97up-list-digest Tuesday, June 1 1999 Volume 02 : Number 146



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - a little towing question
Re: FTE 97up - a little towing question
FTE 97up - Tow Rating of E-250 vrs E-350
Re: FTE 97up - Tow Rating of E-250 vrs E-350
FTE 97up - ADMIN: FOLLOW-UP
Re: FTE 97up - Drop-In vs Spray Liners
Re: FTE 97up - Drop-In vs Spray Liners
Re: FTE 97up - Tow Rating of E-250 vrs E-350
Re: FTE 97up - My 351
Re: FTE 97up - Tow Rating of E-250 vrs E-350
FTE 97up - 4.2 Exhaust Question

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:57:26 -0400
From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - a little towing question

At 12:29 AM 5/31/99 EDT, you wrote:
>i have the 98 f-150 4.2 5 spd tranny, if anyone has towed with this
truck,
>what is the max weight that you felt comfortable with towing??
>i am thinking of getting a flatbed trailer(dual axle), and possibly a boat.
>
>Bill


Bill - the experience of others will vary due to several factors, primarily
terrain and experience. A relative novice towing in the hills would feel
MUCH LESS comfortable with a given load versus an experienced driver in
rural flatlands. (You did ask about "feel"). What is *your* experience
and terrain? And as you know from recent discussions here, the manual
transmission supplied with the F-150 has no "creeper" gear, and Ford
derates towing capacity accordingly because it is more difficult to get the
load moving. Read the towing section of your manual carefully, and ask
questions here. You will notice the manual trans. is rated for less "GCWR"
(gross combined weight rating) than the automatic. You will also notice
that you need to know your axle ratio to read the charts, and you didn't
mention your ratio in your posting above. Good luck and be safe.

Best regards,
Steve O.
soffiler ici.net
in the hills of North Scituate RI
'97F-250HD 4x4 (old-style) w/ 351; 4.11's; auto; 13,000lb GCWR

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:49:46 EDT
From: CERESJohnG aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - a little towing question

Bill;

rom what I gather on your post, other than shrt hauls to the ramp this is not
your tow vehicle of choice. I'm guesstong the trailer is for the boat and if
you go to dual axle you are in at least the 18 to 19' class. You are still
going to pull a lot of weight around though and your clutch will not be a
happy camper especially on a steep ramp.

If, on the otherhand we are talking a dual axle flatbed utility trailer,
depends what you plan to haul with it. Lawn and garden equipment takes a lot
of room but doesnt weigh much (usually). load it with topsoil or firewood
and you have a new ball game. Most of those I have seen are something like
5000 lb capacity. Add about 1000 just for the trailer and it's over the 5000
tow limit. Most of these dual axles have brakes so thats a help but again,
it's not the transmission thats directly the weak link, it's the clutch.

I had an F100 6 cyl manual years ago and admittedly I abused the hell out of
it hauling firewood, a 20 foot boat and taught two kids to drive with it. I
religiously went through clutches and U joints. It got to the point, my son
and I could replace a clutch in an afternoon if we got it before I tore up
the flywheel clutch face got burnt.

The other comments are well taken about terrain, hills etc but I'm in flat
counry along the east coast. The problem pure and simple was clutch burn
during startup particularly in traffic. For towing, regardless of engine),
the automatic with an aftermarket cooler is by far the better chioce.

John Gustafson
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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 08:08:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Jordan
Subject: FTE 97up - Tow Rating of E-250 vrs E-350

My wife and I are looking at getting a Ford Econoline extended van with
the V10 and a 3.73 rear end to be used for towing.

According to the book at the Ford dealer there is about 2400 lbs
difference in the tow rating of the two models. According to the trailer
dealer, the only difference between the two are tire ratings and that the
E-250 will tow just as well as the E-350. We don't plan on towing 10,000
lbs, but the tariler we are looking at is about 26 feet with a dry weight
of 5770 and a GVWR rating of 7700 pounds. We have also looked at a 31
foot model that has a dry weight of 6420 and GVWR of 8600, which is more
than the rating of the E-250.

My question is, is there a difference in the drive train, transmission,
rear-end, etc., between the E-250 and E-350 or is it only the rating of
the tires that makes the difference? I believe the tires that come on the
E-250 were "D" and the E-350 were "E" rated.

Thanks for any answers.

