97up-list-digest Sunday, December 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 300



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - Guage Readings Should Be ??
FTE 97up - Re:Body rebate
FTE 97up - Re: F250 vs F350 (#299)
FTE 97up - Super Chip
Re: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?
Re: FTE 97up - Guage Readings Should Be ??
Re: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?
Re: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?
Re: FTE 97up - Re: F250 vs F350 (#299)
FTE 97up - brake light warning - got it fixed
FTE 97up - 99 f250 sd 2wd
Re: FTE 97up - 99 f250 sd 2wd
Re: FTE 97up - 99 f250 sd 2wd
FTE 97up - Triton "economy" and "power" modes
FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks
FTE 97up - ADMIN: New chat
Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 13:07:30 GMT
From: alannorthstar mindspring.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Guage Readings Should Be ??

On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 04:20:06 -0500, you wrote:

:OK,
: I'm getting a couple of gauges for my 99 PSD f/450: a pyrometer and
:an automatic tranny temp gauge.
: Help me out on how to interpret what I see.
: What's the good range for the pyrometer and what's getting too high.=20
:If it gets too high when I'm pulling a load up a hill, will it help to
:slow down or do I just need to find a place to stop?
: What's too high for the auto. tranny? What's the best way to bring
:that temp down?
:
: Thanks for your help for a newbie.
:
:Neil Stahl
:=3D=3D FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info =
http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html


What's a pyrometer? Something other than a water temperature
gauge? Cylinder head temp, perhaps?

Later,
Alan
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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:19:16 -0500
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:Body rebate

I have heard about a "body upfitter rebate" of $900 on chassis cabs, is
this true? Does it apply to 99SD? When did it start?
Lee Haefele
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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 10:16:02 -0500
From: Gary & Nancy Brinck
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: F250 vs F350 (#299)

Doug Gatchell (re your F250 vs F350 question)

I got my F250 SD SC PSD Auto LWB 3.73LS for the same purposes you are. I chose the
250 because the 350 offered no advantages for my planned use. I saw the extra tire
cost and extra width as disadvantages, even though I think the dually looks sharper.
There's no way to predict a difference in future resale value, but if big duallys are
in still in vogue as they are now,y ou might get $300-700 more when you are next
ready to swap. Of course, you can get the F350 in an SRW model, too, but the
difference from a 250 is almost meaningless then.

I'm getting about 19 mpg in my mostly highway driving and tow my 10,000# 5W at 11-13
mpg, depending on winds and speed. I suspect the extra pair of tires on the F350 DRW
would reduce that slightly.
Gary

> I'm considering buying either an F350 or F250 SD 4x4 LWB SRW Lariat Super
> Cab with 7.3L Turbo Diesel, towing and camper package. My goal is to tow a
> 5th wheel occasionally but I really want to have only one vehicle so I will
> be using my truck to commute mostly.

- --
Gary Brinck
in Florida's Ocala Nat'l Forest
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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:43:18 -0800
From: Dave Sturtze
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Chip

Has anyone installed or heard any first hand reports on
"Super Chips" new chip for the F250 V10? They claim 29 hp
and 36ft/lbs increase for $495 the down side being high
octane fuel and " a slight decrease in mpg" at 10.5mpg right
now on reg. unleaded I'm not sure I can afford the chip but
if the specs. aren't inflated I'm going to try it.
Thanks
Dave
99 F250 V10 SC LB 4x4 Lariat Rhino lining Flowmaster
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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:35:25 EST
From: RAMWORKER aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?

Hi List,

I've been on this list for several months now and have patiently waited for
an explanation of what the cause of this noise is and still haven't seen it.
Now it has been mentioned on usenet at alt.autos.dodge.trucks as occurring on
the 6.8 V10 as well as the 5.4. Curiosity has now got the better of me, so
what is it? Oversize machining of cylinder bores, undersize pistons, wrong
offset on pistons, or pistons installed backwards on their rods? That's all
the explanations I know of for piston slap. One guy mentioned that Ford had
admitted they had a problem, maybe that was just a dealer talking to an
unhappy customer?
I know that Pontiac had this problem in 1970, on the 455 only, all of these I
ever opened had overbored cylinders, about .004 clearance, it never seemed to
cause any problem except for noise.

