97up-list-digest Saturday, January 23 1999 Volume 02 : Number 018



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
FTE 97up - Re: '99 F250 SD PSD... good deal?
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
Re: FTE 97up - Re: '99 F250 SD PSD... good deal?
Re: FTE 97up - Re: '99 F250 SD PSD... good deal?
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
FTE 97up - Limited slip
FTE 97up - 4 X 4 Vans
Re: FTE 97up - 4 X 4 Vans
FTE 97up - Custom Dual exhaust
FTE 97up - Re: LTD slip
FTE 97up - Reasonable Price?
Re: FTE 97up - Reasonable Price?
Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
FTE 97up - synthetic differential lube?
Re: FTE 97up - synthetic differential lube?

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:49:16 -0700
From: Norm Brown
Subject: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

The GVWR for a 250 SD is listed at 8800# and a 350 SD (with SRW) is
9900#.
It appears (unless I missed something in the brochure), that each has
the same brake system and axle ratings.

Two questions-

1. What mechanical factors allow for the increased GWVR for the 350?

2. The sum of the individual GAWR (axle ratings ) for my 250 SD (4850
front - 4970 rear) exceed the GVWR. What mechanical factors limit the
GVWR in this case?

Thanks

Norm

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:20:28 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

In a message dated 99-01-22 07:54:01 EST, you write:


i was wondering the same thing if a 350 really has much of an advantage in SRW
over my 250? Is it just a spring rate difference?


Ross Smith
9sec93cobra
99 F250 PSD/SC/4x4


The GVWR for a 250 SD is listed at 8800# and a 350 SD (with SRW) is
9900#.
It appears (unless I missed something in the brochure), that each has
the same brake system and axle ratings.

Two questions-

1. What mechanical factors allow for the increased GWVR for the 350?

2. The sum of the individual GAWR (axle ratings ) for my 250 SD (4850
front - 4970 rear) exceed the GVWR. What mechanical factors limit the
GVWR in this case?

Thanks

Norm
>>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:50:18 -0800
From: Kent Tombs
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

RSnovi aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 99-01-22 07:54:01 EST, you write:
>
> i was wondering the same thing if a 350 really has much of an advantage in SRW
> over my 250? Is it just a spring rate difference?
>
> Ross Smith
> 9sec93cobra
> 99 F250 PSD/SC/4x4
>
>
> The GVWR for a 250 SD is listed at 8800# and a 350 SD (with SRW) is
> 9900#.
> It appears (unless I missed something in the brochure), that each has
> the same brake system and axle ratings.
>
> Two questions-
>
> 1. What mechanical factors allow for the increased GWVR for the 350?
>
> 2. The sum of the individual GAWR (axle ratings ) for my 250 SD (4850
> front - 4970 rear) exceed the GVWR. What mechanical factors limit the
> GVWR in this case?
>
> Thanks
>
> Norm
> >>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

I would assume that the spring rates would differ in the amount they can
actually hold. Although the axles could handle more. The F-350 has the
overload spring on the rear.

Kent (99 F-250SD XLT SC SB 5.4 5SPD Hunter Green, gray accent paint,
rear slider, privacy glass, alarm ign kill, box liner
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:45:05 -0600
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

I would think that the box and the frame would be stiffened as well. By the
way,
how do you like the Hunter Green, Kent? Does anyone know where I can see a
picture
of a truck this color?


> In a message dated 99-01-22 07:54:01 EST, you write:
>
> i was wondering the same thing if a 350 really has much of an advantage in
SRW
> over my 250? Is it just a spring rate difference?
>
> Ross Smith
> 9sec93cobra
> 99 F250 PSD/SC/4x4
>
>
> The GVWR for a 250 SD is listed at 8800# and a 350 SD (with SRW) is
> 9900#.
> It appears (unless I missed something in the brochure), that each has
> the same brake system and axle ratings.
>
> Two questions-
>
> 1. What mechanical factors allow for the increased GWVR for the 350?
>
> 2. The sum of the individual GAWR (axle ratings ) for my 250 SD (4850
> front - 4970 rear) exceed the GVWR. What mechanical factors limit the
> GVWR in this case?
>
> Thanks
>
> Norm
> >>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

I would assume that the spring rates would differ in the amount they can
actually hold. Although the axles could handle more. The F-350 has the
overload spring on the rear.

Kent (99 F-250SD XLT SC SB 5.4 5SPD Hunter Green, gray accent paint,
rear slider, privacy glass, alarm ign kill, box liner
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:15:15 -0500
From: Dick Dorff
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: '99 F250 SD PSD... good deal?

