97up-list-digest Sunday, April 11 1999 Volume 02 : Number 091



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - F250 PSD Ready to buy please Help. -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets
Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets
Re: FTE 97up - F250 PSD Ready to buy please Help.
FTE 97up - Torque converter noise
Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets
Re: FTE 97up - F250 PSD Ready to buy please Help.
FTE 97up - Where to put the spare
Re: FTE 97up - Cab noise 1999 F-250 SD, SC, (V-10)
Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change
Re: FTE 97up - Cab noise 1999 F-250 SD, SC,
Re: FTE 97up - Fan clutch follies Part II
Re: FTE 97up - Fan clutch follies Part II
Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets
FTE 97up - 4R100 fluid capacity
Re: FTE 97up - fog lights
Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question rusty stuff
Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change
Re: FTE 97up - Cab noise 1999 F-250 SD, SC, (V-10) -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets -Reply
FTE 97up - four-wheeling anyone?
Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change/Dealer Stupidity
Re: FTE 97up - Cab noise 1999 F-250 SD, SC,
FTE 97up - Re:Bug Shield
FTE 97up - V8 vs V10 Gas Milage (Tires)
Re: FTE 97up - V8 vs V10 Gas Milage (Tires)
Re: FTE 97up - V8 vs V10 Gas Milage (Tires)
Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change/Dealer Stupidity
Re: FTE 97up - Reply to TSB for fuel regulator.
FTE 97up - 4R100 trans fluid change & tranfer case remarks
RE: FTE 97up - Re:Bug Shield
Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change

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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:12:58 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: FTE 97up - F250 PSD Ready to buy please Help. -Reply

do not believe this dealer. Go somewhere else. You shuld be able to get an ordered vehicle for 100 to 500 over
invoice. If you want to know what the MSRP and invoice are go to the www.carpoint.com site they have a pricing
feature which will give you both and let you build your "virtual truck" I do not know if they have the 2000 pricing yet.
BTW I bought a 99 SD V-10 regular cab, XLT with nearly every option available for 100 over invoice off the lot at Hll
and Sanders ford in the DC area. Two hours before I bought this truck I walked away form another dealer who was
telling me I couldnt do better than MSRP off the lot an a super duty.

Good hunting
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:23:13 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets

Went to the local dealer and tried to get him to put gaskets on the bottom of my doors for free. While arguing with him
we looked at all of the SD trucks on the lot. The only trucks without the gaskets are ones with factory running
boards. The dealer "assumes" that the gaskets are not necesssary if the running boards are on the truck. Any truth
to this???

George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:22:53 -0400
From: Bill
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets

Mine has factory running boards and no door rubbers.

GEORGE CROLL wrote:
>
> Went to the local dealer and tried to get him to put gaskets on the bottom of my doors for free. While arguing with him
> we looked at all of the SD trucks on the lot. The only trucks without the gaskets are ones with factory running
> boards. The dealer "assumes" that the gaskets are not necesssary if the running boards are on the truck. Any truth
> to this???
>
> George Croll
> EPA-OAR-ARD
> (202)564-0162
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:10:59 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 PSD Ready to buy please Help.

Get the automatic if you want to relax and enjoy your truck. I like driving
sports cars with "two hands and two feet", but when it came time to spec my
'99 F-350 SuperDuty / 4X4 / V-10 / SuperCab / Longbed / SRW / Snowplow
Package / etc. I went with the automatic. You won't break it. I have
snowplowed with mine and really pushed mountains of heavy wet snow long
distances and packed it into the previous mountain until it came over the
blade and if a transmission came take that, it can take anything.