Best Regards,
Robert


In a message dated 12/4/98 4:03:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, marklee2 home.com
writes:

> I have the problem. Engine however is working very well with
> 60,000Kms(36,000 miles).
>
> Jay Murphy wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of someone who has experienced a 5.4L engine failure due
> to
> > the piston slap problem that has been talked about in this newsgroup and
> in
> > threads at F150 Online?
> >
> > If you haven't experienced the problem first hand, it sounds like you
have
> a
> > diesel engine that is going to break apart on cold startup and lasts
until
> > the engine begins to warm up. You'll know it if you hear it, believe me.
> etc, etc,,
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:19:09 EST
From: RAMWORKER aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Guage Readings Should Be ??

Hi Neil,

Your pyrometer readings will be dependent on where you place the probe. The
primary reason for monitoring this is to keep the pistons from melting. Since
the PowerStroke is computer controlled, I believe the computer monitors this
for you and makes the necessary adjustments so you shouldn't have to worry
about it. Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken about the computer
monitoring this function.
If you place the probe in one of the exhaust manifolds, your reading can be
close to the melting point of Aluminum (1,300 degrees)?. I've also been told
by Mark Chapple, of TST Products, that you can add 10 degrees for every P.S.I.
of boost you're making, another 200 degrees at 20lbs. boost, a good reason to
monitor boost pressure as well.
I have the Banks gauge set on my truck (Cummins) mounted as Banks instructed,
with the probe 9" below the elbow, after the turbo, and Banks says maximum 900
degrees at this point without making any mention of boost pressure. This is a
difficult thing to measure, I mean the distance from the exhaust port to the
probe, for translating to your PS, but I would guess about 18" from the
exhaust port to get a similar reading for your truck. BTW, I would not
recommend the Banks gauges, I've already had two pyrometers go bad, I'll be
trying Isspro next.
The way that I get my exhaust temp down is mostly by downshifting, get the
R.P.M. and boost up, and the temp goes down, this hasn't failed me yet, but if
it does, I'll try reducing the power, get my foot off the go pedal!
Since you're a diesel newbie, I might recommend the Turbo Diesel Register to
you, it's not as good for Ford guys as it is heavily sponsored by Dodge and
Cummins, and biased toward Dodge, but it does have a great deal of good
general diesel content and information. Maybe someone will start a similar
publication for Fords.

Best Regards,
Robert

In a message dated 12/5/98 1:31:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
nstahl worldnet.att.net writes:

> What's the good range for the pyrometer and what's getting too high.
> If it gets too high when I'm pulling a load up a hill, will it help to
> slow down or do I just need to find a place to stop?
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:24:44 EST
From: KWkM3 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?


admitted they had a problem, maybe that was just a dealer talking to an
unhappy customer? >>

Ford does know of the problem and is supposedly working on a fix. I am not
holding my breath.

Harry
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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 15:24:31 -0500
From: Mark Lee
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?

Details of problem contained at www.f150 online. com Follow the "engines"
category and then read the 2 threads that deal with 5.4 l engine
problems.

