97up-list-digest Thursday, November 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 282



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate
RE: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate
FTE 97up - Engine/ Exhaust Brake for '99 P.S. Diesel
> Re: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate
Re: FTE 97up - Where the Super Duty Lariats Are (good news and bad)
FTE 97up - So Far Good Delivery News
FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ford 99 Superduty Spare Tire Kit
Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
RE: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
FTE 97up - Week #36 Commodity projections
Re: FTE 97up - So Far Good Delivery News
Re: FTE 97up - V10 Gas Milage
Re: FTE 97up - Week #36 Commodity projections
Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?
Re: Re: FTE 97up - floor mats
> Re: FTE 97up - Re: Fog light installation
FTE 97up - Aftermarket cab steps for '99 F-150 supercab
Re: FTE 97up - Re: Gifts
Re: FTE 97up - Where the Super Duty Lariats Are (good news and bad)
Re: FTE 97up - floor mats
>
=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:58:17 -0500
From: Michael
Subject: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate

Don,

While I agree with you in your statement about not bashing Nathan as I
even sent him a personal message thanking him for his contributions to this
group, I disagree with you about the Spare Tire Option being plainly listed
in the FoMoCo Superduty Truck Book.

I went through the book cover to cover, again, and there is no listing
in the Features and Options pages for a Spare Tire or Mount. In fact, I
still have my original book that I sat down with and ordered from. There
were many, many superfluous features listed like extra lights, tow hooks,
moldings, and etc, but NO LISTING for a spare tire or Carrier for Same.

As another matter of fact, there are several pictures showing the F250
and F350 Superduty Trucks with spare tires in the FoMoCo Book. As a
consumer and customer, I try to be very informed about my purchases so why
would I not order a Spare Tire and Carrier for traveling when I order a
$35,000.00 loaded Truck ? Makes no sense except that it is not a known
fact among consumers or advertised as an option by FoMoCo.

Forget online and such as most people order from the FoMoCo book with
their dealers.............

I, along with many other consumers, am upset about this situation and
would expect that a fine company like Ford Motor Corp would address it
properly.

I'm open to any suggestions about a remedy to this situation and will
gladly contact FoMoCo if someone can give me a name and number to call or
write.

Michael
99 Superduty SuperCab 4X4 Diesel Lariat




> I propose a new rule for this board: Anyone who disrespects Nathan has to
> drink 14 quarts of used PSD crankcase oil before they are allowed to post
> again. I have never seen Mr. Bernard be anything but civil, helpful, and
> respectful to the other members of this board and I think he deserves the
> same (or more). His gratuitous and informative posts are an important asset
> to all of us and I doubt that any of us want to lose that just because
> somebody mouthed off once too often.

> The facts that the bumper and spare are options are clearly spelled out in
> the F-Series propaganda with the other options, to the point where they
> specifically mention that the Front bumper is standard! This is also
> spelled out quite well in every price guide on or off-line that I have
seen,
> including , Edmonds.com and ConsumerGuide. I don't fault
> anyone for making this gaff..., it took me a bit to figure out the rear
> bumper bit. But if I'd placed my order without it, it would have been my
> own fault, not the dealers.


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:52:02 -0500
From: "Suarez, William"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate

Michael,

If you go to the Ford website and look at the spec sheets for the super
duties (Acrobat PDF format) you will see the spare tire and carrier listed
as an option.

Start at: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordvehicles.com/superduty/specs.html

Select the "Features and Options" link
(http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordvehicles.com/superduty/features.pdf) and look in the first
column, Exterior Features, Wheels and you will see that last line item as
"spare tire and wheel".

Regards,

Bill Suarez


- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael [mailto:dixieboy earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 7:58 AM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate


Don,

While I agree with you in your statement about not bashing Nathan as I
even sent him a personal message thanking him for his contributions to this
group, I disagree with you about the Spare Tire Option being plainly listed
in the FoMoCo Superduty Truck Book.

I went through the book cover to cover, again, and there is no listing
in the Features and Options pages for a Spare Tire or Mount. In fact, I
still have my original book that I sat down with and ordered from. There
were many, many superfluous features listed like extra lights, tow hooks,
moldings, and etc, but NO LISTING for a spare tire or Carrier for Same.

As another matter of fact, there are several pictures showing the F250
and F350 Superduty Trucks with spare tires in the FoMoCo Book. As a
consumer and customer, I try to be very informed about my purchases so why
would I not order a Spare Tire and Carrier for traveling when I order a
$35,000.00 loaded Truck ? Makes no sense except that it is not a known
fact among consumers or advertised as an option by FoMoCo.

