97up-list-digest Saturday, January 30 1999 Volume 02 : Number 025



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - 99 F-250 Superduty Diesel - Selling
FTE 97up - Bed liner, hitch install
FTE 97up - Re:Removing stock tires
Re:FTE 97up - Bug, Mud and Bed Protectors
Re: FTE 97up - cab steps
RE: FTE 97up - Bed liner, hitch install
FTE 97up - which gears for PSD?
FTE 97up - For whom does the bell toll? (A rant!)
FTE 97up - My sincerest apologies...
FTE 97up - 99 SuperDuty Gas Milage
Re: FTE 97up - 99 SuperDuty Gas Milage
Re: FTE 97up - 99 SuperDuty Gas Milage
Re: FTE 97up - 99 F-250 Superduty Diesel - Selling
FTE 97up - Re: Interest Rates and Financing
FTE 97up - Re: Tracking delivery 99 SD / Interest rates
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Tracking delivery 99 SD / Interest rates

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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:27:07 -0500
From: Michael
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 F-250 Superduty Diesel - Selling

Hi All,

I have decided to sell my 1999 Ford F-250 Superduty SuperCab 4x4 Turbo
Powerstroke Diesel Truck with Lariat Package. (whew) It was ordered with
a 3.73 LS Rear End, Towing Package and extended Towing Mirrors and has the
40/20/40 Leather Seat w/large console.

I ordered it and waited about 9 months for it to arrive. I ordered it
specifically to tow a camper around the country but since that, my plans
have changed and now I find that I won't be retiring as soon as I thought I
would and I'm sitting here with too much truck.

An additional $1500.00 in accessories have been added since picking up
the truck such as (5) Goodyear Wrangler 305.70R16 Tires (they are actually
33X12.50x16), Full Bedliner, Window Tinting, Custom Deep Aluminum Tool Box,
w/ single hinged lid, Front Bug Shield, and Spare Tire Kit.

It is a shortbed with 4 doors, not Crew cab, has been garage kept since
new and only has 1900 miles on it. (1600 of that was a short trip to
Tennessee over the Holidays)

I have many pictures available for viewing so if you are interested, I can
e-mail them to you, including the window sticker listing all options etc.

Also, please feel free to e-mail me with any questions you may have. It is
located in Cape
Coral, FL which is about 125 miles South of Tampa.

I have it advertised in the local newspaper for only $ 32,900.00 including
all accessories that were added.

Have a Great Day,

Michael
Cape Coral, FL


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:27:21 -0500
From: Bill
Subject: FTE 97up - Bed liner, hitch install

Does anyone have a bed liner and 5th wheel hitch?? Is the
hitch mounted on top of the liner or did you cutout in the
liner where the plates mount to the bed?? I've seen liners
with that have been cut for the plates, but seems like this
would allow water and dirt to build up under the liner and
cause problems. Maybe the spray on liner is a better
opition?? Thanks , Bill
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:36:03 -0500
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:Removing stock tires

.I replaced the tiny 235/85 street tires with some
255/85 all terrain tires.
Anyone want to sell their 235/85 R16 takeoffs? e.mail me direct
Lee Haefele

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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:11:08 -0500
From: "Mike McNany"
Subject: Re:FTE 97up - Bug, Mud and Bed Protectors

Charles Abraham wrote SNIP
shield, $230 and $80, respectively. Again, both would be Ford products (made
for Ford with
Ford's oval on them). What do you think?
Charles, the bedliners not too bad a price, specially if you want the Ford
markings. But there are other options you should consider. First I recently
saw, on TNN's new Truck show, a bedliner with vertical ridges along the
whole side to allow multiple divisions using 2X6's(or 8,10,ect) Second,
consider the spray on Rhino lining, a rubberized coating up to 3/8 inch
thick. You can get it in different colors, too. Over extended periods
plastic bedliners will rub the paint off and cause surface rust spots on the
bed. On that same show (different episode), they demonstrated a DIY version
of the spray on lining (for about 1/3 the cost of the Rhino type). The spray
on liner would make it easier to add things onto the bed, including 5th
wheel hitch or truck camper.
I haven't seen a bugshield with the Ford Oval but you're paying about $30-40
for that logo. Your money.
Mike

