97up-list-digest Friday, April 16 1999 Volume 02 : Number 096



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - RECALL ACTION
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
FTE 97up - !999 SD door panel removal ??
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
FTE 97up - EXHAUST CHROME TIPS
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
FTE 97up - Recall 97 Up
RE: FTE 97up - End of the Thread
Re: FTE 97up - Door gaskets
Re: FTE 97up - Recall 97 Up
FTE 97up - ordered intermed. pipe for 99PSD
Re: FTE 97up - End of the Thread
FTE 97up - Cruise Recall
RE: FTE 97up - Door gaskets
FTE 97up - Re: Cruise Recall
FTE 97up - Customer Returns Car - Didn't Like it!
FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.
Subject: FTE 97up - Exhaust chrome tips for PSD.
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.
FTE 97up - second battery in my f-150?
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
Re: FTE 97up - second battery in my f-150?
Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP? Rear wheel HP thread
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Cruise Recall
Re: FTE 97up - Door gaskets
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Cruise Recall
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP? Rear wheel HP thread
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.
Re: FTE 97up - !999 SD door panel removal ??
Re: FTE 97up - Customer Returns Car - Didn't Like it!
Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?
Re: FTE 97up - Customer Returns Car - Didn't Like it!

=======================================================================

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:44:05 -0400
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - RECALL ACTION

"Douglas R. Floyd" wrote:
>
> >
> > Jean,
> > We are in total agreement on that good sir.
> >
> > >Do not use the cruise
> > control of an affected vehicle it could be dangerous.
> >
> > Let's all be safe...
> >
> > C.K.
> >
>
> My issue with this is the fact that the cable was cut without notice. Yes,
> do not drive with it, but the owner should have been notified about it being
> disabled. A car is not a piece of demoware -- mechanics do not hold the right
> to cut things in people's vehicles without permission, or at least giving
> notice.
>
> --
> Douglas R. Floyd | Mirror Mirror on the wall
> | True hope lies beyond the coast
> Disclaimer: | You're a damned kind can't you see
> I speak for myself, not IBM. | That tomorrow bears insanity -- Blind Guardian
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

C.K.

No argument there. Do not touch my vehicle unless
instructed to do so.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:15:40 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

I looked at 2 1999 Power Strokes, 1 on the lot built 3/2/99 had a sticker
that read 250 BHP 2700 RPM, the sticker was white with red, another early
99 (built 4/98) had a black sticer that read 250 BHP 2700 RPM. So they
have the same power, but for some reason Ford is only claiming 235HP were
Navistar rates them at 250 HP. Makes you wonder if Ford isn't saving that
15 HP incase the competition were to catch up.

Nathan Bernard

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Abraham
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 4:04 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?


> Just got wind on the Ford Diesel site that the 99.5 PSD got
> a boost in horse power, from 235 to 250! Can this be true?
> The engine sticker is now said to state 250 HP.
>
> I'll have to check mine when I get home.
>
> Charles.
>
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:18:44 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

what is the 'b' for in that acronym; BHP, or is that just a standard rating
with the 'b' that is usually dropped when referring to horsepower on a
vehicle?

Just curious,
C.K.

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:19:52 -0500
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

I was wondering too, maybe the "B" is for base or gross, and not net.

Charles.

"C. K. Hartline" wrote:

> what is the 'b' for in that acronym; BHP, or is that just a standard rating
> with the 'b' that is usually dropped when referring to horsepower on a
> vehicle?
>
> Just curious,
> C.K.
>
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:32:12 -0400
From: Bill
Subject: FTE 97up - !999 SD door panel removal ??

I would like to remove the inside door panels from both
front and rear doors on my 1999 F-250 supercab to add some
sound deadner behind the panels. I think there held in
place with clips and will come out without much problem, but
are there any hidden screws that also hold the panel on.
Sure would hate to break the plastic. Thanks, Bill
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:37:09 -0500
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

Found this on the Ford Diesel page,

"Brake horsepower is a term that is used because the torque of the engine
is measured by putting a brake on the flywheel with the engine on a test stand.
Visualize a large brake with an arm attached. The end of the arm is placed on
a scale and the brake is applied at each rpm level to measure how much torque
the engine is putting out. Horsepower is then calculated by multiplying the
torque
by the rpms and dividing by 33,000.

One horsepower is the ability to raise 33,000 lb one foot in one minute. Brake
horsepower is usually obtained by running the engine on the test stand with no
accessories (fan, alternator, power steering pump, etc.) attached to it. That
gives
the maximum horsepower it can put out. The brake horsepower quoted is the
maximum (peak of the horsepower curve). Horsepower values quoted without
the term "brake" can mean just about anything. We are usually most interested
in horsepower delivered at the wheels, as measured on a dynomometer. And
that is quite a bit less than the brake horsepower. Unless the horsepower quoted
is defined, one needs to know the conditions under which that horsepower is
attained to give the term any meaning. HP is usually brake horsepower, BHP,
(because that is the maximum the engine can attain)."


