'T START, which is
somewhat disconcerting in a car with only 280 miles on the odometer.
Roadside assistance suggested we roll to the bottom of the hill
and try again. I wasn't thrilled about stopping a 4500+ lb vehicle
without power assist, but the alternative was waiting 45 minutes in
Texas heat for a tow truck. Once on level ground, it started up
no problem, although the gauge still showed empty. We went straight
to a gas station, expecting to put in 26 gallons, but only put in
17! After all this pre-amble, the question is what is known about
the Expedition gas tank and sending unit? Are they located in such
a way that we should always park nose-up? We don't have the luxury
of always parking on flat ground.

Other questions:
Although we won't be doing anything soon, since my wife said we
didn't need the 5.4, she's OK'ed any performance modifications
I would like to do (given money to do it!). I browsed some web
sites, and found a K&N assembly that looks good, but says is not
to be used with LEVs, which rules out our Expedition. Is there
a reason for this? EGR? Also, I was looking under the hood (as
any geeky car guy will do with a new vehicle), and it looks like
*any* sort of header would free up some horsepower. After the
cats, the exhaust tube looks pretty beefy, but that exhaust manifold
looks like a big choking point. Has anyone had any experience with
headers? Also (and this would be a way into the future if done),
has anyone put a blower (specifically, something like the "Roots"
blower for the 4.6 SOHC Mustang that's listed in the SVO catalog)
on an Expedition?

Finally, on Saturday (again parked nose-down), when we parked, I
heard, and then looked under the car and saw, A/C condensation dripping
onto the passenger-side cat. Is that OK, or will that hurt the cat?
(Catalytic converter, that is - I'm not really worried about any feline
that crawls around under a hot car :-)

If you've made it this far in the note, thanks for your patience,
and I look forward to any advice and replies.

JLW

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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:42:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Keith Privratsky
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions

I had the SAME problem in my 99 F250 SD, and it turned
out to be a faulty fuel sending unit. I even ran out
of gas with the gauge reading 3/8 of a tank! My
advice is to have it checked.

- --- John Winkler wrote:

> And naturally, being a newbie, I've got questions,
> and the first has
> to do with a problem we had getting it started
> yesterday:
> Our driveway is on an incline, so I have to park
> either nose-up or
> nose-down. Saturday, after running around, we came
> home, and with
> about 1/4 tank of gas, parked it nose-down. When we
> got going on
> Sunday morning, it started fine, but the gas gauge
> registered dead
> empty. I pulled over on level ground, and turned it
> off and back
> on again, and the gauge registered 1/4 tank. At
> church, we also
> ended up parking nose-down, and when we got back in
> to get going
> again, the gauge registered empty AND IT WOULDN'T
> START, which is
> somewhat disconcerting in a car with only 280 miles
> on the odometer.
> Roadside assistance suggested we roll to the bottom
> of the hill
> and try again. I wasn't thrilled about stopping a
> 4500+ lb vehicle
> without power assist, but the alternative was
> waiting 45 minutes in
> Texas heat for a tow truck. Once on level ground,
> it started up
> no problem, although the gauge still showed empty.
> We went straight
> to a gas station, expecting to put in 26 gallons,
> but only put in
> 17! After all this pre-amble, the question is what
> is known about
> the Expedition gas tank and sending unit? Are they
> located in such
> a way that we should always park nose-up? We don't
> have the luxury
> of always parking on flat ground.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:23:03 -0700
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F-150 Transmissions

Baumann's site is a little outdated. For 1999, on a F-150 with a 5.4L
engine, you get the 4R70W unless it has CA emissions, in which case it will
have a 4R100.

RB

> I was on the Baumann engineering website and they had this to say about t=
he
> E4OD transmisson:
>
>
> ... E4OD Transmission
>
>
> The E4OD four speed automatic transmission is used in F and E series
> trucks, as well as AOD and AOD-E/4R70W
> four speed automatic transmissions. To determine which is used in your
> vehicle, follow these guidelines:
>
> If the shifter has a P-R-N-OD-D-1 pattern, the transmission must be =
an
> AOD (applicable to 1980-1993
> vehicles).
>
> If a 1989-1993 truck has an Overdrive Cancel Switch and a P-R-N-OD-2=
- -1
> shifter pattern, then it is equipped
> with an E4OD transmission. With the possible exception of some 4R70W
> equipped 1993 E-150 vans with 5.0L
> SFI engines (The existence of a 1993 4R70W van is unsubstantiated).
>
> 1994 and later vehicles with four speed automatic transmissions will
> all have an Overdrive Cancel Switch and a
> P-R-N-OD-2-1 shifter pattern, but may have either an E4OD or a 4R70W
> transmission. All 4.2L, 4.6L and
> some 5.0L engines use the 4R70W transmission, while diesel, 4.9L,
> 5.4L, 5.8L, 6.8L and 7.5L vehicles always
> use E4OD=EDs. You can measure the transmission fluid pan to determine
> which transmission you have if
> identification information is not available. A 4R70W transmission pa=
n
> has an overall length of just under 15
> inches, while an E4OD pan is much larger, measuring about 20 inches =
in
> overall length.
>
>
>
> Does this mean that all vehicles with the 5.4L V8 uses the E4OD (4R100)?
>
> I'm just wondering what Tranny my 2000 F-150 2WD, SC with 5.4L will have =
in
> it?
>
> Does anyone know the exact ratios in the 4R70W? I know that OD is .666 t=
o 1.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> =3D=3D FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:30:58 EDT
From: BFunk33 aol.com
Subject: Re:FTE 97up - Tranny problems still

