97up-list-digest Monday, April 19 1999 Volume 02 : Number 101



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - PIAA's installed, battery running good.
RE: FTE 97up - Re:second battery in my f-150?
RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question
FTE 97up - AXLE INFO WANTED..
Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets
FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?
Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question
RE: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?
FTE 97up - CB/SSB Noise in 99 PSD
RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question, Now Engineering Geeks on Heat Transfer
FTE 97up - AXLE INFO WANTED.. -Reply
RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question, Now Engineering Geeks on Heat Tran sfer
RE: FTE 97up - AXLE INFO WANTED.. -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?
FTE 97up - ADMIN: Ford Motorsports Enthusiasts gathering
RE: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?
Re: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?
Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question
FTE 97up - Ignition Key warning Chime
Re: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?
FTE 97up - letter from Ford
RE: FTE 97up - letter from Ford
FTE 97up - SuperChips for the 1999 F250 PSD - Anyone?
RE: FTE 97up - letter from Ford
FTE 97up - letter from Ford -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - PIAA's installed, battery running good.
Re: FTE 97up - letter from Ford
RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question
Re: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?
RE: FTE 97up - SuperChips for the 1999 F250 PSD - Anyone?
Re: FTE 97up - SuperChips for the 1999 F250 PSD - Anyone?
Re: FTE 97up - letter from Ford -Reply
Re: FTE 97up - letter from Ford

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 99 06:58:08 +0000
From: mattadams pcisys.com
Subject: FTE 97up - PIAA's installed, battery running good.

Just an update for everyone, I installed the PIAA lights this weekend.
Installation was about the easiest electrical I had ever installed on my
truck. Took about an hour per set (2 hours total), and most of that was just
figuring out where to mount the relays/remote receivers.The lights are super-
bright, its like driving during the day! Overall, I am much more impressed
with the PIAA's then I was with my Hellas (as many of you may remember, my
hella installation took until approximately 3 am, about 7-8 hours). I am
waiting for my replacement headlight bulbs that were on backorder, but
hopefully those will be coming in soon! Just to test it I left my truck off,
and turned on all my lights, stereo, etc. Everything ran fine, battery didn't
lose any power at all... I think Im good to put on some more lights (ha ha).

Matt

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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:23:58 -0500
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Re:second battery in my f-150?

Matt,

Hook up a voltmeter across your battery terminals and crank up everything.
If the voltage stays above 12 (say about 12.2) then your alternator is still
charging your battery and you should be okay. If not, I recommend a bigger
alternator or a second one. I think the regular alternator is 75 amps and
the heavy duty one is 90 amps. Good luck.

George

1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
1999 F250 SD CC V10

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matt Adams [mailto:mattadams pcisys.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 10:07 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re:second battery in my f-150?


Here is what it equals out to more...

Thanks for the tips, here is how it is actually...
350 watt amp = 29 amps +/-
PIAA 520 85 watt total = 7 amps +/-
PIAA 910 110 watt total = 9 amps +/-
PIAA 85 watt replacement headlights = 7 amps +/-
I decided to get rid of the hellas. That equals 52 amps total (if
everything was on), plus the stereo and miscellaneous things. I've got the
heavy duty altenator (though I dont know how many amps that equals and
havent seen it anywhere). Hypothetically, lets say that at one point I have
the stereo, headlights, and driving lights going, should I still be ok? Man,
beware who every drives in front of me, with upwards of 300 watts worth of
lights on there, ouch! LOL.

Matt
- -----Original Message-----
From: Lee Haefele
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 5:53 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:second battery in my f-150?


>> At this point you are probably ok. 110 + 85 +350 = 460 watts. Divide by
12 to
>> get amps and you are at about 45 .5 amps so yes the alternator should
keep up
> I assume he meant that the lights were 110 watts EACH, for 2. You may
>need more power.
> Next there was a question about using ambulance aux alternator
>brackets on a gas 5.4, this won't work as all ambulances are Diesel.
> If you check companies that mount snowplows, truck bodies or aerial
>lifts, there are brackets made to mount belt driven hydraulic pumps,
>these should work for an aux alternator, or they may have a specific alt
>bracket.
> I recommend deep cycle batteries, regular car batteries will not last
>if discharged regularly. I use an 8D deep cycle (110 lbs) to power my
>aerial lift electro/hydraulic unit. If I don't do enough driving to
>recharge the batteries, I charge at night with a 10 amp auto shutoff
>charger. The 8D is in the bed, wired with 1/0 cable size, so voltage
>front/rear is the same. The $55 group 27 boat batteries are also a good
>value for the amount of power, and usually can be made to fit in the
>factory mount.
>Lee Haefele
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>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:53:12 -0500
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question

Steve,

Excellent post. One error, however. Dark colors have a higher emissivity
than light colors, but may not have a higher emissivity than 'shiny'
surfaces. In heat transfer, brown bodies are defined as surfaces for which
the constant of absorptivity and emmissivity are numerically equal. This is
true for most fairly rough surfaces, but is not true for shiny surfaces.
Something painted flat silver will have a low absorptivity and a low
emmissivity and will not radiate heat very well. On the other hand, a shiny
silver surface such as chrome will have a low absorptivity but a high
emmissivity and will thus shed a lot of heat by radiation.

Given that, I still think that painting metal parts flat black will probably
result in more radiation and is certainly cheaper than chrome plating. I
also agree that convection probably plays the largest role in a moving
vehicle. If things are slow at work today I may do a calculation just for
kicks.

Again, that was an excellent summary of heat transfer. Are you a teacher?

