97up-list-digest Friday, June 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 109



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 97up - Quality
Re: FTE 97up - RECALL
Re: FTE 97up - Quality
FTE 97up - Leaking SuperCab
Re: FTE 97up - RECALL
Re: FTE 97up - RECALL
Re: FTE 97up - Quality
FTE 97up - ADMIN: Trim posts
Re: FTE 97up - RECALL
Re: FTE 97up - RECALL

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:35:11 -0600
From: Dave Armbruster
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Quality

Not to turn this into a business discussion...

Dr. Deming's theory had some merit, but they were not the end all. be
all. Deming was actually pretty bad at the people to people social
skills, and a PhD of economics and management (not engineering or
science). Although, he even recognized that humans are not perfect, but
that is the basis for his management theory. From what I have learned
of his TQM theory, he basically said to put achievable and valid goals
in place for the manufacture (and generally all processes, industrial,
service, etc.) of then you can increase quality.

I read once that he said (and I'm paraphrasing) just to have a
repeatable process will only guarantee consistent junk, not necessarily
quality products. What we now have is related to the Deming Method, but
it has been hybridized for the USA. In a TQM class once, Ford Motor Co
was used as a model of how the Deming method can be used to turn around
companies (profit wise to investors). There is more than one PhD behind
the ivy covered walls that hold Ford as a great example of what TQM can
do.

So, would there be a consensus of all the subscribers that Ford trucks
are far and above better "quality" than they were, say 20 years ago? I
don't know that there would be. I would say that they are pretty much
all about the same level of quality now, though.

But, what it all boils down to in TQM is responsibility. You take
ownership of the product you are producing, thus the responsibility for
it's unreasonable failure, then you have some stake in it's lifespan.
All things mechanical will fail, but if the uncertainty can be
minimized, that is the goal of TQM.

my $.02,
Dave
Denver, CO


> -----Original Message-----
> From:WiNk [SMTP:invesys sprintmail.com]
> Sent:Friday, June 05, 1998 2:40 AM
> To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:Re: FTE 97up - Quality
>
> Shane,
>
> You have the gist of the TQM methodology but are not considering that
> all of
> what you said is all incorporated in TQM if the process is used
> appropiately. You need to read Dr. Deming's books on TQM.
>
> We don't make cars out of solid gold for a lot of reasons besides
> gold's
> value do we?
>
> Yes! we all know that things wear and break. How many failures do you
> predict for the shuttle launches? Then again, what about the
> satellites.
> All of the latter are points to indicate that something is made to
> some
> criteria that will capture profit.. How that something is presented to
> the
> public for use becomes the main focal point of the discussions
> occuring in
> this list.
> Cars are manufactured for profit, therefore they have to appeal to the
> users
> both in longevity and functionality. If either of the two latter
> conditions
> are not met then there will be NO sales, no cars, and no profit.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> shane o. conger wrote:
>
> > I work in manufacturing for a large off-road mining truck company.
> In
> > my 10 years there I have learned one thing. If it is made by man it
> > will break at some point in time. It is only common sense to know
> that
> > the better material you use and the tighter tolerances you hold for
> a
> > better fit and the more tests you run for failure and endurance and
> the
> > more engineering changes you make to change the things you find then
> the
> > better product you will produce. The problem with this is that if
> you
> > do all these things to make the best product you can the a. no one
> can
> > afford your product and b. if it is to good then it will last so
> long
> > that you will go out of business before anyone needs another one.
> Also
> > if you use vendor parts there is nothing to say that the vendor
> followed
> > your engineering specs. and you may not find out until you have
> 10,000
> > products that have already been sold. So you have no choice but to
> > recall them.
> > I always get a loaner when I take my vehicle in for service or
> any
> > reason. I never drive a service dept. loaner either. I go directly
> to
> > the salesman who I buy from and he either gives me one off the lot
> or
> > the one he is driving. I have driven 2 Mustang GT's and an Explorer
> and
> > a Probe GT and a Taurus SHO. I have bought 5 vehicles from him
> since
> > 1993 and have sent him 4 other customers. My parents drove 210
> miles
> > from south central Iowa to buy from him because he was $1000 cheaper
> > then anyone in Iowa. Just call Pat Moss at Mike Murphy Ford in
> Morton,
> > Il.
> >
> > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> ==============================================
> > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> >
> ======================================================================
> =
>
>
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> ==============================================
> Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> ======================================================================
> =
= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:37:27 EDT
From: ROBBCWZ aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - RECALL

Lets face it, recalls and minor failures are a fact of life. It is more
important to me how I am treated by Ford and by the dealer. I don't expect a
loaner - very impractical considering the numbers involved - but I do want a
timely notice of the recall, and preferably from Ford or the dealer before I
read about it in the paper. I don't expect to have to chase down having the
recall done, I expect the dealer to be proactive in reaching me.

