97up-list-digest Sunday, December 20 1998 Volume 01 : Number 315



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - Sport Package Confusion
FTE 97up - Re:F-350 DRW Brakes
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Bud Feuless / Oil Filtration
Re: FTE 97up - PSD Cold Weather Delete and Factory Hold
Re: FTE 97up - Sport Package Confusion
Re: FTE 97up - re: engine noise on F350 PSD
Re: FTE 97up - LD vs. SD
Re: FTE 97up - LD vs. SD
Re: FTE 97up - Sport Package Confusion
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Bud Feuless / Oil Filtration
Re: FTE 97up - FW: Sport Package Delay

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:24:10 -0600
From: John Walker
Subject: FTE 97up - Sport Package Confusion

Nathan, thanks for the reply. I was talking about an XLT 4x2 reg. cab. =
Tuesday my dealer called and said that the truck will not be built, with =
no explenation on why. I met with them Thursday and they still said =
that the truck would not be built. My choices were: no truck, order =
another one minus the Sport package, or select one on the lot. I told =
them that I could not wait another day without a vehicle but I =
absolutely did not one of the lot but I did want an F150. I agreed to =
order another truck only if Ford provided me with a loaner car free of =
charge until my vehicle came in. They declined my demands on Friday and =
I subsiquently demanded my deposit back. The dealership was absolutely =
determined not to give me my money back. Then all of the sudden they =
said that the truck WILL be built, but there is not a projected date =
yet. After much deliberation and high tension debate (much confusion on =
my part also), the dealership agreed to provide me a used car to drive =
(free of charge) until my truck arrives and deduct $1000 off of the =
truck. The sales manager also insisted that the truck will be built =
soon, but he said that if the truck does not arrive before the end of =
February, they will deduct an additional $4000 off of the truck. Now =
the big question is, will the truck be built? My dealership must be =
confident that it will be built. I don't know what to believe. =20

Any help on clarifying this is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for =
the help. I must say that my experience with Ford Motor Company and my =
dealership has been horrible and will have a lasting effect on future =
purchasing decisions. However, I commend you, Nathan, for honestly =
representing Ford and their products and helping customers that can't =
get answers where they are supposed to. Its ironic that my most =
informative and expedious help and information has come from a person I =
didn't buy the truck from! Keep up the good work!

Thanks again,

John Walker=20

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:40:28 -0500
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:F-350 DRW Brakes

I have F-350 DRW V-10 SC chassis, W/4W ABS it is permanently loaded to
10,500 lb. Got on a snowy road yesterday, the brakes were TERRIBLE!
The front wheels lock first, without hardly any braking on the rear
wheels. Sure the ABS pulses the brakes, but you still cannot use the
brakes at all on a curve. Is this the way they all are, or do I have a
defect? A Diesel would have 600 lb more on the front wheels, that would
help a lot, but shouldn't Ford have calibrated the gas engine brakes
differently? This is just plain dangerous! I am the person that
complained about the HARD pedal, until the dealer put in the (as
advertised as equipped) hydralic brake booster. Possibly this is more
of the same problem?
Lee Haefele
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:46:00 -0500
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Bud Feuless / Oil Filtration

Rod Loewen wrote:
>
> I've looked after heavy industrial engines for years. I've been to
> several manufacturers courses on maintenance. We run extended oil change
> intervals with bypass filters and viscosity modifiers. But you can not
> over emphasis the need for frequent oil analysis. Each manufacturer has
> told us that no matter how clean the oil, in extended, constant hard
> usage the molecular structure of the oil changes, forming long chains -
> increased viscosity - and will not flow to all areas of the bearings
> etc. as it should. Results have been expensive - for repairs but more so
> for downtime.
> Who tears down an engine to check it and then reassembles? We have
> engines running with over 40,000 hours on them. We check cylinder wear
> with a borescope, and take a sidecover off to drop a bearing cap or two
> on our regular scheduled maintenance. I can't imagine tearing down an
> engine with out knowing it is necessary.
> By the way, I run a 96 PSD, 4X4, 5spd. with pre/post lube, no bypass
> filter. Just regular changes at 5000 k. My wife has a 97 F150 (girly
> truck!) and we just acquired a 99 F250 5.4L/auto. My favorite is the
> diesel.
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Rod,

How much do the analysis' cost? Is this system worth the
extra expense for moderate use vehicles. Engines today can
last quite a long time without this system so what is the
justification for using it? No flame intended, just
wondering if it is worth my while.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:19:25 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - PSD Cold Weather Delete and Factory Hold

The only holds I came up with (there may be more but I haven't run into them
yet) are Cold weather PKG. delete on PSD. It is on hold until 4/1/99. I
wouldn't order one with this even if I were in a warm area because for $100
it would be awfully nice if you ever traveled north on a trip.

The other hold I found is the 96P Full function Idle control for the PSD.
The 961 idle control is available though (except on Lariat).

Automatics are not on hold. They are a controlled commodity, but the
majority of the trucks are built with auto's.

