97up-list-digest Saturday, February 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 039



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
FTE 97up - The death of a mirror
Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror
Re: FTE 97up - A.R.E. Deck lids
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror
Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror
FTE 97up - F450/F550 verus medium-duty trucks
Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror
FTE 97up - RE.Railroad Mixing Yard to Dealership Time?
FTE 97up - FTE 97up- Enging pinging
Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:00:17 -0500
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

Union Auto wrote:
>
> First off you want to price both anyway. I sold a Regular cab 4x4 the other
> day and due to the fact that he wanted trailer towing and the 8 ply tires
> (LT) on the F-150 the F-250LD was only $200 more. As for differences I'll
> compare Regular cab 4x4's XLT's (but all others should be comparable in the
> same way.):
>
> Frame: F-150: Ladder type with front box section, 6 crossmembers, 50,000
> PSI steel.
> F-250: Same
> F-150 Section Modulus: 3.98 Cubic inch
> F-250 4.0 Cubic Inch
>
SNIP
> Nathan Bernard
> Union Auto, Inc.

Nathan,
Thanks for the info. One more question, what is Section
Modulus?

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:17 -0500
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

"Todd E." wrote:
>
> If you are even thinking of the F-250 LD, get an F-250 SD the cost is very
> similar, at least it was 6 months ago, within a few hundred $, the LD is
> just a toned up F-150 where as the SD is a toned down F-450. The only
> reason to buy the 250 LD is because you really like the look of the LD
> better than the SD, but still need the added payload features.
>

Todd,

My reason for the inquiry was to determine if the 250LD
frame was stronger than the 150. I presently lease a 97
F150 SuperCab XLT 4x4, that goes back in May. I have so
far bent the frame twice when off road. Launched off a Sand
Dune if you are curious. I fear that the SD would be too
heavy to play in the sand. In all fairness to the SD I will
check it out to compare with the LD's but I have a Cap, Nerf
Bars and other accessories unique to the F-150. This is my
First truck and I have since learned that trucks are not as
tough as I thought.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:09:53 -0800
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

I know you like to modify the truck. The 7 bolt pattern on the 250 LD
wheels may be hard to find after market. 150 has much. SD aftermarket is
*really* picking up. When the excursion shows up, I suspect things
will really heat up.

I see the 250 LD around, but very rarely.



Jean Marc Chartier wrote:

> "Todd E." wrote:
> >
> > If you are even thinking of the F-250 LD, get an F-250 SD the cost is very
> > similar, at least it was 6 months ago, within a few hundred $, the LD is
> > just a toned up F-150 where as the SD is a toned down F-450. The only
> > reason to buy the 250 LD is because you really like the look of the LD
> > better than the SD, but still need the added payload features.
> >
>
> Todd,
>
> My reason for the inquiry was to determine if the 250LD
> frame was stronger than the 150. I presently lease a 97
> F150 SuperCab XLT 4x4, that goes back in May. I have so
> far bent the frame twice when off road. Launched off a Sand
> Dune if you are curious. I fear that the SD would be too
> heavy to play in the sand. In all fairness to the SD I will
> check it out to compare with the LD's but I have a Cap, Nerf
> Bars and other accessories unique to the F-150. This is my
> First truck and I have since learned that trucks are not as
> tough as I thought.
>
> Regards
>
> Jean Marc Chartier
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:33:19 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

Honestly, I don't know. I'd guess that it has something to do with
thickness.

Nathan

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jean Marc Chartier
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350


>Union Auto wrote:
>>
>> First off you want to price both anyway. I sold a Regular cab 4x4 the
other
>> day and due to the fact that he wanted trailer towing and the 8 ply tires
>> (LT) on the F-150 the F-250LD was only $200 more. As for differences
I'll
>> compare Regular cab 4x4's XLT's (but all others should be comparable in
the
>> same way.):
>>
>> Frame: F-150: Ladder type with front box section, 6 crossmembers, 50,000
>> PSI steel.
>> F-250: Same
>> F-150 Section Modulus: 3.98 Cubic inch
>> F-250 4.0 Cubic Inch
>>
>SNIP
>> Nathan Bernard
>> Union Auto, Inc.
>
>Nathan,
> Thanks for the info. One more question, what is Section
>Modulus?
>
>Regards
>
>Jean Marc Chartier
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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:00:41 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".