Keith



> I am ready to order a 2000 F250, SD Extra Cab, Lariat, 4x4, Power
>Stroke, 6spd, long box, I don't have a trade so it's going to be a straight
>forward purchase. I have all my options selected. The only option I
ponder
>over is my choice of transmission. I've talked to one dealer in the
Southern
>Oregon area. He said I'd have to wait a few months for the 2000 prices and
>particulars. He gave me a price of about $1500 over invoice on a 1999 and
>about a 2-3 month delivery time. If I wanted one I'd have to order it
>straight away.
> He said they won't be able to give $1500 over on the 2000 model,
>probably closer to $2500. The reason given was they will be able to sell
>there allocation without a problem, so they don't feel they need to
discount
>the price any further.
>I do realize the dealers are in business to make money, however I would
>appreciate it if anybody knows of a dealer in the area who is a little more
>flexible in pricing. Am I getting the correct information about dealer
>allocation? Are there advantages to ordering accessories like bed liners
>with the initial order or picking them up later.
>I always feel that the automatic transmission is the weak link in these low
>revving high torque trucks, is there any truth to that?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>John
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:34:41 -0400
From: "John E. Nichols"
Subject: FTE 97up - Torque converter noise

Nathan,

I read in a recent post where you described a torque converter noise
that some
owners had experienced. Is there a TSB out for this and what type of
noise is it.
You may remember my noise problem that sounds like a power steering pump

noise but doesn't change when I turn the wheel. Also could the old air
box design
be causing the noise. I have been running the truck with out the fan
all winter
but that was not causing the noise. My truck was one of the first built
around
january 98 and is a PSD CC AT 4x4. Any insight would be appreciated.


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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:39:36 -0700
From: Gene Ball
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets

I also have a factory running boards and no door rubbers
4X4 crewcab larait !
Gene

Bill wrote:

> Mine has factory running boards and no door rubbers.
>
> GEORGE CROLL wrote:
> >
> > Went to the local dealer and tried to get him to put gaskets on the bottom of my doors for free. While arguing with him
> > we looked at all of the SD trucks on the lot. The only trucks without the gaskets are ones with factory running
> > boards. The dealer "assumes" that the gaskets are not necesssary if the running boards are on the truck. Any truth
> > to this???
> >
> > George Croll
> > EPA-OAR-ARD
> > (202)564-0162
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:44:14 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 PSD Ready to buy please Help.

Oh the pleasures of dealing with dealers. Sorry Nathan. Unfortunately, you
walk into a dealer and the first thing that happens is the salesman sizes you
up as to the sort of person he's dealing with. In the past I had two
occasions when different dealers said yes we have one of those on the storage
lot but it was too much trouble to get it to look at. If he thinks he can
sell you the $1500 over invoice price then that's what you get. Also,
remember that there is a sales manager somewhere back there that may have set
the policy. It's sort of like fighting the IRS. There are a lot of faceless
people setting policy with the single agenda of getting as much out of you as
possible. If your dealer does not have a lot of true Competition, or thinks
he doesn't, that's another problem. Some dealers also just don't want to
special order. They are simply concerned with moving floor plan vehicles.
Finally, the SD is a HIGH demand vehicle. Ford is running, at last report,
three shifts, 7 days at the plant that produces these things just to satisfy
demand. All of that says you will have to be as much of a h-rd a-s as the
salesman in negotiating and BE PREPARED TO WALK OUT at any time you don't
like where the discussion is going and go somewhere else.

$1000 to $1500 is a lot of money. Convert it into hours (Use net pay after
taxes) and you suddenly see what it's worth.

First, to get the best deal, be prepared to travel to a more remote dealer to
get what you want. You are in Southern, OR, be prepared to go to Portland.
Start right here on the Internet. You are an AOL subscriber and there is a
car buying service online here. See what they can come up with. Generally
they look for "IN Stock" vehicles but you will get an e-mail from them so you
can work the order option. I've bought two vehicles through them for
nominally $100 over invoice in the past year. I say nominally because there
is always some charges that flip in and out of the invoice. These were not
SuperDutys but I think the message is there.

Next, go work your financing independent of the dealer. Credit Unions are a
good source if you have access to one. You walk in to a dealer with a
guaranteed ability to buy up to a certain limit. That says you are serious
and have done your homework. You are in a far better position to bargain.

Your best bargaining chip is knowledge. If you can go in knowing as much as
the salesman, great.

Lastly, when you get to where you have a quote you like, I would suggest you
go back to your local dealer and give him another shot at it. At least when
you bring it in there for warranty service you can say "Hey, you had your
shot". It shouldn't matter but we have one small dealer in this area who
won't work on a car he didn't sell unless it was brought in from outside a
500 mile radius. Ford for some reason lets him get away with it.