George

1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
1999 SD CC V10

- -----Original Message-----
From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler [mailto:soffiler ici.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 6:58 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question



>>Second, anything that you would like to dissipate heat should be
>>painted black... (snip)

>This is literally true, but the difference between black (flat black being
>best) and rusty brown is probably insignificant compared to light color
>paint and especially shiny metal.... (snip)

>How about the guys who chrome their diffs!

Folks - quick lesson in heat transfer. There are three ways heat moves.
(1) conduction: a warmer body in direct contact with a cooler body, and
heat flows from warmer to cooler; (2) convection: a warm body transfers
heat to the air immediately surrounding it by conduction, and the warmed
air rises, allowing more cool air to come into contact and be warmed by
convection, and so on... (2a) subset of #2 is forced convection: where the
air is moved not by natural gravitational forces but rather by fans or
anything else that causes airflow; (3) radiation: a warm body radiates
energy into space, based on "emissivity" factor of the surface... dark
colors have significantly higher emissivity than shiny colors.

Now, about those guys that chrome their diff. covers: I'd guess that
convection, and probably a form of forced convection based on airflow from
driving down the road, will cool the diff sufficiently. Racing and serious
offroad applications might benefit from a black diff cover, in the
hairy-edge situations where they need all the help they can get. The
amount of heat transfer from the differential due to radiation (the only
form of heat transfer that is affected by color) for a normal road vehicle
is fairly minimal.

Hope this helps. Please don't crucify the newbie.

Steve O.
soffiler ici.net
North Scituate RI

'97 F-250 HD.... does my "old-style" truck fit into the 97-up group???

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:55:54 -0500
From: "Chris Patrick"
Subject: FTE 97up - AXLE INFO WANTED..

Im lookin' for information on the axles currently under the full size fords.

specifically, what is under which and what years, and if anyone knows the
width of these axles, and the offset of the front pumpkin, that would be
good information


dana 60
dana 70
ford 8.8?

whats under what?

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:30:49 -0500
From: Mike Smith
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - door gaskets

250 SD Extend cab with factory running boards, build date of 3-19-98
it has the gaskets

mike
At 10:35 PM 4/11/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>
>F250, Diesel, long bed 1999, with no running boards. Did come with the
>gaskets.
>
>Roger H.
>
>
>
>
>On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:23:13 -0400 GEORGE CROLL
> writes:
>>Went to the local dealer and tried to get him to put gaskets on the
>>bottom of my doors for free. While arguing with him
>>we looked at all of the SD trucks on the lot. The only trucks without
>>the gaskets are ones with factory running
>>boards. The dealer "assumes" that the gaskets are not necesssary if
>>the running boards are on the truck. Any truth
>>to this???
>>
>>George Croll
>>EPA-OAR-ARD
>>(202)564-0162
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>
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:36:23 -0400
From: Bill Sullivan
Subject: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?

Hey,

Ok, I have the 99 F-150 SuperCab, Flareside, Triton 5.4 V8, 4spd
auto /w OD, and limited slip rear, and a mod of a pacesetter cat-back
system. This has been bothering me. But, does anyone know if it is
infact true, that these engines are governed? The other day I was out
at around 3am, on the expressway, and decided to open the engine up...
alot! So, it performed very nicely, went through the gears nicely,
etc. The one thing I noticed is that when the pedal is to the floor,
the trans peaks out at about 5000/5500 RPM and shifts out of second at
around 80/85mph, which I liked very much, but the thing that bothered me
the most, is when I peaked out alittle over 100 (the odometer only goes
up to100, but explorer's odometer goes up to 120, what is that about?),
but sticking to the topic, alittle over 100mph, there's some type of
fuel cut off device? This I don't quite understand, I believe it has
something to do with a rev limiter that cuts off the fuel when the RPM
peaks out to a certain point, but I KNOW that engine is perfectly
capable of doing well over 100mph, considering it doesn't even shift out
of second until 80/85. Does anyone have knowledge of this? Does it
have to do with the gearing of the truck? I most deffinetely know that
the truck is not meant to drive at excessive speeds like that in the
first place, but still, it should be available when desired (max speed
that is, which I feel the truck is being robbed of). Is the limiter (if
there truely is one) there to prevent transmission damage because of
excessive RPMs? Maybe it's a good idea, but it certainly does make it
feel as if speed is 'governed'. If so, is there some way to remove the
rev limiter? Wouldn't it just be a chip of some sort on the CPU for the
truck? Can anyone help me out here? Any feedback would be greatly
appreciated. Also does anyone know if there are any performance chips
out for the 99's with the 5.4 liter triton's yet? I've been looking
around, but have not found anything yet. Thanks for your feedback in
advance.

- -Bill Sullivan

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:41:09 -0500
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question

My F250 Super Duty 4x4 "Off Road", was built March 12, 1999, and its
axle and much of everything else is painted black. The black paint has very
little sheen but not what I would call flat black.

What was not painted was the a significant bracket that joined the axle on the
right front side to the wheel (my first 4x4 and don't know what you call it).
And
the transfer case's cover. Both articles had only slight surface rust in spots.

Yesterday I painted both with Hammerite, a super hard, high gloss black,
rust preventative paint. I brushed it on quite liberally and got some sags and
runs.
But all and all looks pretty good. Better than rust. I masked the bolt heads,
access
plug and metal ID tag, so these will eventually rust in time (may think of
painting in
future).

Hammerite paint if you never used it, has glass fakes in it and dries to the
touch in
a couple of hours - and rock hard in about 30 days.

Charles.