All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
I'm at a lost what to do next.

Talk to you after I recover,

Charles.



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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:19:59 -0600
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

Wow! I sure would not take "I'm Sorry" as enough of an answer/action to
them selling your truck. Worst case, I would insist that they order you
another truck, provide you a free loaner truck for the duration, and take
at least $1000 off the cost of the truck for your trouble.


Mike Strukel
2 months and still waiting for my F250SD

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Charles Abraham [SMTP:abrahamc agcs.com]
> Sent:Friday, February 12, 1999 2:01 PM
> To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
>
> My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
> was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".
>
> All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
> I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
> I'm at a lost what to do next.
>
> Talk to you after I recover,
>
> Charles.
>
>
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:38:24 -0600
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

Charles,

Please name the dealership, salesman, & location. People on the list who
live in this area should spread the word on what a scumbag the guy is.
Also, report him to the Chamber of Commerce, the Better Business Bureau,
etc. Call your district attorney to see if any laws were broken (such as
fraud). My sincere sympathies. Anyone who lives in his area who knows of a
trustworthy dealer, please speak up. That salesman is so low he ought to
run for president.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Charles Abraham [mailto:abrahamc agcs.com]
Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 2:01 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!


My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".

All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
I'm at a lost what to do next.

Talk to you after I recover,

Charles.



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:35:29 -0500 (EST)
From: "Frank Bures"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:19:59 -0600, Strukel, Mike wrote:

>Wow! I sure would not take "I'm Sorry" as enough of an answer/action to
>them selling your truck. Worst case, I would insist that they order you
>another truck, provide you a free loaner truck for the duration, and take
>at least $1000 off the cost of the truck for your trouble.
>

I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like a breach of contract to me.
You should talk to a lawyer and consider suing their pants (and more) off.


>
>Mike Strukel
> 2 months and still waiting for my F250SD
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:Charles Abraham [SMTP:abrahamc agcs.com]
>> Sent:Friday, February 12, 1999 2:01 PM
>> To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> Subject:FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
>>
>> My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
>> was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".
>>
>> All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
>> I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
>> I'm at a lost what to do next.
>>
>> Talk to you after I recover,
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>>
>>
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

Frank Bures, Dept. of Chemistry, University of Toronto, M5S 3H6
fbures chem.toronto.edu
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://frank.chem.utoronto.ca/electronics

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:38:09 -0600
From: "Christopher T. Patrick"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

i would talk to the dealership owner.. then to ford directly.


At 02:19 PM 2/12/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Wow! I sure would not take "I'm Sorry" as enough of an answer/action to
>them selling your truck. Worst case, I would insist that they order you
>another truck, provide you a free loaner truck for the duration, and take
>at least $1000 off the cost of the truck for your trouble.
>
>
>Mike Strukel
> 2 months and still waiting for my F250SD
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:Charles Abraham [SMTP:abrahamc agcs.com]
>> Sent:Friday, February 12, 1999 2:01 PM
>> To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
>> Subject:FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
>>
>> My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
>> was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".
>>
>> All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
>> I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
>> I'm at a lost what to do next.
>>
>> Talk to you after I recover,
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>>
>>
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
==========================================
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
CHRIS PATRICK | || \
360 ci ______| _||___\____
Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
BOGGERS *** ***
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:10:18 -0600
From: ywozniak kiwi.dep.anl.gov (Todd Wozniak)
Subject: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror

If you were to own a SD Crew Cab Short Bed and use it as your everyday
vehicle and also use it as a tow vehicle for a 22 foot boat in the summers,
would you order the trailer tow mirrors or stick with the regular mirrors?

The truck will fit in the garage but I am concerned that in everyday
driving the large mirrors might run into things.

I once lost a mirror to a garage door and it was quite a funny site if you
were the observer and not the check writer.

No, I am not careless, the wall just jumped out at me when I wasn't looking.

How far are they away from power retractable trailer tow mirrors? I like
the increased mirror area but don't want to replace one.