Mike

- -------------------
Prineville, Oregon (Central Oregon)
Bouvier des Flandres - Carting, Herding & Clicker Training
The Mocassin Telegraph - Cherokee Genealogy
WWW: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.europa.com/~mjordan

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 12:43:39 -0400
From: Bill
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tow Rating of E-250 vrs E-350

I'm not sure of the rear spring difference between the 250
and the 350, but would expect the 350 to have stiffer rear
springs. With and extended van sometimes front to rear
bounce can be a problem unless you are very careful how you
balance out the loading of the trailer and becareful how you
load the van. My own experience towing with a van tells me
the 350 with heavier rear springs is the best choice.
Another thing to remember is the dry weight of the trailer
is in most cases the weight before adding the awning, A/C,
spare, any items that are options, plus the weight of food,
dishes, personal items, water, propane and such. If the
model you are looking at has a front kitchen this will load
more tongue weight. Many times a fully loaded trailer is
within 5% of the GVWR. In short the V10 and 3.73 is a good
choice and the E-350 is the one to haul it with. Happy
travels. Bill, 30+ years of trailer towing.

Mike Jordan wrote:
>
> My wife and I are looking at getting a Ford Econoline extended van with
> the V10 and a 3.73 rear end to be used for towing.
>
> According to the book at the Ford dealer there is about 2400 lbs
> difference in the tow rating of the two models. According to the trailer
> dealer, the only difference between the two are tire ratings and that the
> E-250 will tow just as well as the E-350. We don't plan on towing 10,000
> lbs, but the tariler we are looking at is about 26 feet with a dry weight
> of 5770 and a GVWR rating of 7700 pounds. We have also looked at a 31
> foot model that has a dry weight of 6420 and GVWR of 8600, which is more
> than the rating of the E-250.
>
> My question is, is there a difference in the drive train, transmission,
> rear-end, etc., between the E-250 and E-350 or is it only the rating of
> the tires that makes the difference? I believe the tires that come on the
> E-250 were "D" and the E-350 were "E" rated.
>
> Thanks for any answers.
>
> Mike
>
> -------------------
> Prineville, Oregon (Central Oregon)
> Bouvier des Flandres - Carting, Herding & Clicker Training
> The Mocassin Telegraph - Cherokee Genealogy
> WWW: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.europa.com/~mjordan
>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:49:54 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: FOLLOW-UP

This is a follow up of the announcements I made earlier.

I just want to make it clear that as always, FTE is free
and shall continue to operate as a free service. Membership
in the club (AFTE) is not required to be a member of FTE.

Additionally, the club is completely independent of FTE.
FTE merely licenses its trademark names to AFTE and also
provides Internet services for AFTE. I do not sit on the
board of AFTE for obvious conflict of interest reasons.
I'm sure Don Neighbors, the president of AFTE will make
some sort of announcement on behalf of the club later on.

Ken

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Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:36:39 -0400
From: zman
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Drop-In vs Spray Liners

ok
maybe I am stupid but if you back the truck far enough into the water
that the bed is "floating" you will have covered your exhaust and won't
be able to keep it running or get it started again right?



joe

RSnovi aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/28/99 10:57:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bsplaine sonic.net writes:
>
> OK, one BIG Problem with Line X if you ever happen to back a boat down into
> water to launch, VIOLA the back of your truck will float. Not too great in
> my book. This was informed to me when i picked up mine from haveing Rhino
> installed, he showed me a complete listing of all currently availible spray
> in Liners and their Pros and Cons, i think there was around 10 or so .
>
> RS
> 9sec93cobra
> 99F250SD PSD/SC/4x4
>
> I can't speak from full experience yet...... I'm waiting for my '00 PSD.
> However, what I know, Drop in liners can be noisey and deteriorate after
> time in the sun. They crack, warp and simply get a bad case of the UGLIES
> in short order. One of the worst problems is the condensation that
> accumulates under them and causes bed rust. I hated that after buying
> these things twice thinking they would protect the bed. The first time I
> thought it was a fluke and didn't investigate further... the second time I
> learned.
>
> I have researched (talked to lots of owners and applicators) of the two
> most popular spray-ins (Rhino and Line-X). One will not have any of the
> drawbacks seen with the drop-in's other then a slight greying of the liner
> after time. This can temporarily be fixed up with Armoral or something
> more to your liking. The liner looks great and doesn't tear up or gouge.
> If heavy things are placed in the bed the liner may develop a dent/dimple
> or whatever.. however, the problem is essentially self healing within a few
> moments. ie it returns to it's original shape.
>
> Differences between Rhino and Line-X.... I'm going to Line-X because it is
> harder. I saw a couple of demo's where a guy rubbed his Line-X with a
> sample he got from the Rhino dealer... the Rhino began to be abraided away.
> It looked like using a gum rubber eraser on a piece of paper.. The Rhino
> is sprayed on cold and takes some time to cure whereas the Line-X is
> sprayed on hot and cures in seconds. Rhino has a fairly irregular pattern
> whereas the Line-X has a good coarse pattern. Both look good but I lean to
> Line-X. Both go on about 1/4" thick and add some needed rigidity to these
> thin sheetmetal beds. I plan on carrying not only my 5th wheel but also my
> Harley Ultra once in a while....... I've heard of the beds bowing under the
> weight of a heavy motorcycle.. that sucks but I guess it's part of cost
> cutting and weight reduction of today's HD trucks....
>
> Hope these comments help you decide.... Just my $0.02
>
> Bil >>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:42:56 -0500
From: Perry Klein
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Drop-In vs Spray Liners

