97up-list-digest Saturday, December 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 299



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 97up - Dodge vs. Ford
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Engine noise
Re: FTE 97up - telling 4.6L from 5.4L
Re: FTE 97up - Dodge vs. Ford
FTE 97up - 4 wheel disc brakes on F-150
Re: FTE 97up - 4 wheel disc brakes on F-150
Re: FTE 97up - Speed wipers
FTE 97up - 99 F350 vs F250 SD 4x4 LWB SRW Lariat
FTE 97up - Re: speedometer cable gear
FTE 97up - Re: 19999 F-350 CC 4x4 PSD XLT Delivery
RE: FTE 97up - Dodge vs. Ford
RE: FTE 97up - telling 4.6L from 5.4L
FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?
Re: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?
Re: FTE 97up - 4 wheel disc brakes on F-150
FTE 97up - Re:V-10 power & axel ratio questions
Re: FTE 97up - Speed wipers
FTE 97up - Guage Readings Should Be ??

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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:27:37 -0600
From: "Strukel, Mike"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Dodge vs. Ford

Wow, You almost sound like me. I have a 96 Dodge, a 68 Bronco and my
wife drives an Explorer!

I am in the same boat as you are. I am switching to the SD F250 with a
V10. I considered another Dodge, but I have I believe that Dodge is about
due for a few changes. Engines, body style, etc. Plus I just had a major
transmission failure with the Dodge at 42,000 miles. Luckily the dealer
worked with me to convince Dodge to cover it! I also think that Ford is
considerably superior when it comes to interiors. The Ford interior is
nicer and more comfortable, hands down.
At this point, I am completely sold on the new SD.

Of course, since my wife works for Ford Credit, the "A plan" discount is
definately an influence!

Mike Strukel

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirk Werner [SMTP:kirkwe edmark.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 3:53 PM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 97up - Dodge vs. Ford
>
>
>
> I've been a Dodge owner for several years and currently drive a 96 2500.
> But wait- before you lay into me for that, know also that I have a 74
> Bronco
> in my garage, and my wife drives an Explorer.
>
> I'm wondering if there are any previous Dodge owners who have switched
> over
> to one of the new Super Duties? My Dodge hasn't been without it's share
> of
> problems, and while I like my truck, I'm not blind when it comes to
> loyalty.
> When I look for a new truck within the next year, I'm going to go drive
> an
> F250 SD. I'm also going to drive a new Dodge. Both will be the V10. I
> know how the numbers stack up against each other- the Dodge V10 is bigger.
> But considering I have the 360 in my Ram, either V-10 would be a
> significant
> jump in power. I've heard some good things about the Triton. Anyone have
> personal experiences with either v10?
>
> Thanks for any info.
>
> Kirk
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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:32:58 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Engine noise

Ford doesn't say the dates, but if you call into the hotline they say this
was a short term problem with auto's. As for yours, do you have a Limited
Slip differential?, If so it probably needs the Friction modifier added.

Nathan

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dan Prescher
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 9:22 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: Engine noise


>Nathan, I have a 99SD PSD six-speed manual, and I swear I get that same
>chatter, but it sounds like it comes from the rear differential, mostly
>in reverse or holding a steady 10-15 mph in second. It's been there
>since I took delivery, but it doesn't happen every time under like
>conditions. May or may not be the same thing you describe, but I took
>delivery the end of October -- could you let us know what that three
>week period was so I can tell if I'm in the fix zone?


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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:37:34 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - telling 4.6L from 5.4L

If it has plug wires it is a 4.6L or 4.2L, the 5.4L is the only engine in a
F-150 with coil on plug ignition.