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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:15:09 -0500
From: "Mike McNany"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - cab steps

Try the www.ford.com accessories section. Neat stuff.
Mike

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Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:51:07 -0500
From: "jim schang"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Bed liner, hitch install

My Rhino liner was applied with the hitch rails bolted in place. Then the
liner material was removed from the as required to facilitate installation
of the hitch body. I checked around some before having the liner applied
and this seemed to be the norm.

jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Bill
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 7:27 AM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 97up - Bed liner, hitch install
>
>
> Does anyone have a bed liner and 5th wheel hitch?? Is the
> hitch mounted on top of the liner or did you cutout in the
> liner where the plates mount to the bed?? I've seen liners
> with that have been cut for the plates, but seems like this
> would allow water and dirt to build up under the liner and
> cause problems. Maybe the spray on liner is a better
> opition?? Thanks , Bill
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:02:45 -0500
From: davesomers
Subject: FTE 97up - which gears for PSD?

Should I go with the 4.10 or 3.73.
I'm getting the CrewCab DRW diesel 4x4 which will have 2000# permanent
cargo, plus trailer 20% of time (2000# empty, 5000# full) and an occasional
500# additional cargo. (I'm guessing this puts my truck around 10000#
regularly)
My '86 Chevy 350 (guessing 200hp, 300ftlbs) has 4.56 and a truck weight
around 8500#, plus trailer etc. This seems to be geared down nicely (but
boy does it eat gas when wound out on the highway)
How does that compare to the PSD (235hp, 500ftlbs) with either gear choice.

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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:27:32 -0400
From: RCThomson
Subject: FTE 97up - For whom does the bell toll? (A rant!)

It tolls for Cape Breton!

For those of you who haven't heard, the industrial (???) area of Cape
Breton was dealt a severe economic blow yesterday when the federal
government announced the demised of Devco (coal mining company). This
move wasn't totally unexpected, there had been speculation on Devco's
fate for at least the last five years, and in my opinion had to happen.
But...

A few facts...

Three weeks ago Ralph (?) Goodall, Minister of Natural Resources, was in
Sydney assuring miners and the general populace that no decision would
be made on Devco without local input. One week ago Russell MacLellen
(Premier of N.S.) assured Cape Bretoners that no decisions on Devco
would be made in the near future. On Wednesday the Ottawa Citizen
reported that Devco was history and this was denied by the dept. of
natural resources and they stated no decision would be made for at least
three weeks. Yesterday the miners and regional council were informed
that Goodall was flying in for an announcement and that they should
attend. At this meeting, Goodall, flanked by a bevy of RCMP officers
announced that Devco was history.

Devco employees 1700 people at the present moment. A total of 1200 will
lose there jobs in the next two years while the remaining miners face an
uncertain future as they wait and see if the feds can sell the one
remaining mine to private interests. This according to the experts will
likely happen as the one remaining (operating) mine (Prince Mine) has at
least 30 years of coal left in it and the flooded (but ready for
production) Donkin Mine has access to over 3 billion dollars worth of
high grade (low sulfer) coal.

Devco pumps about 300 million into the local economy each year. It is
estimated that it creates anywhere from 5000 to 8000 spin-off jobs in
the service and supply sectors. So as a result of this the industrial
area can expect to lose between 6500 and 9500 jobs, a massive hit for an
area with one of the highest rates of unemployment in the country
(officially at 19% but even politicians state it's closer to 40%).

The United Mine Workers of America have been trying desperately to
convince Ottawa that Devco can be run profitably. They believe the
problem is mismanagement citing the fact that while Devco's charter
allows for 2 V.P.s there are 8 currently working (all of them government
cronies). Personally I believe it's the UMW that is a fault in this
case. They steadfastly refused to consider a reduction in the workforce
which I feel would have made Devco a going concern. Similarly sized
mining operations in the U.S. have a work force of about 500!