I've never floated but never turned the truck off when in the water either,
but while backed in the engine sits their happily bubbling away. Same way
with my old
94 F150. I'm assuming it would start just fine though. Regular old boat
motors that
vent through the prop, via the outdrive, don't seem to have a problem.

pk

>ok
>maybe I am stupid but if you back the truck far enough into the water
>that the bed is "floating" you will have covered your exhaust and won't
>be able to keep it running or get it started again right?

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:07:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Jordan
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tow Rating of E-250 vrs E-350

On Mon, 31 May 1999, Bill wrote:

Thanks for the comments, Bill,

> I'm not sure of the rear spring difference between the 250
> and the 350, but would expect the 350 to have stiffer rear
> springs. With and extended van sometimes front to rear
> bounce can be a problem unless you are very careful how you
> balance out the loading of the trailer and becareful how you

That's what I've heard also. The 138 inch wheelbase of the regular van is
suppose to be real good for towing, but the wheelbase stays the same for
the extended van and it is added to the rear.

> load the van. My own experience towing with a van tells me
> the 350 with heavier rear springs is the best choice.
> Another thing to remember is the dry weight of the trailer
> is in most cases the weight before adding the awning, A/C,
> spare, any items that are options, plus the weight of food,
> dishes, personal items, water, propane and such. If the

Right, and even taking in consideration of those, sometimes the trailer
weights more than the specifications say.

> model you are looking at has a front kitchen this will load
> more tongue weight. Many times a fully loaded trailer is

More tongue weight is better, but in the trailer we are looking at the
kitchen is in the middle over the wheels. The queen bed is in the front
with the fresh water tank under the bed.


> within 5% of the GVWR. In short the V10 and 3.73 is a good
> choice and the E-350 is the one to haul it with. Happy
> travels. Bill, 30+ years of trailer towing.
>

Thanks Bill. I'm pulling a 22 foot trailer with my 93 Dodge Dakota with
the 318 and have had a good time. My wife raises herding dogs and right
now we travel with 6, plus their crates (they travel crated), a dog cart,
and a bunch of other things, and the only way to carry it all (especially
when we don't tow the trailer) is the extended van. Even though a 4.10
rear end is recommended, with the extra power of the V10, I don't think
we'll lose anything with the 3.73 and will gain a little bit of gas
mileage when we aren't towing.

We are finding them hard to find here in the Portland area though. They
have the Club Wagons but want to charge us a bundle for the passanger part
when for us the seats would come out anyway. The few we have found are
either set up for strictly commercial use or about as spartan as you can
get. We may have to order one, but I suppose they have stopped accepting
orders for those like with the trucks, or will be by the time we are ready
to order one.

Thanks again, Bill.

