97up-list-digest Wednesday, March 31 1999 Volume 02 : Number 078



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - F-350 brakes
FTE 97up - PTO
Re: FTE 97up - Lopsided Superduty............
Re: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror
RE: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror
FTE 97up - Owning a Diesel
Re: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror -Reply
FTE 97up - Trailer Life comparison of F250SD PSD/V10
Re: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - Trailer Life comparison of F250SD PSD/V10
Re: FTE 97up - Transmissions
RE: FTE 97up - Power Rear Slider
FTE 97up - F-Series changes/ 35th anniversary Mustang
FTE 97up - F550 Super Duty Made in Mexico?
Re: FTE 97up - Transmissions
Re: FTE 97up - Transmissions
Re: FTE 97up - Transmissions
Re: FTE 97up - Owning a Diesel
Re: FTE 97up - Subject: Trailer Life comparison of F250SDPSD/V10
Re: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror -Reply

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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:58:36 -0400
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - F-350 brakes

>
>
> weak, poorly proportioned brakes >>
> Are you kidding?! My F-350 has great brakes! I couldn't be happier!
Good brakes unloaded or on dry pavement. Absolutely dangerous loaded
to 11,000 on snow or even wet grass. Worthless at 11,000 (on pavement)
when supplied with the vacuum booster that they ship with the gas
engine, even though the order book says Hydro Boost.
Lee Haefele
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:03:16 -0400
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - PTO

> ooops...sorry upon further reading I see the PTO is workable with the 4x4
> setup...this new SD setup and options are really awesome!!
A PTO is to hook up a hydraulic pump or other option to the
transmission...Nothing to do with driving the truck!
Lee Haefele
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:16:52 EST
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Lopsided Superduty............

Chuck;
Your 250 4x4 has springs, only they are torsion bars. If they are sagging,
have them checked, there have been incidents of them breaking.

John G
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:33:49 EST
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror

Be grateful that the mirror isn't convex. That has to be one of the most
marginal safety ideas around. Yes, I know it eliminates blind spots but the
loss of distance judgment is as big a problem as the blind spot ever was. The
best compromise I find seems to be a flat mirror with a convex spot mirror.
Looks a bit tacky but it works.

John G

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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:04:00 -0600
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror

They put mirrors on the passenger side nowadays? All kidding aside, Gary,
I'm used to throwing a quick glance over my shoulder. My wife, however, is
not. As she is the one who drives our new truck on a daily basis, I made it
a point to adjust the mirrors so that there was NO blind spot. Have someone
walk around your truck while you adjust them and make sure that you can
always see him. It is not possible to completely eliminate the blind spot
on every vehicle, but you can almost always make it small enough that a Geo
Metro can't fit in it. I suggest that you repeat this procedure any time
you change drivers; small differences in height can make large differences
in mirror adjustment.

Regards,
George

1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
1999 F-250 SD CC V10

- -----Original Message-----
From: Gary Smith [mailto:garysm telusplanet.net]
Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 5:28 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror


The passenger side rear view mirror is not convex on the truck I
recently
took delivery of. This is a safety issue as all recently manufactured
vehicles have a convex mirror on passenger side as standard. Are all Super
Duty trucks like this? I did not order the trailer towing mirrors as they
are very large.

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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:12:04 -0700
From: "Matus, Scott A"
Subject: FTE 97up - Owning a Diesel

This is good news when traveling to NY. I'll fill up in PA first.

You think that people will not keep their vehicles 300,000 miles? I make a
plan for every new vehicle I have ever owned. My last vehicle I planned to
keep running 250,000 miles before retiring it (no date limit). So far I'm
at 234,000 and just barely keeping it on the road (trans problems).

My new PSD has the plan for 300,000 at about 25,000/year. Not that I will
give up my truck after 12 years, but only then will I start considering
replacing her. This way, I can budget the repairs/brakes/tires and just
regular upkeep. I don't know why, with the high price of these trucks, that
more people don't plan the life of their vehicles. I look my new truck as
an investment in transportation, not a depreciating asset.

I'm looking for a rolled F350 PSD from the salvage auctions. I try to buy a
salvage vehicle to strip parts from during the life of my truck. Anyone
know of any? This saves a lot of $$ in the long run.

