97up-list-digest Thursday, October 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 253



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 97up - Clearing up the confusion (was Re: suspension questions)
Re: FTE 97up - Full-floating Axles (was S/D 5.4l)
Re: FTE 97up - Wheels and Tires
Re: FTE 97up - Full-floating Axles (was S/D 5.4l)
Re: FTE 97up - Clearing up the confusion (was Re: suspension questions)
FTE 97up - Is this Marketing?
Re: FTE 97up - Is this Marketing?
FTE 97up - Engine Fault Codes
Re: FTE 97up - Is this Marketing?
FTE 97up - Changed Order to V10 Engine
Re: FTE 97up - Full-floating Axles (was S/D 5.4l)
Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: Give us your favorite web site addresses
FTE 97up - 99' F150 Automatic Transmissions
FTE 97up - General question re: Dually wheels
Re: FTE 97up - General question re: Dually wheels
Re: FTE 97up - 99' F150 Automatic Transmissions
FTE 97up - RE: Piston slap in 4.6L
FTE 97up - ADMIN: Links
FTE 97up - Running boards or fiberglass steps
Re: FTE 97up - Running boards or fiberglass steps... Wrong ETA

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:52:51 -0000
From: "Scott and Lisa Williams"
Subject: FTE 97up - Clearing up the confusion (was Re: suspension questions)

First let me clear up the confusion on why I have a 4x4 that I want to
lower. My wife and I had full intentions of purchasing a 98 f150 last
month. We did our research, went to all the dealerships, and saw a few that
we liked. We didn't, however, find any that were "love at first sight." I
hadn't even considered looking in the used truck area, but as we were
walking to the sales office we saw this truck sitting in front. It had
everything I wanted in a truck and more. I didn't mind that it was a 97
f-150, because in reality, the truck was less than one year old (produced
12/97).

The new truck we were looking for was:
98 f-150,FS,SC,5.4,Black,Lariat pkg.
The truck we purchased was:
97 f-150,FS,SC,5.4,Black,Lariat pkg., + 4x4,ORP,TTP,Bedliner,Snugtop
Bedcover

we got the truck for less than we could've gotten the 98 (had one dealer
talked down to $1.00 over dealer invoice for the 98), and got more than we
were looking for. We weren't really looking for a 4x4, but it came with the
truck. The other options (bedliner,bedcover,TTP) would have been installed
at some point on the 98. This truck will not be going off-road, but will,
in the future, tow a boat trailer. The weather here in middle TN is
unpredictable in winter, but we mostly get ice with some snow. We do not,
however, get enough snow that my front end would act as a large shovel (I
only plan on lowering the truck 3-4 in.). So now as to why I want to lower
my truck - (1) I like the look of a moderately lowered truck better, and (2)
handling improvements, esp. in cornering, etc...Towing height would be
re-established with an air suspension setup.
I hope this clears up some confusion and answers some questions. I respect
the fact that all of you are entitled to your own opinions - just as I am.
What I don't appreciate are derogatory comments made hiding behind the fact
that it is your opinion. You don't have to like the fact of what someone
wants to do - that doesn't mean that it is stupid or that they belong to a
certain "sect" of the population. I don't mind a little harmless flaming,
however, some things are better left unsaid...
I do apologize for the long post - just wanted to clear the air.
- ---scott


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:29:49 -0400
From: Dick_Dorff baynetworks.com (Dick Dorff)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Full-floating Axles (was S/D 5.4l)

No, but from what I've heard, Dodge and Chevy are gradually moving away from it by
offering it only on higher-end models. I think ford is the only to offer it on
both front and rear. It must have been just Chevy that only offered on a 3500
level truck (or higher). I obviously don't know all the details on competitor
offerings, and didn't mean to imply that Ford cornered the market, just that they
still make the effort to offer it on a wider range of trucks, and both front and
rear (for 4x4).

- -Dick

Mountain Charlie wrote:

> I'm pretty sure the Dana 80 in the rear of Dodge 2500HD and 3500 is full
> floating as well. Don't know about Chevy, but Ford certainly does not have
> a corner on this technology.
>
> charlie
>
> >
> >Apparently Ford is the only one of the big-three to offer full-floating axles
> >for the rear of a 250-type truck, and the only one to offer it on both the
> >front
> >and rear (Super Duty 250s and up).
> >
>
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:06:35 -0500
From: "Mike Fairleigh"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Wheels and Tires

Does it have the 255x70x16's? I can't remember if all the 4x4's come with
them standard. Many people feel the 235's which are standard on the 4x2's
are too small for the wheel well, cosmetically speaking. I ordered the 255
upgrade and to me, they look perfect. Are you looking for something larger
than that?