George Rigney wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Excellent post. One error, however. Dark colors have a higher emissivity
> than light colors, but may not have a higher emissivity than 'shiny'
> surfaces. In heat transfer, brown bodies are defined as surfaces for which
> the constant of absorptivity and emmissivity are numerically equal. This is
> true for most fairly rough surfaces, but is not true for shiny surfaces.
> Something painted flat silver will have a low absorptivity and a low
> emmissivity and will not radiate heat very well. On the other hand, a shiny
> silver surface such as chrome will have a low absorptivity but a high
> emmissivity and will thus shed a lot of heat by radiation.
>
> Given that, I still think that painting metal parts flat black will probably
> result in more radiation and is certainly cheaper than chrome plating. I
> also agree that convection probably plays the largest role in a moving
> vehicle. If things are slow at work today I may do a calculation just for
> kicks.
>
> Again, that was an excellent summary of heat transfer. Are you a teacher?
>
> George
>
> 1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
> 1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
> 1999 SD CC V10
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler [mailto:soffiler ici.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 6:58 PM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question
>
> >>Second, anything that you would like to dissipate heat should be
> >>painted black... (snip)
>
> >This is literally true, but the difference between black (flat black being
> >best) and rusty brown is probably insignificant compared to light color
> >paint and especially shiny metal.... (snip)
>
> >How about the guys who chrome their diffs!
>
> Folks - quick lesson in heat transfer. There are three ways heat moves.
> (1) conduction: a warmer body in direct contact with a cooler body, and
> heat flows from warmer to cooler; (2) convection: a warm body transfers
> heat to the air immediately surrounding it by conduction, and the warmed
> air rises, allowing more cool air to come into contact and be warmed by
> convection, and so on... (2a) subset of #2 is forced convection: where the
> air is moved not by natural gravitational forces but rather by fans or
> anything else that causes airflow; (3) radiation: a warm body radiates
> energy into space, based on "emissivity" factor of the surface... dark
> colors have significantly higher emissivity than shiny colors.
>
> Now, about those guys that chrome their diff. covers: I'd guess that
> convection, and probably a form of forced convection based on airflow from
> driving down the road, will cool the diff sufficiently. Racing and serious
> offroad applications might benefit from a black diff cover, in the
> hairy-edge situations where they need all the help they can get. The
> amount of heat transfer from the differential due to radiation (the only
> form of heat transfer that is affected by color) for a normal road vehicle
> is fairly minimal.
>
> Hope this helps. Please don't crucify the newbie.
>
> Steve O.
> soffiler ici.net
> North Scituate RI
>
> '97 F-250 HD.... does my "old-style" truck fit into the 97-up group???
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:02:08 -0500
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?

Bill,

I don't know about transmission damage, but there is a critical speed in any
cam-follower system. Exceeding that speed will cause the follower to
briefly lose contact with the cam shaft every revolution. There is thus a
small impact force when the follower regains contact. It is possible that
the limiter is there to prevent you from exceeding the camshaft's critical
speed, which will eventually cause damage to your camshaft. There are
supposed to be chips that will allow you to exceed the rev limit, but I
would use them with caution. If you hear valves clattering, slow down or
you will be looking at a new camshaft and/or new valve tappets down the
road.

George

1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
1999 SD CC V10

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Sullivan [mailto:pulse1 home.com]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 10:36 AM
To: Ford Trucks' mailing list
Subject: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?


Hey,

Ok, I have the 99 F-150 SuperCab, Flareside, Triton 5.4 V8, 4spd
auto /w OD, and limited slip rear, and a mod of a pacesetter cat-back
system. This has been bothering me. But, does anyone know if it is
infact true, that these engines are governed? The other day I was out
at around 3am, on the expressway, and decided to open the engine up...
alot! So, it performed very nicely, went through the gears nicely,
etc. The one thing I noticed is that when the pedal is to the floor,
the trans peaks out at about 5000/5500 RPM and shifts out of second at
around 80/85mph, which I liked very much, but the thing that bothered me
the most, is when I peaked out alittle over 100 (the odometer only goes
up to100, but explorer's odometer goes up to 120, what is that about?),
but sticking to the topic, alittle over 100mph, there's some type of
fuel cut off device? This I don't quite understand, I believe it has
something to do with a rev limiter that cuts off the fuel when the RPM
peaks out to a certain point, but I KNOW that engine is perfectly
capable of doing well over 100mph, considering it doesn't even shift out
of second until 80/85. Does anyone have knowledge of this? Does it
have to do with the gearing of the truck? I most deffinetely know that
the truck is not meant to drive at excessive speeds like that in the
first place, but still, it should be available when desired (max speed
that is, which I feel the truck is being robbed of). Is the limiter (if
there truely is one) there to prevent transmission damage because of
excessive RPMs? Maybe it's a good idea, but it certainly does make it
feel as if speed is 'governed'. If so, is there some way to remove the
rev limiter? Wouldn't it just be a chip of some sort on the CPU for the
truck? Can anyone help me out here? Any feedback would be greatly
appreciated. Also does anyone know if there are any performance chips
out for the 99's with the 5.4 liter triton's yet? I've been looking
around, but have not found anything yet. Thanks for your feedback in
advance.

