97up-list-digest Wednesday, January 20 1999 Volume 02 : Number 015



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - Re: F-350 DRW/4WABS brakes update
Re: FTE 97up - non SOF?
Re: FTE 97up - non SOF?
FTE 97up - ADMIN: FTE T-shirts answers
RE: FTE 97up - 5.4 L Piston Slap Problem
Re: FTE 97up - non SOF? Kieth & Brandt
Re: FTE 97up - 1999 F150 Tranny
SD ESOF and Ltd Slip (was Re: FTE 97up - SD 250 V10 Arrived! First impressions.)
FTE 97up - Rim size?
Re: FTE 97up - Re:First oil change
FTE 97up - Borla Cat back exhaust
RE: FTE 97up - Rim size?
Re: FTE 97up - Re:First oil change
FTE 97up - New Truck!
Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: FTE T-shirts answers
Re: FTE 97up - Re:First oil change
Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: FTE T-shirts answers
Re: FTE 97up - Re:First oil change

=======================================================================

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:24:09 -0500
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: F-350 DRW/4WABS brakes update

>By the way, Lee, it was awfully nice to see a post that didn't mention
>your brakes... !
My dealer reprogrammed the ABS, it is safer, it doesn't slide off the
road on curves anymore. Interesting to see that there are adjustments
to the ABS computer. The ABS now pulses the brakes ON for a shorter
time, it would be better if the brakes did not lock up. So..Still not a
good fix, until they get more brakes proportioned to the rear. Turns
out I am loaded right at max GVW with about 7000 rear, 4000 front. In
addition to poor stopping on slick surfaces, the front brakes overheat
on downhills. This will cause short pad & rotor life.
Lee Haefele
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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:44:46 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - non SOF?

With the manual system when the hubs are locked (get out and turn them) you
can shift in and out of 4x4 while moving. With the SOF and the hubs in auto
(they look like manual hubs, but have an auto and lock setting to override
if something were to happen) when you turn the knob to go to 4x4 the hubs
lock. On either system you have to stop for low range. With the SOF to go
in or out of low range you have to stop, be in neutral (not park), and have
your foot on the brake.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jody Villa
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 5:59 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - non SOF?


>Hi everyone, I'm de-lurking for the first time. I have on order a 250SD PSD
>CC SWB Lariat, this truck has been on order for 7 weeks. This I am told is
>nothing, I'll have at least a 5-6 month wait for this truck. So off to the
>internet I go truck shopping. I found a truck close to what I ordered
>except it doesn't have shift-on-the-fly. Without SOF do you have to get out
>of the truck to manually lock the hubs? Also, do you have to stop to go
>from 2 wheel to 4 wheel?
>
>Any info greatly appreciated, TIA


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:36:16 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - non SOF?

Jody Villa wrote:

> F250SD...Lariat ... on order for 7 weeks.. told....5-6 month wait.

Lariat is the gate, these are produced in limited quantities - I've been
waiting since Sept. 30, 1998 - and still don't have a VIN number. But
then again who knows you may get lucky.

> truck close to what I ordered
> except it doesn't have shift-on-the-fly.

Electronic shift on the fly (ESOP) would be nice to have with the trendtoward
automatic all-wheel drive vehicles. Resale would also benefit I
would think.

> Without SOF do you have to get out
> of the truck to manually lock the hubs?

Yes!

Charles.


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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:00:10 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: FTE T-shirts answers

After yesterday's posting about the new Ford Truck
Enthusiasts t-shirts, I received about a dozen emails
asking about security of ordering over the Internet.
I'm going to outline the measures taken:

1. If you use a browser that handles secure transactions
(Netscape and Internet Explorer are amoung these)
then your order from your browser is sent to our server
using either 128 or 40 bit encryption. Your browser
should indicate with a lock or key symbol somewhere on
the screen (usually the bottom) when you get to the
final order page that the transaction is secure.

2. The transactions are then further encrypted with PGP
using 1024/512 bit RSA encryption and stored on our
server.

3. Each evening these transactions are downloaded to our
system in encrypted form and we decrypt them on our
system. At no time is your personal information sent
over public lines unencrypted.

4. Nova, the Visa/Mastercard/Amex processor, runs a credit
check on both Ford Truck Enthusiasts and my personal
credit. Credit requirements for an Internet business
are tighter than non-Internet businesses to help insure
ethical transaction practices.

