97up-list-digest Thursday, February 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 044



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 97up - Outstanding TSB's for 1997 F-150
[none]
Re: FTE 97up - registration/plates on new F350 in AZ
Re: FTE 97up - FDAF Assessment
Re: FTE 97up - Outstanding TSB's for 1997 F-150
Re: FTE 97up - Truck Oddities - Super Duty
Re: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment
FTE 97up - Re: FDAF
Re: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment
FTE 97up - Re: AZ Commercial Plates
FTE 97up - Re: Truck oddities
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty dirt trick
Re: FTE 97up - Tire siping
FTE 97up - Re: FDAF, truck oddities
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!]
Re: FTE 97up - Tire siping
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Truck oddities
Re: FTE 97up - Truck Oddities - Super Duty
Re: FTE 97up - Tire siping -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty dirt trick
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty dirt trick
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!]
FTE 97up -- Explorer Keyless Entry Codes
Re: FTE 97up -- Explorer Keyless Entry Codes
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!]
FTE 97up - Re: F-150 Fog light wiring
FTE 97up - Ranger Pop-out Windows
FTE 97up - Spare tire lock
Re: FTE 97up - registration/plates on new F350 in AZ
Re: FTE 97up - Spare tire lock

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:52:04 -0600
From: Todd Styles
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Outstanding TSB's for 1997 F-150

I had a '97 F150 Regular Cab that had a leaky slider, too. It wasn't too
bad until they pulled the window to reseal it. After that, if it was
raining, it leaked so bad that it filled up the plastic tray behind the
seat. It leaked right over the passenger's head. I traded up to a '99 SD.
Todd.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Jon Lam [SMTP:jlam netcom.ca]
> Sent:Wednesday, February 17, 1999 12:51 AM
> To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:FTE 97up - Outstanding TSB's for 1997 F-150
>
> I have just purchased a used 1997 F-150 2wd, 4.2 V6, SC, 5sp. from the
> local Ford dealer. The warranty is going to expire in another 5000kms
> and I would
> like to know are there any outstanding TSB's I should worry about? So
> far, the rear slider window has a small leak whenever it rains and I
> have also noticed that the up shifting is rather stiff and slow. The
> truck also does not come with any maintenance schedule, does anyone know
> where I could obtain one?
>
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:11:13 -0700
From: "Matus, Scott A"
Subject: [none]

Nathan, my truck was built on 9-17-98. Will Ford contact the owners of
trucks that do not have air coming from the radiator area? Or will I have
to check with the dealer on a regular basis?

Thank you,

Scott Matus
__________________________________

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:14:12 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Truck Oddities - Super Duty

>* Inside the driver's side fender well there is a flexible water
>shield at the front. I think this was Ford's solution for the ice and
water
>buildup on the air intake. There should be a TSB on this. Because the
>passenger side wheel well does not have it. I think they should put one on
>both sides.


This feature is only on the Power Strokes and vehicles built after Dec
7th don't have it as they're now taking air from the radiator area. In the
next couple of months they will have a retrofit kit for people that live in
snowy areas to insall the new air box.




Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:47:29 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - registration/plates on new F350 in AZ

Arizona is using old, out-dated terminology to raise revenue. The term
1/2, 3/4 and 1-ton pick-up was used years ago to differentiate spring-packs
and wheel types (full-floating axles, 8-lug vs. 5-lug, etc.)on pick-ups.
You could no doubt build a 3/4-ton to have more weight-carrying capability
than a 1-ton, if you ordered it so from the factory. Most DMVs that look at
vehicle class just go by the GVWR on the vehicle, which is stamped on the
side-door plate and also is included on many vehicle titles. Anything over
certain limits (7,500 or 8,500 or 9,900 lbs., etc.) goes into the commercial
classification. Commercial plates can sometimes prohibit you from traveling
certain road (sometimes only if you are loaded to your GVWR) or, like in
Boston, they can allow you use certain roads (the new Ted Williams Tunnel or
the Haul Road). The same types of special rules apply to other large
vehicles, campers that have natural gas on-board, school buses, etc. In
Massachusetts you can plate your vehicle either commercial or personal, no
matter what the weight rating is (for pick-ups). But, if you are snow
plowing for money for the public, you should have commercial plates. Or you
could buy a 20,000 dump-truck a plate it for personal use if you really want
a nice heavy safe vehicle that won't get porked by one of those "killer"
SUVs!