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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:13:56 -0400
From: "Mike McNany"
Subject: FTE 97up - Where to put the spare

Did you consider mounting the spare to your fifth wheel? Assuming the tow
vehicle isn't a daily driver. Also a saw a class 3 2" receiver hitch that
mounts on the front of the truck. On the F150/Expedition picture I saw it
came out of the bumper opening. You can get several add on parts that fit it
including a spare tire mount, a winch mount, license plate holder (since it
takes that spot). You could put a bike carrier there too. Don't remember if
it referenced SDs.
Mike in Pa

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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:13:43 -0700
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cab noise 1999 F-250 SD, SC, (V-10)

Good question... For the most part it will be my only transportation.
I plan to run it until the wheels fall off and pay the man $50 to take it
to its final resting place. I do tow an occasional U-Haul. Originally I
plan to relocate to Atlanta (from Seattle) but I got a great full time job
here. Seattle has a decent bus system so for the most part the truck will
be used on long trips 3000 miles or so. I am averaging about 20,000 miles
a year and I like the big truck for safety reasons.

I like the front solid front axle, don't care for IFS on a 4x4. That gave
me two choices, Dodge and Ford. My lawyer said to stay away from Dodges.
Over my lifetime I have had good luck with Fords. I do run up to the back
country every now and then just to get away from civilization.

I do like performance in my trucks. If the V-10 is within 1-2MPG of the
V-8, I would be willing to get the V10 for the performance. If it is more
then 2MPG difference, then I'll get the V8 and go for the after market add-ons.

The truck is clearly a want and I can afford it. The PS would be nice, but
would put the truck out of my price range.

So far I am looking at the F-350 4x4, 3:73's and a manual gearbox. It is
not fancy, but will do what I need and want. I'd love to hear mileage
figures from someone that has one like it, btw.

- -Julian


At 10:59 04/08/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Julian asked:
>
>getting either the V8 or the V10 Superduty.>
>
>I think the more pertentant question is what kind of driving you do & how
>often to you sell/trade vehicles? I would think that the V-10 would be a
>great selling point for a towing/serious work truck for future buyers. I
>didn't know it was that inexpensive an option (I have an Expedition). I have
>been checking out the Excursion & find it is engine limited for towing. The
>5.4 tow limit is 6K while the V10 & PSD versions are both rated at 10K.
>Quite a jump in capacity, eh?
>Mike in PA
>
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:39:18 -0700
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change

I suspect that if OSHA got wind of this mechanics failure to perform his
job in a safe manner, there would be some problems for both the dealership
and mechanic. As far as the blood goes, the dealer needs to get that
cleaned up at their expense. Same with the scratches, that needs to be
fixed at the dealers cost. And both should have been done before you got
the truck back.

As far as the mechanic goes, "Idiot!" A tow hook is just that. It is not
a dang step on a ladder. I would have the mechanic to show you in the
service manual where it states that they are to use the tow hook as a step
ladder. And then show you in your owners manual where it says not to
polish or armorall the tow hook because it is to be used by mechanic to get
to the top of your truck. Then when you're done, take the shop manual and
beat the mechanic upside the head with it and knock some sense into him.
Well don't, you might get sued!

Speaking of which... in this litigious country of ours, you might want to
talk to an attorney in case stupid decides to sue you. I do not think he
has a case, but I thought the same of the women that spilled McDonalds hot
coffee into her lap... And for the record, I am _not_ an attorney.

Also, get some pictures of the spilled blood and damage, it might give you
something to go back on to the dealer. Personally, I think it is worth a
free oil change, at least.