5. Nova requires a publically stated return and shipping
policy and we supply this on our order form.

Concerning the Ford truck club that is being formed (still
working on the Constitution for it)... if you join the
club and have ordered a t-shirt, the club member t-shirt
discount will be applied to your club membership fee. More
on this later....

Ken Payne



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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:10:29 -0500
From: ryana asg.com (Ryan Allen)
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - 5.4 L Piston Slap Problem

At 11:10 1/15/99 , you wrote:
>I was told last week by the Southwest Ford Rep that Ford has a fix, and will
>be replacing pistons in the defective engines starting in February 1999.
>Whether that will happen remains to be seen. I'm on my second engine already
>(the first was replaced due to piston slap at 8,000 miles). I now have
>14,000 miles on the second one and the slap showed up again at about 11,000
>miles.

Here's a question: My 1999 F150 4x4 5.4L V8 will be produced on Feb. 1,
1999--just a few short weeks away. Has there been any new information
regarding a "decision?"

Thanks,
Ryan Allen
Intranet Specialist
Intranet Development Team (IDTeam)
Allen Systems Group
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.asg.com

## Please visit my Personal Page ##
## http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.gate.net/~airwolf ##
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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:18:48 -0500
From: "Todd E."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - non SOF? Kieth & Brandt

Brandt

I have the V-10, and to be honest with you, I have no idea what my mileage
is with the hubs locked. I only do local driving with the hubs locked, and
I very rarely fill it up, so I don't even bother checking mileage. When
doing highway driving, I unlock the hubs and get 13-14 mpg. I've got 3000
miles on the truck and haven't checked the mileage in awhile, so maybe I'll
check it out, and post the results here.

Kieth,

When I was ordering my truck, there were many comments on the internet about
problems with the ESOF unit. I also got the manual transmission, as I feel
that the stick is more reliable than an automatic. These are just my
opinions, and was trying to point out the positives of the manual system.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Brandt Dennehy
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - non SOF?


>Todd E.,
>Just out of curiosity, what kind of mpg do you get with the hubs in vs.
out?
>Do you have a v-10, 5.4, or powerstroke?
>
>
>
>>You can shift on the fly with the manual shift 4x4 so long as you aren't
>>shifting into 4Lo, of course you can't shift into 4LO with the ESOF
either.
>>I have the manual, and was thinking that not getting the ESOF was a
>>mistake, but I am now thoroughly convinced that the manual system is much
>>better. If the weather is bad, or if bad weather is expected, you can
lock
>>the hubs manually before you go wherever you are going. You don't have to
>>engage the 4 wheel drive until you need it.
>>
>>The reason I think this is superior to the ESOF, is that you are ensured
>>that the vehicle's hubs are locked, and it is a much more reliable system
>>than the ESOF. The manual gives me a much more secure feeling. The
manual
>>system also reduces the number of components that can fail.
>>
>>I currently drive around this time of year with the hubs locked, unless
I'm
>>doing a lot of highway driving. That way I have 4x4 just a quick shift
>>away.
>>
>
>
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>

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:50:57 -0500
From: Dick Dorff
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 1999 F150 Tranny

Thanks Keith, but it was Rick Heis who was requesting tranny info. I
was just offering a possible solution for consideration. You've
convinced me though, I still want the F250 SD (V10) we just received!

Not knowing what Rick anticipates using the truck for, the LD250 still
seems to me like an interesting package, depending on one's needs;
improved performance 5.4l vs the SD 5.4l (same as F150 5.4l), E40D/4R100
vs F150's 4R70W (unless, as just pointed out, you're in CA and the
E40D's available also on the F150 with the CA emissions), more payload
than an F150, in a lighter chassis than a SD. The LD250, vs. the F150,
had caught my eye for a while in our truck search because we anticipated
pulling small 5th wheel; the increased torque at lower RPM of the new
5.4l, increase payload, and the styling of the Light Duty were all
attractive. If you just need a bit more pulling power and payload, yet
still want the better ride and handling of a Light Duty, it seems worth
a look.

Ultimately, towing considerations and price prompted us to check out the
Super Duty. We'd be too close for comfort to the rated max. payload and
the full-floating axles seemed a bit safer of a bet for towing as well.
The Super Duty 250 was less than or equal to the LD250 in price when
comparably equipped. In the end we're glad we did if only for the Crew
Cab availability (three small but growing kids).

