97up-list-digest Tuesday, February 23 1999 Volume 02 : Number 050



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - Re: Brake line recall
Re: FTE 97up - Shift points change after alarm install -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Dealer Allocation - Top Secret?
FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - allotment for 99psd -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
FTE 97up - RE: Hot CD
FTE 97up - 99 F250 SuperDuty Diesel - For Sale
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:49:01 -0500
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Brake line recall

My 99 SD F-350, 4x4 DRW Chassis cab, was not included in the brake
line/shield recall. It was built in May & does not have the shield.
Nearly identical unit just delivered to a friend has the shield.
Lee Haefele
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:41:24 -0500
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Shift points change after alarm install -Reply

Might also consider that the manual overdirve disconnect on the automatic is located on the shift lever. There is a
little light which indicates that the OD is off. Check to see if the light comes on and off when you push the button on
the end of the shift lever. If the "off" light does not come on it is a sure indication that the alarm people probably
screwed up your wiring. Also be sure to try this at highway speed. The OD button should cause a shift which
should be obvious in terms of RPM's.
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:35:29 -0800
From: "Michael D. Sheridan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

JJ Thomas wrote:
>
> I knew about the Ranger/Mazda thing. They look too similar to miss it.

Folks:

It would be well for the list to know that the Ranger/Mazda
1999 trucks in REGULAR CAB will NOT mount any of the new well
known TOPPERS due to the clever way Ford recessed the bed!

If you want a new topper on a Ranger/Mazda REGULAR CAB you are
just about out of luck unless you want it to hang over the
edge of the bed a couple inches on each side.

Now on the other side of the coin if you want to pay a bundle
extra for the extended cab which just makes the truck weigh more
and is almost worthless you can get a topper on those as
the bed is flush with the cab.

Really cute idea Mr. Ford to push your extended cab and make
more MONEY!

Oh and by the way the air conditioning system in them has a
mildew smell about it after about 50 miles and so far mine
has not gone away in the four months I have had it!

In closing I might mention that the CDs that come out of
the CD radio are hot enough to warm your hands on on a cold
day so you might keep that in mind too.

Michael
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:01:27 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealer Allocation - Top Secret?

Yes, $2000 "minimum" over invoice! After my dealer sold my ordered truck to
someone else I went looking for another dealer. Found a Super Duty Lariat PSD,
in the next town that the offered $1000 over invoice and the dealer said no
deal.
He would take no less than $2000. I walked. But every other dealer was the same.

By-the-way, Nathan, I heard Friday from the dealer "who sold my ordered truck".
He tells me I'm the first in line of last week's allocations. Although he didn't
have any
proof to show me its been scheduled? But that word he said should be today from
his
"district" somebody.

I took the opportunity to make a change in the engine option: I changed from the
V10
to the Power Stroke Diesel. I wanted this all along - but couldn't afford the
$4K price
tag. However, the one positive thing that came from the long wait was that I
saved the
extra money needed for the PSD. I also test drove a PSD on the "rebound" from
the
one that got away, and loved it.


Union Auto wrote:

> You could ask to see some DORA's of other customers orders. They'd have the
> date that the order was placed and The dealer should be able to look up on
> their computer the date that the truck should be arriving. Dealers
> seriously are selling for $2000 over invoice? This sounds crazy on an
> outright deal.
>
> Nathan Bernard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Abraham
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:22 AM
> Subject: FTE 97up - Dealer Allocation - Top Secret?
>
> >When shopping around for a new Super Duty, how does one know
> >the dealership's current "allocation"? This past weekend I stopped or
> >called several dealerships and all claimed a greater allocation of Super
> >Duty's than the other dealership.
> >
> >Can you take their word on this? Before placing an order can a customer
> >ask to see some proof to backup their bagging? I mean say if you can get
> >the same deal over invoice, $2000 off the lot or $200 ordered, from several
> >dealers. If I choose to order, the deciding factor would have to be the
> dealer's
> >
> >allocation - how soon will it be built.
> >
> >Charles.
> >
> >
>
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:37:21 -0800
From: "Kirk Werner"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

I think the dealer's willingness to give you MSRP credit toward another
vehicle sounds fair and reasonable, but I sure wouldn't pay a penny for each
mile you drove it...the thing is a lemon- the dealer has proven to you that
it can't be fixed... If you can avoid arbitration with Ford, do so...but
don't let the dealer swindle any extra money out of you.

