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97up-list-digest Thursday, November 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 282 ======================================================================= Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe, send email to: majordomo with the words "unsubscribe 97up-list-digest" in the body of the message. ======================================================================= In this issue: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate RE: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate FTE 97up - Engine/ Exhaust Brake for '99 P.S. Diesel > Re: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate Re: FTE 97up - Where the Super Duty Lariats Are (good news and bad) FTE 97up - So Far Good Delivery News FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ford 99 Superduty Spare Tire Kit Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? RE: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? FTE 97up - Week #36 Commodity projections Re: FTE 97up - So Far Good Delivery News Re: FTE 97up - V10 Gas Milage Re: FTE 97up - Week #36 Commodity projections Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? Re: Re: FTE 97up - floor mats > Re: FTE 97up - Re: Fog light installation FTE 97up - Aftermarket cab steps for '99 F-150 supercab Re: FTE 97up - Re: Gifts Re: FTE 97up - Where the Super Duty Lariats Are (good news and bad) Re: FTE 97up - floor mats > ======================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:58:17 -0500 From: Michael Subject: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate Don, While I agree with you in your statement about not bashing Nathan as I even sent him a personal message thanking him for his contributions to this group, I disagree with you about the Spare Tire Option being plainly listed in the FoMoCo Superduty Truck Book. I went through the book cover to cover, again, and there is no listing in the Features and Options pages for a Spare Tire or Mount. In fact, I still have my original book that I sat down with and ordered from. There were many, many superfluous features listed like extra lights, tow hooks, moldings, and etc, but NO LISTING for a spare tire or Carrier for Same. As another matter of fact, there are several pictures showing the F250 and F350 Superduty Trucks with spare tires in the FoMoCo Book. As a consumer and customer, I try to be very informed about my purchases so why would I not order a Spare Tire and Carrier for traveling when I order a $35,000.00 loaded Truck ? Makes no sense except that it is not a known fact among consumers or advertised as an option by FoMoCo. Forget online and such as most people order from the FoMoCo book with their dealers............. I, along with many other consumers, am upset about this situation and would expect that a fine company like Ford Motor Corp would address it properly. I'm open to any suggestions about a remedy to this situation and will gladly contact FoMoCo if someone can give me a name and number to call or write. Michael 99 Superduty SuperCab 4X4 Diesel Lariat > I propose a new rule for this board: Anyone who disrespects Nathan has to > drink 14 quarts of used PSD crankcase oil before they are allowed to post > again. I have never seen Mr. Bernard be anything but civil, helpful, and > respectful to the other members of this board and I think he deserves the > same (or more). His gratuitous and informative posts are an important asset > to all of us and I doubt that any of us want to lose that just because > somebody mouthed off once too often. > The facts that the bumper and spare are options are clearly spelled out in > the F-Series propaganda with the other options, to the point where they > specifically mention that the Front bumper is standard! This is also > spelled out quite well in every price guide on or off-line that I have seen, > including , Edmonds.com and ConsumerGuide. I don't fault > anyone for making this gaff..., it took me a bit to figure out the rear > bumper bit. But if I'd placed my order without it, it would have been my > own fault, not the dealers. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:52:02 -0500 From: "Suarez, William" Subject: RE: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate Michael, If you go to the Ford website and look at the spec sheets for the super duties (Acrobat PDF format) you will see the spare tire and carrier listed as an option. Start at: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordvehicles.com/superduty/specs.html Select the "Features and Options" link (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordvehicles.com/superduty/features.pdf) and look in the first column, Exterior Features, Wheels and you will see that last line item as "spare tire and wheel". Regards, Bill Suarez - -----Original Message----- From: Michael [mailto:dixieboy Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 7:58 AM To: 97up-list Subject: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate Don, While I agree with you in your statement about not bashing Nathan as I even sent him a personal message thanking him for his contributions to this group, I disagree with you about the Spare Tire Option being plainly listed in the FoMoCo Superduty Truck Book. I went through the book cover to cover, again, and there is no listing in the Features and Options