Also, has anyone tried to fit through a drivethru teller window at the bank?

Thanks,

Todd W.
Chicago


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:29:30 -0600
From: "Christopher T. Patrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror

At 03:10 PM 2/12/99 -0600, you wrote:
>If you were to own a SD Crew Cab Short Bed and use it as your everyday
>vehicle and also use it as a tow vehicle for a 22 foot boat in the summers,
>would you order the trailer tow mirrors or stick with the regular mirrors?

how wide is your boat. i tow my 18' boat behind my f-150 with stock mirrors
and have no problems.
==========================================
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
CHRIS PATRICK | || \
360 ci ______| _||___\____
Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
BOGGERS *** ***
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:38:49 -0800
From: "Jose Pomposo Jr."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - A.R.E. Deck lids

Did you have to remove the railing and tailgate mouldings to have the lid
fit?
- -----Original Message-----
From: kathryn phillips
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 5:00 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - A.R.E. Deck lids


>I have had a A.R.E. deck lid on my 98 F-150 for over a year, the paint
>and fit are still great. The A.R.E. lid was worth the money. My truck
>is moon light blue and the paint matches almost perfect.
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:16:56 -0800
From: Gene Ball
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

GO POSTAL!!!!!!!

Strukel, Mike wrote:

> Wow! I sure would not take "I'm Sorry" as enough of an answer/action to
> them selling your truck. Worst case, I would insist that they order you
> another truck, provide you a free loaner truck for the duration, and take
> at least $1000 off the cost of the truck for your trouble.
>
> Mike Strukel
> 2 months and still waiting for my F250SD
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Charles Abraham [SMTP:abrahamc agcs.com]
> > Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 2:01 PM
> > To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> > Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
> >
> > My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
> > was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".
> >
> > All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
> > I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
> > I'm at a lost what to do next.
> >
> > Talk to you after I recover,
> >
> > Charles.
> >
> >
> >
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:43:04 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

I called Ford Customer Care's 800 number and they too were sorry,
but - and get this, he said "this is a dealership issue, the Ford Company
met their commitment by delivering the truck to the dealer on time."

I next went in person to the dealership, here is their name by-the-way:

Sycamore Auto Center (Ford/Mazda), INC.
Hwy. 23 and Coltonville Rd.
Sycamore, Illinois 60178

I spoke with the sales manager, the guy I placed the order with originally.
The general manager never appeared.

As far as my truck its history - somewhere now in Wisconsin drives a
happy trucker. Anyway, first, I needed transportation, which he quickly
arranged ('99 Contour) for "as long as I want". Next, I asked how he was
going to make it right to me. Could he get me the same truck without the
4-1/2 month wait. Here's what he said; and Nathan can best judge if there
is any truth or hope in this.

For the Chicago Auto Show, Sycamore Auto Center provided a Aerostar
or something like that to Ford especially for the show. He said "Aerostars"
are hard to get like Super Duty's, so now Ford owes them. So maybe he
can use this debt to push me to the front of the line if I re-order. He also has

a loaded XLT coming in next week that I would get first crack at. It has
about the same features plus snow plow package, 4.10 rear end. Just no
leather or overhead console or tow package (he'd add the tow at a local
shop).

Oops, here's my ride back to pickup the loaner, I'll be back on Monday
with an update.

Charles.




The general manager never came out to
apologize. Anyway,

George Rigney wrote:

> Charles,
>
> Please name the dealership, salesman, & location. People on the list who
> live in this area should spread the word on what a scumbag the guy is.
> Also, report him to the Chamber of Commerce, the Better Business Bureau,
> etc. Call your district attorney to see if any laws were broken (such as
> fraud). My sincere sympathies. Anyone who lives in his area who knows of a
> trustworthy dealer, please speak up. That salesman is so low he ought to
> run for president.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Abraham [mailto:abrahamc agcs.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 2:01 PM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!
>
> My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
> was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".
>
> All I have to show for waiting four and one half months is "sorry".
> I even sold my car last week in anticipation of delivery this week.
> I'm at a lost what to do next.
>
> Talk to you after I recover,
>
> Charles.
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:51:15 -0800
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Dirty Trick!!!

