97up-list-digest Friday, July 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 145



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
FTE 97up - Re: Greetings
FTE 97up - On Net Info Of Dealer Costs & The Accuracy Thereof
FTE 97up - Product vs. service
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Greetings
Re: FTE 97up - Product vs. service
Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
FTE 97up - delivery date - start to finish
FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?
FTE 97up - net prices, employee prices
FTE 97up - Detecting Damage to your PSD

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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 10:34:13 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

Actualy Paul wrote, "They said to tighted the nuts to 100 ft/lbs and then an
additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn."

WiNk wrote:

> Having spent about three years on torque procedures I can confidently say
> that I believe that Ford is way out in the outer limits when they specify a
> 1/8 to 1/4 inch increase in the nut travel to achieve a torque condition. I
> am certain that my colleagues would have a heart attack on that score too.

>

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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:27:10 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

Thanks for the info. I noticed the error after the message hit the list. The
"turn" criteria makes the problem a greater problem. 360/4 = 90 degrees.

A torque wrench positioned at twelve o'clock would end up at 3 o'clock with a 1/4
turn added to the torque value. IMHO that is a lot of extra torque resulting in
the addtional force exceeding the studs modulus of elasticity. Or otherwise, a
stretched stud that will loosen with temperature changes because it would no
longer have the elasticity component that allows the stud to expand and contract
due to thermal changes, without becoming a loose fastener.

Depending on conditions it is possible to have a 100 lb torque value whithout
having the nut resting on any surface at all. This condition would be acquired
when galling of the threads took place. For the unwary, they would recognize the
torque without realizing that the fastener didn't make contact with any surface
whatsover to exerct a compression force against a contacting surface.

I have some great "reservations" about the TURN vs the inch additional increment
recommended to be applied to the nut. An eight "inch" additional nut travel could
make some sense, maybe a quarter inch would be aceptabe too, however a 1/4 turn
surely has to be excessive torque in my book.







Chad Royse wrote:

> Actualy Paul wrote, "They said to tighted the nuts to 100 ft/lbs and then an
> additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn."
>
> WiNk wrote:
>
> > Having spent about three years on torque procedures I can confidently say
> > that I believe that Ford is way out in the outer limits when they specify a
> > 1/8 to 1/4 inch increase in the nut travel to achieve a torque condition. I
> > am certain that my colleagues would have a heart attack on that score too.
>
> >
>
> == FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:39:02 EDT
From: Jakejmi aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Greetings

Greetings
Just signed on to the list, so I thought I would introduce myself.
My name is Jake and I own a '98 NASCAR Edition F-150 that replaced the '90 XLT
I wore out. By the way, the suspension on the new truck is so stiff, if I hit
a big bump, the idiot lights come on and the cruise kicks off .
Hope to speak with you all soon. Thank you.
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:14:18 EDT
From: MRoadarDOJ aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - On Net Info Of Dealer Costs & The Accuracy Thereof

My experience when ordering my truck (F-350 Crew, V-10, Lariat) was that the
net prices were almost dead-on accurate. One dealer gave me a price that, so
I was told, was the same price that Ford employees were getting and that there
was no way I could do better elsewhere on a new F-350. I checked around and
40 minutes up the road was a dealer who gave me a price that was a little
over $1,700 better AND he freely gave me the costs that he was paying for the
truck. And they matched the net info almost perfectly. Care to guess who I'm
doing business with?
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:48:00 -0700
From: "Jose A. Fernandez"
Subject: FTE 97up - Product vs. service

Which dealer do you go to for service?

I ask because my plan is to buy product from the dealer with the best
price and buy services from the service department with the best
performance. Those two organizations are not necessarily found
together.

So I am curious about you choose and manage your relationship(s) with
your dealer and your service department.

-----Original Message-----
From: MRoadarDOJ aol.com [SMTP:MRoadarDOJ aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 10:14 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - On Net Info Of Dealer Costs & The Accuracy Thereof

My experience when ordering my truck (F-350 Crew, V-10, Lariat) was
that the net prices were almost dead-on accurate. One dealer gave
me a price that, so I was told, was the same price that Ford
employees were getting and that there was no way I could do better
elsewhere on a new F-350. I checked around and 40 minutes up the
road was a dealer who gave me a price that was a little over $1,700
better AND he freely gave me the costs that he was paying for the
truck. And they matched the net info almost perfectly. Care to
guess who I'm doing business with?

