97up-list-digest Tuesday, June 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 160



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - Diesel Fuel Filler Neck
RE: FTE 97up - Opinions Please...
FTE 97up - Noisey Transmission
RE: FTE 97up - Noisey Transmission
Re: FTE 97up - Diesel Fuel Filler Neck
FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill
RE: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill
Re: FTE 97up - 3.73 Limited Slip in California?
Re: FTE 97up - 3.73 Limited Slip in California?
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill
FTE 97up - Winch on SuperDuty?
FTE 97up - electric deadbolts
RE: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill
Re: FTE 97up - Winch on SuperDuty?

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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:14:53 -0500
From: DanBrotzman
Subject: FTE 97up - Diesel Fuel Filler Neck

Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:54:46 -0700
From: The Hepburn
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill

CERESJohnG aol.com wrote:
>=20
> This is sort of an open question. Why are there two diesel fuel =
filler
> sizes? Initially I thought it might be an on-road vs off road fuel =
tax
> issue, but tha doesn't make sense. Does anyone have a clue as to the =
logic
> on this?
>=20
The stanard nozzle you find a a typical gas station is designed to be =
used
with the standard consumer-type pumps, which operate at 6 gallons per
minute flow rate. Truck stops, on the other hand, have pumps that flow
at a rate of 26 gallons per minute, so they need a larger nozzle to =
handle
the higher flow rate.

Someone earlier mentioned using an F450 filler - my F450 has a filler =
that
is the same size as the "car" pump nozzles. Maybe Ford has a larger =
filler
available as an option, but it's definitely not standard.

Reply;

I have a 99.5 F350 PSD CC 6SPD LWB and it has the large fill hole to =
accept either size fill hose. I assume then you should be able to order =
a fill neck direct from your dealers parts counter, possibly under =
warranty?

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:28:00 -0400
From: "D'Amelio, Stephen M."
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Opinions Please...

If you are at all concerned about power, get
the 5.4L. I would not say the 4.6 is gutless,
but the difference is noticeable. There are thousands
of these trucks (used) on the
market. You should be able to get exactly what
you want.

Yesterday I finally drove by brothers 99 "Off-Road"
ext cab with a 4.6L. It is supposed to have 220hp
and 290ft./lbs (I think) for 99. My 5.4L is a 97
and (at the time) was rated at 235hp and 330ft./lbs.
This just goes to show how you can't go strictly
by numbers, because the difference in acceleration
across the board seemed substantial. One thing that
could have influenced that is the tire size my brother
is running (265/70/17) as opposed to my 255/70/16.
We both have 3.55:1 gears.

I guess if you get a 4.6L you might be happy, if you
get a 5.4L you will be happy.


Steve

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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:11:12 PDT
From: Scott Matus
Subject: FTE 97up - Noisey Transmission

I have a 99.5 F350 PDS 6 spd CC SRW LB and have experienced low RPM
transmission "growling" since new, now have 1,500 miles on it. I have the
exact same issues about the ZF 6-Speed transmission and the New Process Gear
Tranfer Case combination. The only way I know of checking the transmission
fluiod in this transmission is to drain it, then measure the drain volume.
It take 3.7 Qts and is NOT filler plug level.

I would really like to hear other owner's comments about this trans.

Thanks, Scott

- ------- Original Message ----------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:44:06 -0500
From: DanBrotzman
Subject: FTE 97up - Noisey Transmission


Repy:
I have a 99.5 F350 PDS 6 spd CC SRW LB and have experienced low RPM =
transmission "growling" since new, now have 1,800 miles on it. Between =
idle and 1,200 RPM when the transmission is warm I get a very loud =
"Growl" or "Resonant Vibration" in all gears. I don't think I would call =
it a knock though. I posted here twice and did not get any response so I =
figured it must be normal. It sounds to me like the input bearing is =
sloppy or the input gear to counter shaft gear is a sloppy fit. At =
higher RPM's (above 1,200) I do not notice any noise. I have checked the =
oil level and it seams okay. I also notice that it is difficult to shift =
into gear when the truck is stopped, like the sycronizors don't work =
properly or the shift collar is a very tight fit into the gear. I =
figured if it self destructs in the first 12,000 miles it wouldn't be my =
problem other than down time. If it gets worse I will definitely get it =
looked at. I plan to put about 4,000 miles on it in June pulling a =
8,000# trailer so maybe that will bring out any weak area of my =
transmission. Please post any findings, thanks.