- -Julian


At 12:36 04/08/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hey.
>
>I got a 99 F-350,Crew-Cab,Dully,Deisel and
>The other day I went to get my truck its first Diesel Oil Change. Because it
>was the first time I went to the dealer thinking it would be done right.
>Anyway, it cost me $112 just for the oil, filters, and and labor. Anybody
>think thats a ripoff....I do. And to top it off, the mechanic that did it
>steped on the tow hook to get on top and slipped. He fell and "almost"
>cracked his head open. He broke his legg and got blood over the truck. He
>also scratched it on the way down. He blames it on me because he says if I
>would`nt have put "armorall" on it he would not have fallen. Thats what I
>get for trying to make my truck look good.
>
>
>
>Becks2
>
>__
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.go.com
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://mail.go.com
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:53:06 -0700
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cab noise 1999 F-250 SD, SC,

Do you have a 4x4 or 4x2? Sorry if you previously said and I missed it.

I am looking at getting the 3:73. I may put a camper on it for a summer or
two, but for the most part the truck will be for town with a cab high shell
and pulling a U-haul every now and then, and a jaunt up to the backwoods..

- -Julian

At 07:14 04/08/99 -0400, you wrote:
>We have the V-10 & 4.30 axle, so far running empty milage is
>13.7 to 15.6 mpg. Pulling a 9500# trailer 7.2 to 8.9 mpg.
>This mileage is highway at 65 to 70 mph. If you are going
>to buy a gas engine and load the truck or pull a trailer
>over 5000#, yes the V-10 is the route to go. Depending on
>weight pulled you may not need the 4.30 axle. I say pulling
>up to #7000 the 3.73 axle and over #7000 the 4.30. My .02.
>
>JJ Thomas wrote:
>>
>> If I may ask, what type of mileage are you getting and what type of driving
>> do you do? Do think the V-10 is worth the extra $350. I am thinking of
>> getting either the V8 or the V10 Superduty.
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:15:06 -0700
From: Danny Gaudenti
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Fan clutch follies Part II

Quick update: I got the old fan off last night. It wasn't hard after I
bought the tool. The shop manual (and others) have said it has left-hand
threads. Mine has right-hand threads, which makes sense if you look at the
direction the fan spins. Right-hand threads would tend to tighten the fan.

Quick comment: More power is one reason I'm doing this, but the engine
should be more efficient overall. No need to be spinning a big heavy fan
while cruising on the freeway with a 65 MPH wind blowing into the radiator.
I don't think I'll notice an increase in MPG, but many little things can
add up. Also, I'm hoping that removing that heavy fan from the water pump
shaft will help the life of its bearings. Oops, that wasn't very quick...

Oh, you also asked at about cost. If you mean dollar cost: the fan was
$89, the temperature control (to the turn the fan on/off) was $20, switch,
relay and LED for dash control was $13 and then another few dollars for
wire, fuse, etc.

Danny

>This sounds like a great idea to me. I don't want to get involved in the
>electric versus belt fan debate, but I have also had much success with
>electric (solenoid controlled) fans over the years.
>
>I don't have any notions of turning my F-150 in to a "sports" truck, but to
>add a few more horses to my 4.2 V-6 would be nice. This sounds like one
>option that would add a few ponies. But at what cost is my question?
>
>I am extremely interested in hearing how you make out. Please keep us
>updated, or mail me directly if you think it more appropriate.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Eric
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:18:36 -0700
From: Danny Gaudenti
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Fan clutch follies Part II

I eventually want to use the stock temp sensor, but just to get the fan in
and running, I bought an adjustable temp control. It senses temp in the
top radiator hose to determine when the fan needs to turn on. It's a
Flex-a-lite NO. 31147.

Danny

>How do you sense temperature? Do you add an extra temp sensor, or do
>you tie into the F-150's stock temp sensor some how?
>
>Tom

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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:51:57 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets

So we've solved the door mystery perhaps? No, running boards, you get the
gaskets, running boards you listen to a noisier cab and perhaps have a
potential to get something up in there later? How much are the gaskets?
Man I'm glad this list exists! I'm gonna blow some dealer away when I get
around to getting my truck one of these days...

C.K.