pages for a Spare Tire or Mount. In fact, I still have my original book that I sat down with and ordered from. There were many, many superfluous features listed like extra lights, tow hooks, moldings, and etc, but NO LISTING for a spare tire or Carrier for Same. As another matter of fact, there are several pictures showing the F250 and F350 Superduty Trucks with spare tires in the FoMoCo Book. As a consumer and customer, I try to be very informed about my purchases so why would I not order a Spare Tire and Carrier for traveling when I order a $35,000.00 loaded Truck ? Makes no sense except that it is not a known fact among consumers or advertised as an option by FoMoCo. Forget online and such as most people order from the FoMoCo book with their dealers............. I, along with many other consumers, am upset about this situation and would expect that a fine company like Ford Motor Corp would address it properly. I'm open to any suggestions about a remedy to this situation and will gladly contact FoMoCo if someone can give me a name and number to call or write. Michael 99 Superduty SuperCab 4X4 Diesel Lariat > I propose a new rule for this board: Anyone who disrespects Nathan has to > drink 14 quarts of used PSD crankcase oil before they are allowed to post > again. I have never seen Mr. Bernard be anything but civil, helpful, and > respectful to the other members of this board and I think he deserves the > same (or more). His gratuitous and informative posts are an important asset > to all of us and I doubt that any of us want to lose that just because > somebody mouthed off once too often. > The facts that the bumper and spare are options are clearly spelled out in > the F-Series propaganda with the other options, to the point where they > specifically mention that the Front bumper is standard! This is also > spelled out quite well in every price guide on or off-line that I have seen, > including , Edmonds.com and ConsumerGuide. I don't fault > anyone for making this gaff..., it took me a bit to figure out the rear > bumper bit. But if I'd placed my order without it, it would have been my > own fault, not the dealers. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:34:17 -0500 From: "Neil Stahl" Subject: FTE 97up - Engine/ Exhaust Brake for '99 P.S. Diesel > I have a '99 f/450 PSD, auto. tranny (nice truck!) and will be pulling a large 5'th wheel up and down mountains. I understand an exhaust brake is a good idea, and have materials from BD and U.S. Gear (PacBrake didn't have theirs ready yet when I called them). Their approaches are different and I have no expertise to tell which might be better. I'd appreciate comments from anyone who has used either exhaust brake > (especially on the 99 PSD) or who has enough expertise to compare the two systems. Thanks for your help. Neil Stahl == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:55:08 -0600 From: "Charles Abraham" Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate But apparently for many this has not been enough. One line in a table listed as a option, has failed to properly convey to buyers that a spare tire won't be coming with your new truck unless you take this option. What's being debated here is not that is doesn't appear in the Ford spec sheet - but how it appears, it's just not working as intended for all customers. Charles. Suarez, William wrote: > Michael, > > If you go to the Ford website and look at the spec sheets for the super > duties (Acrobat PDF format) you will see the spare tire and carrier listed > as an option. > > Start at: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordvehicles.com/superduty/specs.html > > Select the "Features and Options" link > (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordvehicles.com/superduty/features.pdf) and look in the first > column, Exterior Features, Wheels and you will see that last line item as > "spare tire and wheel". > > Regards, > > Bill Suarez > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael [mailto:dixieboy > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 7:58 AM > To: 97up-list > Subject: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate > > Don, > > While I agree with you in your statement about not bashing Nathan as I > even sent him a personal message thanking him for his contributions to this > group, I disagree with you about the Spare Tire Option being plainly listed > in the FoMoCo Superduty Truck Book. > > I went through the book cover to cover, again, and there is no listing > in the Features and Options pages for a Spare Tire or Mount. In fact, I > still have my original book that I sat down with and ordered from. There > were many, many superfluous features listed like extra lights, tow hooks, > moldings, and etc, but NO LISTING for a spare tire or Carrier for Same. > > As another matter of fact, there are several pictures showing the F250 > and F350 Superduty Trucks with spare tires in the FoMoCo Book. As a > consumer and customer, I try to be very informed about my purchases so why > would I not order a Spare Tire and Carrier for traveling when I order a > $35,000.00 loaded Truck ? Makes no sense except that it is not a known > fact among consumers or advertised as an option by FoMoCo. > > Forget online and such as most people order from the FoMoCo book with > their dealers............. > > I, along with many other consumers, am