Mike Fairleigh
mikef sky.net
...Always remembering their sacrifices.


> The factory tires look entirely out of proportion.


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:18:41 -0400
From: "Frank Wanicka"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Full-floating Axles (was S/D 5.4l)

well, all 4x4 front axles are full-floating by definition, so the only
question is whether the rear is. you are correct about Chevy, although i'm
not sure about their new models.
____________________
Frank Wanicka

>No, but from what I've heard, Dodge and Chevy are gradually moving away
from it by
>offering it only on higher-end models. I think ford is the only to offer
it on
>both front and rear. It must have been just Chevy that only offered on a
3500
>level truck (or higher). I obviously don't know all the details on
competitor
>offerings, and didn't mean to imply that Ford cornered the market, just
that they
>still make the effort to offer it on a wider range of trucks, and both
front and
>rear (for 4x4).
>
>-Dick

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:31:23 -0400
From: Dick_Dorff baynetworks.com (Dick Dorff)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Clearing up the confusion (was Re: suspension questions)

On a slight tangent from this, Scott recently mentioned that he'd prefer
technical responses to the question at hand, and not second-guessing of the
decision he'd already made, just info on how to carry it out. I can respect
that. However, while that may well be his desire, I don't think it should be
made a general rule (not that there's any risk of any list keeping all opinions
to itself :-) ).

Personally, I need opinions that second-guess the decision lying behind a
question I ask or a post I make, and welcome opinions on alternative,
potentially better, solutions. The second-guessing forces me to re-evaluate my
basis for the decision and ferrit out any assumptions made that were incorrect,
or exposes any facts I'd neglected to take into consideration. The alternative
solutions force me to consider possibilities I might have neglected to consider,
or ruled out based on incorrect assumptions or unconsidered facts. The reason
it's probably more helpful for me right now is that I'm in the truck
configuration decision-making process and the opinions of those who own them is
the next best thing to having owned one myself. Case in point; my setback
about the 5.4l offering for the S/D lineup was responded to with many
"...consider the V10 instead, similar mpg, better towing power..." and
"...consider the PSD..." and "...you'll really be glad you got the larger
engine..." etc. Ideally, if they came with a bit more concrete data like "...I
tow a xxxxlb trailer w/ y.yy gears and the z.zzliter engine is not quite
enough..." it would be even more helpful. Nonetheless, the number of responses
on various alternatives, and the reasoning behind their recommendations, is
invaluable to my decision making process.

I've got a pretty thick skin in this regard, because I assume that I know way
too little about all things automotive, and that I can only learn, or less
likely, inform someone else of something, by any questioning and fact and
opinion offering. There is room in the recent exchange on 4x4 lowering however
for a little more respect to be shown when second-guessing someone's decision.
Approaching the second-guessing a bit more politely might leave the
second-guesser more open to learning something in case his/her opinions were
imperfect in their basis on fact, and might leave person being second-guessed
more willing to share their basis for the original decision, and might thus
enlighten the rest in some facts or ideas we hadn't considered.

Just a thought, from my perspective.

Dick Dorff.

Scott and Lisa Williams wrote:

> I hope this clears up some confusion and answers some questions. I respect
> the fact that all of you are entitled to your own opinions - just as I am.
> What I don't appreciate are derogatory comments made hiding behind the fact
> that it is your opinion. You don't have to like the fact of what someone
> wants to do - that doesn't mean that it is stupid or that they belong to a
> certain "sect" of the population. I don't mind a little harmless flaming,
> however, some things are better left unsaid...
> I do apologize for the long post - just wanted to clear the air.
> ---scott
>



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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:50:22 -0400
From: "John W. Barron"
Subject: FTE 97up - Is this Marketing?

The lease on my 1997 Ford Ranger is expiring, so I went in to the
dealers to
put in an order for the truck I want. I love the Ranger, and have been
very pleased with the 4.0 L engine, the 5 speed auto., etc.

My requirements were simple: Bucket seats, fog lamps, 4.0 L engine, 5
speed auto. 4X2 , tach., supercab with 4 doors, Power options, and a
solid rear window (non-opening).

Guess what! It can't be done. First of all, you can't get bucket seats
unless you buy a 4X4. No explanation - just accept it. Next, if you
want fog lamps and a tach, you must buy the "Sports" option. O.K., but
that means I can't get the exterior color I wanted (Harvest Gold).
Why? No explanation, just accept it.
Limited Slip axle? V6 only! And last, but certainly not the most
insulting, the sliding rear window is a "required" option! A what?
Isn't that an oxymoron?