It all comes down to the right level of customer service, and making me feel
like I want to return next time I want another vehicle.

Robb C
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:40:12 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quality

Hey Alex Trotman, if you're listening... Fire your marketing guys. We've got the
answers to what people 'really' want, right here!

WiNk wrote:
>
> Shane,
>
> You have the gist of the TQM methodology but are not considering that all of
> what you said is all incorporated in TQM if the process is used
> appropiately. You need to read Dr. Deming's books on TQM.
>
> We don't make cars out of solid gold for a lot of reasons besides gold's
> value do we?
>
> Yes! we all know that things wear and break. How many failures do you
> predict for the shuttle launches? Then again, what about the satellites.
> All of the latter are points to indicate that something is made to some
> criteria that will capture profit.. How that something is presented to the
> public for use becomes the main focal point of the discussions occuring in
> this list.
> Cars are manufactured for profit, therefore they have to appeal to the users
> both in longevity and functionality. If either of the two latter conditions
> are not met then there will be NO sales, no cars, and no profit.
= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
"unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
=======================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:43:07 -0600
From: Dave Armbruster
Subject: FTE 97up - Leaking SuperCab

Has anyone else had the rear of a Ranger SuperCab leak? I found a
puddle of water in the rear of mine this morning, maybe a couple of cups
and the rear 4 or so inches of the headliner soaked. I first thought it
was the window (sliding), but the way the headliner is wet looks more
like the third brake light housing. I have had mine apart twice since I
bought the truck, once to replace the bulb and second to remove the bulb
when I put the topper on. This is the first time it's leaked. Since I
was on my way to work (and it's snowing, yea snowing, here anyway) I
have not been able to investigate any further. When I have looked at
it, my housing doesn't seem to have a particularly great seal or gasket.
I have thought about making a rubber gasket or something to seal it,
just wondering if I may have been passed over in assembly with the
proper gasket or maybe someone has found a fix, etc.

Thanks,
Dave
Denver, CO
'97 Ranger S/C XLT
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:43:16 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - RECALL

Too bad it's not built into this list server. It would probably filter out useless
BS.

