97up-list-digest Monday, December 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 301



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
FTE 97up - Re: - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?
FTE 97up - 4.2V6 vs. 4.6V8
Re: FTE 97up - 4.2V6 vs. 4.6V8
Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
RE: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
Re: FTE 97up - 4.2V6 vs. 4.6V8
FTE 97up - Dealer Damage
Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
Re: FTE 97up - Dealer Damage
Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
FTE 97up - Re: 97up-list-digest - Gauge readings should be?

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 03:18:46 PST
From: "Frank Spor"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

My Experience.....Similar, but not the same....
I decided that I was gonna be a good boy, and Grease My 96 4X4 front
wheel bearings, I looked in the owners manual, trotted down to the local
DEALER to get the correct spec grease, and was told by the parts
guy.....Oh we don't carry that.....this is what the mechanics here
use......When I asked to see the service letter that said this was
OK...everyone started acting funny

You decide.

I stopped taking my vehicles to dealers for service.....Back when I
discovered they made more money if they did not change the filters.....I
caught them....But it was too late for my engine.

Frank

>From owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com Sat Dec 5 21:52:57 1998
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>Message-ID:
>From: "Ronald Palmer"
>To:
>Subject: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
>Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:41:58 -0600
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>
>Hi Folks
>
>I am just wondering what experiences you have all had when having your
>trucks in for service. I brought my truck in for an oil change and
tire
>rotation at 5,000 miles. The dealer give a free oil change and tire
rotation
>at 5,000 miles and 10,000 miles, which is the only reason I had it
there to
>begin with. When I got my truck back, the interior was soiled with
engine
>oil on the carpet, and there was grease all over the door panel. But
thats
>not the worst part, when I looked at my drivers door on the outside,
there
>is this massive scratch just under the door panel. This happened when
the
>guy opened the door while it was in the lift (on the ground). Is it
just me,
>or is it my imagination, but after these jokers get your money, they
could
>give a s**t les about your truck. I went back and complaned to the
service
>writer, and I have an appointment on Tuesday to have the scrath
repaired.
>All this, just for an oil change and tire rotation. Are all of you
>experiencing this same type problem, or do I just have a bum dealer.
>
>Ron
>
>(Don't know if im gonna bring it for the 10,000 mile oil change)
>
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>


______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 06:47:14 -0500
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?

I had a 92 Plymouth Voyager, W/3.3L. Prior to the end of the 70k
warranty it developed piston slap/wrist pin noise at startup. Dealer
says this is not covered by power train warr, says computer needs new
codes but that mine has fixed codes. Tells me to buy new computer at my
expense. We come to agreement that this will only fix the noise & have
no effect on engine life. I drive it 1 more year, it makes more new
noises, I buy a Windstar. Possibly the history of these engines would
be the same as the 5.4s with the noise problem. Anyone know if Chrysler
3.3s blow up, or just make noises & run fine past 200k?
Lee Haefele
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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 07:35:51 -0500
From: Chuck Pollak
Subject: FTE 97up - 4.2V6 vs. 4.6V8

I need some input. I ordered a F-150 4x4 with the V-6 engine. The 4.6v8
option will cost me an additional $1063. (425 discount +638 v-8
option.). I don't really plan on any hd. towing or plowing with this
truck. Will I find that the v-6 is really under powered and hate my new
truck or should I bite the bullet and go for the v-8? I did go with the
3:55 LS rear.
Thanks

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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 05:21:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Neal Moon
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 4.2V6 vs. 4.6V8

i learned a long tiime ago never go and purchase a vehicle with the
base engine. you will be very unhappy with the small motor



- ---Chuck Pollak wrote:
>
> I need some input. I ordered a F-150 4x4 with the V-6 engine. The
4.6v8
> option will cost me an additional $1063. (425 discount +638 v-8
> option.). I don't really plan on any hd. towing or plowing with this
> truck. Will I find that the v-6 is really under powered and hate my
new
> truck or should I bite the bullet and go for the v-8? I did go with
the
> 3:55 LS rear.
> Thanks
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info
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>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 09:23:14 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

>Hi Folks
>
>I am just wondering what experiences you have all had when having your
>trucks in for service.


Ron,

I think you've got a bad dealer. I've never had problems with
Ford dealers, though I think that this is Ford's weak link in
the chain. Not that most of the dealers are bad, quite the
contrary, but Ford doesn't seem to care and does the least
possible whenever a rotten dealer causes problems.