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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:45:16 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - 4R100 fluid capacity

a quick one for you guys already with a few miles. From the looks of the
manual, it says 16 qts. Now what i would like to know is that for a routine
change or a from "dry" to fill. If so i need to order another case of
Redline D4ATF.
I was planning on doing transfer case at the same time i am under there so
just need to know if i need to get some more slippery stuff, because it calls
for the same thing basically.


thanks
Ross Smith
99 F250SD PSD/SC/4x4
9sec93cobra #2814/4993
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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:00:36 -0400
From: "Mitchell"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - fog lights

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://accessconnect.com/piaalamp.htm

Check out this website, they have stats, pictures and prices.

Stephen

- -----Original Message-----
From: Janster
To: 97 up list
Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:53 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - fog lights


>Can you post some more info on those PIAA foglights?

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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:04:17 -0600
From: Marc Beauchemin
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question rusty stuff

I too have the Better Built black Nerf Bars. had 'em since just after I
got the truck last July. They are already quite rusty with paint peeling
in several places including the top surface. I have large mud guards
that shield them so there's no good reason for this, and this truck is
babied.
I'm not impressed. Next time... plastic/fiberglass.

Marc
98 F250LD 4x4 XLT, SC, 5.4l, 3:73LS


- -----Original Message-----
From:owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
[SMTP:owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com]
Sent:Friday, April 09, 1999 19:43
To:97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject:97up-list-digest V2 #89

Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:37:17 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question rusty stuff
...
I almost forgot i install Better Built black tubular bars today, got them
from Cabela's, very nice and easy install. Helps tremendously jumping in
the
4x4.

RS


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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:24:52 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change
















Great idea Julian!!
But of course you remember he said the guy nearly split his head open on
the truck and broke his leg...and you and I both know...in court it would be
something like this...

Did you in fact not hit Mr. Mechanic upside the head
with a shop manual?

yes, to prove a point

so before you came into the shop my client didn't have a broken leg or
any brain damage and you admit to assault and battery with a shop manual,
after you sabotaged your own American made truck with a known slippery
substance designed to keep things from adhesion to a surface...yet you claim
he's responsible for the injuries he suffers today?!!

uhmm...no, he used the tow hook on my truck to try to step up to the
engine bay to put oil in it, and then said I was to blame; for him breaking
his leg and hitting his head, the shop manual thing well....that was just
something he had coming to him, really I think the Service Manager was gonna
do it anyway before the ambulance carried him out.

Write that down, Service Manager is
possible suit too. So there you have it! He admits to
everything and has even implicated the Service Manager as well!! I tell you
this smacks of a communist plot against the hard working underpaid though
not necessarily very intelligent mechanics of this country!! Oh and by the
way, please consider an extra couple hundred thousand so that my client can
build a garage for himself to work out of...that way he is closer to his bed
when he hits his head next time...because you know some other service
sabotoer will be after him again!!

*********************

Julian is right about one thing, in this sad crazy system of ours you can be
sued for just about anything. On the flip side, I don't think a counter
suit is even worth the hassle if the dealer is willing to pay or fix the
damage to the truck.

C.K.

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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:21:06 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cab noise 1999 F-250 SD, SC, (V-10) -Reply

Hi JJ

Simple engineering sense says the following. If the V-10 has 2 more cylinders than the V-8 and is identical in every
other way (A pretty good assumption for these motors) At the same RPM, compression and air to fuel ratio ( again a
pretty good assumption when highway driving with the same gears at the same speed) the v-10 will pump 20% more
air through the engine and use about 20% more gas. For the super duty this means about 12 mpg highway for the
v-10 and 15 mpg for the v-8. The 12 mpg number comes from my own V-10 with 3.73 and auto and is reinforced by
other reports I have heard here and elsewhere. The V-8 number is close to what I have heard in a few posts. In
city driving the V-10 drops to 10 mpg the V-8 to probably 12.5 mpg. I also think it is worth repeating from another
post that in terms of cost upgrading to the V-10 is your best performance bargain by far. Especially when compared
to attempting to increase the V-8 HP (and torque) to V-10 levels without losing all of the mileage benefits it offers. My
best guess is that a V-8 hopped up to 275 HP and 410 ft/lbs wouldn't get 12 mpg highway. You might consider a
better option to buy the V-10 and do mods to increase its mileage. (tonneau cover, electric fan, undersize pulleys,
free flow exhaust, K&N filter, slightly bigger, and still narrow, tires) and have the best of both worlds. BTW this
should not jeopardize the engine warranty.