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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:00:12 EDT
From: DAS1544 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Greetings

thanks my mane is deenis and i work ina for dealership that my parents own if
you need to know anything just let me know

dennis
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:06:10 EDT
From: DAS1544 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Product vs. service

well i have bought all the trucks i have own from the dealership i work for of
course they are my parents but i have never seenthem give a bad deal to anyone
and one member from this page has come to us for serive and he lives a great
distance for us we pride our selves on good sales and service and we are the
only no fine print dealer in eastern north carolina.


Central ford is the place i work and you can find some info on www.ford.com


Dennis
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:08:32 -0400
From: "Ann Mitchell"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

OK, OK, so Ford says to tighten the lug nut to 100 ft-lbs then another 1/4
turn or so. Why, would anyone who had the capability to tighten a lug nut
to 100 ft-lbs then tighten them another 1/4 turn? Why not tighten them to
say 115 ft-lbs, or 120 ft-lbs, what's this 1/4 turn factor? Are the Ford
engineers idiots? Or maybe it's the PR folks missing a few cylinders. I'd
say there's something wrong with this picture. I'm an engineer and I don't
think that the public should be fooling around with a 1/4 turn. I've been
setting my click torque wrench at 105 ft-lbs and no problems so far.

Steve
1998 F150, 4.6L
16" Aluminum wheels
no 1/4 turn for me

- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul J. Naas
To: 97 Ford Enthusiust
Date: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 7:09 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall


>I received a letter from Ford on 7-6-98 and they enclosed a sketch
>showing lug nut tightening sequence (the standard cross tightening
>method). They said to tighted the nuts to 100 ft/lbs and then an
>additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn. As stated the dealerships will provide this
>service for you if you desire. Personally, I don't like to over tighten
>any lug nuts. It stretches and/or gauls the threads thus ruining the
>wheel studs and perhaps warping the front rotors. I've been checking my
>lug nuts (at 100 ft/lbs) on a 4-6 week basis and have always found them
>tight. Also as stated in previous messages, Ford will send another
>info letter when the nuts are available. They estimate the 3rd qaurter
>of 1998 (June, July or August).
>Keep em tight...
>
>== FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:50:39 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

OK! OK! I spent 60 years to becum an enginerr and now I are one. :-)

Ann,

If you read my last posts on torque you will learn that I fully agree with you
on the torque issue. In addition to the additional turns we have to accept the
fact that the mechanics are not able to apply torque correctly either, because
they are NOT pulling the wrenches correctly. You are in my camp when you ask
are the FORD engineers "idiots" . IF what I have read in the list is "fact"
then I would guess that at least "thee" and "me" probably would agree that the
Ford engineers are "idiots" I don't have the fastener specifications manuals
at my disposal, but if I was really inclined to challenge the Ford people I
would be checking their directions against established fastener standards.
What about the Feds who are involved with this issue, are they in agreement
with the procedure?

I would like to see the Ford spec but this list is not capable of handling
attachments, to bad for us because if it could we at least could speak about
the same data from the same page, so to speak.





Ann Mitchell wrote:

> OK, OK, so Ford says to tighten the lug nut to 100 ft-lbs then another 1/4
> turn or so. Why, would anyone who had the capability to tighten a lug nut
> to 100 ft-lbs then tighten them another 1/4 turn? Why not tighten them to
> say 115 ft-lbs, or 120 ft-lbs, what's this 1/4 turn factor? Are the Ford
> engineers idiots? Or maybe it's the PR folks missing a few cylinders. I'd
> say there's something wrong with this picture. I'm an engineer and I don't
> think that the public should be fooling around with a 1/4 turn. I've been
> setting my click torque wrench at 105 ft-lbs and no problems so far.
>
> Steve
> 1998 F150, 4.6L
> 16" Aluminum wheels
> no 1/4 turn for me
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul J. Naas
> To: 97 Ford Enthusiust
> Date: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 7:09 PM
> Subject: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
>
> >I received a letter from Ford on 7-6-98 and they enclosed a sketch
> >showing lug nut tightening sequence (the standard cross tightening
> >method). They said to tighted the nuts to 100 ft/lbs and then an
> >additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn. As stated the dealerships will provide this
> >service for you if you desire. Personally, I don't like to over tighten
> >any lug nuts. It stretches and/or gauls the threads thus ruining the
> >wheel studs and perhaps warping the front rotors. I've been checking my
> >lug nuts (at 100 ft/lbs) on a 4-6 week basis and have always found them
> >tight. Also as stated in previous messages, Ford will send another
> >info letter when the nuts are available. They estimate the 3rd qaurter
> >of 1998 (June, July or August).
> >Keep em tight...
> >
> >== FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
>
> == FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:50:40 EDT
From: DAS1544 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

i will say this much if im not mistake at there a recall on the rangers and
the full size f-150's i think there is
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:51:54 -0500
From: "Roy E. Springer"
Subject: FTE 97up - delivery date - start to finish

99 F250SD
Ordered 5/4/98
Arrived railhead 7/5/98
Arrived dealer 7/8/98
Delivered 7/9/98

Sorry to hear the dealer saying that dates are stretching out quite a bit
now.

Thanks to ? who recommended tracking by rail.
If yours is coming via Union Pacific the URL I bookmarked is:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://my.uprr.com/pub/pet

You need to know the car # from the dealer printout.

Roy


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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:12:02 -0500
From: "Roy E. Springer"
Subject: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

Anyone had a Rhino Lining installed?

I'm interested in your experiences, good or bad.
Especially interested in how long it has been in place.
I'm concerned about how the polyurethane would hold up to UV exposure and
hot climate for 10 years.

Thanks in advance, you can reply by email if you like.

Roy






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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:28:21 -0500
From: "Roy E. Springer"
Subject: FTE 97up - net prices, employee prices

Invoice/MSRP prices from Edmunds and other net sources on 99 SD's were very
accurate. Dealer printout will have a "price level" on it, which can change
during the time a vehicle being ordered/delivered, but if you strike a deal
for a certain amount relative to invoice you will know whether the dealer is
being straight with you.

If you get a copy of the actual invoice, you will see that there is an
amount for approximate financing cost to dealer, and for the dealer
holdback. In my case, if you subtract the holdback and the finance estimate
from the total invoice, you get an amount that is very close to the A plan
price (also printed on the invoice).

Roy



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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:05:59 -0500
From: "Daniel Bruno"
Subject: FTE 97up - Detecting Damage to your PSD

I just read the note from the owner of the oil burning F250SD with the
diesel. If you were burning 2 gallons in 600 miles, you were most
definitely operating that new engine under less-than-ideal break-in
conditions. Although your warranty on that motor is 100,000 miles, you may
have problems down the road. Personally, I have my oil sampled every
change. I use Rotella T (SHELL) and change the oil myself at every 4000
miles. I have my oil sampled at the local Caterpillar dealer in St. Louis,
Fabick Tractor, for only a few bucks per pop. I give them a two or three
ounce sample in a little plastic kit that they provide with the motor make,
year, mileage, mileage on the oil change and the like and they test the oil
for metal and contaminants. I then get a print-out of the oil test with
common metal content, including a list of anything such as metal or fuel
content that is out of the tolerance for that motor. Additionally, each new
test includes all of my previous tests as a comparison, allowing me to see
trends in particulate content. Although I have never had to use it, I would
bet that this would be the best evidence anyone could have should a problem
develop or appear to be developing down the road. It is VERY important that
the samples are not fouled as you collect them and that they are taken from
the oil after it has begun to drain for several seconds. This is referred
to as Scheduled Oil Sampling.

As a side note, maybe Ford would replace the motor as a precaution. I had a
'96 F150 with a 5.0L that developed a small oil leak at the filter at 8000
miles. After only 5 minutes on a rack in the service bay, they told me to
bring the truck back in 1 week so that they could install the new motor. I
was shocked at how forward they were! They replaced the ENTIRE motor and
everything attached-compressor, alternator, etc. That was through Mike....


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