97up-list-digest Friday, June 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 123



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - Re: service manual
FTE 97up - Vibrations and Driveline Probs
FTE 97up - Rebates????
FTE 97up - Super Duty Vacuum Brakes
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Vacuum Brakes
FTE 97up - Slide in campers on 99s
FTE 97up - Re: FTE 97up-97up questions
FTE 97up - Performance
Re: FTE 97up - Performance
Re: FTE 97up - Slide in campers on 99s
Re: FTE 97up - Rebates????
Re: FTE 97up - "99 Model Changes
FTE 97up - Slide in Campers
Re: FTE 97up - Slide in Campers
Re: FTE 97up - Performance
Re: FTE 97up - Slide in campers on 99s
FTE 97up - New Owner
Re: FTE 97up - New Owner
Re: FTE 97up - Rebates????
Re: FTE 97up - Re: FTE 97up-97up questions

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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:49:20 GMT
From: "Russell A. Hunter"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: service manual

>Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 14:52:11 -0700
>From: Russell Trahan
>Subject: FTE 97up - Re: service manual
>
>>
>> They have a web page at:
>>
>> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.helminc.com/
>>
>
>Thanks for the help on the service manual question. I e-mailed
>Helm and they responded today..... $180.00 for the service manual!
>I am not sure if that is a complete set of all the service info or not.
>
>I did not realize they were that expensive.

I think they increased when the 97's came out. My father bought a set for
his 91 F150 and they weren't that much.

As far as completeness of the set, maybe someone else can answer that. Ford
used to offer the service manual for a vehicle and you could also buy an
emissions control manual which covered all models for a year at about $100.
It was about a foot thick and had the diagnostic procedures for the EEC
systems in it. With the price they get for the manual now, I wonder if
they've combined the two manuals. Does anyone know?


Russell A. Hunter
rahunter traveller.com


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:27:09 +0000
From: 1
Subject: FTE 97up - Vibrations and Driveline Probs

I too am having vibration and driveline problems. I have 5000 kms on the
truck and am on my second manual tranny. Tranny number 1 vibrated and
rattled in 3rd gear through the stick and 5th gear on the highway
through the go pedal. A Ford engineer from the Ontario truck plant drove
the truck and told the dealer to replace the tranny.

Tranny number 2 is exactly the same, which would make me believe that
something else in the drivetrain is causing the prob, but Ford and the
dealer insist its the tranny. Mazda has 14 units with the same problem
that they are currently investigating, Dealer told me two give them 2
months to find a solution or Ford will replace the truck, Ill let you
know what happens.

Simon Robson
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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:47:52 +0200
From: "Parnell, John"
Subject: FTE 97up - Rebates????

To Nathan Bernard.
Last night I bought a 1998 Explorer and they applied the $500 owner
loyalty rebate. But by paying cash should I not also receive the $1250
rebate in lieu of the 0.9% financing? Thank you for your reply.
Regards, John
john.parnell solvay.com

This means that you can get the $500 owner loyalty rebate or the 0.9%
APR or $1250 rebate.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.

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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:59:09 -0700
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Vacuum Brakes

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Do all 99 SD gas that have vacuum brake booster (450 & up have hydraulic)
have an excessively "hard" brake pedal or is mine defective?
Is it my mistake, or did Ford brochure avail in Feb advertise all SD
had "hydro-vac" brakes?
Is there any industry (or Federal) spec as to how much pedal force
should be reqd?
Lee Haefele






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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:39:14 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Vacuum Brakes

I test drove a 250 and a 350 and didn't think the pedal felt at all hard. Mine ( a
250) is do in next week, I'll let you know what I think.

Chad

Lee Haefele wrote:

> Subject: Re: 97up-list-digest V1 #121
> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:19:39 -0700
> From: Lee Haefele
> Organization: Haefele TV
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> References:
>
> Do all 99 SD gas that have vacuum brake booster (450 & up have hydraulic)
> have an excessively "hard" brake pedal or is mine defective?
> Is it my mistake, or did Ford brochure avail in Feb advertise all SD
> had "hydro-vac" brakes?
> Is there any industry (or Federal) spec as to how much pedal force
> should be reqd?
> Lee Haefele
>
> == FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:07:27 -0700
From: Joe Zuk
Subject: FTE 97up - Slide in campers on 99s

I have been looking into this because I want to get a camper when my SD250 shows up,
heres what I found. Maybe one of the Ford salesmen around here can correct me if I say
anything wrong.

