97up-list-digest Tuesday, February 16 1999 Volume 02 : Number 042



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
FTE 97up - Re: PSD Starting - WAV file
FTE 97up - F150 Fog Light Wiring
FTE 97up - Warn steps
Re: FTE 97up - Warn steps
RE: FTE 97up - Warn steps
RE: FTE 97up - Warn steps
FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment
Re: FTE 97up - Re: PSD Hard Starting
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Quick fix before it's to late
Re: FTE 97up - Warn steps
Re: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment
RE: FTE 97up - Warn steps
FTE 97up - Re: EXPEDITION: 99X: $500/$800 over Invoice
FTE 97up - ADMIN: Posting instructions
Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror

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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:08:31 -0600
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

My Superduty V10 has been on order for 2 months now and no sign of a build
date yet. I have been hearing 4 months.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Charles Abraham [SMTP:abrahamc agcs.com]
> Sent:Sunday, February 14, 1999 1:53 PM
> To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
>
> Ordered F250 Super Duty V10 Auto 3.73LS 4x4 LARIAT.
>
> The general manager sold it on the same day it was delivered.
>
> Now if I re-order I'm back in line behind everyone else. And how do I
> trust this guy. What's stopping him from doing the same thing to me again?
> (The truck that came in that they sold matched exactly my order number
> that I placed $500 as deposit on last Sept'98.)
>
>
> Nathan, what's the current wait, still three to five months? I'm hearing
> 10 weeks from others who have just placed new orders for V10 Lariats,
> at least that's what their truck dealership is telling them anyway.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles.
>
> Union Auto wrote:
>
> > What exactly did you order? I wouldn't believe the aerostar (Windstar)
> > story as Ford isn't overly helpful on anything anymore.
> >
> > Nathan Bernard
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Charles Abraham
> > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 5:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
> >
> > >I called Ford Customer Care's 800 number and they too were sorry,
> > >but - and get this, he said "this is a dealership issue, the Ford
> Company
> > >met their commitment by delivering the truck to the dealer on time."
> > >
> > >I next went in person to the dealership, here is their name by-the-way:
> > >
> > >Sycamore Auto Center (Ford/Mazda), INC.
> > >Hwy. 23 and Coltonville Rd.
> > >Sycamore, Illinois 60178
> > >
> > >I spoke with the sales manager, the guy I placed the order with
> originally.
> > >The general manager never appeared.
> > >
> > >As far as my truck its history - somewhere now in Wisconsin drives a
> > >happy trucker. Anyway, first, I needed transportation, which he quickly
> > >arranged ('99 Contour) for "as long as I want". Next, I asked how he
> was
> > >going to make it right to me. Could he get me the same truck without
> the
> > >4-1/2 month wait. Here's what he said; and Nathan can best judge if
> there
> > >is any truth or hope in this.
> > >
> > >For the Chicago Auto Show, Sycamore Auto Center provided a Aerostar
> > >or something like that to Ford especially for the show. He said
> "Aerostars"
> > >are hard to get like Super Duty's, so now Ford owes them. So maybe he
> > >can use this debt to push me to the front of the line if I re-order. He
> > also has
> > >
> > >a loaded XLT coming in next week that I would get first crack at. It
> has
> > >about the same features plus snow plow package, 4.10 rear end. Just no
> > >leather or overhead console or tow package (he'd add the tow at a local
> > >shop).
> > >
> > >Oops, here's my ride back to pickup the loaner, I'll be back on Monday
> > >with an update.
> > >
> > >Charles.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >The general manager never came out to
> > >apologize. Anyway,
> > >
> > >George Rigney wrote:
> > >
> > >> Charles,
> > >>
> > >> Please name the dealership, salesman, & location. People on the list
> who
> > >> live in this area should spread the word on what a scumbag the guy
> is.
> > >> Also, report him to the Chamber of Commerce, the Better Business
> Bureau,
> > >> etc. Call your district attorney to see if any laws were broken
> (such as
> > >> fraud). My sincere sympathies. Anyone who lives in his area who
> knows
> > of a
> > >> trustworthy dealer, please speak up. That salesman is so low he
> ought to
> > >> run for president.
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Charles Abraham [mailto:abrahamc agcs.com]
> > >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 2:01 PM
> > >> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > >> Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
> > >>
> > >> My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
> > >> was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".
> > >>
> > >> All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
> > >> I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
> > >> I'm at a lost what to do next.
> > >>
> > >> Talk to you after I recover,
> > >>
> > >> Charles.
> > >>
> > >> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> > >> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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>
>
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:16:59 -0500
From: Bill
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

Hate to tell ya, but my F250 SD, supercab, V10, Auto, 430LS
4x2 Lariat was ordered the first week of October and no
build date yet.

