97up-list-digest Monday, February 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 041



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - Re: Mirrors
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!
Re: FTE 97up - Re: PSD Starting
RE: FTE 97up - FTE 97up- Enging pinging
FTE 97up - (no subject)
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
FTE 97up - Re: Mirrors
Re: FTE 97up - (no subject)
FTE 97up - Re: PSD Hard Starting
FTE 97up - Re: F350 Chassis vs Pickup

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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:30:10 EST
From: JudgeR aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Mirrors

I had the old style mirrors and switched the new ones are great !!!
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:33:39 EST
From: JudgeR aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

Talk to an attorney Its called breach of contract! Do not let them get away
with that!Let me know how you make out. the judge
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:49:34 -0500
From: "Bill Hanrahan"
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!

Charles, my sincere condolences on your ripoff. I know what it's like to
wait 4-5 months for your truck. I think George said it pretty well...I'm
not an attorney (I don't even play one on TV), but I'd definitely look into
the legal aspects. It seems to me you had a bona fide contract which was
broken. Best of luck with a bad situation.

Bill Hanrahan


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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:32:03 -0600
From: Bob Wickline
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: PSD Starting

My '99 has been that way since I owned it (15K now). I test drove several in the summer and everyone acted the same way; it takes about two seconds of cranking before it starts. I just assumed it was because of the electronic vs. mechanical fuel injection causing the delay. My '87 (with new glow plugs) would start within a second.

At 2/13/99 07:58 AM, you wrote:
>My 99 PSD seems to start harder than others I have overheard. When I
>first got it, it cranked for only about 2 turns before starting (after
>the WAIT light went out, of course). After a couple months, it began to
>take a couple more turns. Now it cranks several turns before starting,
>even when fully warmed up. Am I seeing the symptoms of a problem -
>maybe some failed glow plugs - or is this similar to what others are
>experiencing?
>
>It's hard to complain to Ford about "hard starting" when it still
>starts right up after 4-5 seconds, but when I hear someone else crank
>their PSD, it seems to start almost instantly. Comments?
>--
> Gary
> in Florida's Ocala National Forest



__ _____ ___ _ __
Bob "Wick" Wickline \ \ / /_ _/ __| |/ /
\ \/\/ / | | (__| '
wick f350.com \_/\_/ |___\___|_|\_\

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.f350.com/ (under construction)
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:37:44 -0800
From: "Sutton, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - FTE 97up- Enging pinging

I, as well as a good friend of mine, had the same problem with our 1998
4.6's when fall rolled around. My buddy took his into Ford and they told
him that this was very common with the 4.6's as the weather gets colder. To
fix it, they removed a small plastic plug that effectively backs the timing
a couple of degrees.

This plug looks just like the one you remove to set the base timing on the
5.0 and 5.8 (distributor equipped) motors. If you are familiar with this
plug you can probably find it. It is buried, close to the firewall and
below the electric junction box, on the passenger side of the truck. If you
are not familiar with it, I would just drop by your Ford service center.
They'll probably fix it immediately-it only takes a minute.

I removed mine as well, and neither of us has had a pinging problem with 87
octane since. I didn't notice any loss of power or mileage either. I would
fix this as soon as possible-pinging really gives your rings a beating!

Feel free to email me if you have any questions.

Regards,
Mike Sutton
mike.sutton gsc.gte.com
(919) 549-1215

-----Original Message-----
From:max gaub [SMTP:airplane999 hotmail.com]
Sent:Saturday, February 13, 1999 3:20 AM
To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject:FTE 97up - FTE 97up- Enging pinging

Hi all,

Although you didn't say what size engine, or if you physically
checked
the ignition timing, or if the truck has excessive carbon build-up
(all
common reasons) Assuming you have, as since most all of the v-8's
were
about the same. Your problem is probably the EGR position sensor. My

friend had a 93 5.0 truck and it was doing what you truck is doing.
Your
truck is probably even running a bit hotter than usual too. If the
comp.
does not know how open the egr valve is, it will either fulll
advance or
no advance depending on which position the sensor went bad in (valve

open or valve closed), causing the engine to detonate.

Hope this helps some.

Max

My 250 SD PSd should be here on the the 22 or 23 of Feb. (or so I
was
told) hopefully...

>Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:07:40 -0600
>From: "Bud Feuless & Miki Magara"
>Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Computer re-learning and pinging
>
>Hey guys...
>
>My truck pings pretty badly when towing these days and will ping in

normal
>driving if I use 87. It will also idle rough after a warm start.
I've
been
>using 91-93 for some time and thought it might be worthwhile to
start
by
>re-learning the computer, and then take it from there. My thinking
is
that,
>by using the high octane, I might have taught it to believe that
the
knock
>sensor was dead. My octane level might have been so high that the
computer
>could not force the engine to ping, no matter how far it advanced
the
>timing. This would cause the computer to assume that the knock
sensor
was
>dead, since it could not get a ping. This could cause the computer
to
use a
>preset ignition retard timing, which might hurt performance and
also
>actually cause pinging (I think) with low octane gas.
>
>Well, I ran the tank down, put in 87 and disconnected the battery
for
about
>8 hours this weekend and reconnected. I thought I had it, but the
pinging
>is back today with 87. I'm not sure if I left the battery
disconnected
long
>enough and now need to look for other problems, or if I did not
leave
it
>disconnected long enough. I did not experience the "engine rev
hunting" I
>expected at startup. I would have expected this while the CPU was
in
>learning mode for the first 100 miles. Anyone know how long I need
to
leave
>the battery disconnected?
>
>By the way, I'm not saying this is necessarily the problem. I'm
just
going
>through an initial process of eliminating problems that could
confuse
the
>issue. Once I go through the top-level stuff, I'll be able to get
into
the
>nitty-gritty and know that I am not being confused by the computer
or
other
>aspects.
>
>Your thoughts, as always, are appreciated!
>
>Regards, Bud
>
>
>