Keith



- -----Original Message-----
From: Greg Knust
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 4:24 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - registration/plates on new F350 in AZ


>I recently bought a 99 F350 SuperDuty 4x4 LWB SC SRW. When I titled
>and registered the truck in Arizona, I was required to get commercial
>plates, apparently because it is rated as a one-ton truck. My use is
>as a pleasure/tow vehicle, not a business or commercial truck.
>
>The DMV says an F250 would not have been subject to this requirement,
>since it is a "3/4 ton", even though its rated payload is well over a
>ton in all wheelbase/4x2/4x4 configurations.
>
>I don't care about the $11 extra in the yearly registration, but what
>other requirements am I subject to, over and above those required of 1/2
>and 3/4 ton pickups, due to the commercial plates? For example, do I
>have to stop at weigh stations and interstate ports of entry, like
>"real" trucks do?
>
>Are all F350's getting commercial plates ("CA" prefix) in Arizona? (I
>think I've seen new F350 SD's with regular, non-comm plates around town,
>DMV says they must have been improperly registered) Called my local
>Ford dealer, they had no answer.
>
>Thanks for any info.
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:52:33 -0500
From: ryana asg.com (Ryan Allen)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - FDAF Assessment

At 19:03 2/16/99 , you wrote:
>I bought my truck from Airport Marina Ford in Marina Del Rey\Los Angeles,
>Ca. and never heard of such a thing. Is this fee shown on the sticker or is
>it added into the contract. I've also been to Galpin, Buerge, and Santa
>Monica Ford (all in Santa Monica\L.A.) and none of them show this as part of
>the deal on the contract. Are we immune to this fee in L.A.?

It's on the original invoice. Ford breaks down, on the original invoice,
the cost of every option, the price of fuel from the factory, and the FDAF
Assessment. I'm surprised that in LA it's not larger! :)

Ryan
Intranet Specialist
Intranet Development Team (IDTeam)
Allen Systems Group
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.asg.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:51:11 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Outstanding TSB's for 1997 F-150

We had a F-250 LD with a slider that leaked, and after a few attempts at
resealing we found out that there are two tabs that should be in place for a
solid window, but bent over or cut off for a sliding. If this isn't done it
can cause a leak. I'd have them check this out.

Nathan

- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Styles
To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 7:05 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Outstanding TSB's for 1997 F-150


>I had a '97 F150 Regular Cab that had a leaky slider, too. It wasn't too
>bad until they pulled the window to reseal it. After that, if it was
>raining, it leaked so bad that it filled up the plastic tray behind the
>seat. It leaked right over the passenger's head. I traded up to a '99 SD.
>Todd.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:53:42 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Truck Oddities - Super Duty

I talked to the service hotline a week ago and they told me the TSB was
written but hasn't been published due to legal mumbo jumbo. They said it
could be out in a few days or in a few months. But if you look under the
hood of a Power Stroke built after Dec. 7th, you'll see the new style air
box.

Nathan

- -----Original Message-----
From: RSnovi aol.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Truck Oddities - Super Duty


>In a message dated 99-02-16 19:24:09 EST, you write:
>
>
>
>i bought my truck back in november and there was no TSB on the air intake.
>
>Ross S.
>RSR Inc.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:58:50 -0500
From: ryana asg.com (Ryan Allen)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment

At 20:07 2/16/99 , you wrote:
>A question to all. If you (I) ordered a truck and negotiated the price, can
>(would) you renegotiate the price after it comes in?. I'm not too happy with
>the deal after hearing some of the prices people have paid and I'm thinking
>of doing just that.

Jody,
I suppose you could, and I know that people have, but I think it really
depends on what type of deal you got in the first place, how they've
treated you, etc. I got a truck (ordered, it's due in today or tomorrow)
for $100 over invoice. I have no room to quarrel on this price, and I'm
very happy with it. Besides with a $500 deposit, I lose it if I back out
for no good reason (although I could fight that one).
I guess you are saying that you agreed to too high a price? Usually for
the F150's $100-500 over is a great deal, and for the SDs $500 -800 over is
a great deal. Supply and demand, my friend. I was lucky -- but this
dealer is two hours away. But to save $400 over all the other local
dealers, it's worth it. I'm going up that way anyhow.
Anyway, the other problem is that when you order a vehicle, you sometimes
get a price in writing to insulate you in the increase in midyear price
increases. I order in December, after the $$$ of the F150s increased by
about $400 (small increases totalling about $400), so I don't think that it
will increase in the one month, but I agreed $100 over. So I don't get
insulated for that. Truthfully, at $100 or 200 over, it's still a great
deal. What is wrong with your deal? Hope it work out for you.