- -Bill Sullivan

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:47:54 -0400
From: "Philip Kubat"
Subject: FTE 97up - CB/SSB Noise in 99 PSD

I own a 99 F250 SC with a Powerstroke diesel engine. I am picking up a
"running" noise that changes slightly with RPM, mostly on SSB. It is not
whine, but rather a series of quick clicks that run together. The noise
seems to be being picked up by the antenna, if I disconnect the antenna from
the rear of the radio the noise stops. I have wired cb radio directly to the
battery with 10 gauge wire and a filter (did this prior to checking the
antenna). The power cable is not lead with any other wiring. I run a Wilson
5000 mag mount in the center of the roof, the coax does through the right
rear door, hooked behind the shoulder belt, along the floor, under the mats
to center hump (Its place over everything, not ran permanently). Being its
a diesel I know its not ignition, but what could it be (injectors, computer,
fuel pump)? Does any one else have this problem? If not what's different in
your setup? Any ideas on how to fix it?

Thanks for the help.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:13:48 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question, Now Engineering Geeks on Heat Transfer

Sorry but I couldn't resist.

Radiative heat loss rate is generally estimated as the product of the Stephan Boltzmann constant, the exposed
surface area, the temperature raised to the fourth power and the emissivity.

dQ/dt = K*e*A*T^4

This equation yields the following general picture of radiant losses. When a differential (or motor or headers or
whatever) gets hot the heat loss by radiation increases dramatically (4th power of the temp) A simple way of
thinking of this is that metal glows when it gets hot. The "glowing" is a visual manifestation of the radiant heat loss at
high temperature. For a normal differential temperature (50-150 degrees F) the dominant heat transfer mechanism is
usually convection as the radiant losses are low and the only path for conduction is through the tires to the ground
or through the spring perches to the rest of the truck. this becomes even more true when driving and air is passing
over the axle and increasing convection (see forced convection)

As for the emissivity in the equation, it accounts for differences in surfaces (black vs chrome vs rust) The
emissivity of rusted iron is 0.74 while polished iron is 0.14. To put these numbers in context an emissivity of zero
would result in no loss of heat and an emissivity of 1 would be the theoretical maximum. In the table I am looking at all
of the highly polished surfaces have very low emissivities. The bottom line is that a very hot differential with a fully
polished exterior would be about 60% less efficient at losing heat than a rusty one. Oil paint has an emissivity of
0.92 to 0.96 according to this table and is therefor the best choice for heat loss due to radiation. (A.K.A. the dealer
lied when he said rust was better than paint)

Table from Plant Design for chemical Engineers by Mc Graw Hill
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:31:16 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: FTE 97up - AXLE INFO WANTED.. -Reply

F-250 and F-350 super duty, single rear wheel. Dana 50 front (new axle type from dana), Ford 10.25 full float rear.
Dual rear wheel applications have a Dana Axle (not sure which, I think 70 or 80) There may be Dana 60's under the
fornt of dual wheel one ton trucks as well. It is also worth noting that the wheels are hubcentric and have an odd
wheel lugnut arrangment which limits wheel selection for the super duty trucks. All have 4 wheel disk brakes.

do not know about the F-150's other than IFS in front and they do not have the 10.25 in rear.

If you are looking for good solid axles for a swap into another vehicle look at the older F-150's and broncos. From
the late 60's until the advent of TTB these trucks had bulletproof ford 9" rear and dana 44 front setup. These axles
are common and easy to get parts for.
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:47:31 -0500
From: George Rigney
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question, Now Engineering Geeks on Heat Tran sfer

Interesting. Is that because the rough surface actually has more surface
area? Does your table have a value for a flat black surface vs. a glossy
black surface?

George

1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
1999 SD CC V10

- -----Original Message-----
From: GEORGE CROLL [mailto:CROLL.GEORGE epamail.epa.gov]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 10:14 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question, Now Engineering Geeks on Heat
Transfer


would result in no loss of heat and an emissivity of 1 would be the
theoretical maximum. In the table I am looking at all
of the highly polished surfaces have very low emissivities. The bottom line
is that a very hot
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:38:47 -0500
From: "Chris Patrick"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - AXLE INFO WANTED.. -Reply

thanks... good info

> F-250 and F-350 super duty, single rear wheel. Dana 50 front
> (new axle type from dana), Ford 10.25 full float rear.
> Dual rear wheel applications have a Dana Axle (not sure
> which, I think 70 or 80) There may be Dana 60's under the
> fornt of dual wheel one ton trucks as well. It is also worth
> noting that the wheels are hubcentric and have an odd
> wheel lugnut arrangment which limits wheel selection for the
> super duty trucks. All have 4 wheel disk brakes.



> If you are looking for good solid axles for a swap into
> another vehicle look at the older F-150's and broncos. From
> the late 60's until the advent of TTB these trucks had
> bulletproof ford 9" rear and dana 44 front setup. These axles
> are common and easy to get parts for.

nope.. im shredding dana 44 (fronts) the 9" is an OK rear end once beefed,
but the low pinion makes it a tuff swap for a tall, short wheelbase truck..
plus, the 9" is not as durable as the dana 60's...

what im looking for is something like a dana 60 in front, and a dana 70 or
better in back....... problem is im looking for something with the same bolt
pattern front and rear, for wheel selection purposes... been looking at full
size GM setups, dana 60 front, corp 14 rear, but wondering what was under
the fords...

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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:03:33 -0700
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?

Bill,

What you are encountering is a speed limiter, not a rev limiter. These are 2
different things and both are present. You can get a chip burned that will
remove either of them, or both of them. But I'd leave the rev limiter alone.
If you want to remove the speed limiter (which is set around 100mph on most
Ford Trucks), get the driveshaft balanced by a professional shop. Be sure to
tell them your gearing and the maximum speed you want it balanced to.