upset about this situation and > would expect that a fine company like Ford Motor Corp would address it > properly. > > I'm open to any suggestions about a remedy to this situation and will > gladly contact FoMoCo if someone can give me a name and number to call or > write. > > Michael > 99 Superduty SuperCab 4X4 Diesel Lariat > > > > > I propose a new rule for this board: Anyone who disrespects Nathan has to > > drink 14 quarts of used PSD crankcase oil before they are allowed to post > > again. I have never seen Mr. Bernard be anything but civil, helpful, and > > respectful to the other members of this board and I think he deserves the > > same (or more). His gratuitous and informative posts are an important > asset > > to all of us and I doubt that any of us want to lose that just because > > somebody mouthed off once too often. > > > The facts that the bumper and spare are options are clearly spelled out in > > > the F-Series propaganda with the other options, to the point where they > > specifically mention that the Front bumper is standard! This is also > > spelled out quite well in every price guide on or off-line that I have > seen, > > including , Edmonds.com and ConsumerGuide. I don't fault > > anyone for making this gaff..., it took me a bit to figure out the rear > > bumper bit. But if I'd placed my order without it, it would have been my > > own fault, not the dealers. > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:46:46 -0600 From: "Union Auto" Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Where the Super Duty Lariats Are (good news and bad) These trucks come from an aftermarket converter. The converters get a certain number of trucks to modify and then sell to dealers. This is one way a dealer can get a Super Duty (Theres plenty of these conversion units to be had if you want one). The downfall is that (if you like the stuff they add to the trucks which many people don't) the price is extremely high for these conversions. Nathan Bernard Union Auto, Inc. Union, IA 50258 - -----Original Message----- From: Bud Feuless & Miki Magara To: 97up-list Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 10:42 PM Subject: FTE 97up - Where the Super Duty Lariats Are (good news and bad) >The good news: Jack Roach Ford in Houston, TX has a loaded red Lariat 350 >Club Cab Dually with the V-10. Some guy cancelled his order after it >arrived. They're motivated (they didn't waste any time trying to sell it to >me, but it's not quite for me...). > >The news that seems good until you get to the end: Planet Ford, a dealership >that just opened up near the Woodlands in Houston has at least 20-30 350 and >250 Super Duties... and they're all Lariats! They have 4x4, 4x2, every >color under the sun, mostly diesels and a few V-10's. Here's the >downside... every single one is customized with two-tone airbrush fade >paint, full length fiberglass running boards, wood inlay around everything >from the a/c vents to the doors, bugguards, ventvisors, heavy tint, the >works. They seem to think that all that cr*p is worth about $7000. I think >they are just trying to up the ante in a neighborhood noted for never asking >the price before buying. They have TWO of the black Lariat 4x4 250's with >PSD that I am dying for, but have converted them into (excuse the term) ... >"White Trash Glamour-Mobiles!" I especially think the 4x4 Off-Road > versions >look pretty stupid with running boards that droop within a few inches of the >ground (if you enjoy the idea of showing up at your next off-road slug-fest >with your truck dressed in a pink tu-tu, this truck's for you!). > >Somebody want to explain how these abominations to humanity got hold of so >many fine trucks... only to completely spoil them for the rest of us? > >Regards, Bud == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:21:49 -0500 From: "Keith Veren" Subject: FTE 97up - So Far Good Delivery News Just got a call from my Dealer, Acton Ford in Acton, Massachusetts. He checks the computer every Wednesday for the update on customer orders. My F-350 XLT / SuperDuty / SuperCab / 4X4 / LongWheelBase / V-10 / 3.73 / built-to-the-tilt / (with a spare tire, which I knew was optional by reading all the information available before I bought!) Deep Wedgwood Blue w/Graphite Interior pick-up truck, ordered September 26, 1998 has been scheduled for build, and the expected delivery date is December 16, 1998. I did not think I had a chance to see this truck before next Spring, much less before Christmas. All others waiting for a truck with the same specifications as mine take heart - they are building them now! Keith == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:03:19 -0800 From: Peter Schmidt Subject: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? Hi everyone, I'm a new to the list. I've decided to ditch my Suburban & buy a new HD250 crew cab. I've test drove both the v10 & diesel versions a couple of miles. The V10 is definitely much more responsive of the lime. In searching the archives to this mailing list I've noticed that the mileage on the V10 is around 10-12 & the diesel up in the 16-20 range. I drive about 20K miles per year & have a ski boat that I tow on occasion. I have a place in the mountains that I drive to alot in the winter. This is the first time I've ever considered a diesel. Other than it being a bit noisy it looks o.k. I'd like to hear any