This is one of the few situations where I actually recommend that you contact
a good lawyer.
Your truck is not as advertised, and it's not useable as it's marketed.
At the least they (Ford) should replace the tranny, and possibly the truck.
Good luck!
Bill

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:


Subject: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still

1999 F-250 PSD, automatic transmission -

To refresh y'all, I'm the one that took my truck back to the dealer at
3,000 miles because it wasn't shifting properly - particularly on the
last shift while in overdrive - 3-4 seconds to shift with some revving
and searching around.

The transmission tech took it out for a test drive and it failed,
requiring the truck to be towed back to the shop where it stayed for
almost two weeks, while they put a new torque converter and pump
assembly in it.

Well, that did nothing, the problem still exists - 4 more trips to the
shop later, I'm no better of - they've messed with the computer, put in
a new solenoid body, messed with the computer again, etc., etc. It
still shifts improperly.

The dealership didn't know what to do next so they got on line with the
Ford Tech Line. After going over everything, Ford sent the dealer a
message, stating;

"This condition is under investigation and has no adverse affect on
function or durability. To avoid any repeat repairs and additional
customer down time, do not attempt any repairs or part replacements for
this condition. It is recommended that you defer attempts to service
this concern until service action has been identified." The dealer
returned the truck to me and apologized, and said to drive the truck,
including towing, as much as I wanted.

When I asked the service manager how they could possibly say "no adverse
affect," since it had failed once already, he stated that he thought
that I probably had another problem in the tranny also, and that the
work that they'd done on it had fixed it. I pointed out that the bad
shifting is still the same as it was when I first brought it in, and
never was solved after everything they did. He was unable to explain
that.

So here I sit with a truck that I don't trust while towing a boat over
mountain roads. Almost half the fishing/boating season is over.

Nathan or anyone else, have you ever heard of a problem like this? Is
there a TSB on it somewhere? How long does it take Ford to come up with
a "fix?" At this point, one would think they would give me a new
transmission - but they said No -kindly, of course.

I am basically grounded because I'm afraid to drive the my brand new
truck any distance at all, let alone towing.

I have written Ford a letter about all this, asking for a new
transmission. No response yet. Suggestions appreciated.
Gary Veres, Anchorage, Alaska >>
=======================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:56:25 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still

In a message dated 7/18/99 9:51:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
akmomndad webtv.net writes:

hey man that sounds familar mine i think is doing the same next time i have
mine serviced i am going to ask about it.

let me know what you find out!


Ross Smith
9sec93cobra
99 F250SD PSD/sc/4x4




Date: 7/18/99 9:51:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: akmomndad webtv.net (Joseph Veres)
Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to:
HREF="mailto:97up-list ford-trucks.com">97up-list ford-trucks.com

To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com

1999 F-250 PSD, automatic transmission -

To refresh y'all, I'm the one that took my truck back to the dealer at
3,000 miles because it wasn't shifting properly - particularly on the
last shift while in overdrive - 3-4 seconds to shift with some revving
and searching around.

The transmission tech took it out for a test drive and it failed,
requiring the truck to be towed back to the shop where it stayed for
almost two weeks, while they put a new torque converter and pump
assembly in it.

Well, that did nothing, the problem still exists - 4 more trips to the
shop later, I'm no better of - they've messed with the computer, put in
a new solenoid body, messed with the computer again, etc., etc. It
still shifts improperly.

The dealership didn't know what to do next so they got on line with the
Ford Tech Line. After going over everything, Ford sent the dealer a
message, stating;

"This condition is under investigation and has no adverse affect on
function or durability. To avoid any repeat repairs and additional
customer down time, do not attempt any repairs or part replacements for
this condition. It is recommended that you defer attempts to service
this concern until service action has been identified." The dealer
returned the truck to me and apologized, and said to drive the truck,
including towing, as much as I wanted.