>
> "C. K. Hartline" wrote:
>
> > what is the 'b' for in that acronym; BHP, or is that just a standard rating
> > with the 'b' that is usually dropped when referring to horsepower on a
> > vehicle?
> >
> > Just curious,
> > C.K.
> >
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 99 12:35:07 -0400
From: tony.zuber sbaonline.gov
Subject: FTE 97up - EXHAUST CHROME TIPS

Hi Chris
Regarding getting exhaust extension, here is what I did for my F450 Cab
and Chassis after the flat bed was installed. I took a scrap piece of 4"
stainless steel tubing and cut a section out one side to resize for the
exhaust pipe on truck. Then drilled 3 5/16" holes and welded 1/4" nuts
and used stainless bolts for set screws. Then cut the other end on 45
degree. Of course if you have to have a shop do this, it could get
expensive. Couldn't find anything that would fit right that I liked, so
made my own. I have made my own bed, mudflaps and tube steps. This way
we have what we want.
seeya

>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Chris Foye
>Subject: FTE 97up - Exhaust chrome tips for PSD.

>Hey Ford Listers,

>Does anybody have any resources as to who has exhaust
>tips, the chrome ones, for the big PSD exhaust? I'm
>just looking at getting something that slips over the
>existing exhaust so, that I don't have to cut it.

>Thanks,

>Chris

Tony and Janice Zuber
Florence Oregon
tony.zuber sbaonline.gov
t.zuber winfinity.com



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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Gaudenti
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

> I was wondering too, maybe the "B" is for base or gross, and not net.
>
> Charles.
>
> "C. K. Hartline" wrote:
>
> > what is the 'b' for in that acronym; BHP, or is that just a standard rating
> > with the 'b' that is usually dropped when referring to horsepower on a
> > vehicle?
> >
> > Just curious,
> > C.K.

I think it stands for "brake". Maybe way back when they used a brake to
load the engine to measure HP?

Hey, my guess was pretty close! I just now searched for "brake
horsepower" and found:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://tqjunior.advanced.org/4116/Science/horse.htm

Danny

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:10:46 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

Well we know for sure that base and gross are never what you get at the end
of that paycheck, so if it stands for base or gross horsepower we know we
aren't actually getting that power to the rear wheels...which is what
counts...going back to the 'spinning' analogy we saw earlier...funny how
these manufacturers play with words to get the
results they want, to bring in the masses to buy their products. I say they
should be mandated to take it to the same shop to find the actual basis for
whatever results they are trying to give us across the board. Thats as bad
as the computer Cyrix Processor saying it runs a 500 mhz system, when they
aren't even measuring the output with the same standards Intel or AMD use
for their computer chips. It would be like me saying,
muscle disease> "I can bench press 2500 pounds" and you say wow!! lets see
you do it, so I go to my bank get 2500 British Pounds from the foreign
currency teller in paper bills and lift them....:) Of course at that point
you might chuckle or you might think I really cheated you, especially if we
a little wager on whether or not I could do what I said. I'm sure there are
groups out there like consumer reports that buy and test these vehicles, but
I would like to see a more exacting standard used to convey the true reality
of the numbers they post. I suppose thats why we have lists like this.

Just my rambling 2 cents...ok, so it's more like a quarter!
C.K.

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:46:45 -0400
From: "John W. Barron"
Subject: FTE 97up - Recall 97 Up

Well I certainly got a lot of grief for posting the information about
dealer sabatoge to my son's truck. What has escaped many folk's notice
is that
this is not a very serious hazard - otherwise all owners would be
required to
go to the dealer for a disconnect - cable cutting ceremony. Don't you
think the shysters at Ford's legal dept. looked into this?

I will wager with anyone that the dealer notice did not include
instructions on how to tell a "good" cable from a "bad" one!. Just cut
them all, if customer comes in and makes an inquiry about the recall.
Otherwise, wait 'till parts come in. Remember, not a single cruise
control has "stuck" because of the problem Ford discovered.

- --
John W. Barron
j.w.barron worldnet.att.net
PCS Mobile Phone: 919-272-2384

Avoyelles Parish (LA) Web Page:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~jwbarron/avoyeles.htm


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:53:57 -0500
From: "David Moore"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - End of the Thread

Yes I agree about the breasts but I can't say that anyone else other than
the affected woman would be harmed/killed but the decision to leave a
/known/ safety problem in place that could kill others is a bit beyond
comparison.

david

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Keith Veren
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 10:36 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - End of the Thread


The root of this whole thread:

Total lack of communication.

The dealer should have let the owner know that it wanted to cut the cable.
The car does not belong to the dealer. The dealer should not have cut the
cable without communicating the necessity to the owner and getting
permission. The letter from Ford specifically states that owners MAY
REQUEST that the cable be cut (for free) to ensure the cruise-control is not
operated accedentally by the owner or by an unfamiliar driver. We do not
lop-off a ladies breast to save her from cancer, even if it is medically
necessary to prevent death, unless we have her permission.