This happened to me once, and I ended up paying a sum for the number of
miles onteh truck. An attorney later told me I shouldn't have had to pay
anything. Too late for me...maybe not for you.

Good luck

- ----------


> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:49:33 -0800
> From: JJ Thomas
> Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
>

>
> The reason for getting rid of the Ranger is that upon my return from
> Phoenix, it spent 45 days in the Ford shop. They can replicate the
> problem, but they cannot fix it. They have rebuilt the transmission,
> replaced the drive shaft, replaced the transmission, replace the rear
> differential, reprogrammed the computer and run more diagnostics on it than
> I knew existed. Oh yeah, the problem is that the Ranger lurches when I
> lightly accelerate and decelerate. It acts as though something in the
> drive train is shifting. I am not heavy footed driver and I take good care
> of my vehicles. The dealer has already agreed to replacing the Ranger and
> is willing to go with a different truck, or Ford vehicle, if I want to pay
> the MSRP difference between my Ranger and the other vehicle. I think that
> is being fair. By switching it out this way I also pay taxes on just the
> difference, which is about 8.5%. The MSRP on Ranger was 22,500. If I get
> a SD for 30,000, I pay 7,500 plus $.16 a mile for my use. About $3000. So
> I pay 10,500 out of my pocket and pay taxes on the $7,500 difference.
> Verses paying taxes on $30,000 if I trade it in, or buy new.
>
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:38:35 -0800
From: "Kirk Werner"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

I think the dealer's willingness to give you MSRP credit toward another
vehicle sounds fair and reasonable, but I sure wouldn't pay a penny for each
mile you've driven it...the thing is a lemon- the Ford shop has proven to
you that it can't be fixed... If you can avoid arbitration with Ford, do
so...but don't let the dealer swindle any extra money out of you.

This happened to me once (though not with a Ford product), and I ended up
paying a sum for the number of miles on the truck. An attorney later told
me I shouldn't have had to pay anything. Too late for me...maybe not for
you.

Good luck

- ----------


> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:49:33 -0800
> From: JJ Thomas
> Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4
>

>
> The reason for getting rid of the Ranger is that upon my return from
> Phoenix, it spent 45 days in the Ford shop. They can replicate the
> problem, but they cannot fix it. They have rebuilt the transmission,
> replaced the drive shaft, replaced the transmission, replace the rear
> differential, reprogrammed the computer and run more diagnostics on it than
> I knew existed. Oh yeah, the problem is that the Ranger lurches when I
> lightly accelerate and decelerate. It acts as though something in the
> drive train is shifting. I am not heavy footed driver and I take good care
> of my vehicles. The dealer has already agreed to replacing the Ranger and
> is willing to go with a different truck, or Ford vehicle, if I want to pay
> the MSRP difference between my Ranger and the other vehicle. I think that
> is being fair. By switching it out this way I also pay taxes on just the
> difference, which is about 8.5%. The MSRP on Ranger was 22,500. If I get
> a SD for 30,000, I pay 7,500 plus $.16 a mile for my use. About $3000. So
> I pay 10,500 out of my pocket and pay taxes on the $7,500 difference.
> Verses paying taxes on $30,000 if I trade it in, or buy new.
>
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:14:01 -0800
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

By law, the dealer is entitled to an offset for use of $.16 per mile. I
really don't have a problem with it. I have put about 22,000 miles on the
truck. I won't take it on another long trip, but I does okay for grocery
shopping.

This actually my second time through a Washington State Lemon Law claim.
The first was with GMC. They threw an attitude, I threw a lawsuit. The
got their truck, I got a check.

Everybody at the Ford dealership agrees that the truck is a lemon. So does
the Zone Manager. Ford has been somewhat cooperative. The first deal fell
apart - then my apartment roof sprung a leak... They are just waiting for
me to put the next deal together. I just need to figure out what I want
to do. Get another Ranger, or go with a full size.

I did talk to my lawyer when I started all this. Everything is pretty much
going as it should. He will also get the final paperwork before I sign it.

