97up-list-digest Wednesday, February 24 1999 Volume 02 : Number 051



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD
FTE 97up - fan clutch follies
FTE 97up - New Owner/Step Question
Re: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD
FTE 97up - fog lights
Re: FTE 97up - fan clutch follies
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
RE: FTE 97up - fan clutch follies
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD -Reply
FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
FTE 97up - Lifting 99 F250 SD XLT SC SB
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - speed limiter.
FTE 97up - ordered 5in. exhaust for PSD today
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
FTE 97up - Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - speed limiter.
Re: FTE 97up - fan clutch follies
FTE 97up - Re: 99 F250 SuperDuty Diesel - For Sale
FTE 97up - EPA
FTE 97up - Best F-250 V-10 Crew 4x4 Short Box Dealer?
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - speed limiter.
Re: FTE 97up - EPA
Re: FTE 97up - Best F-250 V-10 Crew 4x4 Short Box Dealer?
Re: FTE 97up - Best F-250 V-10 Crew 4x4 Short Box Dealer?
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:09:09 -0500
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD

Anyone out there lifted their SD. currently several aftermarket kits are available including Pro Comp (4" lift with dual
shock option, about 1000) Tuff country ( I think they have a 4" lift for about 600) Superlift (4 and 6" with a multiple
shock option I think) National Spring is making springs but I don't have any idea of what they cost. I have heard great
things about National but I have heard they are really expensive. I even think Rancho might have one. Has anyone
tried any of these lifts and if so how do they ride. I want to get a 4" lift which does not alter my stock ride
substantially and which retains decent steering. I am also interested in who makes wheels which will fit the new SD
trucks as there are not many out there. Does Weld make SD wheels now?

Finally why are there not more 16 inch rims available. 16.5 inch rims are much more common for larger trucks but
they don't have safety beads so you really can't air down with confidence on a 16.5 in wheel. Does anyone know
of a good 16 inch wheel and 35 in tire combination for the SD trucks. I don't want swampers, MT baja belteds or
bogggers on my truck as they wear out too fast but I would like a good looking tire. any suggestions? Looks good
and wears good to boot with respectable off road abilities.

Thanks
George
99 F-250 SD V-10
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:45:13 PST
From: "Jordan Rautiola"
Subject: FTE 97up - fan clutch follies

I'm surprised that I don't see more complaints on the fan clutch
operation on our trucks. The fan clutch is dumb, in that it is not
thermostatic, and hence blows lots of air at all temperatures and at any
rpm below 2000 (this is my experience). Talk about a waste of fuel, as
well as not allowing the coolant in the radiator to get warm (thermostat
lets cold water into a hot block, that can't be good). I think it also
prevents the cab from warming up faster. Does anyone know of a
thermostatic fan (blows air when temp gets hot) that directly replaces
the dumb Ford clutch? Any other solutions (other than installing an
electric)?



______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:42:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Dusty Craig
Subject: FTE 97up - New Owner/Step Question

Hi guys! Just bought my Torch Red/Silver 99 F-150 XLT SC 4X2 in January,
trading in my beloved Paxton-blown 93 Ranger XLT SC 4X4 for him. It is
my first full-sized truck, and I am finding it interesting to drive-and
even more interesting to park! After being used to just whippin' into a
spot without a lot of thought, I now have to rejudge approach angles and
spot size! But I do love this truck.

I actually have two questions. The first is regarding aftermarket steps
or running boards. I'm fairly short and occasionally haul the
neighbourhood kids, plus one of my dogs is getting pretty old. I have
been looking at steps or running boards to add, and wonder if you guys
had any suggestions or comments on what you like. I don't want just the
bar type or the small single step. I really like the looks of the Aero
Tech Premier Super Cab step that has the front mudflap integrated into
the step (mud is a problem around here), but have not seen one in person.
I don't want something obnoxious and/or gaudy looking, just functional
and clean looking.

My second question would be regarding wheels. I want to put (later,
LATER on) 17" wheels on if possible. Does anyone except American Racing
make 17" wheels for the 4X2 with the correct offset in the correct size?
Any insights on a change to 17" wheels?

Thanks for any help!

===
Cheers

Dusty and the Zoo
Aussies, le Papillon, Saddlebreds, Birds and The Offical SIR*
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.tripod.com/~morganriver/intro.html

"All Corvettes are red. The rest are mistakes" John Heinricy, C5 Team
My trucks will always be Fords and my Fords will always be red.
Be the change that you want to see in the world.
- -- M. K. Gandhi



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:50:33 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD

Hi George,

I just dropped-off my '99 / SuperDuty / F-350 / V-10 / 4X4 / SRW / Longbed /
SuperCab / Snowplow Option / Off-Road Option / Tow Option to my dealer with
a set of the Tuff-Country (www.toughcountry.com ) front suspension 3.5" lift
leaf replacement kits. They came by UPS and each spring pack (about 5
leaves each) weighed about 90 lbs.! Very beefy looking, they look similar
to the rear spring pack and have a nice positive arch (instead of the "flat"
arch of the stock front springs). The construction was excellent, rounded
bar ends, Teflon sandwiched between leaves, etc. Also came with a kit to
replace required front-end parts like sway-bar end-links, etc. to keep the
steering geometry straight.

The reason I am having this done is the truck (like all stock SuperDuties)
sits high in the rear (even with a 1,000 pounds in it!), when I connect-up
the 850 pound Fisher snowplow, the front-rear height difference is even
greater.

I should get the truck back today or tomorrow, so I will post the results
and my impression of the changes in ride and handling (if any).