- -Dick

> Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:51:05 -0500, "Keith Veren" wrote:
>
> Dick,
>
> Why don't you just order a F-250 or 350 SuperDuty with the 5.4L or the
> V-10. It seems to me you want heavy-duty. That's what I did, and I
> love my F-350 4X4 SuperDuty V-10.
>
> Keith
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Dick Dorff
> To: 97up
> Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 1999 F150 Tranny
>
> >You can't order the E40D/4R100 on an F150; the 4R70W is the only
> >automatic offered.
> >
> >Consider a '99 F250 Light Duty; it also has the new 5.4l, but has
> >the E40D, which internally is the same as the 4R100.
> >
> >Dick Dorff
> >99 F250 SD CC SB XLT 4x4 V10 3.73ls TT
> >
> >> ------------------------------
> >> Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:24:12 -0500, from Rick Heis:
> >>
> >> Nathan,
> >>
> >> My next questions,

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:31:24 -0500
From: Dick Dorff
Subject: SD ESOF and Ltd Slip (was Re: FTE 97up - SD 250 V10 Arrived! First impressions.)

Hi Charles,

Thanks for the congratulations. I'm still excited about having it.
Yours will be well worth the wait.

> Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:20:54 -0600, "Charles Abraham" wrote:
>
> Did you end up getting the ESOP or not? I been surprised by some
> recent posts indicating that the ESOP failed at temps below zero.

Ended up removing the ESOF from the order. Learned from the list and
others that it's just as well to drive around a bunch with the hubs
locked; causes the u-joints to get lubricated and stay flexible
longer. Didn't seem as much of a hassle for the wife anymore. Also,
as I'd mentioned before, I wasn't comfortable with the perceived amount
and testing done to the ESOF by Ford since it had problems so early on.
And, it still seems to me, although I'd need to understand all the
mechanicals of the system better to know for sure and currently I don't,
that if the ESOF fails, it could do so in some bad ways: hubs locked
and no way to unlock them (only "Locked" or "Auto" settings), combined
with stuck in or out of 4WD. Stuck in 4WD with hubs locked makes for
unhealthy dry pavement driving. Stuck in 2WD could leave one stuck.
I'm not saying it is or isn't likely to fail, but just that I'm not
comfortable with the ESOF yet. We live at the bottom of a steep hill,
with no other way in or out, so it's important (to me) that I minimize
the likelihood of failure.

> On the limited-slip in two wheel drive, when the right rear drive
> wheel began to spin (or vice-a-versa), power transferred to the other
> wheel and kept the truck going in the snow? If your get a chance to
> test it on ice, let me know how it behaves.

Mixed results now. In the test drive, I'd just done some 2WD
accelerating (some tire spin) in snow on pavement up a mild incline and
tried to observe through the rear view mirros (aimed at the tires) that
both rear wheels seemed to take turns throwing snow into the air. They
seemed to, and the truck seemed to accelerate quite nicely for the
conditions, but I now think it was a pretty lousy test. Sunday, backing
into my mother's driveway, in 2WD, with one rear wheel on a low snowbank
(
and the other never took over. Needed 4WD to go backward, although I'm
not sure if I tried forward in 2WD before bailing out. I'm now
confused. Does the Ltd Slip not work in reverse, or not work well, or
did I not actually get it on the truck? The 3.73 LS was on the window
sticker. Anyone know now to verify if it's actually there? I don't
think I saw it on the door jamb sticker, but I've only taken a quick
peek at that once. (Truck's at home, I'm at work).

> However, you didn't say if you got the elusive rubber gaskets on the
> bottom, inside edges of the doors, or only the holes? And don't forget
> to report your gas mileage.

You're right, sorry for the omission of such a recently discussed
question. I think I omitted it because I think the original poser of
the question inquired specifically about the Lariats, but it seems to be
more of a general item that shouldn't be specific to trim levels.
Thanks to he who initially raised the question, it was part of my
pre-purchase exam to verify that they were in fact there. They were
there; front and rear doors (crew cab) all had a rubber gasket on the
inside of the very bottom of the doors. Doesn't work that well though,
because I saw some road sand on the inside of that gasket (side facing
the door jamb) on at least two doors. Seems to be not quite stiff
enough to not get blown away from the the door jamb.