I think my next step is to test drive some trucks and go from there

- -Julian

At 09:38 02/22/99 -0800, you wrote:
>I think the dealer's willingness to give you MSRP credit toward another
>vehicle sounds fair and reasonable, but I sure wouldn't pay a penny for each
>mile you've driven it...the thing is a lemon- the Ford shop has proven to
>you that it can't be fixed... If you can avoid arbitration with Ford, do
>so...but don't let the dealer swindle any extra money out of you.
>
>This happened to me once (though not with a Ford product), and I ended up
>paying a sum for the number of miles on the truck. An attorney later told
>me I shouldn't have had to pay anything. Too late for me...maybe not for
>you.
>
>Good luck
>
>----------
>
>

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:01:09 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - allotment for 99psd -Reply

George,

Most lending institutions will better another's rates by a quarter point - with
a bottom-line that's usually much lower than their starting rate. My credit
union started at 7.75%, with a bottom of 6.50%. To qualify for the lowest
rate I had to show evidence that someone out there had it just a little higher.
I found an Illinois' bank, Bank Plus, over the internet offering 6.90%. So I
printed off a copy of their Loan Rates page and faxed it over to my CU. It
was that easy. My approved credit line is now locked at 6.65%.

Charles.

GEORGE CROLL wrote:

> Going shopping now for best
> financing, would like to hear about best deals people have gotten on
> interest or leases.
>
> financing on the net. got 7.44% from Nations Bank on the web only, zero down 100% financing on new. Went into
> my local branch and they could only get 8.2 or so. The site is called car-finance.com. I was approved in about 2
> days or less. Good job on the order. Being paitent pays off in green.
> //ck
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> George Croll
> EPA-OAR-ARD
> (202)564-0162
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:21:38 -0800
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Sounds like you have been reading this list for a while. It seems that the
prevaling attitude here is that everyone needs a Superduty F-350 with a PSD
(or maybe a V10) no matter what they need the truck to do.

For what you are doing, get another Ranger. You said it yourself that it
does what you want. At the most, you might want a F-150 (even one with the
standard 205hp V6 is more than enough). Your needs do not in any way dictate
a truck with the cargo capacity, towing capacity, or weight for a F-350 (not
to mention the additional cost).

Rob


> Wow, that was a page full. Thanks.
>
> I have been checking out things at CARPOINT.COM. The rest of the story...
> I currently have a 1998 Ranger SC XLT 4.0L 5sp auto 4x4. Real nice truck.
> I drove it down to Phoenix and back, about 3000 miles in three weeks. I
> enjoyed driving it. Handled real well, not a difficult drive. My father
> drove it about 400 miles and hated it, said the wind blew him all over the
> place. Dad just retired from pushing an 18-wheeler, btw. Overall I like
> the Ranger. I am planning a cross country move, so a towing is on my list
> of needs. I am also a Dejay so I need something that I can transport my
> equipment with.
>
> The reason for getting rid of the Ranger is that upon my return from
> Phoenix, it spent 45 days in the Ford shop. They can replicate the
> problem, but they cannot fix it. They have rebuilt the transmission,
> replaced the drive shaft, replaced the transmission, replace the rear
> differential, reprogrammed the computer and run more diagnostics on it than
> I knew existed. Oh yeah, the problem is that the Ranger lurches when I
> lightly accelerate and decelerate. It acts as though something in the
> drive train is shifting. I am not heavy footed driver and I take good care
> of my vehicles. The dealer has already agreed to replacing the Ranger and
> is willing to go with a different truck, or Ford vehicle, if I want to pay
> the MSRP difference between my Ranger and the other vehicle. I think that
> is being fair. By switching it out this way I also pay taxes on just the
> difference, which is about 8.5%. The MSRP on Ranger was 22,500. If I get
> a SD for 30,000, I pay 7,500 plus $.16 a mile for my use. About $3000. So
> I pay 10,500 out of my pocket and pay taxes on the $7,500 difference.
> Verses paying taxes on $30,000 if I trade it in, or buy new.
>
> My quandary is, do I get another Ranger, get a F-150 or get the F-350. For
> what I do, the Ranger is fine. I do a little four wheeling, but not as
> serious as I was several years ago. My only complaint against the Ranger
> line is they need a bigger fuel tank. Power wise, the truck is great.
> Rides nice. I just don't want to get another lemon...:-( I am also real
> concerned about the new front suspension. I have also had problem with the
> Pulse Lock hubs not engaging and disengaging properly.
>
> At 10:43 02/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>I had a similar debate not so long ago. One of the most helpful resources I
>>found was the vehicle pricing in the www.carpoint.com website.
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>

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:15:43 -0800
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Have you thought of looking for one that is actually made for this truck?
This is an accessory, and as such, it needs to be designed for the specific
vehicle. Looks like you need to find a "topper dealer" that will look a
little harder for you to find one designed for a 98+ regular cab Ranger.