Nathan


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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:54:56 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Dodge vs. Ford

One comment I've had from several people that have bought the Ford V-10 is
that they were disappointed when they first got the truck. They said that
after it breaks in the V-10 has much more power than it does new. Most talk
about this happening at 4-6K miles. Motor trend compared the Ford and Dodge
V-10's in Sep. 98 and they ran about even empty, but the Ford was much
quicker loaded. I've had several V-10 Dodge's traded in and they seem to be
much better for "seat of the pants" performance, but the Ford is usually
faster (comparing automatic trucks, which is Dodges weak link). But the
bigger advantages are in the truck itself more than just the engine.
Another thing to consider is if your not in a big hurry, there's a good
chance the Ford V-10 will get more power for 2000. The V-10 is basically
the same engine as the 5.4L. For '99 (in F-150/250 LD) the 5.4L got bigger
valves to increase power to 260 HP and 345 lb ft of torque (vs 235 and 335
3000 RPM on the Super Duty's and older F-150's). If they do the same thing
to the V-10 it should produce 304 HP and 423 LB/ft at an even lower RPM than
it currently does. There is no way to know for sure what will happen, but I
have a guess that something will.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.


Nathan

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Werner
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 4:02 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Dodge vs. Ford


>
>
>I've been a Dodge owner for several years and currently drive a 96 2500.
>But wait- before you lay into me for that, know also that I have a 74
Bronco
>in my garage, and my wife drives an Explorer.
>
>I'm wondering if there are any previous Dodge owners who have switched over
>to one of the new Super Duties? My Dodge hasn't been without it's share of
>problems, and while I like my truck, I'm not blind when it comes to
loyalty.
> When I look for a new truck within the next year, I'm going to go drive an
>F250 SD. I'm also going to drive a new Dodge. Both will be the V10. I
>know how the numbers stack up against each other- the Dodge V10 is bigger.
>But considering I have the 360 in my Ram, either V-10 would be a
significant
>jump in power. I've heard some good things about the Triton. Anyone have
>personal experiences with either v10?
>
>Thanks for any info.
>
>Kirk
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:57:41 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - 4 wheel disc brakes on F-150

Ford just announced this morning that starting on all trucks produced after
Dec. 2nd all F-150's with 4 wheel ABS (all Lariats and XLT's optional on
others) will have 4 wheel disc brakes. F-250 LD already had 4 wheel disc
with ABS and all Super Duty's have 4 wheel disc.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Union, IA 50258


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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:16:34 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 4 wheel disc brakes on F-150

At 07:57 AM 12/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Ford just announced this morning that starting on all trucks produced after
>Dec. 2nd all F-150's with 4 wheel ABS (all Lariats and XLT's optional on
>others) will have 4 wheel disc brakes. F-250 LD already had 4 wheel disc
>with ABS and all Super Duty's have 4 wheel disc.
>
>Nathan Bernard
>Union Auto, Inc.
>Union, IA 50258
>

Good to hear. I guess GM's commercials talking about 4
wheel disc brakes put a fire under Ford.

Ken Payne

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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:45:09 -0500
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Speed wipers

That's great info, I always wondered. However, I am still wondering what
happens between 11mph and 64mph.

Thanks,
Chad

Ken Peterson wrote:

> >How can you tell if one's truck is equipped with the speed sensitive
> >windshield wipers? I have a '98 F-150 XLT SuperCab.
>
> Easy. Here are the delay times for various speeds. The first number in each
> line is the switch position from OFF; the second is the (dead-time)
> interval for speeds of 0-10mph; and the last number is the interval for
> speeds exceeding 65mph. (From Ford manual.)
>
> 1 - 18 - 18 (not variable)
> 2 - 16 - 5
> 3 - 13 - 4
> 4 - 10 - 3
> 5 - 7 - 2
> 6 - 4 - 1
> 7 - 1 - 0
>
> So, with the switch three clicks from OFF, you should get a dead time of
> about 13 seconds when standing still, but 4 seconds on the freeway.
>
> The feature can be disables or enabled by your Ford dealer's service dept
> thru the GEM module interface. (The lengthy instructions in the owner's
> manual for some truck models don't work!)
>
> ---------------
> Ken Peterson, Portland, OR
> 1998 F-250LD Lariat, extended cab, short bed, 4X2, 5.4l, class-3 tow options
> LT245X16/steel rims, 4W disks + ABS, load-leveling rear suspension.
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:24:26 -0700
From: Douglas Gatchell
Subject: FTE 97up - 99 F350 vs F250 SD 4x4 LWB SRW Lariat

I'm considering buying either an F350 or F250 SD 4x4 LWB SRW Lariat Super
Cab with 7.3L Turbo Diesel, towing and camper package. My goal is to tow a
5th wheel occasionally but I really want to have only one vehicle so I will
be using my truck to commute mostly. The 350 and 250 have the same tow
rating and a typical 5th wheel tongue weight of 20% means the payload on
either should not be exceeded.