- - After talking to the local Lance camper dealer the only problem that they have seen so
far has been that the length from the cab roof to the bed floor is about 1in longer now.
He said that they have been building platforms to go under the camper to get around this
problem.
- - The Lance dealer also said that if you are going to use j-hooks (the mounting brakes
that mount onto the truck bed) you need to add a reinforcement bar on the front of the
bed.
- - As for Ford saying you can't put a slide in on an SD350, my dealer says this is lawyer
thing. Ford wants you to buy the camper package and this gives you a slide-in
certification.

One thing that I would like to know is what will this lowering kit do to the truck
overall. Does this just lower the bed? (so that the height from the bed floor to the cab
roof get longer). Or does this just lower the hole truck? Or does it just lower the rear
end of the truck?

Joe

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:09:05 EDT
From: ROBBCWZ aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: FTE 97up-97up questions

I'm like Mike Fairleigh in being surprised about the posters complaints on
driveline issues. I just traded in my well used 97 with the V-6+auto and I
found that driveline to be trouble and vibration free, with none of the
harshness that seems to be expressed by others. The current F150 has the 5.4L
V-8 and, as before, I am finding that to be vibration free also.

Hopefully, for Ford's sake, Mike and I are NOT in the minority here!

Robb
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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 08:33:34 -0700
From: "Jim Spillman"
Subject: FTE 97up - Performance

On two prior occasions, I have asked owners of '99 SD truck with the V-10
Triton to come forth with some experience with fuel consumption. C'mon,
share your findings when driving the truck empty and also when towing.
Specifics about what you are towing would be helpful.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:52:21 -0400
From: Bill
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Performance

I was talking to a guy yesterday with a V-10 and 3.73 rear end F-250, he
pulls a 4 horse trailer and when loaded he's getting 8 and 9 mpg, running
without the trailer on open road about 12 mpg. Reports pulling power is
good, but thinks with the same load in mountains the 4. something rear would
be a better choice. He hates the outside mirrors as every bump in the road
they move. That's all I have to offer.

Jim Spillman wrote:

> On two prior occasions, I have asked owners of '99 SD truck with the V-10
> Triton to come forth with some experience with fuel consumption.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:07:07 -0700
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Slide in campers on 99s

I've been looking at putting a lance 3100 on a 99 350 SC SRW 4x4. If you are putting
the camper on a 4x4, the additional item you did not mention was the possible need
for extensions on the jacks. Back in march or April, I heard that Atwood, or one
of the camper jack manufactures was working on a retrofit. If you are using a 2x4,
this should be a non-issue. Your 3 other Lance/99 thruck issues look consistent with
what I've heard.

Ford also has a "camper package guide" (I don't remember the correct title), which is
not always easy to get. This allows you to get the exact weights of each option for
your type of truck to determine the exact payload capabilities of the truck. And the
correct center of gravity point for the truck camper. As an
example, PSD with automatic adds about 500+ lbs to the front axle over the v10.
This guide is *different* than the trailer towing guide.

Air bags, and good shocks may also need to be added to the shopping list.

As for the lowering kit, I hear it lowers the back end of the truck. The bed floor/cab height
distance remains the same. The intent is lower the rear ride height/ bed rail height, to get
additional clearance for 5th wheel and
similar trailers that can't be raised with axle adjustments/shackles, etc...

Needs to be a minimum clearance of at least 5 inches between the bed rails and bottom
section of the 5th wheel trailer that rides above the truck bed. This number apperars to
vary among trailer manufactures.

Hope this helps.

- -john

Joe Zuk wrote:

> I have been looking into this because I want to get a camper when my SD250 shows up,
> heres what I found. Maybe one of the Ford salesmen around here can correct me if I say
> anything wrong.
>
> - After talking to the local Lance camper dealer the only problem that they have seen so
> far has been that the length from the cab roof to the bed floor is about 1in longer now.
> He said that they have been building platforms to go under the camper to get around this
> problem.
> - The Lance dealer also said that if you are going to use j-hooks (the mounting brakes
> that mount onto the truck bed) you need to add a reinforcement bar on the front of the
> bed.
> - As for Ford saying you can't put a slide in on an SD350, my dealer says this is lawyer
> thing. Ford wants you to buy the camper package and this gives you a slide-in
> certification.
>
> One thing that I would like to know is what will this lowering kit do to the truck
> overall. Does this just lower the bed? (so that the height from the bed floor to the cab
> roof get longer). Or does this just lower the hole truck? Or does it just lower the rear
> end of the truck?
>
> Joe
>
> == FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:30:04 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rebates????