- -Dick.
99 SD F250 CC SB 4x4(manual) V10 Auto 3.73ls TT Hitch PrivGlass MudFlaps
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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:13:08 -0800
From: Gene Ball
Subject: FTE 97up - Rim size?

Can some one tell me how wide my premium rims are?
I have the 265/ 75/ 16 tires! I think they are 8in?
I would like to know for sure so I can shop for taller and wider tires!
Super Duty F250 4X4 CC SB Lariat V10
By the way guys it goes in wensday night to get the rearend lowered!
Gene

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:50:53 -0800
From: Gene Ball
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:First oil change

You don't put 100% synthetic oil in a new motor!
My opinion is after 3 or 4 thousand miles!!!
Gene Big truck, Big boat!

Keith Veren wrote:

> Amen, Alan:
> I have been changing my new vehicle's oil after the first 500 miles or so to
> Mobil-1 synthetic and I was doing this even before it was "fashionable"
> (back in '87). Even went so far as to change gear oil, differential fluid
> and transfer case oil, and suspension and u-joint lubes with the appropriate
> Mobil-1 lubricant for my '87 4-Runner. My '87 4-Runner went 185,000 miles
> before I sold it and it had the same compression (180 lbs./inch2) in each
> cylinder as the day it was new. Corvettes and I believe Porches come from
> the factory with Mobil-1 engine oil. My philosophy, put in the good stuff
> (Mobil-1) don't be afraid to rev it to the limiter (about 5,500 rpm in the
> 5.4L and the same for the 6.8L V-10) and enjoy it.
>
> Keith
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dhmccla ibm.net
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:First oil change
>
> >Alan,
> >
> >I personally think its all BS and agree with Union Auto. Every service
> >department will tell you something different. That factory installed
> >oil is no different than any other major brand oil you can buy at any
> >major auto store.
> >
> >I changed my first oil at 1700 miles (after 3 months) with 10w-30 Mobil
> >1 and specifically asked if there was a problem with using Mobil 1 and
> >the answer was absolutely no problem. Those days of a "break-in" oil
> >are long over. Never knew anyone to void a warranty or ruin an engine
> >changing the oil more often than recommended either.
> >
> >You are on a good schedule now for oil changes, keep it up. Dave
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> >
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:29:43 -0700
From: "Brandt Dennehy"
Subject: FTE 97up - Borla Cat back exhaust

I am interested in adding a Borla Cat back exhaust system to my 99 F-250
Superduty Supecab V-10........
I was just looking at the www.borla.com site and read that it may take 600
to 800 miles before one notices the results in newer vehicles, since the
computers may have to reprogram to notice the improve air-flow
characteristics.
Would it help speed it up the computer reprogramming if I unhooked the
battery after installation?
Anybody add a new exhaust system to their V-10 yet?
Thanks in advance for any input....

- -Brandt-

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:54:24 -0800
From: "Kevin Mayer"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Rim size?

They are 7".

Kevin

Bear Creek Consulting
Kevin Mayer
phone 425-702-9500
fax 425-702-0421
Web Site Development, Marketing and Hosting
www.bearcreeknet.com



- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Gene Ball
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 6:13 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Rim size?


Can some one tell me how wide my premium rims are?
I have the 265/ 75/ 16 tires! I think they are 8in?
I would like to know for sure so I can shop for taller and wider tires!
Super Duty F250 4X4 CC SB Lariat V10
By the way guys it goes in wensday night to get the rearend lowered!
Gene

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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:05:10 -0500
From: Dave
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:First oil change

Hey Guys,

Corvette and Vipers get Mobil 1 out of the factory and so does Porsche.

Unless someone here is a Petroleum Engineer and works with Ford Power
Train Systems to disapprove using a full synthetic in a new emgine, I'll
take my chances and sue Mobil Oil for a lousy product in the event of my
engine failing............ Dave
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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:00:07 -0800
From: The Hepburn
Subject: FTE 97up - New Truck!