Forget online and such as most people order from the FoMoCo book with
their dealers.............

I, along with many other consumers, am upset about this situation and
would expect that a fine company like Ford Motor Corp would address it
properly.

I'm open to any suggestions about a remedy to this situation and will
gladly contact FoMoCo if someone can give me a name and number to call or
write.

Michael
99 Superduty SuperCab 4X4 Diesel Lariat




> I propose a new rule for this board: Anyone who disrespects Nathan has to
> drink 14 quarts of used PSD crankcase oil before they are allowed to post
> again. I have never seen Mr. Bernard be anything but civil, helpful, and
> respectful to the other members of this board and I think he deserves the
> same (or more). His gratuitous and informative posts are an important
asset
> to all of us and I doubt that any of us want to lose that just because
> somebody mouthed off once too often.

> The facts that the bumper and spare are options are clearly spelled out in

> the F-Series propaganda with the other options, to the point where they
> specifically mention that the Front bumper is standard! This is also
> spelled out quite well in every price guide on or off-line that I have
seen,
> including , Edmonds.com and ConsumerGuide. I don't fault
> anyone for making this gaff..., it took me a bit to figure out the rear
> bumper bit. But if I'd placed my order without it, it would have been my
> own fault, not the dealers.


== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:34:17 -0500
From: "Neil Stahl"
Subject: FTE 97up - Engine/ Exhaust Brake for '99 P.S. Diesel
>
I have a '99 f/450 PSD, auto. tranny (nice truck!) and will be pulling a
large 5'th wheel up and down mountains. I understand an exhaust brake is a
good idea, and have materials from BD and U.S. Gear (PacBrake didn't have
theirs ready yet when I called them). Their approaches are different and I
have no expertise to tell which might be better.

I'd appreciate comments from anyone who has used either exhaust brake
> (especially on the 99 PSD) or who has enough expertise to compare the two
systems.

Thanks for your help.

Neil Stahl

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:55:08 -0600
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate

But apparently for many this has not been enough. One line in a table listed as
a option, has failed to properly convey to buyers that a spare tire won't be
coming with your new truck unless you take this option.

What's being debated here is not that is doesn't appear in the Ford spec sheet -
but how it appears, it's just not working as intended for all customers.

Charles.




Suarez, William wrote:

> Michael,
>
> If you go to the Ford website and look at the spec sheets for the super
> duties (Acrobat PDF format) you will see the spare tire and carrier listed
> as an option.
>
> Start at: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordvehicles.com/superduty/specs.html
>
> Select the "Features and Options" link
> (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fordvehicles.com/superduty/features.pdf) and look in the first
> column, Exterior Features, Wheels and you will see that last line item as
> "spare tire and wheel".
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Suarez
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael [mailto:dixieboy earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 7:58 AM
> To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: FTE 97up - F250 Superduty Spare Tire Debate
>
> Don,
>
> While I agree with you in your statement about not bashing Nathan as I
> even sent him a personal message thanking him for his contributions to this
> group, I disagree with you about the Spare Tire Option being plainly listed
> in the FoMoCo Superduty Truck Book.
>
> I went through the book cover to cover, again, and there is no listing
> in the Features and Options pages for a Spare Tire or Mount. In fact, I
> still have my original book that I sat down with and ordered from. There
> were many, many superfluous features listed like extra lights, tow hooks,
> moldings, and etc, but NO LISTING for a spare tire or Carrier for Same.
>
> As another matter of fact, there are several pictures showing the F250
> and F350 Superduty Trucks with spare tires in the FoMoCo Book. As a
> consumer and customer, I try to be very informed about my purchases so why
> would I not order a Spare Tire and Carrier for traveling when I order a
> $35,000.00 loaded Truck ? Makes no sense except that it is not a known
> fact among consumers or advertised as an option by FoMoCo.
>
> Forget online and such as most people order from the FoMoCo book with
> their dealers.............
>
> I, along with many other consumers, am upset about this situation and
> would expect that a fine company like Ford Motor Corp would address it
> properly.
>
> I'm open to any suggestions about a remedy to this situation and will
> gladly contact FoMoCo if someone can give me a name and number to call or
> write.
>
> Michael
> 99 Superduty SuperCab 4X4 Diesel Lariat
>
>
>
> > I propose a new rule for this board: Anyone who disrespects Nathan has to
> > drink 14 quarts of used PSD crankcase oil before they are allowed to post
> > again. I have never seen Mr. Bernard be anything but civil, helpful, and
> > respectful to the other members of this board and I think he deserves the
> > same (or more). His gratuitous and informative posts are an important
> asset
> > to all of us and I doubt that any of us want to lose that just because
> > somebody mouthed off once too often.
>
> > The facts that the bumper and spare are options are clearly spelled out in
>
> > the F-Series propaganda with the other options, to the point where they
> > specifically mention that the Front bumper is standard! This is also
> > spelled out quite well in every price guide on or off-line that I have
> seen,
> > including , Edmonds.com and ConsumerGuide. I don't fault
> > anyone for making this gaff..., it took me a bit to figure out the rear
> > bumper bit. But if I'd placed my order without it, it would have been my
> > own fault, not the dealers.
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:46:46 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Where the Super Duty Lariats Are (good news and bad)