The $1250 is on Ranger not Explorer there is no alternative to the APR
rates on Explorer. There is $500 Owner Loyalty rebate on 2 Door Explorers
and $750 on 4 Door Explorers, Mountaineers, and Expeditions.

Nathan
- -----Original Message-----
From: Parnell, John
To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Thursday, June 18, 1998 8:06 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - Rebates????


>To Nathan Bernard.
>Last night I bought a 1998 Explorer and they applied the $500 owner
>loyalty rebate. But by paying cash should I not also receive the $1250
>rebate in lieu of the 0.9% financing? Thank you for your reply.
>Regards, John
>john.parnell solvay.com
>
> This means that you can get the $500 owner loyalty rebate or the 0.9%
>APR or $1250 rebate.
>
>Nathan Bernard
>Union Auto, Inc.
>
>== FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:32:21 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - "99 Model Changes

Unless you order the Camper Package you get the sheet of paper that says
"not recommended for Slide in campers."

Nathan Bernard

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dirtracr7 aol.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, June 17, 1998 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - "99 Model Changes


>In the paper work I received with my 99 Crew Dually they suggest not to put
a
>camper in the bed.I can't imagine why.You may want to check on this.
> Mark K.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:41:14 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - Slide in Campers

I was reading the new issue of Frontline (Fords magazine for dealership
personal) and found a letter in the question and answer section.

Q: I need to know if a slide in camper form a '95-97 model F-250 will fit
the new '99 Super Duty F-250?

A: According to the Ford Body Builder Advisor Service, one of the 1999 Super
Duty F-Series objectives was to design the pickup to accommodate the
majority of slide-in campers, pickup box toppers, and other units (such as
tool chests).
Market research determined that larger taller cabs were desired by the
commercial buyers. Since the 1999 Super Duty cabs are now taller, you may
need to employ a shim beneath the slide in camper to clear the cab. Due to
the vast variety of aftermarket equipment, results may vary.

This makes me believe that most campers will fit, albeit probably like the
toppers we've switched (too narrow in the front and a little too wide in the
back).

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Union, IA 50258



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:06:45 -0700
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Slide in Campers

If you have Adobe acrobat, check out http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.meadowlandford.com/pdf/index.pdf
You can get the exact dimensions of the short and long box.
look for pages 38-39 to get the box dimensions.

Lots of information, but may be limited to the superduty F250/350.

- -john


Union Auto wrote:

> I was reading the new issue of Frontline (Fords magazine for dealership
> personal) and found a letter in the question and answer section.
>
> Q: I need to know if a slide in camper form a '95-97 model F-250 will fit
> the new '99 Super Duty F-250?
>
> A: According to the Ford Body Builder Advisor Service, one of the 1999 Super
> Duty F-Series objectives was to design the pickup to accommodate the
> majority of slide-in campers, pickup box toppers, and other units (such as
> tool chests).
> Market research determined that larger taller cabs were desired by the
> commercial buyers. Since the 1999 Super Duty cabs are now taller, you may
> need to employ a shim beneath the slide in camper to clear the cab. Due to
> the vast variety of aftermarket equipment, results may vary.
>
> This makes me believe that most campers will fit, albeit probably like the
> toppers we've switched (too narrow in the front and a little too wide in the
> back).
>
> Nathan Bernard
> Union Auto, Inc.
> Union, IA 50258
>
> == FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:08:41 -0700
From: jdb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Performance

I have a F-350 Supercab 4X4 V-10 carrying a 10 1/2 ft Bigfoot camper and
I've averaged 10 mpg with mostly highway driving (but hilly not flat).
Without the camper but highway I get about 12 mpg but in stop and go
traffic it gets about 8 mpg. This is about 1 month of experience (2000
miles).