Cheers,
Ryan
Intranet Specialist
Intranet Development Team (IDTeam)
Allen Systems Group
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.asg.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:09:45 -0500
From: Gary & Nancy Brinck
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF

There's nothing wrong with a dealership recovering advertising expenses
[FDAF]- if they didn't, they would soon be out of business. What's WRONG
is offering a low ball price as bait and then adding things like FDAF onto
the bottom line. I feel that adding various administrative fees [paperwork
or processing fees, make ready, etc.] is in the same category. If the
vehicle sale cannot be completed without doing these things, they should be
included in the quoted price.

Imagine if you were checking out at the grocery, your cart loaded with the
advertised specials you saw in the newspaper. The checkout clerk rings up
your order, then adds 1% for advertising and $1.00 to recover the cashier's
wages and the cost of cash register tape! Would you ever go back? These
are all legitimate business expenses, but are part of the cost of doing
business and should be included in the stated prices.

At least in Sue's case, she obviously knew about the fee up front.

Gary

> FDAF is the Ford Dealer Advertising Fee, a pro-rated amount based on the
> amount of money spent in the area by dealers. Usually from $100-$200
> dollars. This is a fee from Ford, that the dealer must pay as part of
> Ford's national advertising program. This is passed to the consumer EVERY
> TIME, and I've only heard of a few people who have every had this waived,
> using the argument that advertising didn't bring the people in. I consider
> this a cost of doing business, and pay it.
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:17:41 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment

If you don't like paying tax on the fuel, you'll be really upset to find out
your paying $1.50 gallon for 87 octane fuel.
If you left a deposit, I think your stuck with the price you ok'd the
first time. If not you'll probably have to go to another dealer. Also if
you signed a purchase agreement you might be legally required to purchase
the truck.

Nathan

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jody Villa
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment


>The only problem I have with this and the gas charge is that you are paying
>sales tax based on the total vehicle cost of which these are included. Last
>I checked we pay tax for gas at the pump but with any dealer in my area you
>wind up paying again when sales tax is collected. I checked with the state
>and they said if it's on the sticker you pay tax on it.
>
>A question to all. If you (I) ordered a truck and negotiated the price, can
>(would) you renegotiate the price after it comes in?. I'm not too happy
with
>the deal after hearing some of the prices people have paid and I'm thinking
>of doing just that.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:30:26 -0500
From: Gary & Nancy Brinck
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: AZ Commercial Plates

> Are all F350's getting commercial plates ("CA" prefix) in Arizona? (I
> think I've seen new F350 SD's with regular, non-comm plates around town,
> DMV says they must have been improperly registered) Called my local
> Ford dealer, they had no answer.

Here in Florida it is based on GVW - since my F250 exceeds 8500# GVW (the
cutoff for "light" trucks), I pay for plates based on GVW rather than a
fixed fee, just like the commercial rigs do. But the plate and
registration are not identified as commercial. Since my usage is is either
personal travel or trailer towing, I have, with DMV concurrence, registered
it for its 5660# curb weight plus 339# for two passengers for a total of
5999#. A fictitious weight, I know, but that is how it's done here.

Since my 5W has its own plate and registration fee, I don't have to pay for
the tongue weight load it puts on the truck when towing. It actually makes
sense! But I live in a rural area with a lot of horse farms and logging
operations, so the local DMV office is cognizant of these things. The
dealer (in the city) wanted to register it for the full 8800# potential
GVW, at a substantial extra cost to me.

Gary
- --
Gary & Nancy Brinck
in Florida's Ocala National Forest
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:32:08 -0500
From: RICK KANE
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Truck oddities

Can someone tell me what the wires, ending in unused plugs, at the rear
of each front wheelwell on my 99 F250 SD SC PSD 4x4 are for?