So, I must accept Oxford White, rather that the color I wanted. I'll
get a truck with SPORT in six inch letters on the rear fenders, and
I'll have a sliding rear window which will remain unopened, as the
current one has.

And the American auto industry can't understand why the offshore
manufacturers can make such inroads into their customer base.....

Fellows, it's called marketing 101 - give the customer what he wants,
not
what some executive in the home office decides he can have.

- --
John W. Barron
j.w.barron worldnet.att.net
PCS Mobile Phone: 919-272-2384

Avoyelles Parish (LA) Web Page:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~jwbarron/avoyeles.htm


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:29:24 -0400
From: Jean Marc Chartier
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Is this Marketing?

John W. Barron wrote:

> The lease on my 1997 Ford Ranger is expiring, so I went in to the
> dealers to
> put in an order for the truck I want. I love the Ranger, and have been
> very pleased with the 4.0 L engine, the 5 speed auto., etc.
>
> My requirements were simple: Bucket seats, fog lamps, 4.0 L engine, 5
> speed auto. 4X2 , tach., supercab with 4 doors, Power options, and a
> solid rear window (non-opening).
>
> Guess what! It can't be done. First of all, you can't get bucket seats
> unless you buy a 4X4. No explanation - just accept it. Next, if you
> want fog lamps and a tach, you must buy the "Sports" option. O.K., but
> that means I can't get the exterior color I wanted (Harvest Gold).
> Why? No explanation, just accept it.
> Limited Slip axle? V6 only! And last, but certainly not the most
> insulting, the sliding rear window is a "required" option! A what?
> Isn't that an oxymoron?
>
> So, I must accept Oxford White, rather that the color I wanted. I'll
> get a truck with SPORT in six inch letters on the rear fenders, and
> I'll have a sliding rear window which will remain unopened, as the
> current one has.
>
> And the American auto industry can't understand why the offshore
> manufacturers can make such inroads into their customer base.....
>
> Fellows, it's called marketing 101 - give the customer what he wants,
> not
> what some executive in the home office decides he can have.
>
> --
> John W. Barron
> j.w.barron worldnet.att.net
> PCS Mobile Phone: 919-272-2384
>
> Avoyelles Parish (LA) Web Page:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~jwbarron/avoyeles.htm


John,

Are you sure your dealer hasen't made a mistake? Back in the 70's my
Dealer told me I couldn't get a 400 ci with manual transmission in a
Bronco. He was wrong... Have you looked at Mazda? Same truck, but with
Japanese letters. Maybe they have the combo you want.

Regards

Jean Marc Chartier


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:36:29 -0700
From: bklm juno.com (Brian K Moberg)
Subject: FTE 97up - Engine Fault Codes

The "Check Engine Soon" light in my '98 F150 came on for a brief period
of time and then went away on its own. Does the fault code that triggered
the light remain in the vehicle's computer? after the battery is
disconnected?

Thanks for any info.

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:04:23 -0400
From: Dick_Dorff baynetworks.com (Dick Dorff)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Is this Marketing?

Jean Marc Chartier wrote:

> John W. Barron wrote:
>
> > My requirements were simple:


bottom of your screen and force you to
scroll down - my only gripe about pre-quoting>

> > Guess what! It can't be done. John,
>
> Are you sure your dealer hasen't made a mistake? Back in the 70's my
> Dealer told me I couldn't get a 400 ci with manual transmission in a
> Bronco. He was wrong... Have you looked at Mazda? Same truck, but with
> Japanese letters. Maybe they have the combo you want.

Good point. Check Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book, MS Carpoint, Carprices.com.The
give all prices and ordering combinations, restrictions etc. So far, they've
been completly consistent with what dealers say, once they look it up, which
they almost always have to for any of my '99 questions.

Dick Dorff


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:12:21 -0500
From: "Charles Abraham"
Subject: FTE 97up - Changed Order to V10 Engine

Just changed a three weeks old F250 Super Duty 4x4 order with my local Ford dealer,
from the standard V8 engine to the V10. Yes, a couple of hundred more and several
months more added to the delivery time (dealer's been instructed by Ford to now tell
V10 buyers "five to seven months delivery", that's at priority #10, too) .

And this is going to be the really hard part, driving my '88 Mustang 5.0 through
another winter on snow and ice packed country roads!

But all and all I feel it well worth it. For I don't believe I would have been
completely satisfied otherwise.

Just like to say thanks to Dick Dorff for raising the flag on the 5.4L, and the
feedback from the discussion group.