Keith



- -----Original Message-----
From: GEORGE CROLL
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 9:23 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD


>Anyone out there lifted their SD. currently several aftermarket kits are
available including Pro Comp (4" lift with dual
>shock option, about 1000) Tuff country ( I think they have a 4" lift for
about 600) Superlift (4 and 6" with a multiple
>shock option I think) National Spring is making springs but I don't have
any idea of what they cost. I have heard great
>things about National but I have heard they are really expensive. I even
think Rancho might have one. Has anyone
>tried any of these lifts and if so how do they ride. I want to get a 4"
lift which does not alter my stock ride
>substantially and which retains decent steering. I am also interested in
who makes wheels which will fit the new SD
>trucks as there are not many out there. Does Weld make SD wheels now?
>
>Finally why are there not more 16 inch rims available. 16.5 inch rims are
much more common for larger trucks but
>they don't have safety beads so you really can't air down with confidence
on a 16.5 in wheel. Does anyone know
>of a good 16 inch wheel and 35 in tire combination for the SD trucks. I
don't want swampers, MT baja belteds or
>bogggers on my truck as they wear out too fast but I would like a good
looking tire. any suggestions? Looks good
>and wears good to boot with respectable off road abilities.
>
>Thanks
>George
>99 F-250 SD V-10
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>

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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:20:50 EST
From: JudgeR aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - fog lights

I just purchased the fog light kit are they supposed to small rounds lights
?Thanks
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:37:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Gaudenti
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - fan clutch follies

>On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Jordan Rautiola wrote:
>
> I'm surprised that I don't see more complaints on the fan clutch
> operation on our trucks. The fan clutch is dumb, in that it is not
> thermostatic, and hence blows lots of air at all temperatures and at any
> rpm below 2000 (this is my experience). Talk about a waste of fuel, as
> well as not allowing the coolant in the radiator to get warm (thermostat
> lets cold water into a hot block, that can't be good). I think it also
> prevents the cab from warming up faster. Does anyone know of a
> thermostatic fan (blows air when temp gets hot) that directly replaces
> the dumb Ford clutch? Any other solutions (other than installing an
> electric)?

Yes, I agree. That fan sure does do a lot of spinning when it's not
needed. It also makes a big roar on start up.

What's wrong with an electric? I put one on my last car and it worked
fine. I also wired an LED on the dash so I could see when the fan was
running. It rarely went on. Only when stuck in traffic or moving too
slow on a 100 degree day. I bought the highest CFM fan I could find a few
weeks ago and just yesterday bought an adjustable temp control for it.
I'm also going to have a light on the dash as I did before.

Danny

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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:48:30 -0800
From: "Jose Pomposo Jr."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Let me guess, you own a SD right?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd E.
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4


>Ranger
>Pros: Cheaper, smaller, better on gas, easier to maneuver, lots of
>aftermarket available
>Cons: smaller, weaker, one word "plywood", lowest tow rating, smallest back
>seat
>
>F-150
>Pros: Size compromise between Ranger and SD, Mileage compromise between
>same, style(if you don't want that big truck look), turns better than a SD,
>lots of aftermarket available
>Cons: Price is about the same as a SD 250, style(some people hate it), not
>as strongly built as the SD trucks, turns worse than a Ranger
>
>SD F-250
>Pros: Bigger engine options, stronger frame and suspension, bigger
>payload&tow capacity, largest passenger space, very tall, higher resale
>value, three words "lots of plywood", rear disk brakes.
>Cons: large turning diameter, limited aftermarket (right now anyway), very
>tall(too tall for some garages, and you'll definitely need some sort of
>step)
>
>SD F-350
>Pros (in addition to F-250): Dually option, slightly larger payload
>Cons: Stiffer ride than F-250, price difference from F-250 isn't
>justifiable, unless you need the dual wheels or the additional payload.
>
>Bottom lines:
>Rangers are small passenger vehicles that can haul around some stuff.
>F-150s are large passenger vehicles that can haul around even more stuff
>SD 250/350's are small trucks that can haul around passengers and lots of
>stuff
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:22:44 -0600
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - fan clutch follies

Jordan,

The coolant entering the block is always supposed to be relatively cool.
Coolant in the radiator is not supposed to 'get warm'. The coolant gets
warmed in the engine, then cooled in the radiator by convection provided by
blowing the air across with a fan or moving the truck at sufficient speed.
The thermostat (unless they've got a new design) is merely a spring-loaded
valve with a copper plug. It is located at the point where the coolant
exits the engine block, and it only opens when that coolant is hot (around
190 degrees). The thermostat thus allows the engine to warm up to its
operating temperature no matter what the fan is doing.

The point is that if the fan clutch is not properly designed or not
operating properly, your engine will not be damaged. It will, however,
waste fuel as you described. If that is something that concerns you, then
Danny's electric fan system is an excellent idea.

George

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dan Gaudenti [mailto:gaudent qnet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 2:38 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - fan clutch follies


>On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Jordan Rautiola wrote:
>
> I'm surprised that I don't see more complaints on the fan clutch
> operation on our trucks. The fan clutch is dumb, in that it is not
> thermostatic, and hence blows lots of air at all temperatures and at any
> rpm below 2000 (this is my experience). Talk about a waste of fuel, as
> well as not allowing the coolant in the radiator to get warm (thermostat
> lets cold water into a hot block, that can't be good). I think it also
> prevents the cab from warming up faster. Does anyone know of a
> thermostatic fan (blows air when temp gets hot) that directly replaces
> the dumb Ford clutch? Any other solutions (other than installing an
> electric)?