Rob

> Hey,
>
> Ok, I have the 99 F-150 SuperCab, Flareside, Triton 5.4 V8, 4spd
> auto /w OD, and limited slip rear, and a mod of a pacesetter cat-back
> system. This has been bothering me. But, does anyone know if it is
> infact true, that these engines are governed? The other day I was out
> at around 3am, on the expressway, and decided to open the engine up...
> alot! So, it performed very nicely, went through the gears nicely,
> etc. The one thing I noticed is that when the pedal is to the floor,
> the trans peaks out at about 5000/5500 RPM and shifts out of second at
> around 80/85mph, which I liked very much, but the thing that bothered me
> the most, is when I peaked out alittle over 100 (the odometer only goes
> up to100, but explorer's odometer goes up to 120, what is that about?),
> but sticking to the topic, alittle over 100mph, there's some type of
> fuel cut off device? This I don't quite understand, I believe it has
> something to do with a rev limiter that cuts off the fuel when the RPM
> peaks out to a certain point, but I KNOW that engine is perfectly
> capable of doing well over 100mph, considering it doesn't even shift out
> of second until 80/85. Does anyone have knowledge of this? Does it
> have to do with the gearing of the truck? I most deffinetely know that
> the truck is not meant to drive at excessive speeds like that in the
> first place, but still, it should be available when desired (max speed
> that is, which I feel the truck is being robbed of). Is the limiter (if
> there truely is one) there to prevent transmission damage because of
> excessive RPMs? Maybe it's a good idea, but it certainly does make it
> feel as if speed is 'governed'. If so, is there some way to remove the
> rev limiter? Wouldn't it just be a chip of some sort on the CPU for the
> truck? Can anyone help me out here? Any feedback would be greatly
> appreciated. Also does anyone know if there are any performance chips
> out for the 99's with the 5.4 liter triton's yet? I've been looking
> around, but have not found anything yet. Thanks for your feedback in
> advance.
>
> -Bill Sullivan
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:41:28 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: Ford Motorsports Enthusiasts gathering

This is a reminder to those who said they plan on attending the
Ford Motorsports Enthusiasts event at Ford's world headquarters
(Dearborn).

The event will be this Thursday. If you lost the directions and
schedule (or never had them), email me privately
(kpayne ford-trucks.com) and I'll send them. Wear your Ford
Truck Enthusiasts t-shirt to show everyone who you represent. There
should be several clubs there and its a great chance to meet others
and see what Ford has planned.

I'll be flying there for the day (Peggy can't make it) and I
look forward to meeting some of you!

Ken Payne
Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:47:38 -0500
From: "Chris Patrick"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?

THIS IS THE INFORMATION I ASKED FOR 3 MONTHS AGO ;-)

tell me more.. is the sensor for the speed limiter (not the rev limiter)
located on the driveshaft? Tom Wood of 4xShafts does my driveshafts for my
competition Jeeps, but i never had to have a driveshaft made for my truck.

does this affect anything else with the truck?


> Bill,
>
> What you are encountering is a speed limiter, not a rev
> limiter. These are 2
> different things and both are present. You can get a chip
> burned that will
> remove either of them, or both of them. But I'd leave the rev
> limiter alone.
> If you want to remove the speed limiter (which is set around
> 100mph on most
> Ford Trucks), get the driveshaft balanced by a professional
> shop. Be sure to
> tell them your gearing and the maximum speed you want it balanced to.
>
> Rob

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:08:34 -0400
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?

Bill Sullivan wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> Ok, I have the 99 F-150 SuperCab, Flareside, Triton 5.4 V8, 4spd
> auto /w OD, and limited slip rear, and a mod of a pacesetter cat-back
> system. This has been bothering me. But, does anyone know if it is
> infact true, that these engines are governed? The other day I was out
> at around 3am, on the expressway, and decided to open the engine up...
> alot! So, it performed very nicely, went through the gears nicely,
> etc. The one thing I noticed is that when the pedal is to the floor,
> the trans peaks out at about 5000/5500 RPM and shifts out of second at
> around 80/85mph, which I liked very much, but the thing that bothered me
> the most, is when I peaked out alittle over 100 (the odometer only goes
> up to100, but explorer's odometer goes up to 120, what is that about?),
> but sticking to the topic, alittle over 100mph, there's some type of
> fuel cut off device? This I don't quite understand, I believe it has
> something to do with a rev limiter that cuts off the fuel when the RPM
> peaks out to a certain point, but I KNOW that engine is perfectly
> capable of doing well over 100mph, considering it doesn't even shift out
> of second until 80/85. Does anyone have knowledge of this? Does it
> have to do with the gearing of the truck? I most deffinetely know that
> the truck is not meant to drive at excessive speeds like that in the
> first place, but still, it should be available when desired (max speed
> that is, which I feel the truck is being robbed of). Is the limiter (if
> there truely is one) there to prevent transmission damage because of
> excessive RPMs? Maybe it's a good idea, but it certainly does make it
> feel as if speed is 'governed'. If so, is there some way to remove the
> rev limiter? Wouldn't it just be a chip of some sort on the CPU for the
> truck? Can anyone help me out here? Any feedback would be greatly
> appreciated. Also does anyone know if there are any performance chips
> out for the 99's with the 5.4 liter triton's yet? I've been looking
> around, but have not found anything yet. Thanks for your feedback in
> advance.
>
> -Bill Sullivan
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Bill,

The 97+ f-150s have a speed limiter that kicks in anywhere
from 97 to 105 mph. It also has a revlimiter. Put your
truck in neutral and floor it and it should kick in at about
4500 rpm. I have a 97 5spd 4x4. Superchips programmed a
chip that sets the revlimiter to 6500 rpm (not recommended
for an automatic) and removes the top speed limiter. My
wife's 99 Explorer 4.0 L DOHV Sport has a revlimiter at 6000
rpm and the speed limiter is set at about 100 mph.
Superchips can be reached through
Mike Troyer at Performance Products, Inc. (540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer compuserve.com He is the National
Distributor of Superchips.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier

PS you might want to look at Hypertech and JET as I know
they make chips for the 97-98 Fs. When I last checked JET
would not change the speed or revlimiter and Hypertech would
bump them up a little but the tech wasn't sure how much.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:11:07 -0400
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question

Charles Abraham wrote:
>
> My F250 Super Duty 4x4 "Off Road", was built March 12, 1999, and its
> axle and much of everything else is painted black. The black paint has very
> little sheen but not what I would call flat black.
>
> What was not painted was the a significant bracket that joined the axle on the
> right front side to the wheel (my first 4x4 and don't know what you call it).
> And
> the transfer case's cover. Both articles had only slight surface rust in spots.
>
> Yesterday I painted both with Hammerite, a super hard, high gloss black,
> rust preventative paint. I brushed it on quite liberally and got some sags and
> runs.
> But all and all looks pretty good. Better than rust. I masked the bolt heads,
> access
> plug and metal ID tag, so these will eventually rust in time (may think of
> painting in
> future).
>
> Hammerite paint if you never used it, has glass fakes in it and dries to the
> touch in
> a couple of hours - and rock hard in about 30 days.
>
> Charles.
>
Charles,

While you are under there why not clear coat the tag. It
should keep it from rusting and you can still read it.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:43:34 -0700
From: "Robert Benne"
Subject: FTE 97up - Ignition Key warning Chime

Okay, am I wrong or is the chime on the 99 SD one of the more obnoxious ones
around? Anyone know a simple way to disable/disconnect it?


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:56:59 -0700
From: "Rob Bryan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?

The sensor ('97-98) was on the transmission. With the '99, it _may_ have
moved to the rear axle (RABS sensor) like the '92-'96 trucks. It is the same
sensor that runs the speedometer. Either way, you don't want to mess with
this sensor for this purpose. You change the limiter by reprogramming the
ECM with a chip that plugs into the service port of the computer. You can
get these programmed to do things like up the timing, firm the shifting,
etc., but there is no reason why one can't be made to just remove the speed
limiter.

You need to get the driveshaft balanced since they start oscillating at
speeds above the preset limiter. If you remove the limiter and the
driveshaft fails at high-speed, it might flip the truck and kill you. The
factory only balances them to the speed that the truck is limited to. A
driveline shop can balance them to higher speeds, or build you a new one
that is balanced to those speeds.

FWIW, the sensor that the limiter uses is the same one that controls the
speedo. If you change tire sizes (or gear ratio) on a '97 or '98, you can
remove the sensor and there will be a little gear. You change the gear to
compensate for the changes. On the '99, you change a conversion constant in
the computer to readjust the speedo (this is similar to the '92 to '96
trucks).

Hope this helps!
Rob

> THIS IS THE INFORMATION I ASKED FOR 3 MONTHS AGO ;-)
>
> tell me more.. is the sensor for the speed limiter (not the rev limiter)
> located on the driveshaft? Tom Wood of 4xShafts does my driveshafts for my
> competition Jeeps, but i never had to have a driveshaft made for my truck.
>
> does this affect anything else with the truck?
>
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> What you are encountering is a speed limiter, not a rev
>> limiter. These are 2
>> different things and both are present. You can get a chip
>> burned that will
>> remove either of them, or both of them. But I'd leave the rev
>> limiter alone.
>> If you want to remove the speed limiter (which is set around
>> 100mph on most
>> Ford Trucks), get the driveshaft balanced by a professional
>> shop. Be sure to
>> tell them your gearing and the maximum speed you want it balanced to.
>>
>> Rob
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hunter
Subject: FTE 97up - letter from Ford

Hi,
I just want to know if anyone received a letter from Ford lately about refinancing to a
newer truck with %.9 and they will take your old truck with NADA value book + %25 or
$4000 more.
At the first it said something about you are one of the lucky one in OHIO (yes I live
in Oh.) and this is a limited time offer which is only valid on April 29th. from 8 - 8.
Anyhow, I just want to know what my follow member thinks of this.



===
Hunter
ICQ #6194679
F150-97, XLT, Toreador (dark red), 4X4 with the off road package, CD, power everything except the seat, Flareside, Carbon headlight cover, Carbon grill cover, factory (bed liner, bug guard), 17" tire, 55 watt fog light, 100 watt backup light, Jeanseat custom seat cover, Tonnau cover and what they call factory nurf bar.




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:45:24 -0500
From: "David Moore"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - letter from Ford

It sounds like they found out that you added 6000$ to the truck in
aftermarket parts alone. Personally it sounds like a scam to me.

David

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Hunter
Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:30 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - letter from Ford


Hi,
I just want to know if anyone received a letter from Ford lately about
refinancing to a
newer truck with %.9 and they will take your old truck with NADA value book
+ %25 or
$4000 more.
At the first it said something about you are one of the lucky one in OHIO
(yes I live
in Oh.) and this is a limited time offer which is only valid on April 29th.
from 8 - 8.
Anyhow, I just want to know what my follow member thinks of this.



===
Hunter
ICQ #6194679
F150-97, XLT, Toreador (dark red), 4X4 with the off road package, CD, power
everything except the seat, Flareside, Carbon headlight cover, Carbon grill
cover, factory (bed liner, bug guard), 17" tire, 55 watt fog light, 100 watt
backup light, Jeanseat custom seat cover, Tonnau cover and what they call
factory nurf bar.