These trucks come from an aftermarket converter. The converters get a
certain number of trucks to modify and then sell to dealers. This is one
way a dealer can get a Super Duty (Theres plenty of these conversion units
to be had if you want one). The downfall is that (if you like the stuff
they add to the trucks which many people don't) the price is extremely high
for these conversions.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Union, IA 50258

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bud Feuless & Miki Magara
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 10:42 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Where the Super Duty Lariats Are (good news and bad)


>The good news: Jack Roach Ford in Houston, TX has a loaded red Lariat 350
>Club Cab Dually with the V-10. Some guy cancelled his order after it
>arrived. They're motivated (they didn't waste any time trying to sell it
to
>me, but it's not quite for me...).
>
>The news that seems good until you get to the end: Planet Ford, a
dealership
>that just opened up near the Woodlands in Houston has at least 20-30 350
and
>250 Super Duties... and they're all Lariats! They have 4x4, 4x2, every
>color under the sun, mostly diesels and a few V-10's. Here's the
>downside... every single one is customized with two-tone airbrush fade
>paint, full length fiberglass running boards, wood inlay around everything
>from the a/c vents to the doors, bugguards, ventvisors, heavy tint, the
>works. They seem to think that all that cr*p is worth about $7000. I
think
>they are just trying to up the ante in a neighborhood noted for never
asking
>the price before buying. They have TWO of the black Lariat 4x4 250's with
>PSD that I am dying for, but have converted them into (excuse the term) ...
>"White Trash Glamour-Mobiles!" I especially think the 4x4 Off-Road
> versions
>look pretty stupid with running boards that droop within a few inches of
the
>ground (if you enjoy the idea of showing up at your next off-road slug-fest
>with your truck dressed in a pink tu-tu, this truck's for you!).
>
>Somebody want to explain how these abominations to humanity got hold of so
>many fine trucks... only to completely spoil them for the rest of us?
>
>Regards, Bud


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:21:49 -0500
From: "Keith Veren"
Subject: FTE 97up - So Far Good Delivery News

Just got a call from my Dealer, Acton Ford in Acton, Massachusetts. He
checks the computer every Wednesday for the update on customer orders. My
F-350 XLT / SuperDuty / SuperCab / 4X4 / LongWheelBase / V-10 / 3.73 /
built-to-the-tilt / (with a spare tire, which I knew was optional by reading
all the information available before I bought!) Deep Wedgwood Blue
w/Graphite Interior pick-up truck, ordered September 26, 1998 has been
scheduled for build, and the expected delivery date is December 16, 1998. I
did not think I had a chance to see this truck before next Spring, much less
before Christmas. All others waiting for a truck with the same
specifications as mine take heart - they are building them now!


Keith

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:03:19 -0800
From: Peter Schmidt
Subject: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?

Hi everyone, I'm a new to the list.

I've decided to ditch my Suburban & buy a new HD250 crew cab. I've test
drove both the v10 & diesel versions a couple of miles. The V10 is
definitely much more responsive of the lime. In searching the archives to
this mailing list I've noticed that the mileage on the V10 is around 10-12
& the diesel up in the 16-20 range.

I drive about 20K miles per year & have a ski boat that I tow on occasion.
I have a place in the mountains that I drive to alot in the winter.

This is the first time I've ever considered a diesel. Other than it being
a bit noisy it looks o.k.

I'd like to hear any preferences/suggestions that you may have.