Keith



- -----Original Message-----
From: Jean Marc Chartier
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - RECALL ACTION


>"C. K. Hartline" wrote:
>>
>> FWIW, I didn't read menace into what he wrote about his son noticing the
>> cruise that was cut by the dealer without his permission. Ford notices a
>> problem, but can't fix it, because they don't have the parts, not because
>> the customer isn't willing to come in and get it fixed. Instead of being
>> told politely not to use the cruise because it was affected, or asking to
>> cut the cable, the dealership took it upon themselves to disable the
system
>> completely without consulting the owner of the vehicle. THAT FOR
WHATEVER
>> REASON IS SABOTAGE!!!! I understand that it was for a 'good' cause, but
>> then what Ford should be doing is notifying customers to bring in their
>> vehicles to have the cruise disabled. MOST of these recalls are
'potential'
>> problems, not eminant ones. NO, I don't want my cruise going crazy and
>> taking control from me, but I don't need anyone taking my vehicle's
>> capability and deciding whats acceptable without my permission either.
That
>> would be like me deciding that in bad weather your truck's big tires are
>> potential hydroplaning hazards, so I would just stick a knife in them
>>
>> dictating to you what I could simply advise you of as a hazard>. I
don't
>> want to kill anyone on the road, but if a Ford dealership pulled that
stunt
>> on my NEW TRUCK, I would be madder than .
And
>> that in and of itself doesn't make me a menace, but it does mean I've
been
>> sabotaged by my dealership. If we really want to save all the
>> mothers,sisters, and children we haven't maimed and killed by out of
control
>> cars, then lets just go back about a hundred years and go back to horse
and
>> buggy days, but then horses back then were unpredictable too. And maybe
>> just maybe, if the dealership would have been up front with the service
the
>> boy wouldn't have had a need to see if the cruise still worked.
>>
>> Personally, after the recall notice I would have avoided using it until
the
>> parts came in. Obviously they used it until the notice came in and then
had
>> the dealer check to see if their vehicle was affected, the dealer is at
>> fault, not the customer.
>>
>> My 2 cents worth,
>> C.K.
>>
>> Oh and one last thing! If you have an affected vehicle, use some common
>> sense, avoid using your cruise control, and while you're at it, avoid
>> getting your vehicle serviced by a dealership you can't trust to level
with
>> you!!
>>
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>C.K.
>
> Did you get a letter from Ford? Do you know of the
>contents of this letter? I am not in disagreement about the
>dealer's actions. I am disgusted that some ignorant person
>would attempt to use cruise control after being warned not
>to do so. The recall letter is very clear about this.
>
> You have attempted to deflect the blatant disregard for
>safety by stating that what the dealer did was wrong. It
>was wrong but that is not my point... Do not use the cruise
>control of an affected vehicle it could be dangerous.
>
>Kindest regards
>
>Jean Marc Chartier
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:06:25 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Door gaskets

The part numbers are F81Z 2520758 aa Front and F81Z 26253A24 AA for the
rear. The bad news is that Ford won't pay to add them. There's a SSM
(special service message) that effective mid year Ford Won't pay to install
the strips on trucks with running boards due to the fact that the boards
already provide the sound deading. Your dealer might not know this and
could possibly cover it under warranty though.


Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: George Rigney
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 7:54 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Door gaskets


> Nathan,
>
> It's an XLT crew cab with factory running boards (some posts have
suggested
> that this makes a difference). It was built in January of this year (I
can
> get the exact build date and the VIN if you need it). They're missing
from
> the front doors, but I didn't think to check the back. It's a fantastic
> truck and we have no complaints at all. We find the ride extremely quiet
> even without the gaskets, but dirt does tend to gather outside the frame
> gaskets. When we bring it in for tire rotation in a couple of months, I'm
> going to get the gaskets whether they're under warranty or not. My
sincere
> thanks for the wealth of information you have provided this group.
>
> George
>
> 1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
> 1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
> 1999 F250 SD CC V10
>


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:22:53 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Recall 97 Up

I think that gets back to 'potential' problem versus 'iminent' problem.

Either way, I'll be glad when they get the parts and things get back to
normal...

C.K.

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:23:20 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - ordered intermed. pipe for 99PSD

hey guys, hope there isnt any EPA guys listening! Well i ordered the
intermediate pipe to retro fit 99 to 99.5 status on my 142"wb F250 SD, out
the door was like 70. and change, yikes! For a pipe i could have made
probably for 25. I should have it next week. Will give a rundown on swap
and performance enhanced , better turbo spool or if i just tossed more money
down the drain. Guy at the parts counter did ask me what it was for, i was
like uhhh its a piece of exhaust. :)

oh btw: thanks nathan for part no.!