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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:25:26 -0500
From: Todd Styles
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Noisey Transmission

I have the same problem with a '99 PSD 6-speed. Here's the info I found:

1999 F-series transmission noise--ZF M6OD: The M6OD does not have a dual
mass flywheel. Instead a new design dampened clutch plate is used to dampen
engine vibrations.Some customers may experience a harsh gear roll-over noise
at idle, neutral run-up or at high speeds. There is an updated clutch plate,
but it does not seem to completely remedy the concern. The noise is an
annoyance, but Ford states that it is not detrimental to the transmission.

check out this web site for good PSD information:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/9084/home.html

Todd.


I have a 99.5 F350 PDS 6 spd CC SRW LB and have experienced low RPM
transmission "growling" since new, now have 1,500 miles on it.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:24:58 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Diesel Fuel Filler Neck

I have had some problems a few times with the filler being too big on the
end, it has been at a few truck stops i have stopped at, it had like a tad
size larger just on the end that would not even fit in the 99 PSD filler
hole. This was only at a few places, anyone know why they do this?
It really aggrivates me when i have to go searching for a pump that the thing
will fit! it seems to be most of the time at BP stations and some others i
can't remember.

RS
9sec93cobra
99F250 PSD/SC/4x4
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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:14:56 EDT
From: BFunk33 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill

Pumps for commercial trucks will flow a lot more fuel than those for
passenger vehicles. The fillers reflect this.
This is a problem Ford has come up against before, and has a retro-fit
package to fix it. Your dealer should know about it.
Bill


In a message dated 6/14/99 2:19:29 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
owner-97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com writes:


Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill

This is sort of an open question. Why are there two diesel fuel filler
sizes? Initially I thought it might be an on-road vs off road fuel tax
issue, but tha doesn't make sense. Does anyone have a clue as to the logic
on this? >>
========================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:39:26 -0400
From: davesomers
Subject: RE: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill

I've done a little more asking around (and thanks to those that responded
offline) about diesel.
There appear to be high sulphur and low sulphur fuels and among the low
sulphur fuels they are further split into taxable uses and non-taxable
uses.
On the road taxable low sulphur fuel is what should be sold by truck stops
and gas stations. Some farm and off road uses qualify for non-tax or high
sulphur.
The various versions are clear, blue, and red to indicate - but the info on
which color is which has been conflicting.

I did a survey by opening the fuel cap on every diesel in a local dealer's
lot. [I bet that looked suspicious at 8pm on Sunday night] All the 99
SuperDuties (incl chassis cabs) have the smaller fill hole. I asked at the
parts counter for a large fill and they said there was only one size
available for 99s.
Our ambulances (86-97 Ford diesel van chassis cabs) all have the larger
fill hole.
The two 97 pickup chassis cabs left in the lot also have the larger fill
hole, but the three 97 pickups have the smaller. (this dealer seems to
want list price or nothing)

My salesman says "the large filler hose is for trucks that don't need the
finer filtering. There is an extra filter inline with the small hoses and
the 99 PSD is sensitive to having good fuel." He also says that we should
stop using "truck stop fuel" in our ambulances, because it hasn't been
filtered.
The manager at one truck stop (only has large nozzles) says "it's the same
fuel, I just use the big nozzles so the big tanks can fill faster. My
price is cheaper because I'm buying in volume"
The pump guy at the gas station with "Premium Auto Diesel" says "you're
paying extra for the better quality fuel we buy" (He's $.10 more than the
truck stop 1/4 mile away).
I was always told to buy the diesel at a high volume dealer where the fuel
isn't sitting in the tank picking up water and impurities - which would
sound like the truck stop to me. (They have 12 pumps and are always full
24hrs a day)

Please help me sort fact from fiction here.
Is there a good website with this sort of information?