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:51:28 -0500
From: "David Moore"
Subject: FTE 97up - SuperChips for the 1999 F250 PSD - Anyone?

I am considering a SuperChip for my 1999 F250 PSD. My question is this:

- - Does anyone have one installed and working, if so, was there an
appreciable increase in performance? Do you have a manual or automatic?
- - What was the cost? Who did you purchase from? Did they install? Did
they install the "boost tube"?
- - Do you know of other brands? How do they compare?
- - If you didn't like it, did they take it back without question?

Thanks,

david moore

ford dmoore.com

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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:40:36 -0500
From: "Chris Patrick"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - letter from Ford

if its from ford corporate, its probably legitimate. corporations will
occasionally either test market programs in small areas, or try to get
market saturation for some statistical reason.

in 1989, Chevy offered a rediculous trade in deal to owners of 84.5-86
corvettes. they offered me NADA book average retail +(i think 25%.. i dont
remember the actual terms...) trade in on any chevy fullsize, corvette,
camaro, or truck. I traded in my 1985 corvette (complete rebuild, low
odometer miles, bought off insurance company. clean, but well used) on a
305 TPI IROC Z-28 convertable,loaded,(sticker $24,009). Paid less than $4000
difference.

the downside.. i had to factory order the car, ordered in april.. took
delivery in october...and i had to give up the Vette in april.

anyway, it was a REAL good deal..


i get lots of mail from dealers and finance companys trying to get me to
re-fi, or trade in claiming special deals, and they use big corporate logos
on the envelops, BUT they always include a disclaimer saying "offer not
sponsered by Ford Motor Credit, or GMAC.. offered through Freds Financing,
family dentistry and Bar-B-Que...."

or some such....

anyway, the whole point was that early corvettes were getting such crappy
press in the long term reliability area and fit and finish, that GM did not
want the headache.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of David Moore
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:45 PM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: RE: FTE 97up - letter from Ford
>
>
> It sounds like they found out that you added 6000$ to the truck in
> aftermarket parts alone. Personally it sounds like a scam to me.
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
> [mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Hunter
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 4:30 PM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 97up - letter from Ford
>
>
> Hi,
> I just want to know if anyone received a letter from Ford lately about
> refinancing to a
> newer truck with %.9 and they will take your old truck with
> NADA value book
> + %25 or
> $4000 more.
> At the first it said something about you are one of the lucky
> one in OHIO
> (yes I live
> in Oh.) and this is a limited time offer which is only valid
> on April 29th.
> from 8 - 8.
> Anyhow, I just want to know what my follow member thinks of this.
>
>
>
> ===
> Hunter
> ICQ #6194679
> F150-97, XLT, Toreador (dark red), 4X4 with the off road
> package, CD, power
> everything except the seat, Flareside, Carbon headlight
> cover, Carbon grill
> cover, factory (bed liner, bug guard), 17" tire, 55 watt fog
> light, 100 watt
> backup light, Jeanseat custom seat cover, Tonnau cover and
> what they call
> factory nurf bar.
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> >
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and
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>

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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:33:45 -0400
From: GEORGE CROLL
Subject: FTE 97up - letter from Ford -Reply

I would jump on this in a heartbeat even with a new truck only about 6 mo. old. Think about it, if I got 4K more than
blue book on my 99 SD I would easily break even on my loan. With the 0.9% financing I might save a ton on the
interest I still owe on the truck. My loan was for about 26,000. I owe 24,000 or so. My total payoff for the loan if
paid in installments at 8% interest was 33,000 or about 7,000 in interest. With a break even on the trade and 0.9
financing on a super duty I could save 5000 or more by using an offer like this. Let me know if this is for real and for
anyone. I might drive to Ohio to see my relatives for an offer like this.
George Croll
EPA-OAR-ARD
(202)564-0162
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:49:08 -0700
From: "Jose Pomposo Jr."
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - PIAA's installed, battery running good.

I also looked into the PIAA SuperWhite headlight bulbs and they told me that
they will not be introduced for apporoximately 2 months. I had to get some
dichroic's which I will be returning because I sometimes wonder if my
headlights are even on.
- -----Original Message-----
From: mattadams pcisys.com
To: f150list mindspring.com
Cc: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, April 19, 1999 6:02 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - PIAA's installed, battery running good.


>Just an update for everyone, I installed the PIAA lights this weekend.
>Installation was about the easiest electrical I had ever installed on my
>truck. Took about an hour per set (2 hours total), and most of that was
just
>figuring out where to mount the relays/remote receivers.The lights are
super-
>bright, its like driving during the day! Overall, I am much more impressed
>with the PIAA's then I was with my Hellas (as many of you may remember, my
>hella installation took until approximately 3 am, about 7-8 hours). I am
>waiting for my replacement headlight bulbs that were on backorder, but
>hopefully those will be coming in soon! Just to test it I left my truck
off,
>and turned on all my lights, stereo, etc. Everything ran fine, battery
didn't
>lose any power at all... I think Im good to put on some more lights (ha
ha).
>
>Matt
>
>---------------------------------------------
>This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/
>
>
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:46:59 -0500
From: "C. K. Hartline"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - letter from Ford

Sounds like a dealer come on to me...but then I've never recieved a notice
from anyone other than a dealer offering to give me big bucks for my trade
in...