Devco has a mature workforce. The compensation package allows for
approx. 300 miners to qualify for early retirement the rest will get a
severance package based on two weeks for every year worked. This has got
the miners into a rage as a full 70% of the workforce would have
qualified for early retirement in as little as three years from now.
They feel it's no accident the closing of Devco has been scheduled in
two years. On this point I feel badly for these guys. Most of these
miners have worked in the mines for thirty years and now at the age of
fifty are given a golden handshake and wished good luck. Their future
looks grim indeed!

The feds have promised money (Goodall stated yesterday that the total
package comes close to 500 million, but in reality most of that money
was already earmarked for this area in the form of E.I. payments, and
ACOA funding, in reality the amount of _new_ money amounts to 68 million
over four years) to help the industrial area through this disaster. This
is where I feel really cheated. An average of 17 million a year to
replace the 300 million that Devco represented is an insult. Why did
they even bother? What the hell are we supposed to do with it? Goodall
suggested using it to enhance tourism. !!! Why not it's about all we
have left!

End result? If you thought Cape Breton was a welfare state before...you
ain't seen nothing yet! Municipal leaders were talking of eroding tax
bases, Social workers were talking of the need to immediately set up
large food banks and a lot more funding for welfare. We're going to be
third world here folks.

Our premier is coming to Sydney today, it will be interesting to hear
what he has to say. Personally I wouldn't care to be in his shoes. The
miners will undoubtedly have a nasty reception planned for him. The
miners have a long history of militarism here, violence can not be ruled
out, in fact, I'd say it's inevitable.

Thus ends my rant for today...
- --
R.C.Thomson
Hillside Mira
Cape Breton, N.S.
Canada
mailto:rcthomson ns.sympatico.ca
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:13:16 -0400
From: RCThomson
Subject: FTE 97up - My sincerest apologies...

Please allow me to express my apologies on mistakenly including the Ford
97up-list in a letter meant to be sent only to my relatives. While the
events on Cape Breton Island might interest them I'm sure you good
folks have no interest in our local problems...

Cheers...
- --
R.C.Thomson
Hillside Mira
Cape Breton, N.S.
Canada
mailto:rcthomson ns.sympatico.ca
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:04:29 -0800
From: JJ Thomas
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 SuperDuty Gas Milage

I am looking at buying a 99 F-350 SuperDuty 4x4, reg cab. I like the Dumbo
Ear mirrors and the solid front axle hanging off leaf springs on a truck.
I have looked at the F-250's but for the price difference I would just
assume go with the F-350.

I really can't afford the Diesel PowerStroke. So it is out of the question.

My question is what is the mileage difference between the Gas V8 and V10?
If it is only a 1 or 2 MPG, then I will go with the V10, if it is
significant then I will go with the V8.

Also, what kind of after-market add on's are available for the V10? Once
the warranty runs out, I want to put headers, power chip, etc in the truck.
Are there enough V10's out there that the after market guys are coming out
with accessories?

TIA

Julian

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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:25:56 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99 SuperDuty Gas Milage

I got the V-10 on my F-350. It is a great engine. I do not know if there
is a mileage difference but in my experience a bigger engine can actually
save you money by being run less "hard", especially if you get a "smaller
"rear axle, which the bigger engine wallows, thus keeping your revs down. I
got the 3.73 LS, but you can even order the 4.30 gears if you want; however,
you will spend more on gas with the 4.30s. Anyway, so what if you get 1 or
2 MPG less, you are spending $30+K on a vehicle, so spend the extra dime and
make sure you don't end-up with buyer's dilemma (oh, how I wish I spent the
$264 more and got the V-10). Additionally, I have never had an engine as
smooth-running as the V-10. You can touch the steering wheel while idling
and you cannot even tell if it is running. No vibration. Lots of power
and, because it is a Triton, you can rev it way up to 5,000+RPM and just
runs stronger and happy as a clam.