FWIW, I have never had a CD player that has spit out ice-cold CDs. Every
single one has warmed the disc.

Rob

> Folks:
>
> It would be well for the list to know that the Ranger/Mazda
> 1999 trucks in REGULAR CAB will NOT mount any of the new well
> known TOPPERS due to the clever way Ford recessed the bed!
>
> If you want a new topper on a Ranger/Mazda REGULAR CAB you are
> just about out of luck unless you want it to hang over the
> edge of the bed a couple inches on each side.
>
> Now on the other side of the coin if you want to pay a bundle
> extra for the extended cab which just makes the truck weigh more
> and is almost worthless you can get a topper on those as
> the bed is flush with the cab.
>
> Really cute idea Mr. Ford to push your extended cab and make
> more MONEY!
>
> Oh and by the way the air conditioning system in them has a
> mildew smell about it after about 50 miles and so far mine
> has not gone away in the four months I have had it!
>
> In closing I might mention that the CDs that come out of
> the CD radio are hot enough to warm your hands on on a cold
> day so you might keep that in mind too.
>
> Michael
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:07:28 -0800
From: "Michael D. Sheridan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Re:Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Rob Bryan wrote:
>
> Have you thought of looking for one that is actually made for this truck?
> This is an accessory, and as such, it needs to be designed for the specific
> vehicle. Looks like you need to find a "topper dealer" that will look a
> little harder for you to find one designed for a 98+ regular cab Ranger.
>
> FWIW, I have never had a CD player that has spit out ice-cold CDs. Every
> single one has warmed the disc.
>
> Rob
>
> > Folks:
> >
> > It would be well for the list to know that the Ranger/Mazda
> > 1999 trucks in REGULAR CAB will NOT mount any of the new well
> > known TOPPERS due to the clever way Ford recessed the bed!
> >
> > If you want a new topper on a Ranger/Mazda REGULAR CAB you are
> > just about out of luck unless you want it to hang over the
> > edge of the bed a couple inches on each side.
> >
> > Now on the other side of the coin if you want to pay a bundle
> > extra for the extended cab which just makes the truck weigh more
> > and is almost worthless you can get a topper on those as
> > the bed is flush with the cab.
> >
> > Really cute idea Mr. Ford to push your extended cab and make
> > more MONEY!
> >
> > Oh and by the way the air conditioning system in them has a
> > mildew smell about it after about 50 miles and so far mine
> > has not gone away in the four months I have had it!
> >
> > In closing I might mention that the CDs that come out of
> > the CD radio are hot enough to warm your hands on on a cold
> > day so you might keep that in mind too.
> >
> > Michael

Hi Bob:

If you will note my post again I am saying that there is no
brand name topper for either the Ranger/Mazda regular cab that
will fit correctly, none, OK? Dealers have checked.

Do the CDs come out of your computer hot? If they did would
you not think something might be wrong as heat is a killer of
electronic things.

We have about 6 players around here including computers and
never had a disk come out even warm. Isn't is possible to believe
that there is some problem with the CD player in the Ranger/Mazda
truck radio?

Michael
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:00:37 -0800
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: FTE 97up - RE: Hot CD

> Rob Bryan wrote:
>>
>> Have you thought of looking for one that is actually made for this truck?
>> This is an accessory, and as such, it needs to be designed for the specific
>> vehicle. Looks like you need to find a "topper dealer" that will look a
>> little harder for you to find one designed for a 98+ regular cab Ranger.
>>
>> FWIW, I have never had a CD player that has spit out ice-cold CDs. Every
>> single one has warmed the disc.
>>
>> Rob

> Hi Bob:
>
> If you will note my post again I am saying that there is no
> brand name topper for either the Ranger/Mazda regular cab that
> will fit correctly, none, OK? Dealers have checked.
>
> Do the CDs come out of your computer hot? If they did would
> you not think something might be wrong as heat is a killer of
> electronic things.
>
> We have about 6 players around here including computers and
> never had a disk come out even warm. Isn't is possible to believe
> that there is some problem with the CD player in the Ranger/Mazda
> truck radio?
>
> Michael