I guess that I must be in a minority when it comes to my vehicles.

Scott.

- - - -Original Message - - -

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 02:23:11 PST
From: "Frank Spor"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Subject: Trailer Life comparison of F250SDPSD/V10

George...

The North east....Does that include NY, Where the ONLY way to get diesel
cheaper than gas is to Buy Heating fuel ?

OH that pesky dye....

Here In upstate NY (which is NE of almost everywhere) Diesel is at least
a dime Higher (when you can get it) Taxes I'm sure, but out of pocket
just the same..

The other issue that all Have chosen to ignore, is the cost of repairs
....Down the road. The diesels longevity in a constant run environment
is without question better.

How many of the "Diesel guys" are gonna want to drive the same pickup
truck 300,000 miles from now...

But I don't know that the "to the grocery store" environment is good for
it.

So now we have big high shiny Pickups going clack clack clack, while
people pick up their cup of coffee....

Now the Towns are going to want to pass Idle time restrictions....

What is next?
Frank

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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:07:16 -0500
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror -Reply

I'm still wondering why people on this list seem to keep bashing the tow mirrors on the super duty. They have both a
convex and a flat mirror and are some of the most useful mirrors I have ever used. Who cares that they stick out a
little.

My .02
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:41:28 -0800
From: "Kirk Werner"
Subject: FTE 97up - Trailer Life comparison of F250SD PSD/V10

I read that when you fit an engine with a performance chip, you shouldn't do
any significant towing with it. I hope that that's not true, because why
would you want to boost your HP and torque, but then not be able to use it
(unless you're just into burning rubber)?

Kirk

- -------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:24:10 -0800
From: "Kevin Mayer"
Subject: FTE 97up - Trailer Life comparison of F250SD PSD/V10

One of the points I find interesting about the fuel cost comparison is that
they base it on regular grade. I would never use regular when towing with a
gas engine because of the chance of pinging. I'm also quite certain that if
I had the V-10, I would put a chip in it which would require premium.

Kevin


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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:55:32 EST
From: JCBANVILLE aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror -Reply

In a message dated 99-03-30 11:31:01 EST, you write:


mirrors on the super duty. They have both a
convex and a flat mirror and are some of the most useful mirrors I have ever
used. Who cares that they stick out a
little. >>

"A little"? Functionality is one thing, but appearance is also very important,
IMHO. At least the Excursion, while using the SD front end, is using the side-
view (not rear-view) mirrors similar to the Expedition.

JimB
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:37:51 -0500
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Trailer Life comparison of F250SD PSD/V10

Kirk Werner wrote:
>
> I read that when you fit an engine with a performance chip, you shouldn't do
> any significant towing with it.
SNIP
> Kirk
>

Kirk,

I would disagree with that, there are a few chips that are
taylor made for towing. But just to be sure you should
check with your chip manufacturer.
Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:08:06 -0800
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Transmissions

On the 250LD, Expedition, and Navigator with the 5.4, you get the 4R100. On
the F-150 with the 5.4 you get the 4R70W unless you have CA emissions, then
you get the 4R100. With the 4.2 or 4.6, you get the 4R70W.

Rob

> In the Super Duty, the automatic transmissions are the same and
> designated 4R100 (next generation E4OD). I don't know what transmission
> they use in the 5.4 on the LD trucks.
>
> I've been following this thread with interest, how about a PSD instead of a
> V10? Also might as well look for a 4R100 with a PTO port too (out of
> and XL or XLT) :-). If you go the PSD, you can get an Aux Idle control.
>
> You sure it's not cheaper to buy a chassis cab, and throw away the cab. :-)?
>
> Also - You might be able to get some good SD frame infor here:
> (SD body builders guide)
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.meadowlandford.com/pdf/index.pdf
>
>
> C. K. Hartline wrote:
>
>> Can anyone tell me if the 5.4 Triton V-8 and the 6.8 Triton V-10 use the
>> same E4OD automatic transmission? If not what are the differences in the
>> transmissions? I'm still working on finding a chassis and drive train to
>> put up under my 41 Ford thats completely modern.
>>
>> C.K. Hartline
>> cakid stlmo.com
>> ca-kid swbell.net