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:27:23 -0700
From: Gene Ball
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 3.73 Limited Slip in California?

Dave I have a crewcab 4X4 short wheel base V10 with LS 3.73 !
I bougth the truck in Indiana but live in Illinois
I wish I had the 4.30 gears with the 4X4 it would be
much nicer to run larger tires!
Gene

Dave Santo wrote:

> I've ordered a Y2K F-250 SD/SC V-10 2WD LB SRW. When the dealer plugged in the
> 3.73 "limited slip" option it came back as a 4.30 limited slip. Because this
> will be a California vehicle, and because of air standards/emission standards
> here, you can not get (apparently) a 3.73 limited slip (with a V-10?). On a
> dealers lot in Riverside (Fritts Ford), I saw a vehicle sticker on an F-250 SD
> that had listed a 3.73 limited slip! I forgot to look at the engine size. Does
> anybody know what gives? I have a 1998 Lincoln Navigator (5.4L) and the sticker
> for it shows a 3.73 limited slip!!! I believe that you CAN get a 3.73 LS with
> the 5.4L V-8 but not with the 6.8L V-10. Any info would be appreciated. [I
> guess {engine} size DOES matter!] TIA
> --
> Dave Santo
> dhsanto home.com
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:58:17 -0700
From: "iflyrc"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 3.73 Limited Slip in California?

I have a 99 SD SC 4x4 LB V10 Lariat w/3.73LS
Dave
>Dave Santo wrote:
>
>> I've ordered a Y2K F-250 SD/SC V-10 2WD LB SRW. When the
dealer plugged in the
>> 3.73 "limited slip" option it came back as a 4.30 limited
slip. Because this
>> will be a California vehicle, and because of air
standards/emission standards
>> here, you can not get (apparently) a 3.73 limited slip
(with a V-10?). On a
>> dealers lot in Riverside (Fritts Ford), I saw a vehicle
sticker on an F-250 SD
>> that had listed a 3.73 limited slip! I forgot to look at
the engine size. Does
>> anybody know what gives? I have a 1998 Lincoln Navigator
(5.4L) and the sticker
>> for it shows a 3.73 limited slip!!! I believe that you
CAN get a 3.73 LS with
>> the 5.4L V-8 but not with the 6.8L V-10. Any info would
be appreciated. [I
>> guess {engine} size DOES matter!] TIA
>> --
>> Dave Santo
>> dhsanto home.com
>>
>> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
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>
>
>
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>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:16:33 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill

I'll add a bit more to this confusion, Stopped at a gas station (Exxon) to
pick up some Kerosene for space heaters in a cabin I own last winter. Note
these call for "clear K1". I was assured that it was and filled up the cans.

Imagine my surprise when I found out the Kerosene was red. Was told later it
was a dye that was put in because some guys were using non road tax kerosene
instead of diesel fuel. So the meaage here is dyed is non-road tax, clear
carries the road tax applied at the pump.. Now, the difference between high
sulfer and low sulfer is an new one.

I have discussed the situation with a heavy equipment operator in the
neighborhood. I get pretty much the same story. Dyed is for off-road/farm
use. Clear is for on highway.What I was told further is that the IRS actually
performs spot inspections of operators that use both and God help you if they
find dyed fuel in your "on road" vehicles. The penalties are more than
significant, they are abusive, seriously so.

John G.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:50:46 -0400
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill

John, To add even more confusion to your existing confusion, appearently the
dyed kerosene is Toxic upon burning and not meant to be used in space
heaters (that's why all space heaters say "clear" kerosene only).