Charles.

Dick Dorff wrote:

> On a slight tangent from this, Scott recently mentioned that he'd prefer
> technical responses to the question at hand, and not second-guessing of the
> decision he'd already made, just info on how to carry it out. I can respect
> that. However, while that may well be his desire, I don't think it should be
> made a general rule (not that there's any risk of any list keeping all opinions
> to itself :-) ).
>
> Personally, I need opinions that second-guess the decision lying behind a
> question I ask or a post I make, and welcome opinions on alternative,
> potentially better, solutions. The second-guessing forces me to re-evaluate my
> basis for the decision and ferrit out any assumptions made that were incorrect,
> or exposes any facts I'd neglected to take into consideration. The alternative
> solutions force me to consider possibilities I might have neglected to consider,
> or ruled out based on incorrect assumptions or unconsidered facts. The reason
> it's probably more helpful for me right now is that I'm in the truck
> configuration decision-making process and the opinions of those who own them is
> the next best thing to having owned one myself. Case in point; my setback
> about the 5.4l offering for the S/D lineup was responded to with many
> "...consider the V10 instead, similar mpg, better towing power..." and
> "...consider the PSD..." and "...you'll really be glad you got the larger
> engine..." etc. Ideally, if they came with a bit more concrete data like "...I
> tow a xxxxlb trailer w/ y.yy gears and the z.zzliter engine is not quite
> enough..." it would be even more helpful. Nonetheless, the number of responses
> on various alternatives, and the reasoning behind their recommendations, is
> invaluable to my decision making process.
>
> I've got a pretty thick skin in this regard, because I assume that I know way
> too little about all things automotive, and that I can only learn, or less
> likely, inform someone else of something, by any questioning and fact and
> opinion offering. There is room in the recent exchange on 4x4 lowering however
> for a little more respect to be shown when second-guessing someone's decision.
> Approaching the second-guessing a bit more politely might leave the
> second-guesser more open to learning something in case his/her opinions were
> imperfect in their basis on fact, and might leave person being second-guessed
> more willing to share their basis for the original decision, and might thus
> enlighten the rest in some facts or ideas we hadn't considered.
>
> Just a thought, from my perspective.
>
> Dick Dorff.
>
> Scott and Lisa Williams wrote:
>
> > I hope this clears up some confusion and answers some questions. I respect
> > the fact that all of you are entitled to your own opinions - just as I am.
> > What I don't appreciate are derogatory comments made hiding behind the fact
> > that it is your opinion. You don't have to like the fact of what someone
> > wants to do - that doesn't mean that it is stupid or that they belong to a
> > certain "sect" of the population. I don't mind a little harmless flaming,
> > however, some things are better left unsaid...
> > I do apologize for the long post - just wanted to clear the air.
> > ---scott
> >
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html



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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:25:47 -0700
From: Ken Peterson
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Full-floating Axles (was S/D 5.4l)

>I'm pretty sure that all Light Duties have the semi-floating axle for the
>rear.
>Interesting note though that even though both LD F150 and LD F250 have the
>semi-floating type, the F250 LD is perhaps heavier duty.

I just pored over the diagrams of the 10.5"-ring-gear axle assembly
diagrams in my shop manual (the axle in my 1998 F-250LD), and:

(1) Diff case, outer axle tubes, and brake attachments are all one unit.

(2) Each wheel is bolted directly to a solid half-axle, and that is
inserted into the axle tube (per side), the hub (near) end being supported
by the wheel bearing, and the inner end of the axle shaft meshing with the
differential mechanism.

Sounds to me like the most ordinary arrangement possible. The truck's
weight is borne by the hub to the axle to the wheel bearing to the axle
tube and the spring.

Does that discribe "semi-floating" to anyone? Probably not, eh? But it's
what is discribed for the '98 F-250 LD.

- ---------------
Ken Peterson, Portland, OR
1998 F-250LD Lariat, extended cab, short bed, 4X2, 5.4l, class-3 tow options
LT245X16/steel rims, 4W disks + ABS, load-leveling rear suspension.
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:37:57 EDT
From: BLUESKY636 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - ADMIN: Give us your favorite web site addresses

Ken,

My personal web site is
The
Fourwheeling Puppies . It details the off-road adventures of my wife, our
two Golden Retrievers, and myself in our '98 Expedition XLT 4x4.