On my Dell PII PC, with a NEC 24x ATAPI CD player, the CD's are 10deg F
above room temp if they have been in there for a while. But if I've been
accessing the disc (for example, I reinstalled MS Office) the disc was
significantly warmer than that. I noticed the same thing with the SCSI NEC
24x CD ROM on the Power Computing Mac clone I'm typing this on right now. On
the single-disc Sony stereo I have in my office, part of a MHC-5500
component set, warm disc after playing a CD. I'm listening to the radio now
and I put in a room-temp disc, so I'll see in an hour or so if the disc gets
as hot when it is just sitting there not being played.

Every single car CD player I've taken a disc out of has given me a nice warm
CD (this includes the Ford one that came with my car, and various Sony,
Pioneer and Clarion models). Ones from car CD changers tend to stay a little
cooler. Remember, there is a ton of heat-producing circuitry in there,
including an amp, laser, motor, EL display, etc etc.

Heat isn't a killer of electronic components, EXCESS heat is. For every
component there is a design operating temperature range. For instance, for
the Motorola PowerPC 750 processor, this range is something like -10 to 105
degrees C (note that 105C is 220F). I'm sure there is a temperature range
specified in the CD specs (called Red Book, I think) that a CD is allowed to
be in. It is probably something like 0-50C or something along those lines.
So as long as the CD isn't coming out so hot that it gives you a skin burn
and the polycarbonate is warping, it is probably OK. But take it in if you'd
like, but it'll probably be the same if the unit is replaced.

I'd be shocked if there wasn't a shell for a reg cab Ranger. Something like
400K units are made each year, and if say half are reg cabs that is a market
of 200K trucks each year that they could potentially sell to. When did you
check last? What do you concider "brand name"? In one of the Truck Trends
magazines I checked, there were about 20 companies making shells, and some
of these companies already had product out for the Chevy Silverado, which
was out for like a month when that issue was published. Check again, and
with more manufacturers. I'm sure someone has a suitable product.

ROB
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:16:47 -0500
From: Michael
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 F250 SuperDuty Diesel - For Sale

Hi All,

My like-new 1999 Ford F250 Superduty Diesel is still for sale. To
view pictures of it and the details, please visit my web page at:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~dixieboy/F250Sale.html

Many thanks to all the efforts put forth to keep this newsgroup up and
running and a special thanks to Nathan for all his help and knowledge.
Good Work !!!

Have a Great Day,
Michael

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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:27:50 -0800
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Okay I'll admit it, I *need* the Ranger, I **want** the SD F350 PSD.

Btw, I traded a 94(?) Ranger for this one. The old one never needed more
than Fuel, LOF and a couple of tire rotations. I think I may have replaced
the wiper blades... once. It was a reg cab and I wanted a 4x4 Extra cab.

I have really been disappointed in the 98. It has spent more time in the
shop for warranty than it has for routine maintenance. The old Ranger
never went into the shop for anything other than routine maintenance. I
took it in for its 36,000 mile service and drove off with the 98 4x4. I
have had a lot of problems with it, which is making me reluctant to get
another one.

- -Julian

At 14:21 02/22/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Sounds like you have been reading this list for a while. It seems that the
>prevaling attitude here is that everyone needs a Superduty F-350 with a PSD
>(or maybe a V10) no matter what they need the truck to do.
>
>For what you are doing, get another Ranger. You said it yourself that it
>does what you want. At the most, you might want a F-150 (even one with the
>standard 205hp V6 is more than enough). Your needs do not in any way dictate
>a truck with the cargo capacity, towing capacity, or weight for a F-350 (not
>to mention the additional cost).
>
>Rob
>
>
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:33:19 EST
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

OK, now we got to the basics. You WANT the 350, probably NEED a Ranger but a
150 would be reasonable amount of overkill based on your planned move to the
left coast.

This now gets down to how much you are willing to pay to keep your
Testosterone levels cranked up driving a 350 4x4. If you recognize this is a
WANT not a Requirement, you have the loose change to spend on it (most
important since you will be living with this beast for a while), and you are
willing to put up with the down side of comfort, and cost of operation then go
for it. You've gotten some pretty sound advice on this thread that says
pretty much an F150 will do what you physically have to do. No one here can
evaluate the importance of your emotions on this issue. All we can tell you is
to keep em in check.