RAMWORKER aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi List,
>
> I've been on this list for several months now and have patiently waited for
> an explanation of what the cause of this noise is and still haven't seen it.
> Now it has been mentioned on usenet at alt.autos.dodge.trucks as occurring on
> the 6.8 V10 as well as the 5.4. Curiosity has now got the better of me, so
> what is it? Oversize machining of cylinder bores, undersize pistons, wrong
> offset on pistons, or pistons installed backwards on their rods? That's all
> the explanations I know of for piston slap. One guy mentioned that Ford had
> admitted they had a problem, maybe that was just a dealer talking to an
> unhappy customer?
> I know that Pontiac had this problem in 1970, on the 455 only, all of these I
> ever opened had overbored cylinders, about .004 clearance, it never seemed to
> cause any problem except for noise.
>
> Best Regards,
> Robert
>
> In a message dated 12/4/98 4:03:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, marklee2 home.com
> writes:
>
> > I have the problem. Engine however is working very well with
> > 60,000Kms(36,000 miles).
> >
> > Jay Murphy wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of someone who has experienced a 5.4L engine failure due
> > to
> > > the piston slap problem that has been talked about in this newsgroup and
> > in
> > > threads at F150 Online?
> > >
> > > If you haven't experienced the problem first hand, it sounds like you
> have
> > a
> > > diesel engine that is going to break apart on cold startup and lasts
> until
> > > the engine begins to warm up. You'll know it if you hear it, believe me.
> > etc, etc,,
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:17:07 -0600 (CST)
From: dfloyd fnord.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: F250 vs F350 (#299)

[BURP]

I am fairly sure that F350's can come in DRW and SRW versions.

Maybe this should be a FAQ, the differences between the F250/350/450/550.




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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:06:48 -0700
From: "Matt Adams"
Subject: FTE 97up - brake light warning - got it fixed

ok, to those of you who were curious... I had had my red brake warning light
on for quite some time and I finally got it in today, it was what I though
it was origianlly. The rubber gromet was missing, so they replaced it... it
must've roled out of the car or something... either way its fixed now, and
my brake light is finally off :).

Matt Adams
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pcisys.net/~mattbert/babe/f150.html


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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 16:29:41 -0600
From: Joe Delvo
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 f250 sd 2wd

I am going to purchase a 99 F250sd 2wd Extended Cab in the near future.

Any reports on mileage with the V10 vs the 5.4 Triton ? Towing heavy
loads will be less than 10 % of the trucks use and not at highway
speeds.

I have been driving Ford trucks since 76 and the only complaint I have
had is the lack of power on my 95 F150 w 302. How does the 5.4 compare
to it ?



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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:29:55 -0600
From: "John & Kelly DiMarzio"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99 f250 sd 2wd

I have a 97 F250 extended cab pick up with a 5.4 l engine. I get an average
of 15 mpg between highway & city mileage. If I am towing my travel trailer
fully loaded with 5 passengers I get 6 mpg. We love our pickup- it
currently has 70K miles. The only problem we've had was 2 days ago. We
drove down the road and the speedometer didn't work & it wouldn't shift
right- it ended up being a speed relay- about $70 + diagnostic- that's the
only mechanical problem we've had & we love the truck!

- -Kelly

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joe Delvo
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 f250 sd 2wd


>I am going to purchase a 99 F250sd 2wd Extended Cab in the near future.
>
>Any reports on mileage with the V10 vs the 5.4 Triton ? Towing heavy
>loads will be less than 10 % of the trucks use and not at highway
>speeds.
>
>I have been driving Ford trucks since 76 and the only complaint I have
>had is the lack of power on my 95 F150 w 302. How does the 5.4 compare
>to it ?
>
>
>
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>

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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:30:33 -0600
From: "John & Kelly DiMarzio"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99 f250 sd 2wd

PS the 5.4 has pleanty of "giddy-up!"... much more than the 302
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joe Delvo
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 4:57 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 f250 sd 2wd


>I am going to purchase a 99 F250sd 2wd Extended Cab in the near future.
>
>Any reports on mileage with the V10 vs the 5.4 Triton ? Towing heavy
>loads will be less than 10 % of the trucks use and not at highway
>speeds.
>
>I have been driving Ford trucks since 76 and the only complaint I have
>had is the lack of power on my 95 F150 w 302. How does the 5.4 compare
>to it ?
>
>
>
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>

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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:35:18 -0600
From: "Bud Feuless & Miki Magara"
Subject: FTE 97up - Triton "economy" and "power" modes

All;

I've read quite a few posts from folks complaining of either poor
performance or rattling noises on 5.4L and even 6.8L Triton's around 2500 -
3000 rpm. I know that, since last year at least, Ford has been placing a
sensor and a butterfly valve on the intake, allowing the engine to switch
between "economy" (closed) and "power" (open) modes. This is reported to
work very well for cruising at lower highway speeds in OD in terms of
resulting in good fuel economy. The downside seems to always have been that
there is one heck of a flat spot in the torque curve right around
2500-3000rpm, depending on gearing, but generally in that area.