You can definitively find out how good a deal it is buy checking some of
the on-line pricing guides that provide the dealer invoice cost and the
MSRP for the base truck, and every orderable option. www.edmunds.com,
www.kbb.com, carpoint.msn.com, among others, provide this. Compare the
price the dealer is asking with the dealer invoice price of that truck,
as it's onfigured, as found in the guides. Off-hand, it sounds like a
good deal for a PSD.

Dick Dorff

> I have the opportunity to buy a '99 F250SD SuperCab short bed 2
> wheel drive XLT with the PSD and 6 speed. It's quite loaded with the
> towing package and 3.73 limited slip, power seat, CD, keyless entry
> and more. It's new on a dealer's lot and they want $27K (MSRP is
> $30.4) How does this relate to what most people are paying?
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:41:33 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

You can think that if you like, however it would be pure fantasy. The box
and frame of the 250 and 350 are identical.

- -----Original Message-----
From: George Rigney
To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350


>I would think that the box and the frame would be stiffened as well.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:07:28 -0600
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

Okay, I'll take your word for it. So what is it that allows the higher
payload of the 350?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd E. [mailto:schreib webspan.net]
Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 11:42 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350


You can think that if you like, however it would be pure fantasy. The box
and frame of the 250 and 350 are identical.

- -----Original Message-----
From: George Rigney
To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350


>I would think that the box and the frame would be stiffened as well.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:14:21 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

leaf springs

- -----Original Message-----
From: George Rigney
To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350


>Okay, I'll take your word for it. So what is it that allows the higher
>payload of the 350?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Todd E. [mailto:schreib webspan.net]
>Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 11:42 AM
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
>
>
>You can think that if you like, however it would be pure fantasy. The box
>and frame of the 250 and 350 are identical.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: George Rigney
>To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
>Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 10:43 AM
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
>
>
>>I would think that the box and the frame would be stiffened as well.
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:14:29 -0600
From: "Christopher T. Patrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

At 12:41 PM 1/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
>You can think that if you like, however it would be pure fantasy. The box
>and frame of the 250 and 350 are identical.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: George Rigney
>To: '97up-list ford-trucks.com'
>Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 10:43 AM
>Subject: RE: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350
>
>
>>I would think that the box and the frame would be stiffened as well.
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

im kinda new to this.. but i read on fords service manual that the f350 had
a dana 60, and the f250 has a dana 50. While these axles are similar in
carrying capacity, the 60 has larger shafts, and stronger ring and pinion.
==========================================
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
CHRIS PATRICK | || \
360 ci ______| _||___\____
Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
BOGGERS *** ***
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:26:55 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

Yes the front axles are different between the two vehicles, however the
pickup box and frame are not.


>
>im kinda new to this.. but i read on fords service manual that the f350 had
>a dana 60, and the f250 has a dana 50. While these axles are similar in
>carrying capacity, the 60 has larger shafts, and stronger ring and pinion.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:22:39 -0500
From: philly369 nni.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: '99 F250 SD PSD... good deal?

ok,how do i get off this mailing group?

Dick Dorff wrote:

> You can definitively find out how good a deal it is buy checking some of
> the on-line pricing guides that provide the dealer invoice cost and the
> MSRP for the base truck, and every orderable option. www.edmunds.com,
> www.kbb.com, carpoint.msn.com, among others, provide this. Compare the
> price the dealer is asking with the dealer invoice price of that truck,
> as it's onfigured, as found in the guides. Off-hand, it sounds like a
> good deal for a PSD.
>
> Dick Dorff
>
> > I have the opportunity to buy a '99 F250SD SuperCab short bed 2
> > wheel drive XLT with the PSD and 6 speed. It's quite loaded with the
> > towing package and 3.73 limited slip, power seat, CD, keyless entry
> > and more. It's new on a dealer's lot and they want $27K (MSRP is
> > $30.4) How does this relate to what most people are paying?
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:58:58 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: '99 F250 SD PSD... good deal?

At 02:22 PM 1/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
>ok,how do i get off this mailing group?
>

Try following the directions listed at the bottom
of each post.


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:05:46 -0800
From: George Passidakis
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

>From what I found, the Dana 60 front axle only comes with dual rear wheel F-350 models. All others get the Dana 50 up front.