WiNk wrote:
>
> Mark,
> Afix blame in the proper place with the proper facts. TQM works and works well.
>
> Mark Lee wrote:
>
> > The NEW VW Beetle (every one of them) has already been recalled for
> > wiring problems which can cause fires. So far only 4 have burned up,
> > but given how few have been made so far, it is probably a reasonably
> > high percentage. So much for TQM....
> >
> > WiNk wrote:
> > >
> > > TSK! TSK! in the past it would almost be impossible to take a Volkswagon back to the garage
> > > for a repair. This is also true of some of the Japanese cars. The facts of the matter are
> > > that GOOD quality control means NO RECALLS. IF you have recalls the facts (stats) are that
> > > the QC is weak. Results of poor QC is REWORK, or attempts by the company to pass the cost off
> > > to the consumer.
> > > REWORK cost three times more to do than doing it right the first time.
> > >
> > > This could go on and on. I guess my points should be understood by now.
> > >
> > > Total Quality Management (TQM) is the key to NO RECALLS and a 30 to 40% increase in the bottom
> > > line, if you will!
> > >
> > > Chad Royse wrote:
> > >
> > > > WiNk, I think you're a little too wound up about this. Profits are more than just
> > > > sales. That's why I mentioned the bottom line. If Ford guaranteed everyone a
> > > > replacement vehicle for every recall, it would drive prices sky high. You might as
> > > > well go out and buy a high-end yuppiffied Mercedes SUV.
> > > >
> > > > Chad
> > > >
> > > > WiNk wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Nothing is FREE is right but everything that we pay for should be provided. If enough
> > > > > complaints are logged against a company then the board of directors will get on the
> > > > > CEO;s butt in a heavy way. OR the company will go out of business. That is the way the
> > > > > capitalist system works. No sales ! No profit! and no board of directors. Competition
> > > > > is supposed to keep the price right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chad Royse wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Remember, nothing is free. Sometimes sh!t happens and if Ford is willing to take
> > > > > > responsibillity for it, that's great. But if every one starts complaining about
> > > > > > wanting a replacement vehicle even for recalls, then bottom lines are going to start
> > > > > > suffering. If they suffer too much, we are the ones who'll pay.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well guys there's one good dealer in Ann Arbor, Michigan, sells the Lincoln and
> > > > > > > will pick your Lincoln up within 50 miles and leave you a new Lincoln to drive
> > > > > > > with a full tank of gas, when warranty repairs have been made to your car they
> > > > > > > return the car and pick up the loaner. You have to love a dealer like that!
> > > > > > > These recalls are getting out of hand, its only done to keep the government off
> > > > > > > there backs. Next time you buy a $34K truck demand a free loaner be wrote into
> > > > > > > the sale agreement, if the dealer wouldn't do it try another dealer (sometimes it
> > > > > > > works). Take anything back to K-Mart and exchange it no questions ask, auto
> > > > > > > dealers sure should be able to spring for a car of some kind to drive. Several in
> > > > > > > the lower Michigan will, but you have to let it be known you expect it and will
> > > > > > > not settle for less.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ken Payne wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At 02:59 AM 6/2/98 EDT, you wrote:
> > > > > > > > >Why is it that no dealer will give me a truck to use for the day when my
> > > > > > > > truck
> > > > > > > > >is in for the recall?My feelings are,if you build a truck,sell a truck(FOR
> > > > > > > > >$34000.00)then you should provide a truck for the guy who has to lose a truck
> > > > > > > > >for a day because you screwed up building it.
> > > > > > > > > Mark
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is pretty standard with all auto companies. I don't
> > > > > > > > see how a dealer could possibly offer a loaner to hundred
> > > > > > > > (thousands?) of people coming in with recall notices.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ken Payne
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> > > > > > > > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > > > > > > > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > > > > > > > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > > > > > > > =======================================================================
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> > > > > > > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > > > > > > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > > > > > > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > > > > > > =======================================================================
> > > > > >
> > > > > > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> > > > > > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > > > > > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > > > > > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > > > > > =======================================================================
> > > > >
> > > > > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> > > > > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > > > > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > > > > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > > > > =======================================================================
> > > > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> > > > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > > > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > > > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > > > =======================================================================
> > >
> > > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> > > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > > =======================================================================
> > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > =======================================================================
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:05:36 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - RECALL

At 10:43 AM 6/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Too bad it's not built into this list server. It would probably filter
out useless
>BS.

Trim your posts!

Ken



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 08:07:22 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quality

Dave,

I have taught TQM, lived TQM, pioneered TQM methods, and criticized TQM.
Dr. Juran, Phil Crosby, Ishikawa are other types of quality gurus that I
have studied all had specific focal points for each of their processes.

The bottom line for Ford and their "Quality is job one" means to me;
whining transmissions, whining and clunking rear ends, whining alternators,
vibrations at apx 65 mph, leaing rear window, wheel nuts that get loose, and
a tail pipe that oxidizes the rear wheel rim, transmissions that jump in and
out of gear. As to the interior convenience items I do really like the Ford
above all other vehicles such as the Dodge, GM, Chevy, Mazda, Toyota etc.

The Ford dealers that have tried to resolve my problems were good and bad to
excellent. The bottom line of their efforts is that they couldn't, wouldn't
properly repair the problems that my vehicle is plagued with, therefore the
issue is in the hands of an attorney as of yesterday.

As far as the Ford "Distpute Resolution Board" (DSB) is concerned, my
opinion is that it "STINKS". Binding arbitration means to Ford that they
won't adhere to the DSB's board's decision in three instances.

Not having the absolute facts on Ford's TQM policies at the moment, I cannot
say that Ford did adhere to quality improvement process, because if they had
fully complied they would have received the Malcom Baldridge Award for
Excellence.

Maybe some of what Ford says it does can be used against them because they
are not actually doing what they say they do in their advertisements.