Yes, I agree. That fan sure does do a lot of spinning when it's not
needed. It also makes a big roar on start up.

What's wrong with an electric? I put one on my last car and it worked
fine. I also wired an LED on the dash so I could see when the fan was
running. It rarely went on. Only when stuck in traffic or moving too
slow on a 100 degree day. I bought the highest CFM fan I could find a few
weeks ago and just yesterday bought an adjustable temp control for it.
I'm also going to have a light on the dash as I did before.

Danny

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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:23:23 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Gee, what gave it away? You get 1/2 a bonus point for guessing which one?



>Let me guess, you own a SD right?



>
>>Ranger
>>Pros: Cheaper, smaller, better on gas, easier to maneuver, lots of
>>aftermarket available


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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:38:21 -0500
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD -Reply

Thanks for the info Keith, I am looking forward to your evaluation of the lift.

BTW are you putting on bigger tires and if not how does it look with the stock tires and the 3.5 inch lift. I am
concerned with ride quality because when I lifted my 76 chevy it went from a reasonable ride to a very unforgiving
ride due to the extremly stiff springs in the rough country lift I bought. I would not want a repeat when I lift my SD.
My understanding is that the better lift kits sold today sacrifice very little in ride quality.
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:38:00 -0500
From: psjlelliott juno.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Go for the F150. Cost is not a lot more than the Ranger, and comfort,
due to size and weight, is great. I recently traded a Toyota P/U for a
99 F-150 regular cab short bed with the 4.2L V6 and a manual tranny.
With the 3.08 rear-end (standard), I don't win any drag races, but I'm
getting pretty decent milage (18 MPG in town, and not yet 1000 m.) I
expect mileage to get a little better as everything finishes getting
seated and after I get a tonneau cover on the thing. No need for
extended cab, there's a cavern behind the seat as it is. The Toyota was
O.K., but not enough truck even to load down with camping equipment for
the Scout group I'm involved with. I guess if you were doing some heavy
work or towing, you might want a "super-duty" truck (or if you are a
victim of testosterone poisoning). The F150 will do a lot, but won't
kill you on the light duty work or at the gas pump!

___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:16:14 -0800
From: Kent Tombs
Subject: FTE 97up - Lifting 99 F250 SD XLT SC SB

I lifted my front end a total of 3" when I first bought it in Sept 98.
This leveled the truck. I took it to a spring shop and we added one leaf
(custom cut) and rebent the existing leafs. They now have a positive arc
to them, the ride quality did not change. I am currently running 36"x
12.5"x16" Super Swamper Radials on the stock aluminium rims. I had to
make up some wheel stops to keep the tires from hitting the leafs, this
consisted of drilling into the ends of the present wheel stops, tapping
them and threading in some bolts . The total amount required was only
1/8". This whole leaf spring venture(not incl tires) cost me a grand
total of $225.00 Canadian. Hope this helps.
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:12:20 -0600
From: "Christopher T. Patrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

i agree. i just bought a '98 shortbed f-150 xlt stepside. 4.2 v-6 and 5
speed.
i got the stx package (monochrome paint, and 17" wheels) and the tow
package (3.55 gears, and HD parts.). i needed a cheaper truck, with the
ability to tow 2000 pounds, my boat, every weekend about 10 miles, and
5000 pounds, my jeep and trailer, across the country a few times a year. I
tried this with a S-10, and a ranger, both 6's with tow packages, but they
got ragged out VERY quick with the abuse i put them through. This is my
first new full size, and i can say it tows well, and puts up with my abuse.
it doesnt even feel my boat when towed.. and the jeep is barely noticeable.

BTW, i bought the last '98 off the lot, and have 1500 miles on it! love
this truck.



At 05:38 PM 2/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Go for the F150. Cost is not a lot more than the Ranger, and comfort,
>due to size and weight, is great. I recently traded a Toyota P/U for a
>99 F-150 regular cab short bed with the 4.2L V6 and a manual tranny.
>With the 3.08 rear-end (standard), I don't win any drag races, but I'm
>getting pretty decent milage (18 MPG in town, and not yet 1000 m.) I
>expect mileage to get a little better as everything finishes getting
>seated and after I get a tonneau cover on the thing. No need for
>extended cab, there's a cavern behind the seat as it is. The Toyota was
>O.K., but not enough truck even to load down with camping equipment for
>the Scout group I'm involved with. I guess if you were doing some heavy
>work or towing, you might want a "super-duty" truck (or if you are a
>victim of testosterone poisoning). The F150 will do a lot, but won't
>kill you on the light duty work or at the gas pump!

==========================================
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
CHRIS PATRICK | || \
360 ci ______| _||___\____
Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
BOGGERS *** ***
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:16:36 -0600
From: "Christopher T. Patrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - speed limiter.

ive noticed a percularity. While my '98 has the 5500 rpm rev limiter,
which i hit often in first gear, im having a problem with 5th gear. at 3200
rpm, in fifth, it cuts out. this is particularly annoying, as i drive long
distances on flat highways (across kansas and colorado.) it seems at 98
mph its shuts down.