Thank you,
Rick Kane
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:49:16 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty dirt trick

Nathan,

Deal was "$200 over invoice for an ordered Super Duty". I dealt with
the sales manager, whom in the past three years I have purchased from
a '97 Ranger, '97 Eddie Bauer Explorer, and '98 Eddie Bauer Expedition.

I also have had all maintenance - including insurance claims, performed at
this dealership. So "$200 over", with a three to five month wait expected,
seem a great deal to me - but not "cheap", considering all the business I've
brought them. (Metaphorically, I'm probably what you would refer to as a
"donut" customer.)

Here's where I stand so far:

The sales manager, Pat Rosenberg, has given me a loaner "for as
long as it takes", and has given me first pick on a loaded XLT due
in this week (though it lacks many of the Lariat features).

On Monday I contacted an attorney and am waiting to here back from
him today.

Also on Monday, Pat (sales manager) informed me that the person at
Ford that owed him a return favor for his Chicago Auto Show donation,
returned his call and said he would put my order in for build this week. I
commented to Pat on what you had indicated previously about trying to
change build schedules, but Pat replied "this was different". Pat said that

he has "allocations" from Ford for this week and all he wanted done was
to place my order at the top of those allocations. Pat couldn't guarantee
anything because it all depends on available commodities (cd players...).
This lifted my spirits. But I was interested to hear what you, Nathan,
thought about the likelihood of this occurring?

My belief teaches me to give a person a second chance to correct a mistake,
if they are sincere. Pat Rosenberg wants that chance.

What I don't want is another 4-1/2 month wait.

Thanks,

Charles.






Union Auto wrote:

> Did some looking and there are only 5 V-10 Lariat's in the whole state so
> I'd guess that dealer trading one is out. As for waiting it shouldn't be
> that long of a wait as V-10 production is up (EST. 65% PSD, 28% V-10, 7%
> 5.4L) . I'm kind of off on my scheduling right now (I get all my trucks at
> once, deliver them when they come in, and then get a bunch of allocation
> again) but a lot of the time its only 5-6 weeks to Ford's estimated time of
> delivery (Although 80% of the time shipping takes longer and their 2 weeks
> late). So you shouldn't have a huge wait. What did they sell the truck to
> you for (price Vs. sticker). It seems odd they sold it out from under you
> unless they priced it too cheap and didn't want to sell it.
>
> Nathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Abraham
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 2:08 PM
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
>
> >Ordered F250 Super Duty V10 Auto 3.73LS 4x4 LARIAT.
> >
> >The general manager sold it on the same day it was delivered.
> >
> >Now if I re-order I'm back in line behind everyone else. And how do I
> >trust this guy. What's stopping him from doing the same thing to me again?
> >(The truck that came in that they sold matched exactly my order number
> >that I placed $500 as deposit on last Sept'98.)
> >
> >
> >Nathan, what's the current wait, still three to five months? I'm hearing
> >10 weeks from others who have just placed new orders for V10 Lariats,
> >at least that's what their truck dealership is telling them anyway.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Charles.
> >
>
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:01:34 GMT
From: alannorthstar mindspring.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tire siping

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:05:29 -0800, you wrote:

:Has anyone heard of 'sipeing' a tire? This is where they use a machine =
to
:cut slits at 90 degrees across the treads. It's supposed to give extra
:traction, better braking, a smoother ride, longer tire life - yada, =
yada.
:
:My tire dealer is trying to sell me onit. Anyone know anything about =
this?
:
This comes up periodically.

I always wonder this: If sipeing is to good, why don't tire
manufacturers build it into their tires, huh?

Later,
Alan
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:15:49 -0500
From: "Mike McNany"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF, truck oddities

FDAF: if they're gonna tell you about it to charge you for it, make 'em show
you THEIR invoice which shows the dealer holdbacks and savings for short
term financing. I don't like it when (if) a dealer touts a fee you have to
pay but hides the other info.
Truck Oddities: The F150 (I hear) has a small plastic deflector shield in
front of both front fender wells, but the Expedition only has one on the
driver's side. I purchased and installed the ~$5 part myself.

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:21:35 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!]

Doug,

I'm curious, do you feel the dealer made a honest mistake or was it
intentional - for the money - more money? My sales manager "feels"
his general manager who sold my truck had made a honest - but dumb,
mistake.