Dave Armbruster wrote:

> Not to turn this into a business discussion...
>
> Dr. Deming's theory had some merit, but they were not the end all. be
> all. Deming was actually pretty bad at the people to people social
> skills, and a PhD of economics and management (not engineering or
> science). Although, he even recognized that humans are not perfect, but
> that is the basis for his management theory. From what I have learned
> of his TQM theory, he basically said to put achievable and valid goals
> in place for the manufacture (and generally all processes, industrial,
> service, etc.) of then you can increase quality.
>
> I read once that he said (and I'm paraphrasing) just to have a
> repeatable process will only guarantee consistent junk, not necessarily
> quality products. What we now have is related to the Deming Method, but
> it has been hybridized for the USA. In a TQM class once, Ford Motor Co
> was used as a model of how the Deming method can be used to turn around
> companies (profit wise to investors). There is more than one PhD behind
> the ivy covered walls that hold Ford as a great example of what TQM can
> do.
>
> So, would there be a consensus of all the subscribers that Ford trucks
> are far and above better "quality" than they were, say 20 years ago? I
> don't know that there would be. I would say that they are pretty much
> all about the same level of quality now, though.
>
> But, what it all boils down to in TQM is responsibility. You take
> ownership of the product you are producing, thus the responsibility for
> it's unreasonable failure, then you have some stake in it's lifespan.
> All things mechanical will fail, but if the uncertainty can be
> minimized, that is the goal of TQM.
>
> my $.02,
> Dave
> Denver, CO
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WiNk [SMTP:invesys sprintmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 05, 1998 2:40 AM
> > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quality
> >
> > Shane,
> >
> > You have the gist of the TQM methodology but are not considering that
> > all of
> > what you said is all incorporated in TQM if the process is used
> > appropiately. You need to read Dr. Deming's books on TQM.
> >
> > We don't make cars out of solid gold for a lot of reasons besides
> > gold's
> > value do we?
> >
> > Yes! we all know that things wear and break. How many failures do you
> > predict for the shuttle launches? Then again, what about the
> > satellites.
> > All of the latter are points to indicate that something is made to
> > some
> > criteria that will capture profit.. How that something is presented to
> > the
> > public for use becomes the main focal point of the discussions
> > occuring in
> > this list.
> > Cars are manufactured for profit, therefore they have to appeal to the
> > users
> > both in longevity and functionality. If either of the two latter
> > conditions
> > are not met then there will be NO sales, no cars, and no profit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > shane o. conger wrote:
> >
> > > I work in manufacturing for a large off-road mining truck company.
> > In
> > > my 10 years there I have learned one thing. If it is made by man it
> > > will break at some point in time. It is only common sense to know
> > that
> > > the better material you use and the tighter tolerances you hold for
> > a
> > > better fit and the more tests you run for failure and endurance and
> > the
> > > more engineering changes you make to change the things you find then
> > the
> > > better product you will produce. The problem with this is that if
> > you
> > > do all these things to make the best product you can the a. no one
> > can
> > > afford your product and b. if it is to good then it will last so
> > long
> > > that you will go out of business before anyone needs another one.
> > Also
> > > if you use vendor parts there is nothing to say that the vendor
> > followed
> > > your engineering specs. and you may not find out until you have
> > 10,000
> > > products that have already been sold. So you have no choice but to
> > > recall them.
> > > I always get a loaner when I take my vehicle in for service or
> > any
> > > reason. I never drive a service dept. loaner either. I go directly
> > to
> > > the salesman who I buy from and he either gives me one off the lot
> > or
> > > the one he is driving. I have driven 2 Mustang GT's and an Explorer
> > and
> > > a Probe GT and a Taurus SHO. I have bought 5 vehicles from him
> > since
> > > 1993 and have sent him 4 other customers. My parents drove 210
> > miles
> > > from south central Iowa to buy from him because he was $1000 cheaper
> > > then anyone in Iowa. Just call Pat Moss at Mike Murphy Ford in
> > Morton,
> > > Il.
> > >
> > > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> > ==============================================
> > > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > >
> > ======================================================================
> > =
> >
> >
> >
> > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts
> > ==============================================
> > Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > ======================================================================
> > =
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> =======================================================================



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:16:29 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: Trim posts

When replying to long messages, please trim down the
original post. This reduces the email load on the
server, reduces the archive space needed and is
generally considered a nice thing to do.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:33:54 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - RECALL

My bad, sorry guys.