I got no problem with the rev limiter to keep me from grenading my motor,
but 3200 rpm is a bit low for 5th gear..its still pulling hard... im sure
itll go 115ish at 4000-4500. my tires are rated 130mph+, so i fail to see
the logic here.

does anyone know a quick way to disable the top speed limiter.. in a Jeep,
its a simple matter of removing the sensor on the speedometer cable... but
i dunno on the ford.
==========================================
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
CHRIS PATRICK | || \
360 ci ______| _||___\____
Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
BOGGERS *** ***
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:06:18 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - ordered 5in. exhaust for PSD today

i have ordered 5 in. cat back i believe it is, today. Looking forward to
seeing what kind of quality it is. Also i am very happy with the Redline Syn.
Diesel 15W40 i put in this weekend along with their water wetter and diesel
fuel catalyst(doesnt seem to smoke as much when ya mat it). Also seems
quieter and not as much idle wandering, and turbo seem to spool a bit quicker
and it also runs cooler.

RS
99 F250 PSD/4x4/SC
9sec93cobra
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:52:15 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

In a message dated 99-02-23 18:23:59 EST, you write:


you know a automatic with 4.6 would be better for pulling that 5000lbs.

RS

i agree. i just bought a '98 shortbed f-150 xlt stepside. 4.2 v-6 and 5
speed.
i got the stx package (monochrome paint, and 17" wheels) and the tow
package (3.55 gears, and HD parts.). i needed a cheaper truck, with the
ability to tow 2000 pounds, my boat, every weekend about 10 miles, and
5000 pounds, my jeep and trailer, across the country a few times a year. I
tried this with a S-10, and a ranger, both 6's with tow packages, but they
got ragged out VERY quick with the abuse i put them through. This is my
first new full size, and i can say it tows well, and puts up with my abuse.
it doesnt even feel my boat when towed.. and the jeep is barely noticeable.

BTW, i bought the last '98 off the lot, and have 1500 miles on it! love
this truck.

>>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:37:29 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD -Reply

I hope to get the truck back tomorrow. The new springs really looked
well-made so hopefully they won't result in a "go-kart" suspension. In
addition to the 3.5" lift (which, by the way, is not a huge amount) I am
installing all new shocks. With the lift you have to install new front
shocks because of the new length, so I decided to put new ones on the back
also. I am not trying to make it look like Bigfoot (although that would be
fun!!), just level it out a little, which the 3.5" should do perfectly
(hopefully). Have not considered new wheels and tires yet because I usually
try to get some wear on the originals so I feel like I got my money's worth!
Eventually, I do plan to put bigger (taller and a little wider) tires on,
but the current wheels are OK. The only change I might do in the interim is
try to find some nice chrome lug-nuts like you see on the front of new
and/or custom tractor-trailer rigs. I am not really fond of the
plastic-looking "hubcap" and prefer the look of shiny lugs contrasted by
black axle hubs.

Keith


- -----Original Message-----
From: GEORGE CROLL
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Lifting the F-250 SD -Reply


>Thanks for the info Keith, I am looking forward to your evaluation of the
lift.
>
>BTW are you putting on bigger tires and if not how does it look with the
stock tires and the 3.5 inch lift. I am
>concerned with ride quality because when I lifted my 76 chevy it went from
a reasonable ride to a very unforgiving
>ride due to the extremly stiff springs in the rough country lift I bought.
I would not want a repeat when I lift my SD.
>My understanding is that the better lift kits sold today sacrifice very
little in ride quality.
>George Croll
>EPA-OAR-ARD
>(202)564-0162
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:45:58 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

I have noticed that most people that go from a small compact pickup or SUV
(Toyota 4-Runner, etc.) to a full size end up much happier with the extra
room, the secure feeling and the added carrying capabilities. The only
thing everyone notices very quickly is that "U" turns, quick "parrallel"
parking manuvers and underground garages take on a whole new challanging
dimention! However, I have not yet heard anyone say that these new
challanges or the somewhat (usually) decreased gas mileage and extra workout
washing & waxing outweighs the positives of full-size. Everything else
being equal, I think most people are much more happy with the bigger
vehicles.

Keith

- -----Original Message-----
From: Christopher T. Patrick
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4


>i agree. i just bought a '98 shortbed f-150 xlt stepside. 4.2 v-6 and 5
>speed.
>i got the stx package (monochrome paint, and 17" wheels) and the tow
>package (3.55 gears, and HD parts.). i needed a cheaper truck, with the
>ability to tow 2000 pounds, my boat, every weekend about 10 miles, and
>5000 pounds, my jeep and trailer, across the country a few times a year. I
>tried this with a S-10, and a ranger, both 6's with tow packages, but they
>got ragged out VERY quick with the abuse i put them through. This is my
>first new full size, and i can say it tows well, and puts up with my abuse.
>it doesnt even feel my boat when towed.. and the jeep is barely noticeable.
>
>BTW, i bought the last '98 off the lot, and have 1500 miles on it! love
>this truck.
>
>
>
>At 05:38 PM 2/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>Go for the F150. Cost is not a lot more than the Ranger, and comfort,
>>due to size and weight, is great. I recently traded a Toyota P/U for a
>>99 F-150 regular cab short bed with the 4.2L V6 and a manual tranny.
>>With the 3.08 rear-end (standard), I don't win any drag races, but I'm
>>getting pretty decent milage (18 MPG in town, and not yet 1000 m.) I
>>expect mileage to get a little better as everything finishes getting
>>seated and after I get a tonneau cover on the thing. No need for
>>extended cab, there's a cavern behind the seat as it is. The Toyota was
>>O.K., but not enough truck even to load down with camping equipment for
>>the Scout group I'm involved with. I guess if you were doing some heavy
>>work or towing, you might want a "super-duty" truck (or if you are a
>>victim of testosterone poisoning). The F150 will do a lot, but won't
>>kill you on the light duty work or at the gas pump!
>
>==========================================
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
>CHRIS PATRICK | || \
>360 ci ______| _||___\____
>Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
>SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
>4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
>Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
>35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
>BOGGERS *** ***
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:50:02 -0600
From: "Randy Collins"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

michael:

i appreciate your opinion, but why do you feel the extended cab is
worthless on the rangers? i realize they're not terrible useful for
adult-size passengers, but what about transporting things like groceries
and hobby supplies/equipment? i have a 98 extended cab and love it,
especially compared to my 94 regular cab ranger. i think it gives you a
littler more room to move your seat back and maybe recline a little if
that's your preference. the longer wheel base also gives you a little
better ride. i'm not sure of the figures, because i didn't even look at the
regular cabs, but for me it's worth it.