Well, we finally did it - sold the old reliable 1990 F350 and called the
dealer to
start looking for a new F450. Called him last Wednesday morning and told
him to
look for an F450 Crew Cab, diesel, auto, XLT package. We were expecting
the usual
multi-month wait to order one and were pleasantly surprised on Thursday
that he had
found one, pretty much as we wanted down to the colour! Here's the
breakdown:

F450 4X2 Crew Cab Chassis/cab DRW 1999 model year $29180
Z1 Oxford White Clearcoat
32 Medium Graphite Cloth
Preferred Equipment pkg 657A, XLT trim 1820
52N Spd control/tilt steering whl
572 Air conditioning - CFC free
903 Power convenience pkg
99F 7.3L Power Stroke Turbo Diesel 4200
44E Electronic 4spd auto trans 995
T91 LT225/70R19.5F All Season
X78 4.88 ratio regular axle NC
TT/Diesel credit 115 -
153 Front license plate bracket NC
166 Floor mat in lieu of carpet 50 -
18L Cab Steps 370
207 15000 lb GVWR pkg NC
41H Engine block heater NC
422 California Emissions system NC
433 Sliding rear window 125
512 Spare tire and wheel 410
53T Front tow hooks 40
54Y Power trailer tow mirror 100
58K Premium AM/FM Cassette/CD 190
59R Aero headlamps NC
3 40/20/40 Cloth bench seat NC
2 Graphite NC
90P 6-way power drivers seat 290
948 Remote keyless entry 170
531 Trailer tow pkg 215


TOTAL $37940
destination & delivery 640
total before discounts 38580
special model discounts 730 -
------
TOTAL $37850

What we're paying $34062

It's supposed to arrive at Capitol Ford in San Jose, Ca this week, then
it's off to Western Truck Body to have a custom utility body put on, and
we should take delivery in about 4 weeks!

I'll let you all know how it goes ...


Alan Hepburn
Alan Hepburn.com
________________________________________________________
NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you?
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.netzero.net/download.html
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:16:44 -0800
From: Nicolas Mosaquites III
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: FTE T-shirts answers

Ken
At the end of your message you talk about the truck club been form ,I must
have missed that posting can you share that info with me again .By the way
today i ordered my t shirts can wait to get them.
Ken thanks for all your efforts I think the list is great.

Nick.Mosaquites

Ken Payne wrote:

> After yesterday's posting about the new Ford Truck
> Enthusiasts t-shirts, I received about a dozen emails
> asking about security of ordering over the Internet.
> I'm going to outline the measures taken:
>
> 1. If you use a browser that handles secure transactions
> (Netscape and Internet Explorer are amoung these)
> then your order from your browser is sent to our server
> using either 128 or 40 bit encryption. Your browser
> should indicate with a lock or key symbol somewhere on
> the screen (usually the bottom) when you get to the
> final order page that the transaction is secure.
>
> 2. The transactions are then further encrypted with PGP
> using 1024/512 bit RSA encryption and stored on our
> server.
>
> 3. Each evening these transactions are downloaded to our
> system in encrypted form and we decrypt them on our
> system. At no time is your personal information sent
> over public lines unencrypted.
>
> 4. Nova, the Visa/Mastercard/Amex processor, runs a credit
> check on both Ford Truck Enthusiasts and my personal
> credit. Credit requirements for an Internet business
> are tighter than non-Internet businesses to help insure
> ethical transaction practices.
>
> 5. Nova requires a publically stated return and shipping
> policy and we supply this on our order form.
>
> Concerning the Ford truck club that is being formed (still
> working on the Constitution for it)... if you join the
> club and have ordered a t-shirt, the club member t-shirt
> discount will be applied to your club membership fee. More
> on this later....
>
> Ken Payne
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:28:36 EST
From: Ford4x4 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:First oil change

I read on another site that some auto makers producing expensive cars,
perform a brake in process on there engines, allowing them to sell them with
synthetic oil in the oil pan. Normally synthetic or synthetic blend at break-
in, is not recommended. New or rebuilt reciprocating aero engine are not to
be babied, to insure the rings etc, seat correctly. I have read numerous
service letters supporting this.
Stuart
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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:25:46 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: FTE T-shirts answers

At 08:16 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Ken
>At the end of your message you talk about the truck club been form ,I must
>have missed that posting can you share that info with me again .By the way
>today i ordered my t shirts can wait to get them.
>Ken thanks for all your efforts I think the list is great.
>
>Nick.Mosaquites
>

Right now I'm still working on a club constitution. The
club will be a "mostly autonomous" division of FTE which
will be run by club members on a steering committee. It
will operate independently of FTE for the most part. Once
I make the final changes to the constitution I'm going to....

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