This is a question for Nathan, upon delivery to the dealership, on the
dealer's lot how are "ordered" vehicles segregated - kept apart, from "retail".

Thanks,

Charles.




Doug Moore wrote:

> My opinion
> Note: I had a dealer that might have done the same deal with my Mustang GT a
> few years back. They said the car was lost then sold.
> I needed transportation,
> The owner > > >arranged for rental unit "as long as I it take to get your
> Mustang". (It was 4 months)
>
> Next, I asked how they where going to > make it right.
> They gave me the car for 50.00 over invoice and first rights on any Mustang
> GT that came in
> They did all they could to make me somewhat happy.
> Note: I only got this after I talk directly to the owner.
>
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:42:35 -0500
From: ryana asg.com (Ryan Allen)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tire siping

At 10:01 2/17/99 , you wrote:
>I always wonder this: If sipeing is to good, why don't tire
>manufacturers build it into their tires, huh?

Same reason manufacturers don't make good factory radios I suppose. Leave
something to the aftermarket. Plus, it adds a LOT of time to the creation
of a tire. Ever time a tire is made it would have to go through a special
siping process, which can't be done in a mold (due to the size of siping,
etc. I'd think). So they leave it to the marketplace to offer it if need
be. That's my guess.

Cheers,
Ryan
Intranet Specialist
Intranet Development Team (IDTeam)
Allen Systems Group
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.asg.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:39:26 -0800
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Truck oddities

It's kind of hard to tell from here :-), but do you have anti-lock brakes
in front? If not, that would be my guess. Rear anti-lock is standard.

RICK KANE wrote:

> Can someone tell me what the wires, ending in unused plugs, at the rear
> of each front wheelwell on my 99 F250 SD SC PSD 4x4 are for?
>
> Thank you,
> Rick Kane
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:43:55 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Truck Oddities - Super Duty

In a message dated 99-02-17 09:01:00 EST, you write:


ok thanks for the info, they had to order in parts for rear brake line TSB
yesterday.

RS

I talked to the service hotline a week ago and they told me the TSB was
written but hasn't been published due to legal mumbo jumbo. They said it
could be out in a few days or in a few months. But if you look under the
hood of a Power Stroke built after Dec. 7th, you'll see the new style air
box.

Nathan >>
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:28:09 -0500
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tire siping -Reply

Here is another guess

How deep is the siping on a tire?? answer, not very deep.

How long would it last if it were done at the tire factory?? answer, not very long

That's why siping is done the way it is. The same tire might have to be siped several times during its life. My guess
is that it also speeds up wear on the tire and it is only useful during special rare instances such as snow, ice or rock
crawling. Therefor tire manufacturers would have to decrease the tire life guarantee of tires which were siped.
Also tire manufacturers don't want people thinking their tires have worn out after only a few thousand miles if the
siping wears off and complaining.

My 2 cents
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:54:32 EST
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty dirt trick

Charles;

What it sounds like is what Nathan pointed at, you had negotiated a very good
deal and the Gen Manager had a hungry customer who was willing to pay a bunch
more for that truck. It's dirty pool especially for a good customer at that
dealership as you seem to have been. Sounds like the Sales manager is running
around doing his best at sweeping up the mess his boss left (welcome to
Dilbert). The problem as I understand it is that the guy that created the
problem (General Manager) isn't taking any of the heat for this if, as you
said earlier, he was the one that was responsible for releasing the truck for
sale. The next problem is if you take the XLT, you don't get what you really
wanted in the first place.

Good luck,


John G
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:08:33 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty dirt trick

He means he can get it scheduled (not built) this week meaning a 6-8 week
wait. I had a Mustang that was destroyed during shipping that I was told
there was no way to expedite the unit over other scheduled units. It was
scheduled that week, but won't arrive for another 3 weeks (7 weeks total).