as for the ac smell, is this only on the 99's? i know 4 people who own 98
rangers rangers and have no smell. i can only speak for my cd player, but
the cd's are not excessively hot coming out of the player. most
aftermarkets i have dealt with produce more heat than what i am now
experiencing. not saying that the sound systems they put in these vehicles
are great, but they are fairly adequate.

to the guy comparing the 3 trucks, keep in mind the ranger is a very light
duty truck. you can put it under a load, as i have, but don't expect
superior performance. if you are planning to do heavy towing on a regular
basis, the f150 may be adequate, but the sd would probably impress you
more.

just mt $.02 worth.

ran

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:35:29 -0800
> From: "Michael D. Sheridan"
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
>
> JJ Thomas wrote:
> >
> > I knew about the Ranger/Mazda thing. They look too similar to miss
it.
>
> Folks:
>
> It would be well for the list to know that the Ranger/Mazda
> 1999 trucks in REGULAR CAB will NOT mount any of the new well
> known TOPPERS due to the clever way Ford recessed the bed!
>
> If you want a new topper on a Ranger/Mazda REGULAR CAB you are
> just about out of luck unless you want it to hang over the
> edge of the bed a couple inches on each side.
>
> Now on the other side of the coin if you want to pay a bundle
> extra for the extended cab which just makes the truck weigh more
> and is almost worthless you can get a topper on those as
> the bed is flush with the cab.
>
> Really cute idea Mr. Ford to push your extended cab and make
> more MONEY!
>
> Oh and by the way the air conditioning system in them has a
> mildew smell about it after about 50 miles and so far mine
> has not gone away in the four months I have had it!
>
> In closing I might mention that the CDs that come out of
> the CD radio are hot enough to warm your hands on on a cold
> day so you might keep that in mind too.
>
> Michael


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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:55:02 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - speed limiter.

I believe some of the after market chips you can plug into your computer
wiring harness (takes just 20 minutes or so) will not only add a little
"kick" but re-set the speed limiter to a higher number (or remove it
altogether). I like to got fast also, and I do so when it is appropriate
(wide open 4-lane highway Sunday morning with clear view for miles, no
access roads (e.g., the Dulles Access Road in Virginia 15 years ago).
However, I found that at the handling an Expy starts to deteriorate at about
90 MPH (I have had mine up to 100 but I was going downhill a little but I
did not feel the speed limiter kick in). Remember, the energy received in a
crash increases as the [square] of velocity (a 60 MPH crash gives you 4
times the "pain" of a 30 MPH crash, everything else being equal).

Keith


- -----Original Message-----
From: Christopher T. Patrick
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - speed limiter.


>
>ive noticed a percularity. While my '98 has the 5500 rpm rev limiter,
>which i hit often in first gear, im having a problem with 5th gear. at 3200
>rpm, in fifth, it cuts out. this is particularly annoying, as i drive long
>distances on flat highways (across kansas and colorado.) it seems at 98
>mph its shuts down.
>
>I got no problem with the rev limiter to keep me from grenading my motor,
>but 3200 rpm is a bit low for 5th gear..its still pulling hard... im sure
>itll go 115ish at 4000-4500. my tires are rated 130mph+, so i fail to see
>the logic here.
>
>does anyone know a quick way to disable the top speed limiter.. in a Jeep,
>its a simple matter of removing the sensor on the speedometer cable... but
>i dunno on the ford.
>==========================================
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
>CHRIS PATRICK | || \
>360 ci ______| _||___\____
>Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
>SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
>4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
>Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
>35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
>BOGGERS *** ***
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:57:41 GMT
From: alannorthstar mindspring.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - fan clutch follies

On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:45:13 PST, you wrote:

:I'm surprised that I don't see more complaints on the fan clutch=20
:operation on our trucks. The fan clutch is dumb, in that it is not=20
:thermostatic, and hence blows lots of air at all temperatures and at any=
=20
:rpm below 2000 (this is my experience). Talk about a waste of fuel, as=20
:well as not allowing the coolant in the radiator to get warm (thermostat=
=20
:lets cold water into a hot block, that can't be good). I think it also=20
:prevents the cab from warming up faster. Does anyone know of a=20
:thermostatic fan (blows air when temp gets hot) that directly replaces=20
:the dumb Ford clutch? Any other solutions (other than installing an=20
:electric)?
:
My previous vehicle (a car) had an electric cooling fan,
thermostatically controlled. It worked fine, and didn't run much
unless I was stopped with the engine running on a hot day. (It
always ran with the AC.)

That sounds pretty decent to me.

The Ford fan, does change its state with temperature, however.
When the temp goes up, the fluid coupling gels up so the fan runs
pretty much at the speed it's pulley is being driven at. When
the fluid is cool, it stays thinner, so the fan turns at a much
slower speed, relative to it's pulley.

It isn't so dumb, but it isn't any too smart, either!