Jim Spillman wrote:
>
> On two prior occasions, I have asked owners of '99 SD truck with the V-10
> Triton to come forth with some experience with fuel consumption. C'mon,
> share your findings when driving the truck empty and also when towing.
> Specifics about what you are towing would be helpful.
>
> == FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:13:49 -0700
From: jdb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Slide in campers on 99s

My F-350 4X4 Supercab with camper pkg carries a 10 1/2 bigfoot with no
problem. We did have to build a 2 1/2 in platform and use 2 bed mats
(above and below the platform). Did not install air bgs and thus far
don't plan to. Also, I have no problem with the jacks reaching the
ground.





johny wrote:
>
> I've been looking at putting a lance 3100 on a 99 350 SC SRW 4x4. If you are putting
> the camper on a 4x4, the additional item you did not mention was the possible need
> for extensions on the jacks. Back in march or April, I heard that Atwood, or one
> of the camper jack manufactures was working on a retrofit. If you are using a 2x4,
> this should be a non-issue. Your 3 other Lance/99 thruck issues look consistent with
> what I've heard.
>
> Ford also has a "camper package guide" (I don't remember the correct title), which is
> not always easy to get. This allows you to get the exact weights of each option for
> your type of truck to determine the exact payload capabilities of the truck. And the
> correct center of gravity point for the truck camper. As an
> example, PSD with automatic adds about 500+ lbs to the front axle over the v10.
> This guide is *different* than the trailer towing guide.
>
> Air bags, and good shocks may also need to be added to the shopping list.
>
> As for the lowering kit, I hear it lowers the back end of the truck. The bed floor/cab height
> distance remains the same. The intent is lower the rear ride height/ bed rail height, to get
> additional clearance for 5th wheel and
> similar trailers that can't be raised with axle adjustments/shackles, etc...
>
> Needs to be a minimum clearance of at least 5 inches between the bed rails and bottom
> section of the 5th wheel trailer that rides above the truck bed. This number apperars to
> vary among trailer manufactures.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -john
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:43:48 -0400
From: "Bruce Stewart"
Subject: FTE 97up - New Owner

I remember when we used to build Cooper "S" racing engines (12:1
compression) with STP so they would have oil pressure when they were fired
up! Saying that Mobil1 is like water is what we say when comparing our
Canadian beer to yours ...

I'm now up to 2000kms (1200 miles) and the fuel mileage seems to be getting
better as the engine starts to run in. I tried a 4.6l before settling on
the 5.4l and there was quite a difference in acceleration - especially with
all the extra hardware associated with the 4WD - so I imagine that the 4.6l
with a trailer could be short of performance. While I don't use 4WD too
much in the summer I really appreciate it in the winter as we typically get
100+ inches of snow.

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:49:54 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: New Owner
Years ago, VW recommended a compount of molybdenum for the coating of
newly assembled engines, especially in the cylinders. This was to reduce
heat. I think they wanted a light oil too, probably because it mixed with
the molybdenum. If I remember correctly the same compound had to be used on
the main crank bearings too. The metals may have been the governing
criteria for the use of the compound. The engines that they make today may
be a different story so I wouldn't think that I would use anything other
than what a good engine expert recommended.
Mobil one has a filter on the market too, and I wonder if it isn't
designed for their oil. Hmmmmm! if I recall correctly Mobil One is
like water not oil.


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:55:14 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - New Owner

Bruce,
Motor Honey was a WHIZ too :-)


Bruce Stewart wrote:

> I remember when we used to build Cooper "S" racing engines (12:1
> compression) with STP so they would have oil pressure when they were fired
> up! Saying that Mobil1 is like water is what we say when comparing our
> Canadian beer to yours ...
>
> I'm now up to 2000kms (1200 miles) and the fuel mileage seems to be getting
> better as the engine starts to run in. I tried a 4.6l before settling on
> the 5.4l and there was quite a difference in acceleration - especially with
> all the extra hardware associated with the 4WD - so I imagine that the 4.6l
> with a trailer could be short of performance. While I don't use 4WD too
> much in the summer I really appreciate it in the winter as we typically get
> 100+ inches of snow.
>
> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:49:54 -0700
> From: WiNk
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: New Owner
> Years ago, VW recommended a compount of molybdenum for the coating of
> newly assembled engines, especially in the cylinders. This was to reduce
> heat. I think they wanted a light oil too, probably because it mixed with
> the molybdenum. If I remember correctly the same compound had to be used on
> the main crank bearings too. The metals may have been the governing
> criteria for the use of the compound. The engines that they make today may
> be a different story so I wouldn't think that I would use anything other
> than what a good engine expert recommended.
> Mobil one has a filter on the market too, and I wonder if it isn't
> designed for their oil. Hmmmmm! if I recall correctly Mobil One is
> like water not oil.
>
> == FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 01:17:20 EDT
From: Logerman ....


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