Mike


- -------------------
Prineville, Oregon (Central Oregon)
Bouvier des Flandres - Carting, Herding & Clicker Training
The Mocassin Telegraph - Cherokee Genealogy
WWW: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.europa.com/~mjordan

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:30:07 EDT
From: BigFords1 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - My 351

Thanks!
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 00:15:49 -0400
From: Bill
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Tow Rating of E-250 vrs E-350

Forgot to tell you I'm pulling a 5th wheel close to 10k with
a V10 and 4.30. As far as pulling I hardly know the trailer
is back there. It pulls in overdrive at about 60 to 65 and
is rare to drop out of overdrive. This is in a 1999 F-250
supercab. Towing I get about 9.5 MPG, running empty it gets
14.5 at the same 60 to 65 mph. There hard to find here in
Michigan also, good luck with whatever you purchase. I just
retired from Ford Motor Co. last august after 33 years

Mike Jordan wrote:
>
> On Mon, 31 May 1999, Bill wrote:
>
> Thanks for the comments, Bill,
>
> > I'm not sure of the rear spring difference between the 250
> > and the 350, but would expect the 350 to have stiffer rear
> > springs. With and extended van sometimes front to rear
> > bounce can be a problem unless you are very careful how you
> > balance out the loading of the trailer and becareful how you
>
> That's what I've heard also. The 138 inch wheelbase of the regular van is
> suppose to be real good for towing, but the wheelbase stays the same for
> the extended van and it is added to the rear.
>
> > load the van. My own experience towing with a van tells me
> > the 350 with heavier rear springs is the best choice.
> > Another thing to remember is the dry weight of the trailer
> > is in most cases the weight before adding the awning, A/C,
> > spare, any items that are options, plus the weight of food,
> > dishes, personal items, water, propane and such. If the
>
> Right, and even taking in consideration of those, sometimes the trailer
> weights more than the specifications say.
>
> > model you are looking at has a front kitchen this will load
> > more tongue weight. Many times a fully loaded trailer is
>
> More tongue weight is better, but in the trailer we are looking at the
> kitchen is in the middle over the wheels. The queen bed is in the front
> with the fresh water tank under the bed.
>
> > within 5% of the GVWR. In short the V10 and 3.73 is a good
> > choice and the E-350 is the one to haul it with. Happy
> > travels. Bill, 30+ years of trailer towing.
> >
>
> Thanks Bill. I'm pulling a 22 foot trailer with my 93 Dodge Dakota with
> the 318 and have had a good time. My wife raises herding dogs and right
> now we travel with 6, plus their crates (they travel crated), a dog cart,
> and a bunch of other things, and the only way to carry it all (especially
> when we don't tow the trailer) is the extended van. Even though a 4.10
> rear end is recommended, with the extra power of the V10, I don't think
> we'll lose anything with the 3.73 and will gain a little bit of gas
> mileage when we aren't towing.
>
> We are finding them hard to find here in the Portland area though. They
> have the Club Wagons but want to charge us a bundle for the passanger part
> when for us the seats would come out anyway. The few we have found are
> either set up for strictly commercial use or about as spartan as you can
> get. We may have to order one, but I suppose they have stopped accepting
> orders for those like with the trucks, or will be by the time we are ready
> to order one.
>
> Thanks again, Bill.
>
> Mike
>
> -------------------
> Prineville, Oregon (Central Oregon)
> Bouvier des Flandres - Carting, Herding & Clicker Training
> The Mocassin Telegraph - Cherokee Genealogy
> WWW: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.europa.com/~mjordan
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:30:48 -0700
From: "Larry Drum"
Subject: FTE 97up - 4.2 Exhaust Question

Howdy Y'all,

I have a '99 with the 4.2 & 5spd. I am looking for a "Meatier" sound from
the exhaust. I realize that it is only a V6 and will never sound like a V8.
I have also heard that the Flowmaster Muffler's work great and produce
awesome sound. I am not really looking for a "Cat-Back" system, the Bends
on the existing pipes are close enough to Mandrel Bends. My questions are:
Is the flowmaster a good choice? And if not, any recommendations for
another brand? And those of you who have the Flow's on the 4.2, Your
thoughts/Impressions?

Thanks in advance,


Larry Drum
Captain, CHP Explorer Post #834
Needles Area
Webmaster - www.chpexplorer.org

'99 F-150 XL, Bright Red, 2WD, 4.2 V-6, 5 Spd. 3.55 LS, BugFlector II, Vent
Visors, Rhino Lining Bed Liner. Maxon 40 Channel W/10 Channel Weather CB.
Maxon "Through the Glass" CB Antenna (Awesome Performance) W/Weather Band.
(Lowering Kit Coming Soon :o).

Sound System :o) -

Alpine In Dish 6 Disk Changer/Receiver Head Unit (Alpine Model # MDA-W890).
4 Infinity Kappa Series 5 X 7 Door and Rear Panel Speakers. 2 Cerwin Vega....


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