You know its funny how easy it is to construct an argument to support a decision I made just because I WANTED a
V-10. Take it for what its worth, a V-10 owner saying its the way to go.

Late


George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:32:11 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets -Reply

I think they told me about $10 apiece for the door gaskets. I assume I could install them myself. Anyone tried this, do
they just push through the holes in the door or are they glued or something.
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:38:36 -0700
From: "Matt Adams"
Subject: FTE 97up - four-wheeling anyone?

hey, I am trying to find anyone that is throwing any four-wheeling events
this summer, preferably nothing too difficult, I prefer fun over challenge,
anywhere in the nation is ok, please let me know! To see a list of my
events I have so planend that everyone is invited to, check out
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pcisys.net/~mattbert/events.html or for info on my truck go to
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pcisys.net/~mattbert/babe/f150.html


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:28:21 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change/Dealer Stupidity

Well as for stupid people at dealers, they are everywhere. good example.

I go to dealer to find out about door gaskets for 99 F-250 super duty. (this story assumes that I am right in assuming
there are no 98 super duties or 2000 super duties yet.)

Tell counter girl my problem. she looks at build date on truck (11-98) and call parts to bring out a 98 F-250 manual to
look for gaskets.

I explain this is a 99 SD and a 98 manual for F-250 will be for the wrong truck

She does not believe me and argues that she has to know the year of the truck.

I agree that the build date is important to get the right info but that there are two kinds of F-250's built, regular type
and SD type.

She replies that only the build date matters for trucks built by ford.

I explain to her that super duties are a new truck marketed as 99's and that currently only 99 super duties exist and
that the 98 F-250 manual will be for the lighter duty line of trucks F-150/F-250.

she ignores me.

Bozo from parts arrives with 98 F-150/250 book. No gaskets

I show Bozo my SD truck and a "different" F-150 on the lot

Bozo explains that only the fenders and hood are different for all of the F-250's and that the book still applies to the
cab and doors of my truck.

I get frustrated and ask for the service manager

Service manager actually understands the difference between a F-250 SD and F-250

I explain problem, he does not believe me that gaskets exist for this place on the doors of the truck. He has worked
for ford for years and has never seen such a thing.

We go out on lot and look at trucks and figure out that gaskets are on trucks with running boards. I really think I am
getting somewhere.

On the way by my truck the service manager sees that I bought the truck from another dealer and flips out.

I explain how I went to his dealer first when shopping for a SD truck and they did not have what I wanted. I then
asked for them to search for a 99 SD for me locally and they did not help or even try. This even though I had bought
my wife a car there 6 months ago.

He refuses to help me other than to sell me the parts.

ACADEMY FORD in Laurel Maryland

George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:16:48 -0400
From: Bill
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Cab noise 1999 F-250 SD, SC,

4x2

JJ Thomas wrote:
>
> Do you have a 4x4 or 4x2? Sorry if you previously said and I missed it.
>
> I am looking at getting the 3:73. I may put a camper on it for a summer or
> two, but for the most part the truck will be for town with a cab high shell
> and pulling a U-haul every now and then, and a jaunt up to the backwoods..
>
> -Julian
>
> At 07:14 04/08/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >We have the V-10 & 4.30 axle, so far running empty milage is
> >13.7 to 15.6 mpg. Pulling a 9500# trailer 7.2 to 8.9 mpg.
> >This mileage is highway at 65 to 70 mph. If you are going
> >to buy a gas engine and load the truck or pull a trailer
> >over 5000#, yes the V-10 is the route to go. Depending on
> >weight pulled you may not need the 4.30 axle. I say pulling
> >up to #7000 the 3.73 axle and over #7000 the 4.30. My .02.
> >
> >JJ Thomas wrote:
> >>
> >> If I may ask, what type of mileage are you getting and what type of driving
> >> do you do? Do think the V-10 is worth the extra $350. I am thinking of
> >> getting either the V8 or the V10 Superduty.
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:26:49 -0700
From: RICK KANE
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:Bug Shield

I too have the Lund Interceptor. Removing the weather strip was no
problem and no adjustments needed to the hood. It does not rub and it
locks firmly closed by gravity alone. No extra force needed.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:11:22 -0700
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: FTE 97up - V8 vs V10 Gas Milage (Tires)

Thank for the V8-/ V10 mileage info. I can live with 10 and 12 MPG if there
is good performance with it. I am not the most light footed drive on the
earth, but I am not a heavy footed drive, either. I tend to take care of
my vehicles but l like to shove my foot through the floor once in a while.