When I asked the service manager how they could possibly say "no adverse
affect," since it had failed once already, he stated that he thought
that I probably had another problem in the tranny also, and that the
work that they'd done on it had fixed it. I pointed out that the bad
shifting is still the same as it was when I first brought it in, and
never was solved after everything they did. He was unable to explain
that.

So here I sit with a truck that I don't trust while towing a boat over
mountain roads. Almost half the fishing/boating season is over.

Nathan or anyone else, have you ever heard of a problem like this? Is
there a TSB on it somewhere? How long does it take Ford to come up with
a "fix?" At this point, one would think they would give me a new
transmission - but they said No -kindly, of course.

I am basically grounded because I'm afraid to drive the my brand new
truck any distance at all, let alone towing.

I have written Ford a letter about all this, asking for a new
transmission. No response yet. Suggestions appreciated.
Gary Veres, Anchorage, Alaska
>>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:04:13 -0500
From: "sqezbox"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions

The expedition And navaigator both share the same fuel tank the tank is
located on the left side of the vehicle (drivers side ) the fuel pump is
located in the rear portion of the fuel tank if it sat on an incline for
an extenede period of time with fuel level below 1/4 then it could
possibly become out of the area of fuel. The a/c drippin on the cat will
not bother the cat as long as its not dripping on the O2 sensor

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com] On Behalf Of John Winkler
Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 1:57 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions

Hi -

I've just joined the ranks of the Expedition owners. A white 99 XLT
with cloth interior (bucket seats up front) replaces a much-loved 93
Explorer that got old before its time towing over capacity. We went
to the dealership with the intention of replacing the 93 with a V8
Explorer, but the fact that the 99 Explorer, even with a V8 and 3.73
gears, didn't feel any (or enough) different from old blue, and the
fact that my wife fell in love with the sheer size, inside and out,
of the Expedition, combined with the dealership being more motivated
to sell the Expedition than the Explorer dictated our choice.

This Expedition has the 4.6 motor. I would have liked to have gotten
the 5.4, but since the 99 version of this motor puts out more torque
and hp than the 5.0 in the Explorer, I won't complain (and hopefully
not too many people will write to give me buyer's remorse!).

And naturally, being a newbie, I've got questions, and the first has
to do with a problem we had getting it started yesterday:
Our driveway is on an incline, so I have to park either nose-up or
nose-down. Saturday, after running around, we came home, and with
about 1/4 tank of gas, parked it nose-down. When we got going on
Sunday morning, it started fine, but the gas gauge registered dead
empty. I pulled over on level ground, and turned it off and back
on again, and the gauge registered 1/4 tank. At church, we also
ended up parking nose-down, and when we got back in to get going
again, the gauge registered empty AND IT WOULDN'T START, which is
somewhat disconcerting in a car with only 280 miles on the odometer.
Roadside assistance suggested we roll to the bottom of the hill
and try again. I wasn't thrilled about stopping a 4500+ lb vehicle
without power assist, but the alternative was waiting 45 minutes in
Texas heat for a tow truck. Once on level ground, it started up
no problem, although the gauge still showed empty. We went straight
to a gas station, expecting to put in 26 gallons, but only put in
17! After all this pre-amble, the question is what is known about
the Expedition gas tank and sending unit? Are they located in such
a way that we should always park nose-up? We don't have the luxury
of always parking on flat ground.

Other questions:
Although we won't be doing anything soon, since my wife said we
didn't need the 5.4, she's OK'ed any performance modifications
I would like to do (given money to do it!). I browsed some web
sites, and found a K&N assembly that looks good, but says is not
to be used with LEVs, which rules out our Expedition. Is there
a reason for this? EGR? Also, I was looking under the hood (as
any geeky car guy will do with a new vehicle), and it looks like
*any* sort of header would free up some horsepower. After the
cats, the exhaust tube looks pretty beefy, but that exhaust manifold
looks like a big choking point. Has anyone had any experience with
headers? Also (and this would be a way into the future if done),
has anyone put a blower (specifically, something like the "Roots"
blower for the 4.6 SOHC Mustang that's listed in the SVO catalog)
on an Expedition?

Finally, on Saturday (again parked nose-down), when we parked, I
heard, and then looked under the car and saw, A/C condensation dripping
onto the passenger-side cat. Is that OK, or will that hurt the cat?
(Catalytic converter, that is - I'm not really worried about any feline
that crawls around under a hot car :-)

If you've made it this far in the note, thanks for your patience,
and I look forward to any advice and replies.

JLW

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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 20:30:54 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Newbie intro and questions

Good God.

You would think that Henry and his decendants would have learned something by
now. There are a few of us who can remember stories of the Model T having to
go up hills in reverse because of fuel starvation. Last Model t was when?
72/73 years ago.