Keith



- -----Original Message-----
From: JJ Thomas
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 3:07 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 SuperDuty Gas Milage


>I am looking at buying a 99 F-350 SuperDuty 4x4, reg cab. I like the Dumbo
>Ear mirrors and the solid front axle hanging off leaf springs on a truck.
>I have looked at the F-250's but for the price difference I would just
>assume go with the F-350.
>
>I really can't afford the Diesel PowerStroke. So it is out of the question.
>
>My question is what is the mileage difference between the Gas V8 and V10?
>If it is only a 1 or 2 MPG, then I will go with the V10, if it is
>significant then I will go with the V8.
>
>Also, what kind of after-market add on's are available for the V10? Once
>the warranty runs out, I want to put headers, power chip, etc in the truck.
>Are there enough V10's out there that the after market guys are coming out
>with accessories?
>
>TIA
>
>Julian
>
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:28:13 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99 SuperDuty Gas Milage

In reference to aftermarket stuff, get a copy of 4-wheeler magazine and yoiu
will see a zillion ads for aftermarket stuff. I have a snowplow on my F-350
and I just ordered new front springs for a 3.5" lift for the front (to level
it out) from Tuffcountry (www.tuffcountry.com).

Keith


- -----Original Message-----
From: JJ Thomas
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 3:07 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 SuperDuty Gas Milage


>I am looking at buying a 99 F-350 SuperDuty 4x4, reg cab. I like the Dumbo
>Ear mirrors and the solid front axle hanging off leaf springs on a truck.
>I have looked at the F-250's but for the price difference I would just
>assume go with the F-350.
>
>I really can't afford the Diesel PowerStroke. So it is out of the question.
>
>My question is what is the mileage difference between the Gas V8 and V10?
>If it is only a 1 or 2 MPG, then I will go with the V10, if it is
>significant then I will go with the V8.
>
>Also, what kind of after-market add on's are available for the V10? Once
>the warranty runs out, I want to put headers, power chip, etc in the truck.
>Are there enough V10's out there that the after market guys are coming out
>with accessories?
>
>TIA
>
>Julian
>
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:21:29 -0800
From: Gene Ball
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99 F-250 Superduty Diesel - Selling

Michael, I would really like to a picture of your truck with those tires on it.

I am looking at the same tires !
If you could send me a pic I would really appreciate it
Thanks Gene


Michael wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have decided to sell my 1999 Ford F-250 Superduty SuperCab 4x4 Turbo
> Powerstroke Diesel Truck with Lariat Package. (whew) It was ordered with
> a 3.73 LS Rear End, Towing Package and extended Towing Mirrors and has the
> 40/20/40 Leather Seat w/large console.
>
> I ordered it and waited about 9 months for it to arrive. I ordered it
> specifically to tow a camper around the country but since that, my plans
> have changed and now I find that I won't be retiring as soon as I thought I
> would and I'm sitting here with too much truck.
>
> An additional $1500.00 in accessories have been added since picking up
> the truck such as (5) Goodyear Wrangler 305.70R16 Tires (they are actually
> 33X12.50x16), Full Bedliner, Window Tinting, Custom Deep Aluminum Tool Box,
> w/ single hinged lid, Front Bug Shield, and Spare Tire Kit.
>
> It is a shortbed with 4 doors, not Crew cab, has been garage kept since
> new and only has 1900 miles on it. (1600 of that was a short trip to
> Tennessee over the Holidays)
>
> I have many pictures available for viewing so if you are interested, I can
> e-mail them to you, including the window sticker listing all options etc.
>
> Also, please feel free to e-mail me with any questions you may have. It is
> located in Cape
> Coral, FL which is about 125 miles South of Tampa.
>
> I have it advertised in the local newspaper for only $ 32,900.00 including
> all accessories that were added.
>
> Have a Great Day,
>
> Michael
> Cape Coral, FL
>
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:08:49 -0600
From: "Bud Feuless & Miki Magara"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Interest Rates and Financing

The note on the SD I almost bought was 6.75% with 20% down over 48 months
from Spectrum Federal Credit Union. - Bud


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:40:51 -0600
From: "Bud Feuless & Miki Magara"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Tracking delivery 99 SD / Interest rates

OK, I'll admit it, I have taken advantage of dealers... I'm so ashamed !!!


I will say I've never done this to a FORD dealer, but I have in the past
done the following:

"Gee, Mr. Dealer, I sure need to buy a car/truck for my work. I have an
allowance from my company that is pretty high, but they want to keep a
strict limit on capital expenditure, while expense does not matter as much.
Can you sell me a car for a REALLY low price, as long as I don't mind if you
make it up on the financing/interest rate?"