Later,
Alan
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:17:53 -0600
From: "Bud Feuless & Miki Magara"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 99 F250 SuperDuty Diesel - For Sale

You've been trying to sell that F-250 for some time... I'm surprised!

I've sold a number of vehicles and boats using the people at Auto Trader and
know people who have advertised in papers for a year and then sold in a week
after advertising there. I tried their on-line service at traderonline.com
(also tried carpoint.com and any number of others on-line), but found
response rates to be very low compared to the real thing. Most used
vehicles on-line seem to be from large lots and selection and interest seems
limited. Suggest you get a picture and put your truck on the cover of
Pickup Trader. They have a rate where you can advertise until you sell, as
long as you drop your price by 5% every two weeks until you sell.

Regards, Bud


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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:57:57 -0600
From: "Bud Feuless & Miki Magara"
Subject: FTE 97up - EPA

Hi guys & gals;

Well, I'm getting out the old asbestos turbo exhaust blanket to fend off the
flames, but I can't resist mentioning the following.

A few folks have been posting about the EPA and have made various comments
regarding the eco-Nazis forcing "tin cans" on the rest of us and how
terrible this will all be for truck enthusiasts like us. I certainly
understand where these folks are coming from, having a near 10000# trailer
to tow myself, but there is another side to this.

I live in Harris County. As some of you may know, we have the highest
percentage of airborne carcinogens of any county in the U.S. In Houston,
Pasadena, and Texas City, resident families play host to rare forms of
brain, larynx, and pancreatic cancer that occur nowhere else in the world
today. It's fairly obvious that many of us hope for a future for our
children that provides them an environment that is better than the one we
ourselves inherited. One of the biggest reasons for this, IMHO, is
so-called "grandfather" clauses awarded to big businesses and special
interest groups, to allow them to continue to pollute at historical levels.
The need to pander to these special interest groups continues to be one of
the worst stumbling blocks to the improvements that individual citizens and
families consistently ask for in our environment (again, IMHO).

While our use of recreational and commercial trucks is probably not anywhere
near the primary cause for this problem, some comments I've seen here seem
to be heading in the direction of our becoming just another special interest
group lobbying the EPA for our special cause and contributing to
governmental inaction. We often blame government for our problems, while
the policy makers often find themselves besieged from every side by those of
us crying foul when an action they attempt impacts the special interest that
is near and dear to our own heart. "We have found the enemy, and he is us"
[Pogo], so to say .

Also, note that, in the marine industry, similar outcry was recently heard
from outboard engine manufacturers and users regarding new regulations.
What has actually resulted is a new era of competition between manufacturers
to produce more efficient and clean engines at low cost. We now have
engines that can run twice as far on the same amount of gas and do so
without harming the water we enjoy. Costs are very competitive and hardly
impact the sticker on a new boat. I cannot help but suspect, especially as
some of these very technologies relate to improvements in direct fuel
injection that could be applied to non-marine engines, that continued EPA
pressure to improve CAFE emissions will only force Detroit to come out with
better engines. Note the Cummins 24 valve, 6 cylinder, which may be only
the first stumbling step in this direction, I'm waiting with my toes crossed
to see how Ford responds... .

Hey, I lust after Super Duties as much as the next guy (and almost as much
as my wife...), but I'm ready to do my part and knuckle under and make the
personal sacrifices that I have to, so that we can at least say we gave a
better place to our kids than the one we got. Before I criticize the EPA or
ask them to repent in their attempts to regulate something that falls in my
back yard, I will remind myself that they are me and they need my support to
make it all work. Maybe those of us who have really serious concerns and
needs could help devise some alternatives, ways the EPA could slow the trend
in this country for every Dilbert to drive a Super Duty to work in the
morning, while still allowing those who really need them to use them.
Anybody...?

Regards, Bud


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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:32:51 -0700
From: mjsieler
Subject: FTE 97up - Best F-250 V-10 Crew 4x4 Short Box Dealer?

I have decided that a new (or very slightly used) F250 V-10 Crew 4x4
Short Box is my next vehicle of choice. I am looking for a FORD dealer
that will work with me over the phone or the web and deliver as promised
for a competitive price. I hope to make my purchase sometime before 1999
runs out.

A Dodge loving friend told me that Dave Smith Motors in Kellogg, ID will
beat any Dodge dealer's price nationwide. Many folks in town who can't
get a Boise dealer to deal simply use these guys. In fact, these guys
recommend on their web site for their customer's to fly into town to be
picked and sent home that day in a new rig as ordered. I am assuming
that a FORD dealer of this genre is somewhere to be found.

With some of the hurt happening in the farmlands there has got to be a
dealer willing to be extra competitive. I figure I can fly wherever in
the contiguous 48 states and drive the unit home. Any recommendations?
- --
MjS

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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:34:18 -0800
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

>> ...or if you are a victim of testosterone poisoning.

I like that. Is there a twelve step program? I admitted that I am
powerless over testosterone...

>> No need for extended cab, there's a cavern
>> behind the seat as it is.

I had forgotten about that. All I need to make it work is a sliding rear
window. I may go that route. I've had two trucks that were reg cab, and I
never found it that inconvenient. Gives me a place to store my tools and a
72 cu ft garbage can to boot.

The only thing I dislike about the non-Super Duty truck is that dang convex
right hand mirror. And I have it to be too small. But a visit to a local
truck stop, a pair of "West Coast" mirrors and that problem will be fixed.
Call it my interpretation of a 150 looking like a 350.