Ross S.
99 F250SD PSD/SC/4x4
9sec93cobra


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:59:03 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - End of the Thread

Fellas we could all carry this thing waaaaaaay waaaaaaaaaaay out there, I
mean, shoot, if you wanna use the 'potential' for killing or maiming, then
we should just blow up the world and kill all the people who could be
potential killers or maimers...since anyone could be a
potential criminal or murderer. Same goes for these vehicles, I mean: you
ever have your brakes fade away from you unexpectedly? I have. Did I sue
the manufacturer of my car? NO!! Did I go to a mechanic and determine that
brake fading problem was a potential for disaster so I just had him cut the
ignition wire so the car couldn't be used until the parts came in to fix the
problem? NOOOO!!! But if the mechanic, told me not
to drive it til we got the brakes fixed, I took his advice. Had my dad not
said anything and simply pulled the distributor in an effort to keep me from
using the car without even explaning the situation to me....
but I wasn't that stupid!> don't you think I could have simply fixed the
distributor problem and driven with bad brakes? And to think this has been
about something Ford discovered, but can't fix due to their limitation of
proper parts, and then rather than tell the customer up front, they take
matters into their own hands. And for what it's worth, removing a woman's
breast without her consent would no doubt lead to deep depression in which
she would vent her anger on anyone who looked like the
doctor who preformed the surgery...This is of course being very
facicious...but you get my meaning. Bottom line, Ford dealers have no right
to tamper with a customer car that results in destruction of a product
if there is POTENTIAL for the product to be defective...doesn't ammunition
fall under this category too?> without the customer's express permission.
At the same time, the
customer has a direct responsibility to read any correspondence from the
manufacturer that has direct bearing on the proper functioning of their
vehicle. As I've said before, I would have simply quit using the CC
control> until I could get the parts. But then I would seriously have
considered a direct conversation with the owner of the dealership after they
cut my cable without my permission. And hey, there's always the POTENTIAL
to take out a full page ad stating the dealership cut the cable without my
permission and without telling me they had done it. We can argue this stuff
til we are like allllll soooooo blue in the face that pretty shade of blue
they just added to the SD lineup...LOL Although I will say again
don't kill me for this good sir> I would not have driven after I got the
notice with the cc, I do find it amusing that there hasn't been one incident
of the problem occuring on a currently licensed vehicle.

Just my next 2 bits worth,
C.K.

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:59:09 -0400
From: ryana asg.com (Ryan Allen)
Subject: FTE 97up - Cruise Recall

Anyone interested in knowing about the recall should visit Ford's website
and check their VIN to see if they are involved in the recall. I did that
with my 1999 F150 4x4 and it wasn't involved. Then go to the dealer ONLY
when the parts are in.

My $.02.

Cheers,
Ryan
Y2K Team Lead/Intranet Specialist
Internal Y2K Task Force
Allen Systems Group
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.asg.com

## Please visit my Personal Page ##
## http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.gate.net/~airwolf ##
## Updated w/New Y2K Information ##
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:14:08 -0500
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Door gaskets

Thank you very much, Nathan. It won't hurt to ask. Even if they won't
cover it, I'll spring for them if they're not outrageously priced.

George

1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
1999 F250 SD CC V10

- -----Original Message-----
From: Union Auto [mailto:unionaut adiis.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 2:06 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Door gaskets


The part numbers are F81Z 2520758 aa Front and F81Z 26253A24 AA for the
rear. The bad news is that Ford won't pay to add them. There's a SSM
(special service message) that effective mid year Ford Won't pay to install
the strips on trucks with running boards due to the fact that the boards
already provide the sound deading. Your dealer might not know this and
could possibly cover it under warranty though.


Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: George Rigney
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 7:54 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Door gaskets


> Nathan,
>
> It's an XLT crew cab with factory running boards (some posts have
suggested
> that this makes a difference). It was built in January of this year (I
can
> get the exact build date and the VIN if you need it). They're missing
from
> the front doors, but I didn't think to check the back. It's a fantastic
> truck and we have no complaints at all. We find the ride extremely quiet
> even without the gaskets, but dirt does tend to gather outside the frame
> gaskets. When we bring it in for tire rotation in a couple of months, I'm
> going to get the gaskets whether they're under warranty or not. My
sincere
> thanks for the wealth of information you have provided this group.
>
> George
>
> 1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
> 1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
> 1999 F250 SD CC V10
>


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:30:46 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Cruise Recall

As a dealer this recall is very infuriating. Ford sends out letters,
but won't support it with parts. I wish some people would threaten buy back
to see what happens. As for using the cruise, I would still use mine. Odds
of it having problems are slim to none, and if it did just put it in
neutral, turn the key off and after the engine stops, turn the key back on.
I've had throttles stick on vehicles many times and have never had an
accident because of it.

Nathan Bernard

- ----- Original Message -----
From: David Moore
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - End of the Thread


> Yes I agree about the breasts but I can't say that anyone else other than
> the affected woman would be harmed/killed but the decision to leave a
> /known/ safety problem in place that could kill others is a bit beyond
> comparison.
>
> david
>


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:12:18 -0500
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: FTE 97up - Customer Returns Car - Didn't Like it!

I thought this true story was interesting enough to share,

A guy that works at the same company I do had recently
purchased a new Ford vehicle (not sure of model), on a
Saturday and returned it the following Monday because he
just didn't like it. Nothing wrong with it, just didn't like it.

When he dropped it off on the dealer's lot and informed them
that he had changed his mind and did not want this car and
was returning it. The dealer said "you can't do that", and he
replied "who yes I can". Then the dealer said "if you leave here
without that car we'll have it towed to your address and bill you
for it", which he then said "go ahead it's your now", and walked.