Nathan

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bud Feuless & Miki Magara
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, December 18, 1998 12:22 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - PSD Cold Weather Delete and Factory Hold


>Just got a call from my dealer this afternoon. He said he was checking the
>order on my F-250 SD w/PSD, placed on 12/1 and found that the status had
>changed from "Unscheduled Clean" (not scheduled to build, but a complete
and
>accepted order) to "Hold." He called the factory folks and they told him
>that all PSD's with the Cold Weather Delete option are being placed on hold
>and will not be taken off hold until 04/01/1999! I had him change the
order
>to delete the Cold Weather Delete option (so, I'll get the engine block
>heater and the exhaust valve and pay about $100 more) and it is now back to
>"Unscheduled Clean", at least for now...
>
>Just thought I'd share this, in case we all need to run out and change our
>orders...!
>
>Regards, Bud


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:28:36 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Sport Package Confusion

According to the computer that takes the orders, You can't get the truck
your promised. Ford says it is not a buildable order. The only thing that
I can think of is that they might order a regular truck and switch the
wheels, bumpers, mirrors, and grille with a supercab Sport. Unless
something really odd happened (which is possible) this is the only way I can
see it happening.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.

- -----Original Message-----
From: John Walker
To: 97-Up List (E-mail)
Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 8:35 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - Sport Package Confusion


Nathan, thanks for the reply. I was talking about an XLT 4x2 reg. cab.
Tuesday my dealer called and said that the truck will not be built, with no
explenation on why. I met with them Thursday and they still said that the
truck would not be built. My choices were: no truck, order another one
minus the Sport package, or select one on the lot. I told them that I could
not wait another day without a vehicle but I absolutely did not one of the
lot but I did want an F150. I agreed to order another truck only if Ford
provided me with a loaner car free of charge until my vehicle came in. They
declined my demands on Friday and I subsiquently demanded my deposit back.
The dealership was absolutely determined not to give me my money back. Then
all of the sudden they said that the truck WILL be built, but there is not a
projected date yet. After much deliberation and high tension debate (much
confusion on my part also), the dealership agreed to provide me a used car
to drive (free of charge) until my truck arrives and deduct $1000 off of the
truck. The sales manager also insisted that the truck will be built soon,
but he said that if the truck does not arrive before the end of February,
they will deduct an additional $4000 off of the truck. Now the big question
is, will the truck be built? My dealership must be confident that it will
be built. I don't know what to believe.

Any help on clarifying this is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for the
help. I must say that my experience with Ford Motor Company and my
dealership has been horrible and will have a lasting effect on future
purchasing decisions. However, I commend you, Nathan, for honestly
representing Ford and their products and helping customers that can't get
answers where they are supposed to. Its ironic that my most informative and
expedious help and information has come from a person I didn't buy the truck
from! Keep up the good work!

Thanks again,

John Walker

=FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 12:30:03 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - re: engine noise on F350 PSD

What year is your truck, and what transmission? Also what is the build
date?
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Edward Nichols
To: 97up-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 6:57 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - re: engine noise on F350 PSD


>I was wondering if anyone was experiencing a loud binding noise which I
>thought was the clutch fan. I have removed the fan and the noise is
>still
>there. It sounds like a bad power steering pump but there is no problem
>with
>the steering or fluid level. Could it possibly be air intake noise?
>The dealer
>says it never does it when they have it. I have had trouble locating an
>air
>filter and still have the original one after 15,000 miles. One of the
>dealers parts
>dept. told me that there is a different listing for trucks made after
>12\8\98,
>maybe the intake is too small. Any help would be appreciated
>
>John N.
>
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 13:41:09 EST
From: BigFords1 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - LD vs. SD

I read that article and I really liked it. I would choose the Super Duty just
because I love them! You should also read the comparison in the February 1999
issue of Truck Trend. It compares:

Ford F-150 5.4 ext. cab
vs.
D*dge 1500 5.9 ext. cab
vs.
Ch*vy1500 5.3 ext. cab

The Ford didn't have the odd-road package, which was really a hindrance. The
Ch*vy had the Z71 suspension package, so it had an edge there. But, the F-150
won the quarter mile. And if you do get to take a look at February's issue of
Truck Trend check out the lifted Super Duty on page 9. It is my dream truck!


David
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:16:58 EST
From: RAMWORKER aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - LD vs. SD

Hi David,

The last time I looked, the Ch*vy Z71 package only consisted of Bilstein
shocks and a skidplate or two. How those items could be much of an edge in
off-road performance is beyond me.
However, regarding the quarter mile race, I'm not too surprised. After 10,000
miles on the companies' '98 F150 XL 4.6L automatic 3.55 rear end, I have to
say that I and others that drive this and our '97 2500 5.7L Vortec 3.73 rear
end are quite impressed, particularly considering the 69 ci smaller engine.
Most drivers feel the F150 will take the Ch*vy off the line, and at highway
speeds, our opinions become somewhat split. That means they are very close at
highway speeds and only a direct race (very unlikely) will decide this.