I think I would go with the standard tranny and 3.55 differentials, along
with the 4.6L V8. A/C and Cruise Control are mandatory, the rest nice to
haves. I'll have to think about that.

- -Julian

At 17:38 02/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Go for the F150. Cost is not a lot more than the Ranger, and comfort,
>due to size and weight, is great. I recently traded a Toyota P/U for a
>99 F-150 regular cab short bed with the 4.2L V6 and a manual tranny.
>With the 3.08 rear-end (standard), I don't win any drag races, but I'm
>getting pretty decent milage (18 MPG in town, and not yet 1000 m.) I
>expect mileage to get a little better as everything finishes getting
>seated and after I get a tonneau cover on the thing. No need for
>extended cab, there's a cavern behind the seat as it is. The Toyota was
>O.K., but not enough truck even to load down with camping equipment for
>the Scout group I'm involved with. I guess if you were doing some heavy
>work or towing, you might want a "super-duty" truck (or if you are a
>victim of testosterone poisoning). The F150 will do a lot, but won't
>kill you on the light duty work or at the gas pump!
>
>___________________________________________________________________

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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:54:10 -0800
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

I have run several CD's through my 98 Ranger's CD player. I have found
them very warm, but not what I consider hot. I have on occasion noticed a
strange order when I first fire up the A/C after it has not been used for
awhile, but once the air gets moving, there is no more smell. I have
noticed this "odor" on several different Fords. It seems to go away once
the air gets moving.

Thanks for you $.02

- -Julian

At 20:50 02/23/99 -0600, you wrote:
>michael:
==========/snip/==========
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:14:07 -0500
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - speed limiter.

"Christopher T. Patrick" wrote:
>
> ive noticed a percularity. While my '98 has the 5500 rpm rev limiter,
> which i hit often in first gear, im having a problem with 5th gear. at 3200
> rpm, in fifth, it cuts out. this is particularly annoying, as i drive long
> distances on flat highways (across kansas and colorado.) it seems at 98
> mph its shuts down.
>
> I got no problem with the rev limiter to keep me from grenading my motor,
> but 3200 rpm is a bit low for 5th gear..its still pulling hard... im sure
> itll go 115ish at 4000-4500. my tires are rated 130mph+, so i fail to see
> the logic here.
>
> does anyone know a quick way to disable the top speed limiter.. in a Jeep,
> its a simple matter of removing the sensor on the speedometer cable... but
> i dunno on the ford.
> ==========================================
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
> CHRIS PATRICK | || \
> 360 ci ______| _||___\____
> Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
> SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
> 4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
> Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
> 35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
> BOGGERS *** ***
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Christopher,

I had Superchips program a chip to up the revlimiter to
6500 rpm and remove the speed limiter. If you unplug the
speedo wires your cruise control will not work. You could
change the speedo gear to fool the computer into thinking it
was going slower.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:35:32 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - EPA

I agree with many of your statements. I have worked on cleaning SuperFund
and Massachusetts "21E" disposal sites (yes, even the W.R. Grace site that
formed the basis for the movie). I certainly believe I am doing my part.
However, in risk analysis you often find that what you think is going to
help, hurts. For example, what is better: losing a loved one to cancer or
a car accident. Obviously "none of the above" is the answer. During the
"Gas" crisis, the auto companies put out such winners as the Ford Pinto and
the Chrysler "K" car. Many risk assessors believe as many or more more
people died and were injured severely due to the poor safety of these
vehicle than died from excess inhalation-induced cancer risk. What a lot of
people do not realize is the most potent carcinogens are not necessarily
pollution from automobiles but the effects of the natural physical and
chemical nature of the world. A good example is ultraviolet light and
malignant melanona, another is radon gas, calculated to cause more lung
cancer than anything except for cigarette smoking. Furthermore, even in a
perfectly sterile world, a portion of the population will get cancer due to
the natural (background) rate of mutations and normal physical effects of
the body dealing with elements naturally occurring in the soil (for example,
arsenic is found in many places to be naturally elevated above levels that
result in water and food concentrations suspected of increased bladder
cancer.

I have no problem with leaving a clean environment for my son and daughter,
but if I make sacrifices, I want them to be applicable and effective, not
just trade-off one hazard (e.g., carbon monoxide emissions) for another
(more crushable cars).

The problem with the environmental regulations is that they often throw out
the baby with the bathwater. For example, to solve the problem of
ozone-depleting chemicals the EPA basically banned a whole class of
chemicals for just about any use, in fact, some fringe groups are lobbying
EPA to ban any compound with a chlorine atom in it (many medicines and
useful industrial compounds have chlorine moieties). Overreaction based on
politics, rather than science, oftens results in decisions that remove our
freedoms without providing the corresponding benefit to everyone.


Keith





- -----Original Message-----




From: Bud Feuless & Miki Magara
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 10:25 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - EPA