We just bought another Ford (1998 Escort) 2 months ago and it
was the most pleasant auto experience we've had. Sticker was
about 14k, we walked out with $10,300 and .9 interest. We
were there for less than 2 hours (most of it was waiting in
line at financing) and there was zero dickering about the
price.

If you think there aren't good dealers, I think Nathan on this
list proves that there are. He's been a tremendous asset to
this group without ever trying to shove a sale down someone's
throat. Also, for the record, I bought my latest Ford at
Boomershine Ford in Atlanta.

- -Ken Payne

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 08:11:06 -0700
From: Jay Murphy
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

I've had very good service from my dealer (Sanderson Ford - Phoenix) for the
routine maintenance on my 97 F150 (20,000 miles). They've always returned my
truck as clean or cleaner than when I brought it to them.
We'll see what they're made of when we finish resolving the second piston
slap problem in my second 5.4L engine.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Palmer [mailto:rrpalmer eatel.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 1998 10:42 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks


Hi Folks

I am just wondering what experiences you have all had when having your
trucks in for service. I brought my truck in for an oil change and tire
rotation at 5,000 miles. The dealer give a free oil change and tire rotation
at 5,000 miles and 10,000 miles, which is the only reason I had it there to
begin with. When I got my truck back, the interior was soiled with engine
oil on the carpet, and there was grease all over the door panel. But thats
not the worst part, when I looked at my drivers door on the outside, there
is this massive scratch just under the door panel. This happened when the
guy opened the door while it was in the lift (on the ground). Is it just me,
or is it my imagination, but after these jokers get your money, they could
give a s**t les about your truck. I went back and complaned to the service
writer, and I have an appointment on Tuesday to have the scrath repaired.
All this, just for an oil change and tire rotation. Are all of you
experiencing this same type problem, or do I just have a bum dealer.

Ron

(Don't know if im gonna bring it for the 10,000 mile oil change)

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 08:08:13 -0800
From: "Michael D. Sheridan"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

Ronald Palmer wrote:
>
> Hi Folks
>
> I am just wondering what experiences you have all had when having your
> trucks in for service. I brought my truck in for an oil change and tire
> rotation at 5,000 miles. The dealer give a free oil change and tire rotation
> at 5,000 miles and 10,000 miles, which is the only reason I had it there to
> begin with. When I got my truck back, the interior was soiled with engine
> oil on the carpet, and there was grease all over the door panel. But thats
> not the worst part, when I looked at my drivers door on the outside, there
> is this massive scratch just under the door panel. This happened when the
> guy opened the door while it was in the lift (on the ground). Is it just me,
> or is it my imagination, but after these jokers get your money, they could
> give a s**t les about your truck. I went back and complaned to the service
> writer, and I have an appointment on Tuesday to have the scrath repaired.
> All this, just for an oil change and tire rotation. Are all of you
> experiencing this same type problem, or do I just have a bum dealer.
>
> Ron
>
> (Don't know if im gonna bring it for the 10,000 mile oil change)

Hi Ron:

I would not trust any of them as far as I could throw them regarding
my experience with the 99 Mazda B2500 I just bought.

Where ever I have my truck serviced I'll have someone there to
watch them every minute.

Michael
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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 09:27:41 -0800
From: Danny Gaudenti
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 4.2V6 vs. 4.6V8

>I need some input. I ordered a F-150 4x4 with the V-6 engine. The 4.6v8
>option will cost me an additional $1063. (425 discount +638 v-8
>option.). I don't really plan on any hd. towing or plowing with this
>truck. Will I find that the v-6 is really under powered and hate my new
>truck or should I bite the bullet and go for the v-8? I did go with the
>3:55 LS rear.
>Thanks

I've got the V6 in a Std, 4x2, 5-sp, RC, SB and do no towing and ocassional
light hauling. It's surprisingly quick, and I've got the 3.08 rear end! I
would guess the V6 would not be enough with an auto transmission, XLT with
all the options, SC, LB, four passengers, etc. Hard to say where the
break-point is, though. Have you test-driven both?

I went with the V6 because it's in a small, light truck. And it's not only
a cheaper initial purchase, but insurance and registration will also be
lower. But, if you push the V6 beyond what it's designed for, you'll get
terrible gas mileage and probably not help engine life.

Sorry, I probably confused you more than helped.