He then stopped at his credit union and had the check for the
down payment canceled.

About a month later he received his first statement from Ford
financing. He called them and informed them that he decided
against buying the vehicle and return the following Monday
(by Illinois law dealers must be closed on Sunday). And that
was the end of it.

I never heard of returning a car, everything else but not a car.
Apparently, Illinois' also has a law that gives a buyer up to
five working days to return anything that they've purchased.

Nathan, did you ever get somebody like this at your dealership?


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:17:43 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.

Just got word that Week # 17 is the last week for Scheduling Super Duty's.
We just started Week #15 today, so that means all trucks to be built should
be scheduled in the next three weeks. I don't know if this is just for the
KC region or national, but even if other regions are different (but I think
this is national), they won't be far behind. This means that Ford will
schedule the rest of the years trucks in the next three weeks. Usually this
means that allocation doubles, but that means that the time from scheduling
to actually being built stretches out. If your planing on ordering a '99 SD
I'd recommend doing it very soon or it probably won't stand a chance of
getting built (still might not even if you order today). The fax stated
that they were going to try to get all retails built, but if you didn't have
allocation you wouldn't get units.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Union, IA 50258

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:04:47 -0400
From: RAY WRIGHT
Subject: Subject: FTE 97up - Exhaust chrome tips for PSD.

I ordered a stainless steel tip from exaust specialist,in Manchester Ct.
50.00 includes them welding it on,don't bother getting a chrome one they
don't last long at all.Should be in,in about a week.If you are
interested,e-mail me at tworites home.com maybe I can hook you up with
one.
Ray Wright
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:18:59 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.

Nathan, this is very interesting, because I called a Ford dealer and was
told I could order a new Ford up until the first part of June
factory order on the phone> ...Obviously they are gearing up to complete
retail builds to set up for next year's model...are they that far behind
that they quit giving dealers trucks two months before they quit taking
factory orders? This seems very very strange.

C.K.
Saint Louis, Missouri


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:19:08 -0700
From: "Matt Adams"
Subject: FTE 97up - second battery in my f-150?

Has anyone installed a second battery into their f-150's? If so what type,
and where did you mount it? I am installing two more sets of lights into my
truck, and I have the feeling I have entirely too much attached to my
battery (I have my 350 watt amp, will be up to three sets of lights, and my
topper, or can I have that much all attached to the stock battery without
any problems? The lights I have now are Hella 550's, the lights I will be
installing are PIAA 520 Fog LIghts and PIAA 910 Driving Lights (both with
remotes).

Matt


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:45:08 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

The b is for brake as in brake horsepower. The earliest dynomometers were
called prony brakes as a type of design. The idea was that you but a brake
shoe aginst a rotating shaft hooked to the engine and you measured the amount
of torque needed to keep the brake from rotating. You kept dialing up the
torgue until you could no longer keep the engine at that rpm setting despite
throttle setting. Torque and rpm will give you HP. It was called bhp. The
friction brake worked OK for 25, 35 hp engines, Today horspower is measured
on larger dynomometers, generally tied to a hydraulic pump wher you measure
gpm and pressure or a big generator with a resistive load. In any case the
the principle is the same. You hold the engine at a constant speed and keep
adding load until it won't hold a given rpm. It's still officially called
brake hp though. And by the way, it's usually measured at the flywheel
possibly with no accessories.

Ford may be quoting the number with accessories or may be quoting it at the
transmisson output or even at the real wheels though I doubt it. The mfrs
used to quote raw engine bhp with no alternato/generator or even the fan or
water pump to get higher ratings. They caught a lot of critcism for that and
standardized the vehicle hp measurementto include at least some of the
support hardware. I suspect that is where the difference is. Fords might
more closly represent available HP while the Navistar number is the peak hp
the engine is capable of producing.

Just a guess but 15hp is about the difference I would expect to see in that
situation.

John G
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:07:35 -0700
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

> Ford may be quoting the number with accessories or may be quoting it at the
> transmisson output or even at the real wheels though I doubt it. The mfrs
> used to quote raw engine bhp with no alternato/generator or even the fan or
> water pump to get higher ratings. They caught a lot of critcism for that and
> standardized the vehicle hp measurementto include at least some of the
> support hardware. I suspect that is where the difference is. Fords might
> more closly represent available HP while the Navistar number is the peak hp
> the engine is capable of producing.

Ford (and all other manufacturers since around 1972 or so) quote net HP
ratings. This is with all belt-driven accessories, the air filter, and the
exhaust system attached, but recorded at the flywheel. The earlier numbers
were gross hp and these were determined with no belt-driven accessories,
open intake, and no exhaust system.

Does the Navistar label say something like "Net HP"?

Rob
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:16:22 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - second battery in my f-150?