I know that, for people pulling a heavy load, like me, this can be a big
issue. Going uphill starting from anything less than 3200 rpm with a 5.4L
F-150 while loaded seems to always result in decreasing rpm and speed.
Starting hills at 3200 helps a lot (better, in other words, to start them in
3rd gear, rather than 4th with most automatic Ford transmissions). When a
truck is trying to move at 70+ mph, the wind shear creates a heavy load
regardless of whether there is anything in back or being towed and may, I'm
thinking, lead to similar results.

On the issue of funny rattling noises in the same rpm range, I've heard this
so much since the introduction of this valve, I have to wonder. If you get
within 100-200 rpm of the switchover from economy to power settings, I'll
bet dimes to donuts that the valve may end up fluttering, or at least the
sensor might end up rapidly engaging and disengaging.

By the way, if there is a real mechanic out there who knows more about this
arrangement, it would be interesting to hear specifics on where it is
located and how it might be removed, as, for some, this might produce a
desirable improvement in low-end power (at the cost of economy). It might
also alleviate some of the annoyances above or at least provide a method for
trouble-shooting whether this is the problem.

Just me 0.02...

Regards, Bud


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Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:41:58 -0600
From: "Ronald Palmer"
Subject: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks

Hi Folks

I am just wondering what experiences you have all had when having your
trucks in for service. I brought my truck in for an oil change and tire
rotation at 5,000 miles. The dealer give a free oil change and tire rotation
at 5,000 miles and 10,000 miles, which is the only reason I had it there to
begin with. When I got my truck back, the interior was soiled with engine
oil on the carpet, and there was grease all over the door panel. But thats
not the worst part, when I looked at my drivers door on the outside, there
is this massive scratch just under the door panel. This happened when the
guy opened the door while it was in the lift (on the ground). Is it just me,
or is it my imagination, but after these jokers get your money, they could
give a s**t les about your truck. I went back and complaned to the service
writer, and I have an appointment on Tuesday to have the scrath repaired.
All this, just for an oil change and tire rotation. Are all of you
experiencing this same type problem, or do I just have a bum dealer.

Ron

(Don't know if im gonna bring it for the 10,000 mile oil change)

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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 00:53:02 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: New chat

There's a new chat server up. This is experimental and
there are no promises that we'll keep this chat server.

This chat server has the following features:

1. Lightning fast (it came with C++ source code so I
tweaked it even more)

2. Security. Requires you to register a valid email
address in order to use it (hotmail, yahoo, juno etc.
are blocked). A password is emailed to you that
you can use indefinately. Sorry about the blocked
addresses, but this is to prevent someone from
getting an email address, harassing someone on chat
and disappearing without a trace.

This server has a logging feature that will soon
be enabled. This feature allows any user to tattle
on another user for obscene language, threats, etc.
This feature immediately logs the users email address,
nickname and ip, along with the offending text and
emails it to the admin (me).

3. Stable (so far). This server uses less than 300k of
RAM. We'll find out if its as good under load. Its
been running for 8 hours in my tests without any
problems.

4. High load capability with little server resource
usage. Right now I have it set for a maximum of 50
users at once. I can turn the limit up to 5000.

5. Ability to send private messages

6. Multiple rooms (to be added)

7. Does **not** require Java. Right now only the Java
client is working. The telnet version is being tested
for those who don't have a Java capable browser.

8. Much more (I'm still learning!)

Enjoy, and please report any problems to:
webmaster ford-trucks.com

Regards,
Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com


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Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 02:57:58 -0500
From: Mark Lee
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dealers Taking Care of Trucks....


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