Except for the fact that T's had no fuel pump, souds like the same problem.
Are you telling me that on a lond steep dowgrade with a partial fuel load you
may lose engine power?

John G

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:10:36 -0700
From: "Steve J. Hodson"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still

Joseph: The 'negative feedback' approach might include say 4-5 times a week
of parking the truck just inside of 35 miles from the dealer, catching a
ride home from a friend and letting the dealer worry about the tow bill.
2-3 weeks of this and they might re-consider a new transmission. Tom and
Ray of Car Talk fame might (half jokingly) suggest finishing off the
transmission with some 10mph D to R shifts so they would have to replace it!
In a similar situation about 10 years ago I parked a problematic car at my
local Ford dealers lot, handed the keys to the service manager and told him
the car was his now and I would see him in court. I caught a ride to work
and by the time I got there I had a voice mail saying they would call me as
soon as the car was repaired. I don't know if this will work for you but if
are really willing to sue in small claims and can look them in the eye when
you say it give it a try. Nothing to lose!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Veres
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Sunday, July 18, 1999 6:50 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Tranny problems still


1999 F-250 PSD, automatic transmission -

To refresh y'all, I'm the one that took my truck back to the dealer at
3,000 miles because it wasn't shifting properly - particularly on the
last shift while in overdrive - 3-4 seconds to shift with some revving
and searching around.

The transmission tech took it out for a test drive and it failed,
requiring the truck to be towed back to the shop where it stayed for
almost two weeks, while they put a new torque converter and pump
assembly in it.

Well, that did nothing, the problem still exists - 4 more trips to the
shop later, I'm no better of - they've messed with the computer, put in
a new solenoid body, messed with the computer again, etc., etc. It
still shifts improperly.

The dealership didn't know what to do next so they got on line with the
Ford Tech Line. After going over everything, Ford sent the dealer a
message, stating;

"This condition is under investigation and has no adverse affect on
function or durability. To avoid any repeat repairs and additional
customer down time, do not attempt any repairs or part replacements for
this condition. It is recommended that you defer attempts to service
this concern until service action has been identified." The dealer
returned the truck to me and apologized, and said to drive the truck,
including towing, as much as I wanted.

When I asked the service manager how they could possibly say "no adverse
affect," since it had failed once already, he stated that he thought
that I probably had another problem in the tranny also, and that the
work that they'd done on it had fixed it. I pointed out that the bad
shifting is still the same as it was when I first brought it in, and
never was solved after everything they did. He was unable to explain
that.

So here I sit with a truck that I don't trust while towing a boat over
mountain roads. Almost half the fishing/boating season is over.

Nathan or anyone else, have you ever heard of a problem like this? Is
there a TSB on it somewhere? How long does it take Ford to come up with
a "fix?" At this point, one would think they would give me a new
transmission - but they said No -kindly, of course.

I am basically grounded because I'm afraid to drive the my brand new
truck any distance at all, let alone towing.

I have written Ford a letter about all this, asking for a new
transmission. No response yet. Suggestions appreciated.
Gary Veres, Anchorage, Alaska


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:45:24 -0400
From: Andy
Subject: FTE 97up - Knocking & Pinging

Help...

I have a 98' F-150 5.4 with 42,000 miles. About a month ago I started
noticing a knocking noise on acceleration. I use the recommended 87 octane
fuel. I changed brands to see if it was bad gas, and it stayed the same.
It is now gotten much worse. I called my dealership today, and they said
that it is normal. Said something about carbon deposits make the engine do
that. As long as the check engine light does not come on, I'm o.k. To
help, they suggested that I either should use higher octane and ignore it,
or pay to have the injectors cleaned. It supposed to help remove those
deposits. I know that a higher octane might help, but if the engine is
knocking, something is not right. I'm supposed to have the work done on
Weds. so any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Andy

"Sortie City"
Personal Aircraft Photography
Dobbins ARB- Marietta, Ga.

www.mindspring.com/~samand42/

From F-18's to the F-22 and many in between.

Email: samand42 mindspring.com

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:28:52 EDT
From: MadPoodle aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - PSD problems, part ummmm, cant count that high, 7 I think??

Ahh, the saga continues. When last we heard from our intrepid
F350 driver, the dealer replaced the electric fuel pump, (#5) and the new one
(#6) proceeded to die in his shop. Then, they miracuosly produced 2, yup, 2
samples of "contaminated" fuel from "our" trucks tank. Well, funny thing, I
have the bottles on my desk, and they are 2, yup, 2 different color fuels.
Imagine that!

So, anyway, we got the truck back last week. Drove it till today,
when poof, the fuel pump fuse blew again. replaced it, blew again. Wanna bet
the fuel pump (#7) died again? Oh well, we towed it at our expense to a truck
only dealer this time, keep ya posted.........


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