I do have a questions about the tires though. My father (retired truck
driver) and my uncle (retired state patrol and retired truck driver) both
swear by the skinny tires. Do they make that much of a difference in the
mileage? I am looking for something will give me the good mileage and help
the truck last a long time. Most of the weather here in Seattle is
sometimes dry and various stages of raining. Occasionally we get snow.
How do the skinny tires perform in the snow and on wet roads? I am also
thinking about 4 wheel ABS. My four wheeling would be at the
beginner/armature level.

I will be installing a cab height shell. I'll have to think about the
electric fan. I will be doing some modifications to the exhaust and intake
once I get some mileage on the truck.

What does changing the pulleys accomplish? And what pulleys are you
talking about? I have never heard of that.

Thanks,

- -Julian

At 14:21 04/10/99 -0400, you wrote (and I edited for brevity):
>Hi JJ
>You might consider a >better option to buy the V-10 and do mods
>to increase its mileage. (tonneau cover, electric fan, undersize
>pulleys, free flow exhaust, K&N filter, slightly bigger, and still
>narrow, tires) and >have the best of both worlds. BTW this
>should not jeopardize the engine warranty.
>
>You know its funny how easy it is to construct an argument to
>support a decision I made just because I WANTED a V-10. Take
>it for what its worth, a V-10 owner saying its the way to go.
>
>Late
>
>
>George Croll
>EPA-OAR-ARD
>(202)564-0162
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:44:27 4
From: "Vaughn (VDB)"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - V8 vs V10 Gas Milage (Tires)

I would think skinny tires are better for almost anything
except mud. Also the skinny tire would weigh
less than a fatter tire therefore the vehicle
has less weight to turn therefore better mileage.
Thats what I would figure.
Vaughn
99 F250 SD SC SB XLT 4X4 5.4




Thank for the V8-/ V10 mileage info. I can live with 10 and 12
MPG if there is good performance with it. I am not the most
light footed drive on the earth, but I am not a heavy footed
drive, either. I tend to take care of my vehicles but l like to
shove my foot through the floor once in a while.

I do have a questions about the tires though. My father
(retired truck driver) and my uncle (retired state patrol and
retired truck driver) both swear by the skinny tires. Do they
make that much of a difference in the mileage? I am looking for
something will give me the good mileage and help the truck last
a long time. Most of the weather here in Seattle is sometimes
dry and various stages of raining. Occasionally we get snow.
How do the skinny tires perform in the snow and on wet roads? I
am also thinking about 4 wheel ABS. My four wheeling would be
at the beginner/armature level.

I will be installing a cab height shell. I'll have to think
about the electric fan. I will be doing some modifications to
the exhaust and intake once I get some mileage on the truck.

What does changing the pulleys accomplish? And what pulleys are
you talking about? I have never heard of that.

Thanks,

- -Julian

At 14:21 04/10/99 -0400, you wrote (and I edited for brevity):
>Hi JJ >You might consider a >better option to buy the V-10 and
do mods >to increase its mileage. (tonneau cover, electric fan,
undersize >pulleys, free flow exhaust, K&N filter, slightly
bigger, and still >narrow, tires) and >have the best of both
worlds. BTW this >should not jeopardize the engine warranty. >
>You know its funny how easy it is to construct an argument to
>support a decision I made just because I WANTED a V-10. Take
>it for what its worth, a V-10 owner saying its the way to go. >
>Late > > >George Croll >EPA-OAR-ARD >(202)564-0162 >==
FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:28:10 -0400
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - V8 vs V10 Gas Milage (Tires)