>Hi guys & gals;
>
>Well, I'm getting out the old asbestos turbo exhaust blanket to fend off
the
>flames, but I can't resist mentioning the following.
>
>A few folks have been posting about the EPA and have made various comments
>regarding the eco-Nazis forcing "tin cans" on the rest of us and how
>terrible this will all be for truck enthusiasts like us. I certainly
>understand where these folks are coming from, having a near 10000# trailer
>to tow myself, but there is another side to this.
>
>I live in Harris County. As some of you may know, we have the highest
>percentage of airborne carcinogens of any county in the U.S. In Houston,
>Pasadena, and Texas City, resident families play host to rare forms of
>brain, larynx, and pancreatic cancer that occur nowhere else in the world
>today. It's fairly obvious that many of us hope for a future for our
>children that provides them an environment that is better than the one we
>ourselves inherited. One of the biggest reasons for this, IMHO, is
>so-called "grandfather" clauses awarded to big businesses and special
>interest groups, to allow them to continue to pollute at historical levels.
>The need to pander to these special interest groups continues to be one of
>the worst stumbling blocks to the improvements that individual citizens and
>families consistently ask for in our environment (again, IMHO).
>
>While our use of recreational and commercial trucks is probably not
anywhere
>near the primary cause for this problem, some comments I've seen here seem
>to be heading in the direction of our becoming just another special
interest
>group lobbying the EPA for our special cause and contributing to
>governmental inaction. We often blame government for our problems, while
>the policy makers often find themselves besieged from every side by those
of
>us crying foul when an action they attempt impacts the special interest
that
>is near and dear to our own heart. "We have found the enemy, and he is us"
>[Pogo], so to say .
>
>Also, note that, in the marine industry, similar outcry was recently heard
>from outboard engine manufacturers and users regarding new regulations.
>What has actually resulted is a new era of competition between
manufacturers
>to produce more efficient and clean engines at low cost. We now have
>engines that can run twice as far on the same amount of gas and do so
>without harming the water we enjoy. Costs are very competitive and hardly
>impact the sticker on a new boat. I cannot help but suspect, especially as
>some of these very technologies relate to improvements in direct fuel
>injection that could be applied to non-marine engines, that continued EPA
>pressure to improve CAFE emissions will only force Detroit to come out with
>better engines. Note the Cummins 24 valve, 6 cylinder, which may be only
>the first stumbling step in this direction, I'm waiting with my toes
crossed
>to see how Ford responds... .
>
>Hey, I lust after Super Duties as much as the next guy (and almost as much
>as my wife...), but I'm ready to do my part and knuckle under and make the
>personal sacrifices that I have to, so that we can at least say we gave a
>better place to our kids than the one we got. Before I criticize the EPA
or
>ask them to repent in their attempts to regulate something that falls in my
>back yard, I will remind myself that they are me and they need my support
to
>make it all work. Maybe those of us who have really serious concerns and
>needs could help devise some alternatives, ways the EPA could slow the
trend
>in this country for every Dilbert to drive a Super Duty to work in the
>morning, while still allowing those who really need them to use them.
>Anybody...?
>
>Regards, Bud
>
>
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>

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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:22:34 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Best F-250 V-10 Crew 4x4 Short Box Dealer?

In a message dated 99-02-23 22:36:42 EST, you write:


i almost went to get one in N dakota or S Dakota, i cant remember the name of
the town, but a friend of mines relatives lives there and told me about it. (
I will find out) They own a few dealerships in the area and the guy was really
nice that i talked to and was giving a great price, i almost wish i would have
gone to get it. Also if you are in the South, try a couple of these, Bartow
Ford (Bartow, FL) Bondys Ford (Dothan, AL) they always have a good selection
due to the agriculture population in those areas.

RS
99 F250SD XLT/PSD/SC/4x4
9sec93cobra


I have decided that a new (or very slightly used) F250 V-10 Crew 4x4
Short Box is my next vehicle of choice. I am looking for a FORD dealer
that will work with me over the phone or the web and deliver as promised
for a competitive price. I hope to make my purchase sometime before 1999
runs out.

A Dodge loving friend told me that Dave Smith Motors in Kellogg, ID will
beat any Dodge dealer's price nationwide. Many folks in town who can't
get a Boise dealer to deal simply use these guys. In fact, these guys
recommend on their web site for their customer's to fly into town to be
picked and sent home that day in a new rig as ordered. I am assuming
that a FORD dealer of this genre is somewhere to be found.

With some of the hurt happening in the farmlands there has got to be a
dealer willing to be extra competitive. I figure I can fly wherever in
the contiguous 48 states and drive the unit home. Any recommendations?
--
MjS
>>
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:39:14 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Best F-250 V-10 Crew 4x4 Short Box Dealer?

I bought my F-250 SD from Kern's Ford in Ohio. I got it at invoice, and did
the whole thing over the phone. They have some fly-out, drop shipment, and
meet you half way options of getting your vehicle. They've sold to people
as far away as Alaska. I found them on the internet, here's the site:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.usauto.com/fordtrucks7/SuperCab.htm

or call 1-888-8DUALLY

I recommend them, because I hate the whole auto purchase process, and was
being dicked around by Auto-by-tel dealers locally, when I found this place.
It was a completely smooth and simple transaction. Definitely the best auto
purchase experience of my life.

>
>
> I have decided that a new (or very slightly used) F250 V-10 Crew 4x4
> Short Box is my next vehicle of choice. I am looking for a FORD dealer
> that will work with me over the phone or the web and deliver as promised
> for a competitive price. I hope to make my purchase sometime before 1999
> runs out.
>
> A Dodge loving friend told me that Dave Smith Motors in Kellogg, ID will
> beat any Dodge dealer's price nationwide. Many folks in town who can't
> get a Boise dealer to deal simply use these guys. In fact, these guys
> recommend on their web site for their customer's to fly into town to be
> picked and sent home that day in a new rig as ordered. I am assuming
> that a FORD dealer of this genre is somewhere to be found.
>
> With some of the hurt happening in the farmlands there has got to be a
> dealer willing to be extra competitive. I figure I can fly wherever in
> the contiguous 48 states and drive the unit home. Any recommendations?
> --
> MjS
> >>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:21:36 -0600 (CST)
From: "Douglas R. Floyd"
....


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