Nathan Bernard

- -----Original Message-----
From: Charles Abraham
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty dirt trick


>Nathan,
>
>Deal was "$200 over invoice for an ordered Super Duty". I dealt with
>the sales manager, whom in the past three years I have purchased from
>a '97 Ranger, '97 Eddie Bauer Explorer, and '98 Eddie Bauer Expedition.
>
>I also have had all maintenance - including insurance claims, performed at
>this dealership. So "$200 over", with a three to five month wait expected,
>seem a great deal to me - but not "cheap", considering all the business
I've
>brought them. (Metaphorically, I'm probably what you would refer to as a
>"donut" customer.)
>
>Here's where I stand so far:
>
> The sales manager, Pat Rosenberg, has given me a loaner "for as
> long as it takes", and has given me first pick on a loaded XLT due
> in this week (though it lacks many of the Lariat features).
>
> On Monday I contacted an attorney and am waiting to here back from
> him today.
>
> Also on Monday, Pat (sales manager) informed me that the person at
> Ford that owed him a return favor for his Chicago Auto Show donation,
> returned his call and said he would put my order in for build this
week. I
> commented to Pat on what you had indicated previously about trying to
> change build schedules, but Pat replied "this was different". Pat said
that
>
> he has "allocations" from Ford for this week and all he wanted done was
> to place my order at the top of those allocations. Pat couldn't
guarantee
> anything because it all depends on available commodities (cd
players...).
> This lifted my spirits. But I was interested to hear what you, Nathan,
> thought about the likelihood of this occurring?
>
>My belief teaches me to give a person a second chance to correct a mistake,
>if they are sincere. Pat Rosenberg wants that chance.
>
>What I don't want is another 4-1/2 month wait.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Charles.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:23:25 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!]

On all the printouts we get from Ford the type of order is noted
(DMO=demonstrator, STK= stock order, RET=retail order (sold), 5B=gov't
fleet, etc). When they arrive it is the dealers responsibility to keep them
straight. We're small enough that it isn't a problem but I could see things
being different at a larger dealer.

As for honest or not, I don't know your dealer to say. I know dealers in
this area that would drop someone for $50 and I know some that if it
happened would have just made a mistake. The key is what they do to make it
right with you. It sounds like your a good customer and they should be
willing to do whatever it takes to make things right.

As for the XLT, be careful. I've had several dealers trying to trade me
very loaded XLT's for trucks on my lot, but if you price a Lariat they are
within $500 (varies body style to body style) due to the standard features
that cost extra on a XLT (Power Seat, Running boards, etc) so it's hard to
sell an XLT this way. Also many of the options that cost extra on a XLT
won't get you anything in resale where a Lariat assumes all this is standard
will have better resale.

Nathan

- -----Original Message-----
From: Charles Abraham
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!]


>Doug,
>
>I'm curious, do you feel the dealer made a honest mistake or was it
>intentional - for the money - more money? My sales manager "feels"
>his general manager who sold my truck had made a honest - but dumb,
>mistake.
>
>This is a question for Nathan, upon delivery to the dealership, on the
>dealer's lot how are "ordered" vehicles segregated - kept apart, from
"retail".
>
>Thanks,
>
>Charles.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:50:25 PST
From: "Jeff Nicolai"
Subject: FTE 97up -- Explorer Keyless Entry Codes

I recently purchased a 1997 Explorer XLT from a private party. However,
he did not know the keyless entry code. Does anyone know where the code
is located? I was told that it is in the back of the truck and you
would probably need a flashlight to find it. I know that on certain
cars, the code is written on the inside of the doors.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff.

______________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:30:33 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up -- Explorer Keyless Entry Codes

If you remove the jack access panel (drivers side hatch area) and look
(you'll need a flashlight) to the front there is a black box with a white
label. Among other numbers it will have the code for the keyless. It takes
a little contorting to read it, but its there.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Nicolai
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:05 PM
Subject: FTE 97up -- Explorer Keyless Entry Codes


>I recently purchased a 1997 Explorer XLT from a private party. However,
>he did not know the keyless entry code. Does anyone know where the code
>is located? I was told that it is in the back of the truck and you
>would probably need a flashlight to find it. I know that on certain
>cars, the code is written on the inside of the doors.
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff.
>
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:38:41 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!]

Thanks Nathan and everyone else for your input and support..

Looks like the only thing I can do for now is sit and wait it out.
This Friday or coming Monday I should know the verdict on
whether or not my re-ordered truck has actually gotten scheduled.
After the past five months - and especially this last week, I should
be able to do the next six to eight weeks standing on my head!

And I've got a free loaner car to drive.

Still haven't heard back from my lawyer though..