Keith



- -----Original Message-----
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill


>I'll add a bit more to this confusion, Stopped at a gas station (Exxon) to
>pick up some Kerosene for space heaters in a cabin I own last winter. Note
>these call for "clear K1". I was assured that it was and filled up the
cans.
>
>Imagine my surprise when I found out the Kerosene was red. Was told later
it
>was a dye that was put in because some guys were using non road tax
kerosene
>instead of diesel fuel. So the meaage here is dyed is non-road tax, clear
>carries the road tax applied at the pump.. Now, the difference between
high
>sulfer and low sulfer is an new one.
>
>I have discussed the situation with a heavy equipment operator in the
>neighborhood. I get pretty much the same story. Dyed is for off-road/farm
>use. Clear is for on highway.What I was told further is that the IRS
actually
>performs spot inspections of operators that use both and God help you if
they
>find dyed fuel in your "on road" vehicles. The penalties are more than
>significant, they are abusive, seriously so.
>
>John G.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:53:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Douglas R. Floyd"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill

>
> John, To add even more confusion to your existing confusion, appearently the
> dyed kerosene is Toxic upon burning and not meant to be used in space
> heaters (that's why all space heaters say "clear" kerosene only).
>
> Keith

Even more confusing is the fact that in Austin, TX, they sell dyed-red
kerosene for space heaters... :/
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:58:30 -0500
From: "Kenneth L. Collier Jr."
Subject: FTE 97up - Winch on SuperDuty?

I was wondering if anyone has a winch on their Super Duty truck? Any
remarks or suggestions? I've been considering putting a winch on my
2000 model truck when I decide to buy it. I'm particularly interested
in the 12000lb. model from Warn. They also sell a kit that extends the
bumper four inches and conceals the winch beneath it. Anyone know
anything about this particular set-up? I've got a Warn winch that has
been on my 1980 CJ-7 since new, and it still works great. Do you think
the heavier front springs are needed if the engine is the PSD? Any
insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kenneth

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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:04:19 -0500
From: Karen & David Hoogland
Subject: FTE 97up - electric deadbolts

I have a 1999 E250 van...I would like to put electric deadbolts on it...so I
would not need the outside padlocks. Anyone know where I can get these
from?

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:31:40 -0500
From: "David Moore [Dmoore Dmoore.com]"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill

So are you saying that Kerosene (dyed or not) is useable in a diesel engine?
If so - has anyone tried this on a regular basis in their Navistar diesel
engine?

David

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of CERESJohnG aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 8:17 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Diesel Fuel Fill


I'll add a bit more to this confusion, Stopped at a gas station (Exxon) to
pick up some Kerosene for space heaters in a cabin I own last winter. Note
these call for "clear K1". I was assured that it was and filled up the cans.

Imagine my surprise when I found out the Kerosene was red. Was told later it
was a dye that was put in because some guys were using non road tax kerosene
instead of diesel fuel. So the meaage here is dyed is non-road tax, clear
carries the road tax applied at the pump.. Now, the difference between high
sulfer and low sulfer is an new one.

I have discussed the situation with a heavy equipment operator in the
neighborhood. I get pretty much the same story. Dyed is for off-road/farm
use. Clear is for on highway.What I was told further is that the IRS
actually
performs spot inspections of operators that use both and God help you if
they
find dyed fuel in your "on road" vehicles. The penalties are more than
significant, they are abusive, seriously so.

John G.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:14:37 EDT
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Winch on SuperDuty?

In a message dated 6/14/99 10:58:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
collierk cora.net writes:

i have seen some Texas style bumpers that have a nice mount that i will be
looking into sometime. I also have seen some the Warn mounting its not too
bad, i ran into a run filling up that had one.

RS


Date:6/14/99 10:58:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:collierk cora.net (Kenneth L. Collier Jr.)
Sender:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
Reply-to:97up-list ford-trucks.com
To:97up-list ford-trucks.com

I was wondering if anyone has a winch on their Super Duty truck? Any
remarks or suggestions? I've been considering putting a winch on my
2000 model truck when I decide to buy it. I'm particularly interested
in the 12000lb. model from Warn. They also sell a kit that extends the
bumper four inches and conceals the winch beneath it. Anyone know
anything about this particular set-up? I've got a Warn winch that has
been on my 1980 CJ-7 since new, and it still works great. Do you think
the heavier front springs are needed if the engine is the PSD? Any
insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kenneth

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