"Strukel, Mike" wrote:
>
> My Superduty V10 has been on order for 2 months now and no sign of a build
> date yet. I have been hearing 4 months.
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:10:03 EST
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

In a message dated 2/15/99 7:23:44 Eastern Standard Time, kg8aw ismi.net
writes:


Date:2/15/99 7:23:44 Eastern Standard Time
From:kg8aw ismi.net (Bill)
Sender:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to:97up-list ford-trucks.com
To:97up-list ford-trucks.com

>>
To the guy with the original problem;

If you want to pursue this the advice to get a lawyer is a good one and get
the meanest and most persistent one around. They way I see it, you are
basically shafted into waiting until Ford produces another truck or you can
get the one that's driving around in Wisconsin back (might be tougher). What
you have to find out is whether it was deliberate or really a screwup on the
dealers part. If you can show that the dealer sold the truck at a higher price
than you would have paid in your contract you may have him for significant
punitive damages. These are things a lawyer can and will find out in the
discovery process especially if he thinks he has a good punitive awards case.

Don't let the nonsense that Ford is in the clear stop you either. These are
franchised dealers, licensed to carry and advertise Fords name. Ford has got
some say into how they run their business since their corporate image is at
stake. They don't like to get involved, but stupidity such as this on the
dealers part should be part of his franchise record. The message is make Ford
part of the suit as well, raise the pain.

Have you been damaged by not having the truck? business needs, whatever. Is
not having the truck as promised costing you money/ income?

The dealer already knows he has a problem, the use of a loaner is evidence of
that. His greatest hope and probable assumption is that you are some clod that
isn't smart enough or hard enough to pursue it. A lot of people unfortunately
are and the less reputable dealers live off that

The bottom line though is that you have to wind up being a Super Pain in the A
and you can't do it alone effectively. You need a professionally trained Pain
in the A to help you. Once both Ford and the dealer see you are not rolling
over you will be amazed at will suddenly appear. The last thing either of
them want is to have something like this show up in front of a jury for the
assignment of punitive damages. You might not get your truck any sooner but
it might cost you less. You can also bet that once this goes forward, it hit's
the local papers LOCAL AUTO DEALER SUED FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT. Now the
general manager has to deal with the owner.

Illigitimus Carburundom (Don't let the bastards grind you down)

John G
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:32:15 -0500
From: ryana asg.com (Ryan Allen)
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

At 15:38 2/12/99 , you wrote:
>Also, report him to the Chamber of Commerce, the Better Business Bureau,
>etc. Call your district attorney to see if any laws were broken (such as
>fraud). My sincere sympathies.

I agree!! This is an example of fraudulent business practices! There is
NO WAY a truck can be sold as "retail" when it's not. When the truck comes
it, it's compared to a ready list the dealership receives every week. The
VIN is compared to that list, and that list contains the name of the person
ordering it (if ordered), options, etc.
The manager should be shot and killed! This is no way to do business. I
would also put in a call for a face to face with the OWNER of the
dealership, and have a lawyer represent you in this meeting. This will get
them thinking!
Good luck and God speed!

Ryan
Intranet Specialist
Intranet Development Team (IDTeam)
Allen Systems Group
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.asg.com

## Please visit my Personal Page ##
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:32:24 -0500
From: Gary & Nancy Brinck
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: PSD Starting - WAV file

Thanks, John. I couldn't access directly with the URL you posted, but I
went to the site and downloaded it myself.

That's pretty much how mine starts all the time as well - perhaps cranks
over an additional turn or two, but no more than that. Maybe mine is
normal, then.

Gary

> On the "The Ford Diesel
> Website" there is a Wav file of a PSD starting on a Cold Morning.
> (http:/www.abol.com/jlester/download.htm) I use this when my computer starts
> up, it nice to hear it rumble. My truck starts like this on a warm day, not
> a cold day.
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:25:09 -0500
From: psjlelliott juno.com
Subject: FTE 97up - F150 Fog Light Wiring

I recently purchased a 99 LD W.S. I'm wondering if anybody knows where
(or if?) I can find wiring for fog lights? I notice that the light
switch pulls out, like it would if the light option had been installed,
and couldn't help wondering if everything but the bulbs was in there
somewhere?