Best Regards,
Robert

In a message dated 12/19/98 10:44:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,
BigFords1 aol.com writes:

> The Ford didn't have the odd-road package, which was really a hindrance.
The
> Ch*vy had the Z71 suspension package, so it had an edge there. But, the F-
> 150
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:21:45 -0500
From: Scot Evanson
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Sport Package Confusion

The dealer gives you a loaner, free of charge. There is room to deduct
a grand off of an XLT 4X2 reg. cab. And more room to deduct another
4K? And you're angry?

I would be suspicious on the change of heart concerning build/ not
build. Sound like he wanted to have you help him reduce his
floorplanning costs.

SAE

John Walker wrote:
>
> Nathan, thanks for the reply. I was talking about an XLT 4x2 reg. cab. Tuesday my dealer called and said that the truck will not be built, with no explenation on why. I met with them Thursday and they still said that the truck would not be built. My choices were: no truck, order another one minus the Sport package, or select one on the lot. I told them that I could not wait another day without a vehicle but I absolutely did not one of the lot but I did want an F150. I agreed to order another truck only if Ford provided me with a loaner car free of charge until my vehicle came in. They declined my demands on Friday and I subsiquently demanded my deposit back. The dealership was absolutely determined not to give me my money back. Then all of the sudden they said that the truck WILL be built, but there is not a projected date yet. After much deliberation and high tension debate (much confusion on my part also), the dealership agreed to provide me a used car to drive (free of
> charge) until my truck arrives and deduct $1000 off of the truck. The sales manager also insisted that the truck will be built soon, but he said that if the truck does not arrive before the end of February, they will deduct an additional $4000 off of the truck. Now the big question is, will the truck be built? My dealership must be confident that it will be built. I don't know what to believe.
>
> Any help on clarifying this is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for the help. I must say that my experience with Ford Motor Company and my dealership has been horrible and will have a lasting effect on future purchasing decisions. However, I commend you, Nathan, for honestly representing Ford and their products and helping customers that can't get answers where they are supposed to. Its ironic that my most informative and expedious help and information has come from a person I didn't buy the truck from! Keep up the good work!
>
> Thanks again,
>
> John Walker
>
> =FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:33:19 -0500
From: Scot Evanson
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Bud Feuless / Oil Filtration

That guy must have had an inside interest in the TP canister setup or a
paper mill. You took the words right off of my screen!
Spectrochromatic oil analysis is not cheap!

SAE

Jean Marc Chartier wrote:
>
> Rod Loewen wrote:
> >
> > I've looked after heavy industrial engines for years. I've been to
> > several manufacturers courses on maintenance. We run extended oil change
> > intervals with bypass filters and viscosity modifiers. But you can not
> > over emphasis the need for frequent oil analysis. Each manufacturer has
> > told us that no matter how clean the oil, in extended, constant hard
> > usage the molecular structure of the oil changes, forming long chains -
> > increased viscosity - and will not flow to all areas of the bearings
> > etc. as it should. Results have been expensive - for repairs but more so
> > for downtime.
> > Who tears down an engine to check it and then reassembles? We have
> > engines running with over 40,000 hours on them. We check cylinder wear
> > with a borescope, and take a sidecover off to drop a bearing cap or two
> > on our regular scheduled maintenance. I can't imagine tearing down an
> > engine with out knowing it is necessary.
> > By the way, I run a 96 PSD, 4X4, 5spd. with pre/post lube, no bypass
> > filter. Just regular changes at 5000 k. My wife has a 97 F150 (girly
> > truck!) and we just acquired a 99 F250 5.4L/auto. My favorite is the
> > diesel.
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
> Rod,
>
> How much do the analysis' cost? Is this system worth the
> extra expense for moderate use vehicles. Engines today can
> last quite a long time without this system so what is the
> justification for using it? No flame intended, just
> wondering if it is worth my while.
>
> Regards
>
> Jean Marc Chartier
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 22:54:23 +0000
From: mlhtfh ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - FW: Sport Package Delay

John,
I am sorry to hear that you have problem with your F150 with the
sport package. I am not sure if this regional dependent issue. As
far as I can remember, the sport package was not avialable until Nov
2(originally). Then it got pushed back until Nov 16 or so. I placed
my order on the Oct 22, and It came two days ago. Mine have the same
configuration as your as for the main part( Black SC XLT, 4X2, 4.2L
V8, 3.55 with LS). It took mine almost 8 weeks, and mine was built in
Northfolk, VA. My dealer is located in PA, about 10-20 mins away from
King of Prussia area. When I placed the order, I was told that it
was given a very high priority rating of 15 for building/delivery. 99
being the lowest rating. Since I do not know what other option you
have, I wonder if the other option you have or depend on where you are
might be the problem. As far as I know Ford is building them. They
will be close between Christmas and New year, but they will ship them
during that period. My dealer also told me that the sport package is
pretty hot option at the moment. I got all the above information from
my dealer. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I hope you do
get yours soon. The sport package is really make the truck look very
sharp! BTW since Ford just change the rear drum to disc brake on all
the new F150 with ABS at the begining of Dec, the plan was down for
couple of days. With the deal you have set up with your dealer right
now, it might worth the wait a touch longer. I am also wondering if
you can get the agreement in writing. I think you might have a better....


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