I have the fat tires, well, the fattest offroad tires offered by Ford. Off
road and fat both will decrease mileage some, how much? I have no idea. I
don't commute in my truck, but I do go on an occasional road trip, and
occasionally off-road. If I commuted with it, or did a lot of road mileage
driving I'd have gotten the normal all-terrain tires for noise reduction as
well as mileage considerations. Fat tires are only important when driving
OVER soft stuff, like mud, and real deep snow. You drive through most snow
on roadways, so skinnier is better for penetration to the road surface. If
you plan on going off road skinny tires penetrate soft ground easier,
increasing your odds of getting stuck. For the record, I think I get a
little less than average mileage, from what I've read here, with my V-10.
Truck is usually light with a fiberglass cap on the back.


- -----Original Message-----
From: JJ Thomas
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 7:39 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - V8 vs V10 Gas Milage (Tires)


>Thank for the V8-/ V10 mileage info. I can live with 10 and 12 MPG if there
>is good performance with it. I am not the most light footed drive on the
>earth, but I am not a heavy footed drive, either. I tend to take care of
>my vehicles but l like to shove my foot through the floor once in a while.
>
>I do have a questions about the tires though. My father (retired truck
>driver) and my uncle (retired state patrol and retired truck driver) both
>swear by the skinny tires. Do they make that much of a difference in the
>mileage? I am looking for something will give me the good mileage and help
>the truck last a long time. Most of the weather here in Seattle is
>sometimes dry and various stages of raining. Occasionally we get snow.
>How do the skinny tires perform in the snow and on wet roads? I am also
>thinking about 4 wheel ABS. My four wheeling would be at the
>beginner/armature level.
>
>I will be installing a cab height shell. I'll have to think about the
>electric fan. I will be doing some modifications to the exhaust and intake
>once I get some mileage on the truck.
>
>What does changing the pulleys accomplish? And what pulleys are you
>talking about? I have never heard of that.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Julian
>
>At 14:21 04/10/99 -0400, you wrote (and I edited for brevity):
>>Hi JJ
>>You might consider a >better option to buy the V-10 and do mods
>>to increase its mileage. (tonneau cover, electric fan, undersize
>>pulleys, free flow exhaust, K&N filter, slightly bigger, and still
>>narrow, tires) and >have the best of both worlds. BTW this
>>should not jeopardize the engine warranty.
>>
>>You know its funny how easy it is to construct an argument to
>>support a decision I made just because I WANTED a V-10. Take
>>it for what its worth, a V-10 owner saying its the way to go.
>>
>>Late
>>
>>
>>George Croll
>>EPA-OAR-ARD
>>(202)564-0162
>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:42:38 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Oil Change/Dealer Stupidity

George;
They do hate it when you go in knowing more than they do. I suggest that
Acadamy get a new parts manager, one that trains his people. The business of
not bought here isn't really that uncommon tho. Ford apparantly allows it. GM
is somewhat less tolerant of it from my understanding.

John G

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:04:38 EDT
From: JPatte5238 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Reply to TSB for fuel regulator.

fishng1
My superduty does the same thing after I put the superchip on. It seems that
the turbo kicks in and the truck starts a wheel hop.

John Patterson
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:19:51 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - 4R100 trans fluid change & tranfer case remarks

Ok i just got finished washing my hand from taking another oil bath. Here is
what you need to know for 4 R100 trans fluid change. Get a flexible funnel,
like the red ones you see at parts stores, i had a straight one took me a
while to fill it.
Around 6 qts. of Redline D4ATF w/o filter change since i am only at 11K.
Make sure you have your metric tools handy , pan looks all metric. ( i used a
1/2 in , not again, probably around a 13mm or so)

Now for the transfer case, woo hoo oil bath time! Well first of all since i
have the Off road package with 4x4. I now can see the need to slightly notch
the skid plate in order to not make the ATF run all over the place. Make
sure you have your suction gun ready! Drained out a bit over 2 qts. This
one looks really no different than my 89 F150 4x4's which was 3/8 or 1/2in....


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