Suspect the battery might be OK but your alternator may be sucking wind. I
would get out there and look for the highest ampeage alternator you can get
in there. I think standard these days they come wth about 85 to 95 amps.
Some of the shops that specialize in super big auto stereos---- 1000 watt
stuff you know the Honda Civic going down thr road going THUMPA Thumpa
Thumpa and you can see the sheet metal flexing. The driver either has ear
plugs or is stone deaf BUT ITS COOL.---------carry oversize alternators.
They ain't cheap though.

Bottom line is, the battery is like a water tank, if you pull water (current)
out fster than you put it in it will eventually go dry. Two batteries will
only delay the inevitable.

I was able to put two batteries in my old 86 Blazer but it had provisions for
a deisel and GM always had two batteries in the diesel so a new left side
battery tray and away we went.. The F150 doesn't have that option though and
you are just going to have to find a hole wher you can mount a battey tray.
Generally if you can move the washer tank or the overflw tank you can get
enough room. Check and see if the 6 cyl has them in a different location.

There are some high capacity gel batteries out there as well. They are about
half the width and can be mounted on their side. So two can go in a single
battery tray. GOOD 4x4 flolks should be aware of of these or check with 4
wheel drive (Peterson Publishing) They had a write up or mention of them
about a year back.

Good Luck

Suggestion, check with you local RV folks for hookup ideas. You will want to
isolate the two batteries so that one cannot discharge the other but still
have the alternator charge both. They never die together unless they are
linked in parallel.

It's always neat to be at a gas staion and pull out the jumper cables and
give yourself a jump. The cables coming out generally get snickers until
you start youself, then jaws drop
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:35:51 -0700
From: Roger J Hutflesz
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets

F250, Diesel, long bed 1999, with no running boards. Did come with the
gaskets.

Roger H.




On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:23:13 -0400 GEORGE CROLL
writes:
>Went to the local dealer and tried to get him to put gaskets on the
>bottom of my doors for free. While arguing with him
>we looked at all of the SD trucks on the lot. The only trucks without
>the gaskets are ones with factory running
>boards. The dealer "assumes" that the gaskets are not necesssary if
>the running boards are on the truck. Any truth
>to this???
>
>George Croll
>EPA-OAR-ARD
>(202)564-0162
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>

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:36:28 -0400
From: zman
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.

I talk to a few dealers here in the Cinci area and they tell me I can order one
at any time. I found this VERY hard to believe but that is what they said. Are
the Y2K SDs getting a price increase?



joe

Union Auto wrote:

> Just got word that Week # 17 is the last week for Scheduling Super Duty's.
> We just started Week #15 today, so that means all trucks to be built should
> be scheduled in the next three weeks. I don't know if this is just for the
> KC region or national, but even if other regions are different (but I think
> this is national), they won't be far behind. This means that Ford will
> schedule the rest of the years trucks in the next three weeks. Usually this
> means that allocation doubles, but that means that the time from scheduling
> to actually being built stretches out. If your planing on ordering a '99 SD
> I'd recommend doing it very soon or it probably won't stand a chance of
> getting built (still might not even if you order today). The fax stated
> that they were going to try to get all retails built, but if you didn't have
> allocation you wouldn't get units.
>
> Nathan Bernard
> Union Auto, Inc.
> Union, IA 50258
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:45:51 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP? Rear wheel HP thread

got to agree with the rear wheel HP argument. In four wheeler magazine the mag put several trucks to the true Dyno
test with some surprising results.

the V-10 (with automatic) Ford was only marginally better in rear wheel HP than the new chevy 5.3 Vortec, both at
about 180 HP and the dodge ISB diesel (with manual) was tops with about 220 HP or so. The Torque curve was
even worse with the ISB putting 500+ ft lbs to the rear wheels and the V-10 ford putting far less (in the 300 or below
range. the chevy 5.3 did even worse.

the good news is that the PSD would probably put huge numbers to the rear wheels, the bad news for me as a V-10
owner is that the V-10 auto is pretty anemic. the mag did state that the V-10 was new and they thought after a good
break in it would improve but I think all the gas motors would.

this thread of thought led me to the following.

One thing I have wondered is how much do you really lose in rear wheel HP when using an automaitc vs using a
manual. I assume that the auto converts a lot of power to heat in the process while the manual gets only internal
bearing friction losses when transferring power. If ford is building the auto to stand up to the huge torque of the PSD
for durability reasons does it lead to a really inefficient unit which loses a lot of power in the process? I think this is
fine for the PSD which has torque to spare but it might help explain the rather anemic rear wheel HP of the V-10
when using the same auto. I guess the good news is that the V-10 will never break the auto designed to hold up to
the PSD.

any automatic tranny experts out there?

George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:03:01 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Cruise Recall

Agreed, Nathan. However, if you do turn the engine off with the key while
driving, make sure you do not lock the steering column! I do not know if
the new vehicles have a prevent-mechanism, but in many older vehicles it was
possible to lock the steering wheel (and gear selector) by turning the key
off (to "Lock") while driving!