For a vehicle like this, the initial cost difference is not significant.
My question is: What are the advantages of one over the other?
1) Does the 350 have a rougher ride? If so is it noticeable?
2) Does the 350 have a better resale market?
4) All things being equal, would you expect gas mileage to be different?

Thanks,
Doug
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:40:31 PST
From: "Jordan Rautiola"
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: speedometer cable gear

I have my truck, it's awesome. '99 XLT 4x4 F150 SC LB with 5.4L
automatic & trailer tow. ARE cap, dark tor red, 285/75-16 Dunlop Radial
Rover A/Ts. They look great. Also tinted front side windows to 35%,
looks neat. Question: the tire pressure placard on the door says 32psi
on all tires (with the stock P255/70-16 Goodyears). When I dropped my
Dunlops from 45 to 32psi, I immediately noticed a much smoother ride,
but also the truck works harder to get up to and maintain speed, and
when I let off the gas at highway speeds, I can feel that it slows down
faster than when I had 45psi. I'm using the factory 7" rims, and I've
noticed that the rubber "nubs" still remain on the outer edges of the
tires, indicating a convex shape to the tread resulting from the
combination of 45psi and 7" rims. I can't believe that there would be
so much difference in rolling resistance in an "unloaded" truck between
32psi and 45psi. It seemed that the stock P-type Goodyear tires did not
slow me down when decelerating nearly as much at 32psi as the Dunlops do
at 32psi. It seems that the rolling resistance at 32psi on the big
Dunlops is considerable, compared to the rolling resistance when I run
45psi. Dunlop told me to run 32psi to get the best treadwear and
comfort. I haven't measured, but I would bet that I'm losing between 1
and 2 mpg at 32psi. This just doesn't seem fair! Help from any tire
engineers would be greatly appreciated.


>Hi there. Sorry for the delay on responding to you.
>
>A supercab weighs alot more than a reg cab, so there will be a fuel
>economy penalty. I'm not sure how much though. My personal opinion is
>the reg cab long box looks odd. But a supercab long box is huge and
won't
>fit in your garage (probably). I have a supercab flareside (short box)
>and I think that is the perfect proportions. But, that is just my
>opinion. The supercab is nice even if you don't drive people around
that
>much. It gives you a place to put thing like groceries/laundry without
>cramping your passenger.
>
>Go to a dealership and look at a bunch of them. They will have alot
>of reg cab long boxes because that is the typical work truck.
>You can also compare mileage ratings and see the difference between
>the two cabs.
>Hope that helps.
>Tim A.
>


______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 17:06:25 -0500
From: RICK KANE
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: 19999 F-350 CC 4x4 PSD XLT Delivery

I ordered the F-250 SD SC 4x4 PSD Lariat on 9-2-98 and just received a
date of 12-28-98. Maybe the problem lies with the F-350 or the crew
cab?
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:30:06 -0700
From: "Don Lewoniuk"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Dodge vs. Ford

How nuch of an influence is the 'A plan'?

> Of course, since my wife works for Ford Credit, the "A plan" discount is
> definately an influence!

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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:41:04 -0800
From: Tim Mattson
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - telling 4.6L from 5.4L

Nathan,

I guess this would explain why I haven't been able to trace the plug
wires. I am not familar with this arrangement. How exactly does this
work?

Tim

- -----Original Message-----
From: Union Auto [mailto:unionaut adiis.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:38 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - telling 4.6L from 5.4L



If it has plug wires it is a 4.6L or 4.2L, the 5.4L is the only engine
in a
F-150 with coil on plug ignition.

Nathan


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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:15:02 -0700
From: Jay Murphy
Subject: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?

Does anyone know of someone who has experienced a 5.4L engine failure due to
the piston slap problem that has been talked about in this newsgroup and in
threads at F150 Online?

If you haven't experienced the problem first hand, it sounds like you have a
diesel engine that is going to break apart on cold startup and lasts until
the engine begins to warm up. You'll know it if you hear it, believe me.