Thanks,

Pete

___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:02:24 -0700
From: "Don Lewoniuk"
Subject: FTE 97up - Warn steps

Sounds like a good idea. Anyone have any more comments to pass on regarding
Warn steps. The graphic on their web site leaves much to the imagination. A
lot of boards/steps fit different on the 150's because of the outward rather
than inward body curve at the bottom of the cab. How do the Warn steps deal
with this?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: August Varady [mailto:VaraAug sme.org]
> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 10:43 AM
> To: Late-Model F-150 Mailing List
> Subject: Re: 99 F150SC SureStep Nerf Bars
>
>

> Warn make a great and true step tube. It is actually removable for real
> tough off-roading.
>
> August Varady..........................................
> Society of Manufacturing Engineers
> List System Coordinator
> One SME Dr.
> Dearborn, MI 48121
> Phone: (313) 271-1500 Ext. 1415
> EMail: Varaaug SME.ORG
>
>

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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:11:14 -0800
From: "Matt Bailey"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Warn steps

Here's a comment,

I work for Warn Industries as a Tech CSR and own a 99 SD SC LB V-10.
Today my truck has a Warn 4x step on one side and a Proto-Type 4x board on
the other. If you have any questions on these products, feel free to ask.
Post em here or you can email me directly at mattb warn.com

Mattb


- -----Original Message-----
From: Don Lewoniuk
To: FTE97&up ; Late-Model F-150 Mailing List

Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 9:14 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - Warn steps


>Sounds like a good idea. Anyone have any more comments to pass on regarding
>Warn steps. The graphic on their web site leaves much to the imagination.
A
>lot of boards/steps fit different on the 150's because of the outward
rather
>than inward body curve at the bottom of the cab. How do the Warn steps deal
>with this?
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: August Varady [mailto:VaraAug sme.org]
>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 10:43 AM
>> To: Late-Model F-150 Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: 99 F150SC SureStep Nerf Bars
>>
>>
>
>> Warn make a great and true step tube. It is actually removable for real
>> tough off-roading.
>>
>> August Varady..........................................
>> Society of Manufacturing Engineers
>> List System Coordinator
>> One SME Dr.
>> Dearborn, MI 48121
>> Phone: (313) 271-1500 Ext. 1415
>> EMail: Varaaug SME.ORG
>>
>>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:17:50 -0600
From: Todd Styles
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Warn steps

Can you provide any pics? thanks, Todd.
===
Here's a comment,

I work for Warn Industries as a Tech CSR and own a 99 SD SC LB V-10.
Today my truck has a Warn 4x step on one side and a Proto-Type 4x board on
the other. If you have any questions on these products, feel free to ask.
Post em here or you can email me directly at mattb warn.com

Mattb
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:51:02 -0700
From: "Don Lewoniuk"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Warn steps

There's a couple at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.warn.com/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Todd Styles
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 11:18 AM
> To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Warn steps
>
>
> Can you provide any pics? thanks, Todd.
> ===

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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:50:38 PST
From: "Susan Ekstrom"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment

Hi all,

I'm just about to leave in an hour to get, and possibly, pick up a
leased truck. What is this FDAF Assessment? It is necessary? Or is this
just another ploy? If possible, can someone help me in the next 1/2
hour?

Thanks,

Sue

______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:56:06 -0700
From: Dale Ellis
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: PSD Hard Starting

Gary, did you try waiting longer after the wait light goes out?

Dale

At 2/14/99 07:44 PM, you wrote:
>> Also, do you see smoke after start indicating unburned fuel? Or it might
>> be that you are not getting fuel injected during the initial cranking.
>
>Yes, Dave, about the time the problem first occurred I began to get some
>smoke and smell. I attributed it to a poor tank of fuel cause the
>smoke/smell decreased later. I switched diesel stations from BP to Texaco.
>I watch it more closely now and it seems to me I'm getting slight smoke
>that I was not aware of before. But maybe I just wasn't paying close
>attention until I got suspicious
>--
> Gary
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:06:28 -0800
From: "Neil Plocek"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Quick fix before it's to late

I was just in my garage doing what guys do when they get a new
truck.....looking for anything that just doesn't seem right, and I noticed a
potential problem. I have the leather 40-20-40 split seats in my CC Super
Duty. I looked down at the outside edges of the seats and noticed that the
big coiled spring that flips the seat back forward has a sharp tip on it,
and is pressing against the leather cover on the seat cushion. (pressing
harder on the right seat than the left) It appears that over a period of
time this sharp point will wear a hole in the leather. So my plan is to go
to the parts store tomorrow and buy a couple of rubber caps that you use to
plug a vacuum port and slip them over the end of the spring. The spring is
fairly well hidden so I don't think these caps will be to obvious. A 2.00$
fix is much better than having holes in the seats a few years from now.