Bill and Deb Haegele and Betsy and Oliver (The Fourwheeling Puppies)
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:12:44 -0400
From: jclem
Subject: FTE 97up - 99' F150 Automatic Transmissions

Last Sunday, I was drooling over the 99's at a couple of the local Ford
Dealers and saw something that concerns me. I tow a 4,500lb travel
trailer with my truck so I'm careful what goes in and under it. One
change I noticed on the 99 F150's both with the V6 and V8 engines had
the transmission origin listed as Japan for the automatic transmission.
I've heard the horror stories of Mazda 5 speeds and was wondering what's
up with that. I prefer to buy as American as possible and intend to
trade up to a XLT later in the model year.

Jim


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:20:56 -0700
From: cfoye baynetworks.com (Chris Foye)
Subject: FTE 97up - General question re: Dually wheels

Hey Listers,

I have a general question regarding dually wheels, in particular the front
wheels of dually trucks. Why is it that the front wheels of dually trucks
have such a negative offset? Does it have something to do with keeping the
front wheels in line with the back wheels or is just for aesthetics?

Thanks,

Chris
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:50:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Whipkey
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - General question re: Dually wheels

One benefit at least is that all the wheels are the same. The rears
have to have the offset, and if the front didn't you'd have to have 2
spares.....

D.W.



- ---Chris Foye wrote:
>
> Hey Listers,
>
> I have a general question regarding dually wheels, in particular the
front
> wheels of dually trucks. Why is it that the front wheels of dually
trucks
> have such a negative offset? Does it have something to do with
keeping the
> front wheels in line with the back wheels or is just for aesthetics?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
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>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:33:33 EDT
From: F150DML aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 99' F150 Automatic Transmissions

Jim,
I had a manual trans on my last truck with a v-6.(F-150) I only had it a
year (hated a 5 speed in traffic everyday) but it never acted up once. I even
towed a Bobcat and trailer weighing over 8,000lbs. The truck struggled up
hills, but it made it. After that I never noticed anything with my tranny
that was wrong. It preformed well the entire time I had it. I would also tow
a friends boat almost every week and the 5 speed was perfect. That was my
first 5 speed and like I said it never gave me any problems, despite me towing
way too much for the engine to handle. Yes, the trans was Japanese built. I
am all for American things too but I cannot complain about the trans.
David
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:31:03 -0500
From: "Ronald R. Palmer"
Subject: FTE 97up - RE: Piston slap in 4.6L

Hi All

I looked at the VIN number on my truck and it has neither a W or a 6. The
6th digit on the VIN in my 1998 F150 is a 1. What does this mean? I looked
under the hood and the drivers side valve cover does have a Windsor Label
on it. This has been an excellent engine so far, runs very smooth. I have
about 3,000 miles on it. I have heard no signs of piston slap at nay
operating temp or RPM.

Thanks

Ron



> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:08:21 -0400
> From: daldred epsilon.com
> Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Piston slap in 4.6L?
>
> Just out of curiosity do you know what plant your engine was manufactured
> at. According to a long thread on f150 online. com there are problems(cold
> startup noises) with the 4.6L's manufactured at the Windsor plant, where
> the 5.4's are also manufactured. The ones produced at Romeo appear to be
> fine. Also the thread states that if you count over 6 digits from left to
> right on your VIN if it is a W it was manufactured at Romeo and if it is
a
> 6 it was manufactured at Windsor.
> According to that my 98 f150 SC 4x4 was manufactured at Romeo. I have not
> experienced any problems. Does this all sound correct to you guys.
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:36:44 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: Links

Thanks to all the people who sent in links (so far).
I'm sorry that I can't respond to each on personally
but I received nearly 30 emails with links. I'll
post a listing of all these links when they go up
in the next couple of weeks.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:21:38 EDT
From: FISHNG1 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Running boards or fiberglass steps

I have an ETA of 10/02 for my 99 XLT F-350, supercab, srw, 4x4 PSD and I was
originally considering a full set of one piece flares and running boards
(Ground Effects type) from "Prestigious Industries ." Now I have reconsidered
that approach. I have looked at many trucks on the road and just don't think
that type looks appropriate on a 4x4. I have now chosen to go with wheel
flares by "EGR" and I am going to have them painted either Prairie tan or
maybe a pearl silver color. I am also having the bottom panels of the truck
painted to match the flares, since ford did not offer the tu-tone paint in my
XLT (woodland green) . I ordered my truck without the factory steps and was
thinking of a Nerf bar, but I really don't like those either. I have seen
fiberglass steps on older Ford trucks, but have been unable to get a solid
answer on the availability of them for the 99's. I have seen a set of full
fiberglass running boards by "Owens" on a dually 99 at our local Gig Harbor
Ford dealer and will call them soon to find more info. Anyone ever dealt with....


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