Problem is if you buy the 350 and then find out a year or so down the road
that this wasn't the smartest move you ever made then you'll growl that I
shoulda listened and bought the F 150. On the other hand, buy the F 150 and
you will probably wish you had bought the 350 even though you never get
outside of the 150's capabilities and you'll be several thousand dollars less
in debt.

I understand your problem really, been there done that. The first Super Duty I
ever saw was a 250 at a small dealership on a trip through Montana. My
impression then and still is that it was one h___ of a truck and I'd like to
have it. But, everything I've got is paid for and until I really need one I'm
not buying a new one. To me the money looks a lot better in my hands than in
the dealers right now. But everyone's situation is a little different. We can
tell you what we would do, but the decision is ultimately yours and you'll
have to live with it.

Good luck and God Bless

John G
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:17:23 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Ranger
Pros: Cheaper, smaller, better on gas, easier to maneuver, lots of
aftermarket available
Cons: smaller, weaker, one word "plywood", lowest tow rating, smallest back
seat

F-150
Pros: Size compromise between Ranger and SD, Mileage compromise between
same, style(if you don't want that big truck look), turns better than a SD,
lots of aftermarket available
Cons: Price is about the same as a SD 250, style(some people hate it), not
as strongly built as the SD trucks, turns worse than a Ranger

SD F-250
Pros: Bigger engine options, stronger frame and suspension, bigger
payload&tow capacity, largest passenger space, very tall, higher resale
value, three words "lots of plywood", rear disk brakes.
Cons: large turning diameter, limited aftermarket (right now anyway), very
tall(too tall for some garages, and you'll definitely need some sort of
step)

SD F-350
Pros (in addition to F-250): Dually option, slightly larger payload
Cons: Stiffer ride than F-250, price difference from F-250 isn't
justifiable, unless you need the dual wheels or the additional payload.

Bottom lines:
Rangers are small passenger vehicles that can haul around some stuff.
F-150s are large passenger vehicles that can haul around even more stuff
SD 250/350's are small trucks that can haul around passengers and lots of
stuff



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:08:29 -0800
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ranger vs F150 vs SD 4x4

Testosterone: Oh yeah! Without it, I would get the Ranger.

Emotions: That has gotten me in more trouble then I care to admit. My
first Ranger was purchase as a business vehicle, there was little emotions
involved. The current Ranger, gotta admit I love the truck. But man,
those F350 sure look nice.

>> But, everything I've got is paid for...

I can get into a real nice Ranger for about $3000 out of my pocket. To get
into a similar F150 it will be about $9000; the SD about $15,000. That
sure makes the Ranger a real nice truck. hmmm.

Thanks.

- -Julian


At 23:33 02/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, now we got to the basics. You WANT the 350, probably NEED a Ranger but a
>150 would be reasonable amount of overkill based on your planned move to the
>left coast.
>
>This now gets down to how much you are willing to pay to keep your
>Testosterone levels cranked up driving a 350 4x4. If you recognize this is a
>WANT not a Requirement, you have the loose change to spend on it (most
>important since you will be living with this beast for a while), and you are
>willing to put up with the down side of comfort, and cost of operation then go
>for it. You've gotten some pretty sound advice on this thread that says
>pretty much an F150 will do what you physically have to do. No one here can
>evaluate the importance of your emotions on this issue. All we can tell you is
>to keep em in check.
>
> Problem is if you buy the 350 and then find out a year or so down the road
>that this wasn't the smartest move you ever made then you'll growl that I
>shoulda listened and bought the F 150. On the other hand, buy the F 150 and
>you will probably wish you had bought the 350 even though you never get
>outside of the 150's capabilities and you'll be several thousand dollars less
>in debt.
>
>I understand your problem really, been there done that. The first Super Duty I
>ever saw was a 250 at a small dealership on a trip through Montana. My
>impression then and still is that it was one h___ of a truck and I'd like to
>have it. But, everything I've got is paid for and until I really need one I'm
>not buying a new one. To me the money looks a lot better in my hands than in
>the dealers right now. But everyone's situation is a little different. We can
>tell you what we would do, but the decision is ultimately yours and you'll
>have to live with it.
>
>Good luck and God Bless
>
>John G

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------....


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