preferences/suggestions that you may have. Thanks.. peter == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:31:47 EST From: RSnovi Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ford 99 Superduty Spare Tire Kit In a message dated 98-11-17 23:39:53 EST, you write: Hey, sorry about that i was just trying to point out that if they are going to start short changeing us, let them know. Yea i am a informed, buyer i did lots of homework to know what there cost is and what i was going to pay for my F 250 4x4 pwrstroke x cab. I have to wheel and deal them for about a week and half but finally got the price where i wanted. After i let the guy sweat a couple gallons! lol! I hear Redline 15W-40 tastes good. RS 99 F250 super duty 4x4 93 Cobra what a bunch of crap no spare for a truck, man they are really getting cheap... etc... etc... I propose a new rule for this board: Anyone who disrespects Nathan has to drink 14 quarts of used PSD crankcase oil before they are allowed to post again. I have never seen Mr. Bernard be anything but civil, helpful, and respectful to the other members of this board and I think he deserves the same (or more). His gratuitous and informative posts are an important asset to all of us and I doubt that any of us want to lose that just because somebody mouthed off once too often. Anyhow, Nathan is dead right. The facts that the bumper and spare are options are clearly spelled out in the F-Series propaganda with the other options, to the point where they specifically mention that the Front bumper is standard! This is also spelled out quite well in every price guide on or off-line that I have seen, including , Edmonds.com and ConsumerGuide. I don't fault anyone for making this gaff..., it took me a bit to figure out the rear bumper bit. But if I'd placed my order without it, it would have been my own fault, not the dealers. I, like you, am an informed buyer. A smart dealer knows that he should neither attempt to coddle nor cheat us. Unlike most buyers, we know what we want and what it should cost and want no B.S. about it! We judge our dealers by how quickly and how well they service our orders. We are not the kind of buyers who walk into the showroom needing the salesman to hold our hand and help us decide between the Escort and the F-350 Dually. We often deal with the fleet salesmen. My point is, when they see us coming, their attitude changes... overall for the better. I assume that none of us want the dealer to demonstrate the wonderful drivers' side lighted make-up mirror, charge us $500 for the "Vehicle Protection Plan" that's in a bottle in the glove compartment, nor step us through our order when we walk in knowing what we want. By the fact that you are here, you are most likely people who look twice before you buy, ... informed or even picky buyers! So you would have gone through the standard equipment and options lists with a fine tooth comb, just to make sure you got all the goodies you want, right? Right! The Navy has a sign over the only stop light at Guantanamo Bay Naval Station that reads "This Is a Stop Light." You are all far too intelligent to need this kind of treatment from Ford. Accept your error gracefully. Cheers, Bud >> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:36:55 -0800 From: johny Subject: Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel? I went through this, and have an 99 F350 4x4 SC short bed with PSD. Unloaded, payback is in the 80-100K range. Loaded, about half that. Accounting for price difference in gas/ diesel and the additional cost of the diesel engine. I spec'd the truck to haul a 2300 lb truck camper + 5000lb boat, or a 13000 lbs 5th wheel, and still fit it in the garage. I also intended to keep this truck awhile and drive it to death... On the assumption you do your own maintennance, Diesel is a bit more at 14 qt /per change, and about a 2 qt size filter on oil changes. But on the other hand, no plugs, wires and other gas tuneup issues. It's also a bit more sensitive to care and maintennance, but as others will tell you, the Power Stroke is an *animal* of an engine. Others with get into it, but here's some sites that will address more than you thought possible.. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.abol.com/users/jlester/ - the source for Ford Diesels http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/roadtest/fordvschevy/index.html - - some comments at the end about the PSD. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/articles.htm - a good source for diesel parts > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/artwdsl.htm - more comments that anwser questions like this. - -john Peter Schmidt wrote: > Hi everyone, I'm a new to the list. > > I've decided to ditch my Suburban & buy a new HD250 crew cab. I've test > drove both the v10 & diesel versions a couple of miles. The V10 is > definitely much more responsive of the lime. In searching the archives to > this mailing list I've noticed that the mileage on the V10 is around 10-12 > & the diesel up in the 16-20 range. > > I drive about 20K miles per year & have a ski boat that I tow on occasion. > I have a place in the mountains that I drive to alot in the winter. > > This is the first time I've ever considered a diesel. Other than it being.... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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