______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:35:11 EST
From: JPatte5238 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - (no subject)

Gary,

I hope I have the right person, PSD starting. On the "The Ford Diesel
Website" there is a Wav file of a PSD starting on a Cold Morning.
(http:/www.abol.com/jlester/download.htm) I use this when my computer starts
up, it nice to hear it rumble. My truck starts like this on a warm day, not
a cold day.
Write me if something went wrong.

John Patterson
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:52:41 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

Ordered F250 Super Duty V10 Auto 3.73LS 4x4 LARIAT.

The general manager sold it on the same day it was delivered.

Now if I re-order I'm back in line behind everyone else. And how do I
trust this guy. What's stopping him from doing the same thing to me again?
(The truck that came in that they sold matched exactly my order number
that I placed $500 as deposit on last Sept'98.)


Nathan, what's the current wait, still three to five months? I'm hearing
10 weeks from others who have just placed new orders for V10 Lariats,
at least that's what their truck dealership is telling them anyway.

Thanks,

Charles.

Union Auto wrote:

> What exactly did you order? I wouldn't believe the aerostar (Windstar)
> story as Ford isn't overly helpful on anything anymore.
>
> Nathan Bernard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Abraham
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
>
> >I called Ford Customer Care's 800 number and they too were sorry,
> >but - and get this, he said "this is a dealership issue, the Ford Company
> >met their commitment by delivering the truck to the dealer on time."
> >
> >I next went in person to the dealership, here is their name by-the-way:
> >
> >Sycamore Auto Center (Ford/Mazda), INC.
> >Hwy. 23 and Coltonville Rd.
> >Sycamore, Illinois 60178
> >
> >I spoke with the sales manager, the guy I placed the order with originally.
> >The general manager never appeared.
> >
> >As far as my truck its history - somewhere now in Wisconsin drives a
> >happy trucker. Anyway, first, I needed transportation, which he quickly
> >arranged ('99 Contour) for "as long as I want". Next, I asked how he was
> >going to make it right to me. Could he get me the same truck without the
> >4-1/2 month wait. Here's what he said; and Nathan can best judge if there
> >is any truth or hope in this.
> >
> >For the Chicago Auto Show, Sycamore Auto Center provided a Aerostar
> >or something like that to Ford especially for the show. He said "Aerostars"
> >are hard to get like Super Duty's, so now Ford owes them. So maybe he
> >can use this debt to push me to the front of the line if I re-order. He
> also has
> >
> >a loaded XLT coming in next week that I would get first crack at. It has
> >about the same features plus snow plow package, 4.10 rear end. Just no
> >leather or overhead console or tow package (he'd add the tow at a local
> >shop).
> >
> >Oops, here's my ride back to pickup the loaner, I'll be back on Monday
> >with an update.
> >
> >Charles.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >The general manager never came out to
> >apologize. Anyway,
> >
> >George Rigney wrote:
> >
> >> Charles,
> >>
> >> Please name the dealership, salesman, & location. People on the list who
> >> live in this area should spread the word on what a scumbag the guy is.
> >> Also, report him to the Chamber of Commerce, the Better Business Bureau,
> >> etc. Call your district attorney to see if any laws were broken (such as
> >> fraud). My sincere sympathies. Anyone who lives in his area who knows
> of a
> >> trustworthy dealer, please speak up. That salesman is so low he ought to
> >> run for president.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Charles Abraham [mailto:abrahamc agcs.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 2:01 PM
> >> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> >> Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
> >>
> >> My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
> >> was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".
> >>
> >> All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
> >> I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
> >> I'm at a lost what to do next.
> >>
> >> Talk to you after I recover,
> >>
> >> Charles.
> >>
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> >
> >
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>
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:33:50 EST
From: BFunk33 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Mirrors

The towing mirrors probably won't do anything functional for you while you're
towing a 22' boat. They work well for towing something like a travel trailer
or 5th wheel, or other boxy trailer, though, where the regular mirror would be
blocked.

Bill

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:


From: Gary & Nancy Brinck
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Mirrors

> If you were to own a SD Crew Cab Short Bed and use it as your everyday
> vehicle and also use it as a tow vehicle for a 22 foot boat in the summers,
> would you order the trailer tow mirrors or stick with the regular mirrors?
> >>
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:30:30 -0800
From: "Neil Plocek"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - (no subject)

And I thought I was the only sick person that had the 7.3 Wav play when
windows starts up!

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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:44:06 -0500
From: Gary & Nancy Brinck
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: PSD Hard Starting

> Also, do you see smoke after start indicating unburned fuel? Or it might
> be that you are not getting fuel injected during the initial cranking.

Yes, Dave, about the time the problem first occurred I began to get some
smoke and smell. I attributed it to a poor tank of fuel cause the
smoke/smell decreased later. I switched diesel stations from BP to Texaco.
I watch it more closely now and it seems to me I'm getting slight smoke
that I was not aware of before. But maybe I just wasn't paying close
attention until I got suspicious
- --
Gary
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Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:48:47 -0500
From: Gary & Nancy Brinck
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: F350 Chassis vs Pickup....

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