You all might want to take a look and see if you might be having the same
trouble. If you have any better ideas for a fix, please post.

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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:24:28 -0800
From: "Matt Bailey"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Warn steps

Are you looking for pix of F-150 of Super Duty with 4x boards or 4x steps?

Mattb



>Can you provide any pics? thanks, Todd.
>===
>Here's a comment,
>
> I work for Warn Industries as a Tech CSR and own a 99 SD SC LB V-10.
>Today my truck has a Warn 4x step on one side and a Proto-Type 4x board on
>the other. If you have any questions on these products, feel free to ask.
>Post em here or you can email me directly at mattb warn.com
>
>Mattb
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:33:01 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: FDAF Assessment

In a message dated 99-02-15 18:00:32 EST, you write:


ok now give me that in english and i will give you some insight.

RS

Hi all,

I'm just about to leave in an hour to get, and possibly, pick up a
leased truck. What is this FDAF Assessment? It is necessary? Or is this
just another ploy? If possible, can someone help me in the next 1/2
hour?
>>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:18:58 -0600
From: Todd Styles
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Warn steps

looking for something for a super duty super cab. it's just a little tall
for me. i'm not sure if i want a nerf bar setup or something like a molded
running board. trying to get some ideas.... thanks, todd.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Matt Bailey [SMTP:matthewb sprintmail.com]
> Sent:Monday, February 15, 1999 7:24 PM
> To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:Re: FTE 97up - Warn steps
>
> Are you looking for pix of F-150 of Super Duty with 4x boards or 4x steps?
>
> Mattb
>
>
>
> >Can you provide any pics? thanks, Todd.
> >===
> >Here's a comment,
> >
> > I work for Warn Industries as a Tech CSR and own a 99 SD SC LB V-10.
> >Today my truck has a Warn 4x step on one side and a Proto-Type 4x board
> on
> >the other. If you have any questions on these products, feel free to ask.
> >Post em here or you can email me directly at mattb warn.com
> >
> >Mattb
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
>
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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:34:11 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: EXPEDITION: 99X: $500/$800 over Invoice

Depends, is this a dealer that you have used for mechanical work before? Do
you have a good working relationship with the owner or service manager? I
probably could have saved one or two hundred bucks by really beating the
bushes for a lowball deal when I was shopping for my '99 F-350 and my '98
Expy, but since I now use one dealership, and get great service, I just
ordered the options I wanted and asked them what they could do. Last time
('99 F-350 4X4 V-10.....) they said the V-10 was hot and many dealers are
getting $800 over invoice. I said how about $400 over. We settled at $500
over within 30 seconds and everyone was, and is, happy. Because I plan to
keep buying my vehicles from this dealer (and they know it) and I get great
service, I expect, and get, a good price but I am not going to war over the
last $50 bucks. Besides, time is money. If you spend days and days hunting
for the absolute best deal after a reasonably good deal is presented, you
may find your return is less than your hourly rate! Not that you shouldn't
negotiate strongly, but determine your cost-benefit ratio (e.g., you save
$150 bucks but do not have a dealer you can count on for special treatment
when you really need it) and time-value of money (you spend 16 hours
negotiating to save $200 bucks = $12.50/hour. If you can make $25/hour you
are "losing" money) .


Keith



- -----Original Message-----
From: Justin Medlock
To: expedition intellisys.net
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 7:37 PM
Subject: EXPEDITION: 99X: $500/$800 over Invoice


>I'm new to the list - great list. I'm going to be selling my '97
>F150 to my parents (their's was stolen) and will be getting a '99
>X.
>
>I've contacted a local dealer (Dallas) and they say the best they
>can do is offer me $500 over invoice for a '99 XLT; or $800 over
>invoice for a '99 Eddie Bauer. I'll order from the factory and
>am trying to decide between the two. (I talked with a fleet
>salesman instead of a normal salesman)
>
>Is this a good deal? Or should I keep hunting for some other
>dealer who can beat this?
>
>regards,
>
>justin
>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________
>To unsubscribe send an email to
>majordomo intellisys.net with the message
>"unsubscribe expedition" or "unsubscribe expedition-digest"
>Contact vic san.rr.com if you have problems
>List homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.Xpedition.net

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Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:47:35 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: Posting instructions

List postings to either my admin or list owner addresses
has gotten out of control. Please take the time to read
the instructions (you'll find a link to them at the bottom
of *****every***** post!) as I don't get any please dealing
with emails in my inbox that don't belong there. If you
post to my box, I'll ignore it.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts

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Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:11:54 -0500
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