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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:13:58 -0600
From: "David Moore"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Power Rear Slider

Exactly how much IS "half-price"?

david

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Matus, Scott A
Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 8:12 AM
To: 'F 97 - New'
Subject: FTE 97up - Power Rear Slider


Has anyone purchased the Ford Factory Power Slider? This is my first Crew
Cab! May I get your opinions about using the rear slider? ( I ordered my
truck without a manual slider. ) What is the difference in wind currents in
using the rear windows over the rear slider? I have been looking for an
aftermarket for some time, Ford's slider is pricey. I searched out a source
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.crlaurence.com/newcrlsite/Pages/ford_sliders1.html

They have the same exact thing at less than half the cost. You can only buy
from them if you have an account. My company has an account with them, but
did not know it. I'm checking if I can make a personal purchase for one.
If anyone else is interested I'd be willing to up the order quantity.
Just e-mail me with your interest.

Scott.
99 F350 PSD CC 4x4
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:54:43 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - F-Series changes/ 35th anniversary Mustang

1. F-Series Super Duty- effective Jan 5th, 1999 on all F-250-550 Super
Dutys the passenger side lumbar has been deleted.

2. Super Duty with OWL tires- When a spare is ordered with a Super Duty with
OWL tires the spare will be blackwall of the same type, tread and make.

3. In early april F-450 and F-550 will have a limited slip differential
option. The codes are XG8 for 4.88 on a F-450 , XG5 for 5.38 on a F-450,
XK8 for 4.88 on a F-550, and XK5 for 5.38 on a F-550. The open differential
will remain standard.

4. F-150/250 new color, Island Blue clearcoat metallic is available for
ordering on F-150/250 Work series, XL, and XLT (n/a on Lariat), it will be
available with Harvest gold or silver accent.

On a non-truck note, we just got our 35th anniversary edition Mustang in and
it is really nice. If you get a chance take a look at one.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Union, IA 50258


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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:57:21 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: FTE 97up - F550 Super Duty Made in Mexico?

Any truth to this rumor that the F550 and higher will be
produced south of the border? And if true, any chance
the lower models like the F250 will join them?

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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:26:39 -0600
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Transmissions

Thanks for that last bit of info on the tranny concerning the 4R100, I
called a dealership today and the parts guy there said the good automatic
hubs were on everything from 94 up and that the E4OD tranny I wanted would
be on all the trucks with an automatic, looks like I'm back to really
looking at parts more closely again.
Ultimately I'd like to find a 1/2 4x4 frame I can use and bolt up a V-10,
this isn't going into a truck, it's an antique 41 Ford Tudor Sedan Deluxe.
I just hate the idea of paying a gazillion bucks for a new vehicle to throw
the body away if I could find a compliation of things and put it together
just a tad bit cheaper...but I'm in the 'information' gathering stage, I
won't be putting down my dollars 'til I have it written in stone or blood or
some such thing. I also considered just driving a truck for a few years
I bought a new one> and then doing the work to the 41. Thanks for all the
help thus far you guys...when she's a reality someday, you guys will be
getting a lot of the credit for her planning.

C.K.
cakid stlmo.com
ca-kid swbell.net


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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:43:25 -0800
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Transmissions

If you haven't chatted with the PERF group, and...

If you also want to make your "sleeper" a "screamer"; toss a few questions
over to the Perf list. They have some "big block" truck pullers over there
that would be more than happy to help you add ponies to that V10 :-).

But on the other hand, I'd start to get concerned about twisting the 1/2 ton
frame into pretzel. That's kind of a lot of engine for the frame. And...
I wouldn't expect you to just drop in the engine unmodified :-).