Keith

- -----Original Message-----
From: Union Auto
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 4:30 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Cruise Recall


> As a dealer this recall is very infuriating. Ford sends out letters,
>but won't support it with parts. I wish some people would threaten buy
back
>to see what happens. As for using the cruise, I would still use mine.
Odds
>of it having problems are slim to none, and if it did just put it in
>neutral, turn the key off and after the engine stops, turn the key back on.
>I've had throttles stick on vehicles many times and have never had an
>accident because of it.
>
>Nathan Bernard
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: David Moore
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:53 PM
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - End of the Thread
>
>
>> Yes I agree about the breasts but I can't say that anyone else other than
>> the affected woman would be harmed/killed but the decision to leave a
>> /known/ safety problem in place that could kill others is a bit beyond
>> comparison.
>>
>> david
>>
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:08:09 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Door gaskets

Nathan, could you please let us know the part numbers for the door gaskets
in a SuperCab?
['99 F-350 SuperDuty / XLT / SuperCab / V-10 / Longbed / Factory "Running
Boards" / 4X4 / etc.]
Thanks!

Keith


From: George Rigney
To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Door gaskets


>Thank you very much, Nathan. It won't hurt to ask. Even if they won't
>cover it, I'll spring for them if they're not outrageously priced.
>
>George
>
>1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:08:33 -0700
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Cruise Recall

I don't recall if I said this here or not. But as part of my drivers
education, via my uncle the sheriff, stomped on the gas pedal and told me,
"Deal with it!" I learned, very quickly how to deal with a stuck throttle.
He also taught me how to stop a car without the main brakes: gear down and
parking brake. For driver ed, I has to stop the car going down hill.

I have had a stuck throttle; massive brake fade, going down a hill; engine
fire; blown clutch (twice); loss of steering; total loss of traction on
black ice. I survived by knowing what to do in an emergency. Okay, the
black ice I had help from the big guy above.

I knew of a person that drove several miles, in rush hour traffic, with a
stuck throttle, pressing hard on the brakes. What finally stopped this
person, was another car. And they blamed the driving public because they
honked the horn trying to get help. This person had no business operating
a vehicle!

Okay, that is my $.02.

Now, I think this horse is dead.

- -Julian

At 14:30 04/15/99 -0500, you wrote:
> As a dealer this recall is very infuriating. Ford sends out letters,
>but won't support it with parts. I wish some people would threaten buy back
>to see what happens. As for using the cruise, I would still use mine. Odds
>of it having problems are slim to none, and if it did just put it in
>neutral, turn the key off and after the engine stops, turn the key back on.
>I've had throttles stick on vehicles many times and have never had an
>accident because of it.
>
>Nathan Bernard
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: David Moore
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:53 PM
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - End of the Thread
>
>
>> Yes I agree about the breasts but I can't say that anyone else other than
>> the affected woman would be harmed/killed but the decision to leave a
>> /known/ safety problem in place that could kill others is a bit beyond
>> comparison.
>>
>> david
>>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:12:30 -0700
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.

Hi Nathan,

I am looking at replacing my Ranger with a SD 4x4 about the end of August.

My quandary is that I can not afford to pick up the truck until at least
August. Should I order now and hope that it does not come in early, or
should I wait till the summer? I live in Seattle, btw

- -Julian

At 16:17 04/15/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Just got word that Week # 17 is the last week for Scheduling Super Duty's.
>We just started Week #15 today, so that means all trucks to be built should
>be scheduled in the next three weeks. I don't know if this is just for the
>KC region or national, but even if other regions are different (but I think
>this is national), they won't be far behind. This means that Ford will
>schedule the rest of the years trucks in the next three weeks. Usually this
>means that allocation doubles, but that means that the time from scheduling
>to actually being built stretches out. If your planing on ordering a '99 SD
>I'd recommend doing it very soon or it probably won't stand a chance of
>getting built (still might not even if you order today). The fax stated
>that they were going to try to get all retails built, but if you didn't have
>allocation you wouldn't get units.
>
>Nathan Bernard
>Union Auto, Inc.
>Union, IA 50258
>
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:18:43 -0700
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP? Rear wheel HP thread

> got to agree with the rear wheel HP argument. In four wheeler magazine the
> mag put several trucks to the true Dyno
> test with some surprising results.
>
> the V-10 (with automatic) Ford was only marginally better in rear wheel HP
> than the new chevy 5.3 Vortec, both at
> about 180 HP and the dodge ISB diesel (with manual) was tops with about 220
> HP or so. The Torque curve was
> even worse with the ISB putting 500+ ft lbs to the rear wheels and the V-10
> ford putting far less (in the 300 or below
> range. the chevy 5.3 did even worse.

That must have been a VERY fresh V10! In the latest Truck Trend chassis dyno
test, the GM 5.3 put out 182.8hp 4750r/min and 221.7ft/lb 3750r/min with
3.73 gears. The Dodge 5.9 (gas) put out 194.7hp 4500r/min and 257.5ft/lb
3500r/min with 3.92 gears. The Ford 5.4 (260hp version) put out 209.2hp
4250r/min and 281.2ft/lb 3000r/min with 3.55 gears. All of the trucks were
automatics (the F-150 had a 4R100). The Chevy numbers here seem to agree
with the Four Wheeler numbers, but it seems like the 5.4 is doing much
better than the 6.8, which doesn't seem right, even with the 5.4L's improved
heads. But then again, I've heard that the Tritons are VERY tight when new.