Thanks..

peter
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:31:47 EST
From: RSnovi aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Re: Ford 99 Superduty Spare Tire Kit

In a message dated 98-11-17 23:39:53 EST, you write:

Hey, sorry about that i was just trying to point out that if they are going to
start short changeing us, let them know. Yea i am a informed, buyer i did
lots of homework to know what there cost is and what i was going to pay for my
F 250 4x4 pwrstroke x cab. I have to wheel and deal them for about a week and
half but finally got the price where i wanted. After i let the guy sweat a
couple gallons! lol!

I hear Redline 15W-40 tastes good.

RS
99 F250 super duty 4x4
93 Cobra

what a bunch of crap no spare for a truck, man they are really getting
cheap...

etc... etc...

I propose a new rule for this board: Anyone who disrespects Nathan has to
drink 14 quarts of used PSD crankcase oil before they are allowed to post
again. I have never seen Mr. Bernard be anything but civil, helpful, and
respectful to the other members of this board and I think he deserves the
same (or more). His gratuitous and informative posts are an important asset
to all of us and I doubt that any of us want to lose that just because
somebody mouthed off once too often. Anyhow, Nathan is dead right.

The facts that the bumper and spare are options are clearly spelled out in
the F-Series propaganda with the other options, to the point where they
specifically mention that the Front bumper is standard! This is also
spelled out quite well in every price guide on or off-line that I have seen,
including , Edmonds.com and ConsumerGuide. I don't fault
anyone for making this gaff..., it took me a bit to figure out the rear
bumper bit. But if I'd placed my order without it, it would have been my
own fault, not the dealers.

I, like you, am an informed buyer. A smart dealer knows that he should
neither attempt to coddle nor cheat us. Unlike most buyers, we know what we
want and what it should cost and want no B.S. about it! We judge our
dealers by how quickly and how well they service our orders. We are not the
kind of buyers who walk into the showroom needing the salesman to hold our
hand and help us decide between the Escort and the F-350 Dually. We often
deal with the fleet salesmen. My point is, when they see us coming, their
attitude changes... overall for the better. I assume that none of us want
the dealer to demonstrate the wonderful drivers' side lighted make-up
mirror, charge us $500 for the "Vehicle Protection Plan" that's in a bottle
in the glove compartment, nor step us through our order when we walk in
knowing what we want.

By the fact that you are here, you are most likely people who look twice
before you buy, ... informed or even picky buyers! So you would have gone
through the standard equipment and options lists with a fine tooth comb,
just to make sure you got all the goodies you want, right? Right!

The Navy has a sign over the only stop light at Guantanamo Bay Naval Station
that reads "This Is a Stop Light." You are all far too intelligent to need
this kind of treatment from Ford. Accept your error gracefully.

Cheers, Bud
>>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:36:55 -0800
From: johny
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - V10 or 7.3 Diesel?

I went through this, and have an 99 F350 4x4 SC short bed with PSD.
Unloaded, payback is in the 80-100K range. Loaded, about half that.
Accounting for price difference in gas/ diesel and the additional cost of the
diesel engine.

I spec'd the truck to haul a 2300 lb truck camper + 5000lb boat, or
a 13000 lbs 5th wheel, and still fit it in the garage. I also intended to
keep this truck awhile and drive it to death...

On the assumption you do your own maintennance, Diesel is a bit more
at 14 qt /per change, and about a 2 qt size filter on oil changes. But on
the other hand, no plugs, wires and other gas tuneup issues.
It's also a bit more sensitive to care and maintennance, but as others
will tell you, the Power Stroke is an *animal* of an engine.

Others with get into it, but here's some sites that will address more than
you thought possible..

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.abol.com/users/jlester/ - the source for Ford Diesels
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fourwheeler.com/newtrucks/roadtest/fordvschevy/index.html
- - some comments at the end about the PSD.

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/articles.htm - a good source for diesel parts
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dieselpage.com/artwdsl.htm - more comments that anwser questions
like this.


- -john

Peter Schmidt wrote:

> Hi everyone, I'm a new to the list.
>
> I've decided to ditch my Suburban & buy a new HD250 crew cab. I've test
> drove both the v10 & diesel versions a couple of miles. The V10 is
> definitely much more responsive of the lime. In searching the archives to
> this mailing list I've noticed that the mileage on the V10 is around 10-12
> & the diesel up in the 16-20 range.
>
> I drive about 20K miles per year & have a ski boat that I tow on occasion.
> I have a place in the mountains that I drive to alot in the winter.
>
> This is the first time I've ever considered a diesel. Other than it being....

---

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