C. K. Hartline wrote:

> Thanks for that last bit of info on the tranny concerning the 4R100, I
> called a dealership today and the parts guy there said the good automatic
> hubs were on everything from 94 up and that the E4OD tranny I wanted would
> be on all the trucks with an automatic, looks like I'm back to really
> looking at parts more closely again.
> Ultimately I'd like to find a 1/2 4x4 frame I can use and bolt up a V-10,
> this isn't going into a truck, it's an antique 41 Ford Tudor Sedan Deluxe.
> I just hate the idea of paying a gazillion bucks for a new vehicle to throw
> the body away if I could find a compliation of things and put it together
> just a tad bit cheaper...but I'm in the 'information' gathering stage, I
> won't be putting down my dollars 'til I have it written in stone or blood or
> some such thing. I also considered just driving a truck for a few years
> I bought a new one> and then doing the work to the 41. Thanks for all the
> help thus far you guys...when she's a reality someday, you guys will be
> getting a lot of the credit for her planning.
>
> C.K.
> cakid stlmo.com
> ca-kid swbell.net
>
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:41:30 -0600
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Transmissions

Well keep in mind, it's going up under a 41 Ford car, I know it's possible,
it's just a matter of working out the 'truck' parts. I'm almost ready to
just buy a chassis cab and drive it naked til it's paid for and then strip
the cab off like you suggested, but man I'd hate to wait THAT long to begin
work on the car, and in the meantime put tons of miles on the V-10, I mean I
couldn't just buy it and let it sit now could I?... I'll check the
performance chat line and see what the fellas are saying in there. I'm
thrilled Ford is offering so many options these days, but it's getting a bit
confusing. I now know for sure I need the 4R100 tranny to make use of the
V-10, now I guess I need to worry about the right frame too...as always
thanks for the help fellas!

C.K.
cakid stlmo.com
ca-kid swbell.net


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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:31:15 EST
From: LOUISETUL aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Owning a Diesel

In a message dated 3/30/99 6:18:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Matus.Scott.A tci.com writes:

>
> I guess that I must be in a minority when it comes to my vehicles.
>


Scott,

Move over, you are not the only one who keeps vehicles that long. Told
husband when we bought the 97 PSD, he was not to even think about a new truck
till this one had at least 400,000 miles on it. And that was the reason I
wanted the diesel. I know I haven't even broke it in good. Only have 20,000
on it now. This truck is going to last a while.

Louise
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:09:26 -0500
From: "Bill Wood"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Subject: Trailer Life comparison of F250SDPSD/V10

I live 35 miles East of Rochester and would own nothing but a
Power Stroke! You could never load a gas engine like a diesel
and expect it to last that long. Yes, I have owned Ford gas trucks.
I also owned an '86 6.9 , which had over 220,000 on it when I sold it for a
very decent price. Let's see the purchase price of a gas job speard out for
13 years come to an average of $1,100 per year .
The cost of repairs? You better check on the cost of of the
installed replacement gas engine that is needed to keep up with
diesel's life expectancy.
As far as diesel availability, I should be able to get to the next
station,as long as it is within 675 miles of the last one!
If you were used to big trucks, you would worry less about the noise and
more about parking places designed by micro-compact car drivers!
Last weekend, a stub nose, rollback car carrier met an import car
headon and went right up over it. I,d bet those three unfortunate
souls in the car WISHED THEY HAD A BIG, HIGH SHINY PICKUP!
- -----Original Message-----
From: Frank Spor
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Subject: Trailer Life comparison of F250SDPSD/V10


>George...
>
>The North east....Does that include NY, Where the ONLY way to get diesel
>cheaper than gas is to Buy Heating fuel ?
>
>OH that pesky dye....
>
>Here In upstate NY (which is NE of almost everywhere) Diesel is at least
>a dime Higher (when you can get it) Taxes I'm sure, but out of pocket
>just the same..
>
>The other issue that all Have chosen to ignore, is the cost of repairs
>....Down the road. The diesels longevity in a constant run environment
>is without question better.
>
>How many of the "Diesel guys" are gonna want to drive the same pickup
>truck 300,000 miles from now...
>
>But I don't know that the "to the grocery store" environment is good for
>it.
>
>So now we have big high shiny Pickups going clack clack clack, while
>people pick up their cup of coffee....
>
>Now the Towns are going to want to pass Idle time restrictions....
>
>What is next?
>Frank
>
>
>
>
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:20:30 -0800
From: The Hepburn
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 '99SD Rear View Mirror -Reply

GEORGE CROLL wrote:
>
> I'm still wondering why people on this list seem to keep bashing the tow mirrors
> on the super duty. They have both a convex and a flat mirror and are some of the....

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