At 01/22/1999 01:26 PM, you wrote:
>Yes the front axles are different between the two vehicles, however the
>pickup box and frame are not.
>
>
>>
>>im kinda new to this.. but i read on fords service manual that the f350 had
>>a dana 60, and the f250 has a dana 50. While these axles are similar in
>>carrying capacity, the 60 has larger shafts, and stronger ring and pinion.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:02:03 -0700
From: "lrantan"
Subject: FTE 97up - Limited slip

To get your limited slip to work it needs a little bit of drag or traction
to engage, if you apply the emergency brake slightly it will allow the
clutches in the LS to engage



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:12:18 -0700
From: "lrantan"
Subject: FTE 97up - 4 X 4 Vans

Try WWW.quigley4x4.com, Fourwheeler magazine just did a road test of one
www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/roadtest/quigley/index.html



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:16:12 -0600
From: "Christopher T. Patrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 4 X 4 Vans

At 02:12 PM 1/22/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Try WWW.quigley4x4.com, Fourwheeler magazine just did a road test of one
>www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/roadtest/quigley/index.html

i used to own a 4x4 dodge 250. (early 80's model). it was great for on
road nasty stuff... and dirt roads... however it was worthless for serious
four wheeling, as the body flexed and doors and windows quit sealing, and
eventually the roof creased diagonally.

im a bit harder on a 4x4 than most ppl.. but i would put a 4x4 van in the
same class as an explorer or other posh sport ute as far as capabilitys...
definately not a tough truck as far as that goes...
==========================================
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.877pcparts.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.inlink.com/~cpatrick
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.jeepthing.com ||
CHRIS PATRICK | || \
360 ci ______| _||___\____
Th400 (|==== |_____| ___ | |]
SOA (>| = \___________/ = \____|=
4"lift *** '84 CJ-8 ***
Dana44 ** **'98 F150 ** **
35"x16.5 ** ** ** **
BOGGERS *** ***
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:01:36 4
From: "Vaughn (VDB)"
Subject: FTE 97up - Custom Dual exhaust

Hi all,

Has anybody had a custom dual exhaust made
for them by say, Midas or Meineke??
If so do they know what they are doing??
I'm thinking of going dual exit out the sides
in front of the rear tires if possible.
I called Gibson, but their dual exits will not
be available for the SD for a couple of months.

Thanks
Vaughn

99 SD F250 SC SB XLT 4X4 5.4 Oxford White
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:15:01 -0500
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: LTD slip

Ford uses a clutch type limited slip, it is of "limited" usefulness.
Mine chattered when new, also gripped real well, had dealer add friction
modifier to stop chatter on turns, now I notice it slips a lot.
Lee Haefele
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:04:34 -0600
From: "Bud Feuless & Miki Magara"
Subject: FTE 97up - Reasonable Price?

Hmmm... that's interesting...

The price I was quoted was $500 over dealer cost + FDAF + TT&L, verified by
. I know the holdback on these trucks is pretty significant,
and I'd probably haggle more if I was talking to a salesguy on the floor,
but I figure the compromise of dealing with the fleet guy (with whom I want
to keep a good relationship) is that I don't have to haggle to get a fair
price. Not spectacular, but fair. What does everyone else think? Is that
just too much to pay or is it reasonable? If you recall, from my earlier
"Opportunity" note, I was going to pay around $35K, including TT&L out the
door for a 250SD SC 4x4,auto,PSD,Lariat,608A PEP, LT265 OWL,3.73 ltd
slip,ESOF,sliding rear w/priv.,spare,power tt mirrors,off road,
cass/CD,4wABS,chrome bumper, class 4 hitch, camper and t/t packages, + 11
gallons of diesel.

I'd be interested to hear what others think is really reasonable to expect
to pay... and don't just say "I know a place on the Internet that sells for
$1 over dealer cost," because they all inflate their cost over what you will
find in the book or in or edmunds. Thanks for your
feedback...

Regards, Bud

>You got to be yanking my chain i would only pay around 32-33k for that, my
>sticker was 34,5 and i sqeezed him down to 32 125, i think he sweat couple
>gallons, but hey im hear to pay what i want, but i will have to give the
guy
>credit he was very nice to deal with and never tried to give me any of the
>other BS that i have gotten before at some of the other big town dealers,
I
>told him i know what your cost is plus you get a dlr. hold back on top of
that
>so heres the deal i will let you make a few dollars .....but not many.
Just
>for you guys reference it was Blountstown Ford ( panhandle FL area), very
>small dealer, it was the only F 250 they had.
>
>Ross Smith
>9sec93cobra
>99 F250 PSD/SC/4x4



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:23:46 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Reasonable Price?

$500 over invoice is definitely reasonable. I bought mine at invoice, yes I
found them on the internet, and I spent $400 flying to Ohio to pick my truck
up. I still saved $700 over the lowest price I could get from the dirt bags
in New Jersey, not to mention I got to stop over at a good friends house on
the trip home. Your deal is not bad at all, and I believe the person who
commented on the price did not take everything into consideration.