WOW!

Do you have the deal in writing? If not, all bets are off. If you do,
here is what I would do if I were in your shoes:

I would contact the states Attorney General first. I would not bother with
the BBB. They can't do more than put the dealer on the "bad-boy" list.
They have no clout. If the AG can help, great. If not, go to a lawyer. I
would also get a hold of the zone manager. I would not bother with Ford
Customer Care. They are about as worthless as anything I have encountered,
imho. Talk to the dealers' owners.

Dealers hate to trade out vehicles, but they can. I presume your SD is
specialized and hard to come by. Is there anything close in another lot
that would work for you? Since the dealer FU'ed you might be able to get a
sweet deal on another SD. If you get the zone manager involved, (s)he may
be able to get you a truck from another lot.

I would not go postal. It solves nothing, and spending time in jail won't
help your cause.

You can always stage a protest in front of the dealer, best on a busy day.
Get your friends involved, of course.

I would not do too much at once. Most agencies will not bother with your
case if you already have somebody else working on it.

Good Luck.

- -Julian (I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV)


At 14:00 02/12/99 -0600, you wrote:
>My dealer just told me that my Super Duty came in yesterday - but
>was sold to someone by his general manager thinking it was "retail".
>


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:47:10 -0500
From: tsaint erols.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror

I was looking at a guy's truck at the local car wash. He tows a fifth wheel
trailer with his F350 but had the regular mirrors on it. I questioned him
and it turned out that he has the trailer tow mirrors but only puts them on
when using the fiver. Otherwise he uses the regualar mirrors. Not a bad
idea! They are easy to change, about a five minute job.

At 03:10 PM 2/12/99 -0600, you wrote:
>If you were to own a SD Crew Cab Short Bed and use it as your everyday
>vehicle and also use it as a tow vehicle for a 22 foot boat in the summers,
>would you order the trailer tow mirrors or stick with the regular mirrors?
>
>The truck will fit in the garage but I am concerned that in everyday
>driving the large mirrors might run into things.
>
>I once lost a mirror to a garage door and it was quite a funny site if you
>were the observer and not the check writer.
>
>No, I am not careless, the wall just jumped out at me when I wasn't looking.
>
>How far are they away from power retractable trailer tow mirrors? I like
>the increased mirror area but don't want to replace one.
>
>Also, has anyone tried to fit through a drivethru teller window at the bank?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Todd W.
>Chicago
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:54:49 PST
From: "Frank Spor"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror

Hi
My 99 F250 SD has plenty of mirror for most towing...I have not yet
tried the bank as My 96 F150 was a tight fit...There is a turn about 15
ft from the window, and an ATM island on the right....I may not "go
there"

I would have to agree the "elephants ears" could Flap the 9 foot garage
door easily....I have also had to adjust full up on my garage door
opener, and I have 8 foot tall doors.

ALL VERY valid questions....If you can find one to sit in....BEFORE you
buy it, DO IT.


Frank

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:34:45 EST
From: RAMWORKER aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

Jean,

Nathan is partially correct about the thickness of the material.
Section Modulus is a shorthand evaluation of the strength of the
SHAPE of the material. They are using high strength steel for frames
and body panels these days, generally 50,000 ksi rather than the old
standard 36,000 ksi stuff. This allows thinner materials with less
weight while maintaining rigidity. The material has a fixed strength
from the steel mill, hence the ksi rating, the section modulus
allows us to evaluate the strength of the shape that the material
has been rolled into. That shape naturally includes the thickness
of the material.

In the instance of the frame, it is generally rolled into what we
call a "C" shape i.e. channel, channels have very good section
modulus in the XX axis and very poor in the YY axis, therefore
they are used in a vertical position, to take advantage of the
excellent value in the XX axis. Since there are two channels
to a frame, the body structure is used to tie the frame rails together
to effectively more than double their relatively poor strength in the
YY axis. If you're familiar with the terms "web" and "flange," bending
against the web is in the XX axis, and against the flange is in the
YY axis.

In the old days, they used to "box" the frame rails on convertibles
and station wagons to add strength to the frame. "Boxing" the frame
meant that a plate was used to close the open end of the channel
to turn it into what we call a "rectangular tube." That procedure
basically doubles the strength of the frame member.