Danny
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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 13:30:48 -0500
From: paul naas
Subject: FTE 97up - Dealer Damage

Ron,
Believe me it's not just your dealer. Here in Virginia Beach I've had
the "Best" local dealer park my 92 E-150 on the street next to his
dealership right in front of a NO PARKING sign for six days straight
while it awaiting peeling paint repair. I jumped all over the customer
relations manager and he assured he would take care of it. I checked it
every day and it NEVER moved. (of course not, its registered in my
name). Even when I took the van in for its six month wax and clean up I
finially decided to stay "IN" the van for as much as 4 hours while the
work was being done and even then I would have a belt buckle grind
against the paint or something banged into the truck. Then I bought my
F-150 from another local dealer, told them that I am VERY PICKY about
the care of my truck, and I still "gain" a scratch or a grease spot with
each (reluctant) visit. I now make the service writer inspect my truck,
inside and out and record any defects prior to walking away from my
vehicle. I guess they get used to it because anytime that I show up my
service writer now automatically calls me by name and says "I know how
particular you are about your truck" and automatically inspects the
vehicle(the same holds true for my 24 year old son with his F-150).
When I go to my Toyota dealer for my Corolla I don't have nearly the
problem. As you state, once they get your money they really don't
care....
Paul

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 10:06:01 -0500
From: Bill
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

Ken Payne wrote:

> >Hi Folks
> >
> >I am just wondering what experiences you have all had when having your
> >trucks in for service.
>
> Ron,
>
> I think you've got a bad dealer. I've never had problems with
> Ford dealers, though I think that this is Ford's weak link in
> the chain.

And from the other side the coin, there are customers out there that no
dealer can please, no matter how hard they try. Usually the dealer knows it
when they are dealing to purchase the unit and the service manager knows it
the first time they have a small problem. These are the same people that
take 15 items to a 10 item check out line, drive 10 mph over the limit every
place they go. I'm not trying to say its ok for the dealership to scratch
or damage someone's car or truck. But a little dirt or grease spot is
nothing to get upset about. Just my thoughts!

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 21:14:02 -0500
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealer Damage

I have had both good and bad experiences with dealers so
some good ones exist. I stopped going to the dealer where I
leased my truck because of the service writer who upset me.
He gave me a hard time about looking at my tarnished center
cap. He would not take the time to go out and look at it
but insisted I set up an appointment to have someone look at
it. After that I started taking my truck to where I leased
my Sable. The service writers were great but the mechanics
were incompetent. Luckily some of the service writers were
hired by the dealer where I leased the truck so I am going
back there. My point is go where you feel comfortable.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:45:17 EST
From: ROBBCWZ aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

As always, there's no such thing as a free oilchange!
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:09:29 EST
From: ROBBCWZ aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

In a message dated 12/6/98 03:33:25 PM Central Standard Time, kg8aw ismi.net
writes:


dealer can please, no matter how hard they try. Usually the dealer knows it
when they are dealing to purchase the unit and the service manager knows it
the first time they have a small problem. These are the same people that
take 15 items to a 10 item check out line, drive 10 mph over the limit every
place they go. I'm not trying to say its ok for the dealership to scratch
or damage someone's car or truck. But a little dirt or grease spot is
nothing to get upset about. Just my thoughts!
>>

Bill:

It so happens I know Mr. Palmer who did the original post and he doesn't fit
the "customer no one can please" profile. Because he tends to be extra
careful to keep his truck a whole lot cleaner than I could ever even attempt
to doesn't mean he should accept a grease spot as normal. If I got a nice
oily footprint or a door scratch from any service I would be a tad upset too -
telling me "that's nothing" wouldn't make me feel good either.

At least Ron's dealer seems to be making an good faith effort to repair the
damage they caused, but when you walk in with a +$22,000 investment and pass
it to them for service, you should have every right to expect the dealer to
give it one heck of a lot of TLC.

RobbC
(P.S. Bill, hope you don't work for a dealer anywhere in the South - hate to
think you might one day work on my truck!)
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Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 02:29:05 EST
From: KCochran1 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 97up-list-digest - Gauge readings should be?

In a message dated 12/6/98 6:32:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-97up-list-
digest ford-trucks.com writes:

> Your pyrometer readings will be dependent on where you place the probe. The
> primary reason for monitoring this is to keep the pistons from melting.
> Since
> the PowerStroke is computer controlled, I believe the computer monitors
this
> for you and makes the necessary adjustments so you shouldn't have to worry
> about it. Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken about the computer
> monitoring this function.

I don't know whether the computer actually monitors it or not, but I don't
think it will
supply enough fuel to cause too high an EGT. This is of course in stock form,
if you
add a "chip", that's a whole different story.

> Since you're a diesel newbie, I might recommend the Turbo Diesel Register to....


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