This always works. I always get a number below true dealer cost (once I let
them know that I know what that is and that my capital budget is below that
figure). Being in Texas, where interest penalties are illegal, I then go to
my credit union the next day and refinance the note. As a matter of fact,
my credit union even then gives me an extra 0.25% discount, because they are
so happy I'm "transferring" a loan from elsewhere .

OK, it's dirty pool, but it sure works! Don't try this in a state that
allows interest penalties though... and don't do it to any dealer that you
might even halfway think of driving past again. Myself, I actually have
only used the tactic twice, although friends have done it too. I have also
only done it when I have tried the reasonable approach and gotten the
scumbag run-arounds and decided I WANTED to !&!! that particular dealer
and/or salesperson. Now, what could make me want to do that..., let's try:

- - "OK! I'll sell you that Colt for $7000... let me go get my sales mangler's
approval..." (Goes into the break room and relaxes with coffee for 15
minutes of my time before returning). "Okay! Y'know, he told me I can't
actually sell that car for so little. He said I'll have to charge you $8000
and only if you buy it now." (this happened to me at a Do*g* dealer).

- - "Oh, that $500? That's for the Vehicle Protection Plan! It will protect
your car for years to come!" (It's a bottle of liquid goop labeled "Vehicle
Protection Plan" in the glove compartment (Sterling McCall tried that trick
on me)).

- - "Oh, that OTHER $500? That's the Vehicle Security Plan! It will protect
your car from theft!" (It's a number scratched in the passenger side window
that any police officer will tell you is useless as compared to your
driver's license number or SSN (again, Sterling McCall tried that trick on
me)).

- - "Oh, that OTHER OTHER $500? That's the rust-proofing! You know, roads
here in Texas carry a lot of salt and you can get terrible corrosion without
this!" (It's a wonderful goopy spray-on that is notorious for coating
everything that can be reached from beneath the vehicle, causing early
failure of things like alternator clutches, compressor clutches, bearings in
same, clogged a/c or other outlet/drain hoses and even overheating. It's
costs at least $5 to do, does $100's in damage that can then later be
repaired with mysterious non-warranty labor charges, and is completely
useless in Texas, where we do not put salt or sand on the roads in winter
because we don't HAVE winter (Hey, it's over 70 here right now and I'm going
boating tomorrow!)... (yes, Sterling McCall tried this trick too)).

- - "Oh, that itsy-bitsy $1000 fee? That's from our distributor. Yes, we
don't buy out cars directly from the manufacturer..., that's illegal in this
city. We buy from a distributor, who marks up the original dealer cost you
see in those nasty old consumers and Edmund's guides. So, we HAVE to pass
this along to you...!" (Right. (Yup, Sterling McCall tried that one too)).

- - "Gee, you know, none of the banks wanted to finance you. We could only
find one and they want 21%..." (that was the Do*g* dealer again, and I had a
sterling credit record and already had my own financing, but just hadn't
told HIM that).

So... what's your favorite scumbag dealer scam? (By the way, not to imply
in any way that all dealers are scumbags or that all scumbags are car
dealers. As a matter of fact, I think most scumbags are now in the computer
industry...).

Regards, Bud


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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:01:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Douglas R. Floyd"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Tracking delivery 99 SD / Interest rates

My worst dealer experience wasn't with me, it was a member of my family
buying a foreign mini pickup truck.

They asked for her driver's license, didn't give it back.

The truck had 400 miles on it, and no owner's manual, as well as the jack
appeared used (rusted), odd as the jack is inside the truck.

Ironic that this dealer got shut down by the Texas attorney general, and
transferred to another dealer.

PS: This truck's best thing in life was a trade-in for a 1998 F150. Plus,
the foreign truck was just plain unacceptable. (Well, the only thing that
I did that helped things was getting Goodyear rain tires, which I am
considering for my F150 -- the factory tires just cannot get a grip on
slick Texas roads in the rain.)

PS#2: Before I bought the F150 in March of last year, I stopped and looked
at the ch*vies with my mom. She was planning to get USAA for the truck....


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