I'm sorry about the length of this post, but I am in the steel
fabrication business, and I get a little excited about subjects
dear to my heart. Let me know if my explanation is unclear or
if you need clarifications.

Best Regards,
Robert

In a message dated 2/12/99 9:11:39 AM Central Standard Time,
jmc.chartier sympatico.ca writes:

> Union Auto wrote:
> >
> > First off you want to price both anyway. I sold a Regular cab 4x4 the
> other
> > day and due to the fact that he wanted trailer towing and the 8 ply tires
> > (LT) on the F-150 the F-250LD was only $200 more. As for differences I'
> ll
> > compare Regular cab 4x4's XLT's (but all others should be comparable in
> the
> > same way.):
> >
> > Frame: F-150: Ladder type with front box section, 6 crossmembers, 50,000
> > PSI steel.
> > F-250: Same
> > F-150 Section Modulus: 3.98 Cubic inch
> > F-250 4.0 Cubic Inch
> >
> SNIP
> > Nathan Bernard
> > Union Auto, Inc.
>
> Nathan,
> Thanks for the info. One more question, what is Section
> Modulus?
>
> Regards
>
> Jean Marc Chartier
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:37:27 -0800
From: Gene Ball
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror

Todd, I have a 4x4 shortbed crewcab, with the small mirrors!
I also pull a 23ft speedboat and I also live just a little south of chicago!
The mirrors suck! I wish I had the big ones!
I test drove a SD with the tow mirrors they were nice you can see very well!
But they are a pain sticking way out?
It's like this one looks better one works better?
I have pulled my boat 2 times just to check things out!
The truck is 1 month old the boat is 4 months old.
Email me and tell me about your boat where do you boat
I am new to boating
Gene

Todd Wozniak wrote:

> If you were to own a SD Crew Cab Short Bed and use it as your everyday
> vehicle and also use it as a tow vehicle for a 22 foot boat in the summers,
> would you order the trailer tow mirrors or stick with the regular mirrors?
>
> The truck will fit in the garage but I am concerned that in everyday
> driving the large mirrors might run into things.
>
> I once lost a mirror to a garage door and it was quite a funny site if you
> were the observer and not the check writer.
>
> No, I am not careless, the wall just jumped out at me when I wasn't looking.
>
> How far are they away from power retractable trailer tow mirrors? I like
> the increased mirror area but don't want to replace one.
>
> Also, has anyone tried to fit through a drivethru teller window at the bank?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd W.
> Chicago
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:50:09 -0800
From: Mike Seltzer
Subject: FTE 97up - F450/F550 verus medium-duty trucks

I'm going to be full-timing in a 5th Wheel RV when I retire soon. So,
I'm in the market for a truck. Here is how I intend to use the truck.

I will be towing the 5th-wheel trailer weighing 18,000 for, maybe,
one-third the truck's mileage. The other two-thirds of the driving will
be without the trailer, as my only vehicle. I anticipate keeping this
rig for five years and doing between 100,000 and 150,000 miles in that
time.

I need to have legal seating (seat belts) for five adult passengers.

When towing, the truck should be capable of going up a grade at a
reasonable speed. When going down the grade, it should be able to hold a
reasonable speed without brake-fade. I would not want a truck that
didn't have exhaust brakes. I will be taking the truck and trailer on
gravel and wash-board dirt roads.

When not towing, I want a runabout that I can take into the big city
without hassles. The smaller the truck, the better. The more
maneuverable the truck, the better. I would like a truck that can park
in a grocery store's marked parking space. I want a runabout that can do
the freeway comfortably.

I have always had a manual transmission and I'm too old to change to an
automatic, even if it's supposed to be better for my needs.

I don't want much for one vehicle. (smile)

So here's my questions:

What are the advantages/disadvantages of a cab-over-engine versus a
conventional cab?

Why is having a long-wheel base important. I see many tractors with
short-wheel bases.

I know what a crew-cab is. I don't know what a sleeper is. Can a sleeper
be configured to comfortably and legally seat passengers? Cost is an
issue. I can't afford the crew-cab Freightliners or Internationals. And
I have my doubts that they are what I want for a runabout.