- -----Original Message-----
From: Bud Feuless & Miki Magara
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 8:10 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Reasonable Price?


>Hmmm... that's interesting...
>
>The price I was quoted was $500 over dealer cost + FDAF + TT&L, verified by
>. I know the holdback on these trucks is pretty significant,
>and I'd probably haggle more if I was talking to a salesguy on the floor,
>but I figure the compromise of dealing with the fleet guy (with whom I want
>to keep a good relationship) is that I don't have to haggle to get a fair
>price. Not spectacular, but fair. What does everyone else think? Is that
>just too much to pay or is it reasonable? If you recall, from my earlier
>"Opportunity" note, I was going to pay around $35K, including TT&L out the
>door for a 250SD SC 4x4,auto,PSD,Lariat,608A PEP, LT265 OWL,3.73 ltd
>slip,ESOF,sliding rear w/priv.,spare,power tt mirrors,off road,
>cass/CD,4wABS,chrome bumper, class 4 hitch, camper and t/t packages, + 11
>gallons of diesel.
>
>I'd be interested to hear what others think is really reasonable to expect
>to pay... and don't just say "I know a place on the Internet that sells for
>$1 over dealer cost," because they all inflate their cost over what you
will
>find in the book or in or edmunds. Thanks for your
>feedback...
>
>Regards, Bud
>
>>You got to be yanking my chain i would only pay around 32-33k for that, my
>>sticker was 34,5 and i sqeezed him down to 32 125, i think he sweat couple
>>gallons, but hey im hear to pay what i want, but i will have to give the
>guy
>>credit he was very nice to deal with and never tried to give me any of the
>>other BS that i have gotten before at some of the other big town dealers,
>I
>>told him i know what your cost is plus you get a dlr. hold back on top of
>that
>>so heres the deal i will let you make a few dollars .....but not many.
>Just
>>for you guys reference it was Blountstown Ford ( panhandle FL area), very
>>small dealer, it was the only F 250 they had.
>>
>>Ross Smith
>>9sec93cobra
>>99 F250 PSD/SC/4x4
>
>
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:01:33 -0800
From: Kent Tombs
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - '99SD GVWR 250 vs 350

George Rigney wrote:
>
> I would think that the box and the frame would be stiffened as well. By the
> way,
> how do you like the Hunter Green, Kent? Does anyone know where I can see a
> picture
> of a truck this color?
>
>
> > In a message dated 99-01-22 07:54:01 EST, you write:
> >
> > i was wondering the same thing if a 350 really has much of an advantage in
> SRW
> > over my 250? Is it just a spring rate difference?
> >
> > Ross Smith
> > 9sec93cobra
> > 99 F250 PSD/SC/4x4
> >
> >
> > The GVWR for a 250 SD is listed at 8800# and a 350 SD (with SRW) is
> > 9900#.
> > It appears (unless I missed something in the brochure), that each has
> > the same brake system and axle ratings.
> >
> > Two questions-
> >
> > 1. What mechanical factors allow for the increased GWVR for the 350?
> >
> > 2. The sum of the individual GAWR (axle ratings ) for my 250 SD (4850
> > front - 4970 rear) exceed the GVWR. What mechanical factors limit the
> > GVWR in this case?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Norm
> > >>
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> I would assume that the spring rates would differ in the amount they can
> actually hold. Although the axles could handle more. The F-350 has the
> overload spring on the rear.
>
> Kent (99 F-250SD XLT SC SB 5.4 5SPD Hunter Green, gray accent paint,
> rear slider, privacy glass, alarm ign kill, box liner
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

The frame used on the 250SD is the same rated steel as on all of the SD
frames. I read this on one of Ford`s web pages. The hunter green is an
excellent color, it changes color in the sun. The brochure does not do
any justice for the color it is way off. Go to your local dealer and
check it out there.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:45:12 -0500
From: "Robert & Julie Legates"
Subject: FTE 97up - synthetic differential lube?

Could anyone tell me an easy way to find out if my 99 SD PSD SC 4X4 3.73
Lim. slip auto trans. came with synthetic lube in the differentials? I was
doing my 6000 mile oil change and was looking through the service manual
for the tire rotation info. and I came across a section that said if you
do not have synthetic lube you should change your diff. oil every 3000
miles. I do not know what is in there and since I pull a 9000 lbs. travel
trailer and did not change it at 3000 should I be worried?


Thanks
Bob (love
that diesel) Legates

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