97up-list-digest Friday, June 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 108



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - Engine Knock on 97 Expedtion
FTE 97up - Triton badge
FTE 97up - Quality
Re: FTE 97up - Quality

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Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 19:47:04 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Engine Knock on 97 Expedtion

Mark,
Supposedly there is an octane jumper around the battery somewhere. The jumper is
supposed to alter the timing somehow. Maybe it is worth a look or two to see if
your dilema will go away.
BTW! I know it isn't my business but after reading your message I would believe
that knowing the needs of the lemon laws to make a case would be in order here.
If you don't have documentation then the case gets tougher to win. I'm not a
lawyer but I can remember a similar situation with Cadillac engines that failed.
The consumer ate the cost for a new engine. AND! a Ford financial manager had his
engine go when it just got out of the new warranty period and Ford wouldn't cover
the engine repair cost. The manager finally got it fixed under the ESP program
that he had to buy. I don't have to fill in the gaps between the new warranty
failure and the issuance of the ESP.

Caution is the word with your situation.



Mark Lee wrote:

> Thanks for the info Morgan. FYI I now have managed to reduce the noise
> on startup by switching to Mobil 1 synthetic oil. Whereas it used to
> knock for 3-5 minutes it now only knocks for 5-10 SECONDS! This has
> saved my sanity and hopefully some engine parts. Please keep me
> posted. Time for a letter to Ford. My warrantee will be up in a few
> months and I am not going to let this problem get sloughed off.
>
> Is it logical that the Mobil 1 made such a difference given the
> hypothesis regarding engine slap? The knock was really pronounced and
> it went away (almost entirely) the very day I changed the oil. It has
> been over 10 days now and it has not come back (other than muffled knock
> for first 5-10 seconds on cold startup.)
>
> Morgan wrote:
> >
> > On a previous post from Mark Lee, he was experiencing what Ford calls
> > "Cold Start Knock". It's primarly a 5.4L problem, but is/has occurred with
> > the 4.6L. The 5.4L is built only at the Windsor plant and they also produce
> > the 4.6L. I suspect a problem of quality control, due to the huge demand for
> > the 5.4L in the F-250LD's, Expeditions, and Navigators. My 97 F-150 5.4L
> > started knocking at 1600 miles and continues(it's getting worse) at 16000
> > miles. I have been in contact with several 5.4L and one 4.6L owner with the
> > same problem. Two of these people had engines replaced and the knock
> > returned(one was a new engine from Windsor and the other a rebuilt from a
> > Ford vendor). The Windsor plant continues to say they are "working" on the
> > problem and not to worry---I'm worried! They do tell me I will get a new
> > engine when the "problem" is fixed.
> > Basically this is piston slap inside the cylinder caused by the short
> > skirt on the Triton piston and excessive clearance. It happens upon
> > start-up when the engine is "cold"(hasn't been run for several hours). After
> > 3 to 5 minutes at idle, the piston(s) warm up and expand to "fill" the hole.
> > The knocking sound is a very distinct rattle somewhat like a deisel engine.
> > Mine seems to be coming from 2 or 3 clyinders. I'd like to hear from others
> > on this situation.
> > Dennis Morgan 406-265-2711 (office)
> > Havre, MT 406-265-2358 (home)
> >
> > = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> > "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> > =======================================================================
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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> =======================================================================



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Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 21:50:26 -0500
From: "shane o. conger"
Subject: FTE 97up - Triton badge

I have a 1998 F-150 XLT 2wd Supercab with the 4.6l V-8 and it has the
Triton badges on it. Can't remember which side though.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 22:12:31 -0500
From: "shane o. conger"
Subject: FTE 97up - Quality

I work in manufacturing for a large off-road mining truck company. In
my 10 years there I have learned one thing. If it is made by man it
will break at some point in time. It is only common sense to know that
the better material you use and the tighter tolerances you hold for a
better fit and the more tests you run for failure and endurance and the
more engineering changes you make to change the things you find then the
better product you will produce. The problem with this is that if you
do all these things to make the best product you can the a. no one can
afford your product and b. if it is to good then it will last so long
that you will go out of business before anyone needs another one. Also
if you use vendor parts there is nothing to say that the vendor followed
your engineering specs. and you may not find out until you have 10,000
products that have already been sold. So you have no choice but to
recall them.
I always get a loaner when I take my vehicle in for service or any
reason. I never drive a service dept. loaner either. I go directly to
the salesman who I buy from and he either gives me one off the lot or
the one he is driving. I have driven 2 Mustang GT's and an Explorer and
a Probe GT and a Taurus SHO. I have bought 5 vehicles from him since
1993 and have sent him 4 other customers. My parents drove 210 miles
from south central Iowa to buy from him because he was $1000 cheaper
then anyone in Iowa. Just call Pat Moss at Mike Murphy Ford in Morton,
Il.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 01:39:34 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quality

Shane,

You have the gist of the TQM methodology but are not considering that all of
what you said is all incorporated in TQM if the process is used
appropiately. You need to read Dr. Deming's books on TQM.

We don't make cars out of solid gold for a lot of reasons besides gold's
value do we?

Yes! we all know that things wear and break. How many failures do you
predict for the shuttle launches? Then again, what about the satellites.
All of the latter are points to indicate that something is made to some
criteria that will capture profit.. How that something is presented to the
public for use becomes the main focal point of the discussions occuring in
this list.
Cars are manufactured for profit, therefore they have to appeal to the users
both in longevity and functionality. If either of the two latter conditions
are not met then there will be NO sales, no cars, and no profit.









shane o. conger wrote:

> I work in manufacturing for a large off-road mining truck company. In
> my 10 years there I have learned one thing. If it is made by man it
> will break at some point in time. It is only common sense to know that
> the better material you use and the tighter tolerances you hold for a
> better fit and the more tests you run for failure and endurance and the
> more engineering changes you make to change the things you find then the
> better product you will produce. The problem with this is that if you
> do all these things to make the best product you can the a. no one can
> afford your product and b. if it is to good then it will last so long
> that you will go out of business before anyone needs another one. Also
> if you use vendor parts there is nothing to say that the vendor followed
> your engineering specs. and you may not find out until you have 10,000
> products that have already been sold. So you have no choice but to
> recall them.
> I always get a loaner when I take my vehicle in for service or any
> reason. I never drive a service dept. loaner either. I go directly to
> the salesman who I buy from and he either gives me one off the lot or
> the one he is driving. I have driven 2 Mustang GT's and an Explorer and
> a Probe GT and a Taurus SHO. I have bought 5 vehicles from him since
> 1993 and have sent him 4 other customers. My parents drove 210 miles
> from south central Iowa to buy from him because he was $1000 cheaper
> then anyone in Iowa. Just call Pat Moss at Mike Murphy Ford in Morton,
> Il.
>
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
> "unsubscribe 97up-list" in the message body.
> =======================================================================



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Send unsubscribe requests to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with
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