Rob
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:07:55 -0500
From: "Karl Nyhus"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Balance out.

>JJ Thomas wrote:
>I am looking at replacing my Ranger with a SD 4x4 about the end of
>August. My quandary is that I can not afford to pick up the truck until
>at least August. Should I order now and hope that it does not come
>in early, or should I wait till the summer?

I ordered my '97 F150 in October 1996 for delivery "sometime" the following
May so I could build up my down payment. My salesman came through as
promised and delivered it to me on May 9th, 1997. The only problem came
along about March when I began wishing I could get it sooner but found out
that the schedule was pretty well locked in...

Karl

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:21:31 -0700
From: Kent Tombs
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - !999 SD door panel removal ??

Bill wrote:
>
> I would like to remove the inside door panels from both
> front and rear doors on my 1999 F-250 supercab to add some
> sound deadner behind the panels. I think there held in
> place with clips and will come out without much problem, but
> are there any hidden screws that also hold the panel on.
> Sure would hate to break the plastic. Thanks, Bill
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

The front door you pull up on the black piece your power switches are in
, you will then find a 9/32 bolt, Pop out the red reflector down at the
bottom side of door , you will find a second 9/32 bolt. Once the bolts
are removed the door panel lifts up , it is on hooks. The rear door you
remove the two phillips screws holding on the rear window latch, then
pull the panel off straight towards you. You can then see two 9/32 bolts
remove them, you will also see black plastic pop rivet type devices,
push the center into the door and the outer part will come out, you then
lift up on the bottom panel it is on hooks, reach inside and grab the
pop rivet type things from bottom of door. Assembly is the reverse
order.

Sorry if not in perfect detail but I think you will understand if you
try taking apart.

Hope this helps
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:29:20 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Customer Returns Car - Didn't Like it!

In a message dated 99-04-15 17:18:43 EDT, you write:


its 3 days to reconsider here in FL

RS

Date:99-04-15 17:18:43 EDT
From:abrahamc agcs.com (Charles Abraham)
Sender:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to:97up-list ford-trucks.com
To:97up-list ford-trucks.com

I thought this true story was interesting enough to share,

A guy that works at the same company I do had recently
purchased a new Ford vehicle (not sure of model), on a
Saturday and returned it the following Monday because he
just didn't like it. Nothing wrong with it, just didn't like it.

When he dropped it off on the dealer's lot and informed them
that he had changed his mind and did not want this car and
was returning it. The dealer said "you can't do that", and he
replied "who yes I can". Then the dealer said "if you leave here
without that car we'll have it towed to your address and bill you
for it", which he then said "go ahead it's your now", and walked.

He then stopped at his credit union and had the check for the
down payment canceled.

About a month later he received his first statement from Ford
financing. He called them and informed them that he decided
against buying the vehicle and return the following Monday
(by Illinois law dealers must be closed on Sunday). And that
was the end of it.

I never heard of returning a car, everything else but not a car.
Apparently, Illinois' also has a law that gives a buyer up to
five working days to return anything that they've purchased.

Nathan, did you ever get somebody like this at your dealership?


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:12:18 -0500
From: "Charles Abraham"
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To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Customer Returns Car - Didn't Like it!
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>>

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:05:38 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99.5 PSD 250 HP?

Thanks Rob. I knew they made that change in measurement approach but not sure
when it was.
John G
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:42:57 -0700
From: "mlester"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Customer Returns Car - Didn't Like it!

We do not get any "cooling off period" in California.

When you sign it is yours.

Martial

- -----Original Message-----
From: RSnovi aol.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Customer Returns Car - Didn't Like it!


>In a message dated 99-04-15 17:18:43 EDT, you write:
>
>
>its 3 days to reconsider here in FL
>
>RS
>
> Date: 99-04-15 17:18:43 EDT
> From: abrahamc agcs.com (Charles Abraham)
> Sender: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Reply-to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>
> I thought this true story was interesting enough to share,
>
> A guy that works at the same company I do had recently
> purchased a new Ford vehicle (not sure of model), on a
> Saturday and returned it the following Monday because he
> just didn't like it. Nothing wrong with it, just didn't like it.
>
> When he dropped it off on the dealer's lot and informed them
> that he had changed his mind and did not want this car and
> was returning it. The dealer said "you can't do that", and he
> replied "who yes I can". Then the dealer said "if you leave here
> without that car we'll have it towed to your address and bill you
> for it", which he then said "go ahead it's your now", and walked.
>
> He then stopped at his credit union and had the check for the
> down payment canceled.
>
> About a month later he received his first statement from Ford
> financing. He called them and informed them that he decided
> against buying the vehicle and return the following Monday
> (by Illinois law dealers must be closed on Sunday). And that
> was the end of it.
>
> I never heard of returning a car, everything else but not a car.
> Apparently, Illinois' also has a law that gives a buyer up to
> five working days to return anything that they've purchased.....


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