One truck that I'm considering, because it's easy to get info over the
internet, is the Ford F450/F550 crew-cab 4x4 chassis. Besides putting on
a 60 cab-to-axle hot-shot body, it would need an aftermarket exhaust
brake and, because of it's rear-axle gear ratio, an aftermarket
overdrive unit to do the freeway driving as a runabout comfortably. Does
Ford recommend a particular exhaust brake or does an exhaust brake void
the warranty?

A couple of RVers are using the UD-1800 with a sleeper and fifth-wheel
hot shot body. They say it's the best all-round compromise. Has
factory-standard exhaust brakes (manual transmission). A bit weak going
up a grade but doable. Will do everything I need as
well as can be expected. Can do the city thing better than the crew-cab
F450/550.

I'm reading a lot about how the computer learns driving patterns. I will
have two extremely different driving patterns. How will the computer
deal with it? How important are the differences to performance?

What else should I be considering. Where can I get my questions asked.
Please don't send me to a truck salesman.

Mike Seltzer
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:49:27 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - The death of a mirror

In a message dated 2/12/99 7:51:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, tsaint erols.com
writes:



i cant see the need for the the tow mirrors unless you tow a big tag, 30 ft or
more or a goose/ fifth wheel , i can see fine with my regular size ones.

RSR Inc.

I was looking at a guy's truck at the local car wash. He tows a fifth wheel
trailer with his F350 but had the regular mirrors on it. I questioned him
and it turned out that he has the trailer tow mirrors but only puts them on
when using the fiver. Otherwise he uses the regualar mirrors. Not a bad
idea! They are easy to change, about a five minute job.
>>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:04:48 -0500
From: "tc73"
Subject: FTE 97up - RE.Railroad Mixing Yard to Dealership Time?

A truck driver here in upstate NY said their yard is burried with cars and
trucks waiting to be delivered to dealers. All three lots are full

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:19:33 PST
From: "max gaub"
Subject: FTE 97up - FTE 97up- Enging pinging

Hi all,

Although you didn't say what size engine, or if you physically checked
the ignition timing, or if the truck has excessive carbon build-up (all
common reasons) Assuming you have, as since most all of the v-8's were
about the same. Your problem is probably the EGR position sensor. My
friend had a 93 5.0 truck and it was doing what you truck is doing. Your
truck is probably even running a bit hotter than usual too. If the comp.
does not know how open the egr valve is, it will either fulll advance or
no advance depending on which position the sensor went bad in (valve
open or valve closed), causing the engine to detonate.

Hope this helps some.

Max

My 250 SD PSd should be here on the the 22 or 23 of Feb. (or so I was
told) hopefully...

>Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:07:40 -0600
>From: "Bud Feuless & Miki Magara"
>Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Computer re-learning and pinging
>
>Hey guys...
>
>My truck pings pretty badly when towing these days and will ping in
normal
>driving if I use 87. It will also idle rough after a warm start. I've
been
>using 91-93 for some time and thought it might be worthwhile to start
by
>re-learning the computer, and then take it from there. My thinking is
that,
>by using the high octane, I might have taught it to believe that the
knock
>sensor was dead. My octane level might have been so high that the
computer
>could not force the engine to ping, no matter how far it advanced the
>timing. This would cause the computer to assume that the knock sensor
was
>dead, since it could not get a ping. This could cause the computer to
use a
>preset ignition retard timing, which might hurt performance and also
>actually cause pinging (I think) with low octane gas.
>
>Well, I ran the tank down, put in 87 and disconnected the battery for
about
>8 hours this weekend and reconnected. I thought I had it, but the
pinging
>is back today with 87. I'm not sure if I left the battery disconnected
long
>enough and now need to look for other problems, or if I did not leave
it
>disconnected long enough. I did not experience the "engine rev
hunting" I
>expected at startup. I would have expected this while the CPU was in
>learning mode for the first 100 miles. Anyone know how long I need to
leave
>the battery disconnected?
>
>By the way, I'm not saying this is necessarily the problem. I'm just
going
>through an initial process of eliminating problems that could confuse....


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