Ford is indicating that its an inherent "characteristic" in 80% of the 5.4L
engines, but I suspect and am concerned that if these engines are going to
fail, it will be when they accumulate 75,000+ miles and the warranties have
all run out.

I appreciate any information you all can provide.


Jay



"Failure is not falling down; failure is when you don't get back up."
Brian Basset

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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:37:32 -0500
From: Mark Lee
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 5.4L Piston Slap a Big Problem?

I have the problem. Engine however is working very well with
60,000Kms(36,000 miles).

Jay Murphy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of someone who has experienced a 5.4L engine failure due to
> the piston slap problem that has been talked about in this newsgroup and in
> threads at F150 Online?
>
> If you haven't experienced the problem first hand, it sounds like you have a
> diesel engine that is going to break apart on cold startup and lasts until
> the engine begins to warm up. You'll know it if you hear it, believe me. etc, etc,,
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:27:26 -0800
From: Rob Bryan
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 4 wheel disc brakes on F-150

Nathan,

Just for clarification, on the 250LD, do just the units with 4WABS get
4-wheel discs? I have seen a bunch of '97 & '98 F-250LD XLT and Lariat
SuperCabs with discs on the rear. But I saw at the SF auto show last week a
stripper '99 F-250LD 2WD regular cab that had drums on the rear. And in an
article in some magazine that compared the LD to the SD F-250, they also
claimed that the truck had rear drums, even though it was a Lariat that
should have had 4WABS. Since I will (hopefully) be ordering a F-250LD SC
4x4 soon, I'd like to know if I'll still be getting rear discs.

Thanks,
Rob

At 7:57 AM -0600 12/04/98, Union Auto wrote:
>Ford just announced this morning that starting on all trucks produced after
>Dec. 2nd all F-150's with 4 wheel ABS (all Lariats and XLT's optional on
>others) will have 4 wheel disc brakes. F-250 LD already had 4 wheel disc
>with ABS and all Super Duty's have 4 wheel disc.
>
>Nathan Bernard
>Union Auto, Inc.
>Union, IA 50258
>
>
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:59:24 -0500
From: Lee Haefele
Subject: FTE 97up - Re:V-10 power & axel ratio questions

He
intends to install utility body & regularly (daily) tow 10,000#
trailer. He ordered V-10, auto & 3.73 gears. I told him to get the
4.30 gears or order F-450...snip...
The way this question got started was that he drove my 99 SC V-10, 4.30
chassis, before the body was installed, and it was SLOW. It has
improved greatly with breakin & I have added weight to 10,500#, but
still, no great shakes, it hangs around in lower gears until I let off
the gas. Well..His son gets in a new SD V-10 3.73 pickup, he says "get
in", takes me up this 10% 2 mile hill at 70mph, he was not really
pushing it. This truck had only 200mi on it, went like a Maserati! Mine
would have gone possibly 45 up that hill, as an empty chassis, possibly
35 now loaded & broken in. He says he thinks they left one camshaft(or
similiar part) out of mine. He says that if they deliver him a truck
that runs like his son's, all he needs is 3.73 gears. Has anyone else
had a SLOW V-10? How fast should one accelerate at 10,500 lbs? Has
anything changed in 6 months of production?
Well it is at the dealer anyway, getting the correct Hydro-Boost brake
booster installed (It came W/vacuum), and they are going to check the
engine. I will keep Y'all posted..
Lee Haefele
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:05:32 -0800
From: Ken Peterson
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Speed wipers

>That's great info, I always wondered. However, I am still wondering what
>happens between 11mph and 64mph.

Tsk! Picky, picky! :-)

The interval ramps down from its value at 10mph to the one at 65.

Now whether the curve is logrithmic, parabolic, linear, or a simple emetic,
I don't know.

- ---------------
Ken Peterson, Portland, OR
1998 F-250LD Lariat, extended cab, short bed, 4X2, 5.4l, class-3 tow options
LT245X16/steel rims, 4W disks + ABS, load-leveling rear suspension.
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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 04:20:06 -0500
From: Neil Stahl
Subject: FTE 97up - Guage Readings Should Be ??

OK,
I'm getting a couple of gauges for my 99 PSD f/450: a pyrometer and....

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