As for the XLT, your right Nathan, the Lariat price difference
was less than a thousand dollars. And the XLT didn't have steps,
tow package, overhead console, twin blade sun visors, floor mats,
premium wheels or leather.

Charles.

Post Script, talking with a member on this list who is selling a Super
Duty that I may be interested in, he tells me that the same thing almost
happen to him, the dealer selling his nine-months-in-waiting-for Super
Duty out from under him. He says that it was just by chance that he had
stopped at his dealer to check on delivery of his then new truck when he
spotted it on the lot and a salesperson trying to sell it to somebody else.






Charles.

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:54:54 -0500
From: psjlelliott juno.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: F-150 Fog light wiring

Nathan,

It's 2 wd. Figured I'd need the lights, brackets, etc. New valance
would be needed for a slick look, vs. bolting the things directly onto
the bumper. Really wondered if the current factory light switch could be
used rather than an aftermarket or replacement switch? The current
switch pulls out like it would if the lights were there. It's cold
outside, so I haven't crawled under the dash to check it out.

- -Pete

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:08:16 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: F-150 Fog light wiring

Is it a 4x4? If so the wiring is probably there but you'd need the
switch,
lights, brackets, and probably a couple of relays. The Ford kit also (I
think) comes with a front valance so you might need to switch that also.

Nathan

- - -----Original Message-----
From: psjlelliott juno.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:56 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - F150 Fog Light Wiring


>I recently purchased a 99 LD W.S. I'm wondering if anybody knows where
>(or if?) I can find wiring for fog lights? I notice that the light
>switch pulls out, like it would if the light option had been installed,
>and couldn't help wondering if everything but the bulbs was in there
>somewhere?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Pete

___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:39:49 -0600
From: "Randy Collins"
Subject: FTE 97up - Ranger Pop-out Windows

Is it possible to add the rear pop-out windows to my 98 Ranger? Nathan?
Approximate cost? Is this something that could be done in my driveway? Any
info is appreciated. No answer frfom the small list.

TIA
ran
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:55:44 -0800
From: "mlester"
Subject: FTE 97up - Spare tire lock

After the recent post regarding stolen spare tire, I went out and bought the
Ford Spare Tire Lock for my 99 F250 Super Duty.

It is a strange looking thing. There is a plug type thing that goes into
the tube and a long round key that locks the plug into the tube.

The part number for the 99 is F75Z-1A380-BA and cost $44.00. Since I had
bought the vehicle from this dealer they give 15% discount on all parts and
accessories.

This is still cheaper than replacing the tire and wheel.

I just installed mud flaps today also. I wish they would do this right from
the factory.

Best regards

Martial

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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:03:25 EST
From: RAMWORKER aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - registration/plates on new F350 in AZ

OK, here's my opinion and experience:
Never ever ever, stop at the weigh stations or ports of entry,
particularly New Mexicos', ignore the signs which have fooled
numerous people, including myself (twice, slow learner) that
would appear to indicate that you need to stop there, commercial
plates or not.
What NM is looking for is commercial registration
(cab card, apportioned plates) and IFTA
(International Fuel Tax Agreement) stickers. If you don't have
an IFTA sticker, you will be called in to the office where they will
want you to pay the fuel tax across their state, but if you don't have
a cab card, they won't let you pay their tax or continue across NM.
They will tell you to turn around, do not proceed through our state
or you will be arrested.
I tried arguing long and hard that I was not "commercial" and had
come in by mistake, all this fell on typically deaf government employee
ears. I was allowed to go out and ask the DOT official if they would
waive this rule so I could proceed, and it was allowed for me to pay
the $8.60 road use tax and proceed. Never again will I stop at one
of these places unless I truly am running "commercial" and for hire.
I have heard several rumors of people traveling with 5W (RV) trailers
being stopped by the highway patrol for not stopping at weigh stations,
but I still haven't spoken to anyone that actually had this happen to them.
To make a long story short, don't stop.

Best Regards,
Robert


In a message dated 2/17/99 1:26:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
grknust hotmail.com writes:

> I don't care about the $11 extra in the yearly registration, but what
> other requirements am I subject to, over and above those required of 1/2
> and 3/4 ton pickups, due to the commercial plates? For example, do I
> have to stop at weigh stations and interstate ports of entry, like
> "real" trucks do?
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:27:52 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Spare tire lock....


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