C.K.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:32:50 -0400
From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Quick Question

At 08:53 AM 4/19/99 -0500, you wrote:

George:

Thanks much for the kind words and also the corrections. No, I'm not a
teacher, but I am a licenced Professional Engineer - Mechanical. It seems
that I spend a good deal of my time at work explaining technical details to
non-tech types, and over the 15 years of my professional career I suppose
I've developed some proficiency at it. Or something like that...

Best regards,
Steve O.
soffiler ici.net
North Scituate RI

'97 F-250 HD (old style) ... still wondering if maybe my truck belongs
on the '80-'96 list...


>Steve,
>
>Excellent post. One error, however. Dark colors have a higher emissivity
>than light colors, but may not have a higher emissivity than 'shiny'
>surfaces. In heat transfer, brown bodies are defined as surfaces for which
>the constant of absorptivity and emmissivity are numerically equal. This is
>true for most fairly rough surfaces, but is not true for shiny surfaces.
>Something painted flat silver will have a low absorptivity and a low
>emmissivity and will not radiate heat very well. On the other hand, a shiny
>silver surface such as chrome will have a low absorptivity but a high
>emmissivity and will thus shed a lot of heat by radiation.
>
>Given that, I still think that painting metal parts flat black will probably
>result in more radiation and is certainly cheaper than chrome plating. I
>also agree that convection probably plays the largest role in a moving
>vehicle. If things are slow at work today I may do a calculation just for
>kicks.
>
>Again, that was an excellent summary of heat transfer. Are you a teacher?
>
>George
>
>1974 Gran Torino Elite 351W
>1984 LTD Crown Victoria 302
>1999 SD CC V10
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler [mailto:soffiler ici.net]
>Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 6:58 PM
>To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
>Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Quick Question
>
>
>
>>>Second, anything that you would like to dissipate heat should be
>>>painted black... (snip)
>
>>This is literally true, but the difference between black (flat black being
>>best) and rusty brown is probably insignificant compared to light color
>>paint and especially shiny metal.... (snip)
>
>>How about the guys who chrome their diffs!
>
>Folks - quick lesson in heat transfer. There are three ways heat moves.
>(1) conduction: a warmer body in direct contact with a cooler body, and
>heat flows from warmer to cooler; (2) convection: a warm body transfers
>heat to the air immediately surrounding it by conduction, and the warmed
>air rises, allowing more cool air to come into contact and be warmed by
>convection, and so on... (2a) subset of #2 is forced convection: where the
>air is moved not by natural gravitational forces but rather by fans or
>anything else that causes airflow; (3) radiation: a warm body radiates
>energy into space, based on "emissivity" factor of the surface... dark
>colors have significantly higher emissivity than shiny colors.
>
>Now, about those guys that chrome their diff. covers: I'd guess that
>convection, and probably a form of forced convection based on airflow from
>driving down the road, will cool the diff sufficiently. Racing and serious
>offroad applications might benefit from a black diff cover, in the
>hairy-edge situations where they need all the help they can get. The
>amount of heat transfer from the differential due to radiation (the only
>form of heat transfer that is affected by color) for a normal road vehicle
>is fairly minimal.
>
>Hope this helps. Please don't crucify the newbie.
>
>Steve O.
>soffiler ici.net
>North Scituate RI
>
>'97 F-250 HD.... does my "old-style" truck fit into the 97-up group???
>
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>
>

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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:26:54 -0400
From: Karen Wall / Steve Offiler
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rev Limiter, true or false?

There has been plenty of interesting information on this subject so far. I
believe that there are separate rev limiters and speed limiters built into
the computer software. Personally, I wouldn't mess with the rev limiter
much - valve float can be a nasty consequence. Regarding the speed
limiter, I am fairly sure the reason for its existance is the speed rating
of the tires. "S" rated tires (99mph) are the norm on light trucks these
days.

Steve O.
soffiler ici.net
North Scituate RI

'97 F-250 HD (old style)

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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:44:32 -0700
From: "Jeff Schapker"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - SuperChips for the 1999 F250 PSD - Anyone?

I am considering either a Banks Stinger or a Superchip. Is the Banks Stinger
worth the money? The Superchip is about $450.00 and the Stinger is $1368.50.
What are the pros and cons of both?
Jeff


I am considering a SuperChip for my 1999 F250 PSD. My question is this:

- - Does anyone have one installed and working, if so, was there an
appreciable increase in performance? Do you have a manual or automatic?
- - What was the cost? Who did you purchase from? Did they install? Did
they install the "boost tube"?
- - Do you know of other brands? How do they compare?
- - If you didn't like it, did they take it back without question?

Thanks,

david moore

ford dmoore.com

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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:54:07 EDT
From: ATUMLAW aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - SuperChips for the 1999 F250 PSD - Anyone?

In a message dated 4/19/99 9:48:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jmschap evansville.net writes:


worth the money? >>

There is a pretty big section on the diesel trucks in the new (June) Truck
Trends magazine. A comparo between the Dodge and Ford diesel 1 ton trucks
and a section entitled hop-up ideas which mentions a Banks system.

VTY

Atilla Babacan
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Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:53:16 -0500
From: "Greg Gilmore"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - letter from Ford -Reply

There is usually a disclaimer that reads something like

trade based upon NADA L_O_A_N value plus 20% or $4000 whichever is greater
ect............. read the fine print!


- -----Original Message-----
From: GEORGE CROLL
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, April 19, 1999 5:49 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - letter from Ford -Reply


>I would jump on this in a heartbeat even with a new truck only about 6 mo.
old. Think about it, if I got 4K more than
>blue book on my 99 SD I would easily break even on my loan. With the 0.9%
financing I might save a ton on the
>interest I still owe on the truck. My loan was for about 26,000. I owe....


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