Ken Payne wrote:
>

> Trim your posts!
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts
== FTE: Unsubscribe and posting info www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:15:07 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - RECALL

CHad,
I don't disagree with you but I really do think that you should use the DELETE key vice your jaw.

As to TQM I have had my say and if there are anymore comments I would suggest the use of "off list"
email message base.


Chad Royse wrote:

> Too bad it's not built into this list server. It would probably filter out useless
> BS.
>
> WiNk wrote:
> >
> > Mark,
> > Afix blame in the proper place with the proper facts. TQM works and works well.
> >
> > Mark Lee wrote:
> >
> > > The NEW VW Beetle (every one of them) has already been recalled for
> > > wiring problems which can cause fires. So far only 4 have burned up,
> > > but given how few have been made so far, it is probably a reasonably
> > > high percentage. So much for TQM....
> > >
> > > WiNk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > TSK! TSK! in the past it would almost be impossible to take a Volkswagon back to the garage
> > > > for a repair. This is also true of some of the Japanese cars. The facts of the matter are
> > > > that GOOD quality control means NO RECALLS. IF you have recalls the facts (stats) are that
> > > > the QC is weak. Results of poor QC is REWORK, or attempts by the company to pass the cost off
> > > > to the consumer.
> > > > REWORK cost three times more to do than doing it right the first time.
> > > >
> > > > This could go on and on. I guess my points should be understood by now.
> > > >
> > > > Total Quality Management (TQM) is the key to NO RECALLS and a 30 to 40% increase in the bottom
> > > > line, if you will!
> > > >
> > > > Chad Royse wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > WiNk, I think you're a little too wound up about this. Profits are more than just
> > > > > sales. That's why I mentioned the bottom line. If Ford guaranteed everyone a
> > > > > replacement vehicle for every recall, it would drive prices sky high. You might as
> > > > > well go out and buy a high-end yuppiffied Mercedes SUV.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chad
> > > > >
> > > > > WiNk wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nothing is FREE is right but everything that we pay for should be provided. If enough
> > > > > > complaints are logged against a company then the board of directors will get on the
> > > > > > CEO;s butt in a heavy way. OR the company will go out of business. That is the way the
> > > > > > capitalist system works. No sales ! No profit! and no board of directors. Competition
> > > > > > is supposed to keep the price right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chad Royse wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Remember, nothing is free. Sometimes sh!t happens and if Ford is willing to take
> > > > > > > responsibillity for it, that's great. But if every one starts complaining about
> > > > > > > wanting a replacement vehicle even for recalls, then bottom lines are going to start
> > > > > > > suffering. If they suffer too much, we are the ones who'll pay.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well guys there's one good dealer in Ann Arbor, Michigan, sells the Lincoln and
> > > > > > > > will pick your Lincoln up within 50 miles and leave you a new Lincoln to drive
> > > > > > > > with a full tank of gas, when warranty repairs have been made to your car they
> > > > > > > > return the car and pick up the loaner. You have to love a dealer like that!
> > > > > > > > These recalls are getting out of hand, its only done to keep the government off
> > > > > > > > there backs. Next time you buy a $34K truck demand a free loaner be wrote into
> > > > > > > > the sale agreement, if the dealer wouldn't do it try another dealer (sometimes it
> > > > > > > > works). Take anything back to K-Mart and exchange it no questions ask, auto
> > > > > > > > dealers sure should be able to spring for a car of some kind to drive. Several in
> > > > > > > > the lower Michigan will, but you have to let it be known you expect it and will
> > > > > > > > not settle for less.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ken Payne wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > At 02:59 AM 6/2/98 EDT, you wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >Why is it that no dealer will give me a truck to use for the day when my
> > > > > > > > > truck
> > > > > > > > > >is in for the recall?My feelings are,if you build a truck,sell a truck(FOR
> > > > > > > > > >$34000.00)then you should provide a truck for the guy who has to lose a truck
> > > > > > > > > >for a day because you screwed up building it.
> > > > > > > > > > Mark
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is pretty standard with all auto companies. I don't
> > > > > > > > > see how a dealer could possibly offer a loaner to hundred
> > > > > > > > > (thousands?) of people coming in with recall notices.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ken Payne
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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