97up-list-digest Friday, July 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 146



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
FTE 97up - (no subject)
Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?
Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
RE: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
Re: FTE 97up - (no subject)
Re: FTE 97up - (no subject)
FTE 97up - 97 F-150 Spare Tire
RE: FTE 97up - (no subject)
FTE 97up - rollpan 99
Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?
Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?
Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?
Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?
Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?
FTE 97up - ADMIN: Server went down
FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?
RE: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:02:48 -0400
From: "Engineering Co-op2, Network (NECOOP2)"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

I am no mechanic and by far no engineer, however if you are tightening your
lug nuts to 105ft/lbs., are you not exceeding the requested 100ft/lb setting
and additional 1/8'' to 1/4'' turn.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Ann Mitchell [SMTP:amitche1 maine.rr.com]
> Sent:Thursday, July 09, 1998 8:09 PM
> To:97up-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject:Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
>
> OK, OK, so Ford says to tighten the lug nut to 100 ft-lbs then another 1/4
> turn or so. Why, would anyone who had the capability to tighten a lug nut
> to 100 ft-lbs then tighten them another 1/4 turn? Why not tighten them to
> say 115 ft-lbs, or 120 ft-lbs, what's this 1/4 turn factor? Are the Ford
> engineers idiots? Or maybe it's the PR folks missing a few cylinders. I'd
> say there's something wrong with this picture. I'm an engineer and I
> don't
> think that the public should be fooling around with a 1/4 turn. I've been
> setting my click torque wrench at 105 ft-lbs and no problems so far.
>
> Steve
> 1998 F150, 4.6L
> 16" Aluminum wheels
> no 1/4 turn for me
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul J. Naas
> To: 97 Ford Enthusiust
> Date: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 7:09 PM
> Subject: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall
>
>
> >I received a letter from Ford on 7-6-98 and they enclosed a sketch
> >showing lug nut tightening sequence (the standard cross tightening
> >method). They said to tighted the nuts to 100 ft/lbs and then an
> >additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn. As stated the dealerships will provide this
> >service for you if you desire. Personally, I don't like to over tighten
> >any lug nuts. It stretches and/or gauls the threads thus ruining the
> >wheel studs and perhaps warping the front rotors. I've been checking my
> >lug nuts (at 100 ft/lbs) on a 4-6 week basis and have always found them
> >tight. Also as stated in previous messages, Ford will send another
> >info letter when the nuts are available. They estimate the 3rd qaurter
> >of 1998 (June, July or August).
> >Keep em tight...
> >
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> >
>
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:04:58 EDT
From: MRoadarDOJ aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - (no subject)

In response to my post about ordering a new F-350 from a dealer 40 minutes out
of town, Jose Fernandez writes:

Product vs. service. Which dealer do you go to for service? I ask because my
plan is to buy product from the dealer with the best price and buy services
from the service department with the best performance. Those two
organizations are not necessarily found together.

My reply:

I intend to use the service department at the dealership where I purchased the
truck. According to earlier posts to this list, Ford reimburses a dealership
for warranty work at a rate well below the service department's normal billing
rates which, in turn, reduces the dealership's incentive to give priority to
warranty work. At the same time, this lower pay rate may increase the
dealership's incentive to cut corners on warranty service. However, if you
purchased your vehicle from that dealership and they know that they can look
forward to a continued relationship with you (including doing non-warranty
work and possibly selling you more vehicles) you are likely to get far better
service and scheduling from that dealership. That common sense approach
aside, there is another reason I'll be using this particular dealership.
Several months ago I was on I-75 in my wife's Ford Taurus and I ran it out of
gas. (Stupid, I know. I have not done that in over twenty years.) I walked
to the nearest ramp and went to the gas station there. The attendant did not
have any gas cans for sale and would not loan me one even though I offered to
pay a deposit so I was stuck. There was a Ford dealership across the street
so I started to walk over there. Before I could get halfway across the lot, a
guy picked me up and asked if I needed help. I explained my problem and he
drove me to the service department where he got a can of gas and was ready to
drive me back to my car. I noticed that he had a new F-350 extended cab on
the lot and commented on it. He offered to give me a ride to my car in the
truck. After he had taken me to the car, put a couple of gallons of gas in
it, and answered my questions about the truck, he would not let me pay for the
gas or otherwise reimburse him for his time and help. I should note here that
he knew that I was from 40 miles out-of-town and really had no reason to
expect to see me again. When my local dealership seemed to be less than
forthcoming, I went back to the guy who had helped me out when I needed it.
Not only did I get the same courteous treatment I had gotten before, we
negotiated a price that saved me almost $2,000 (when you include the lower
price of the vehicle and the lower taxes because of the lower price). Yes, it
will take me an extra 30 minute commute to get to this dealership as opposed
to the local dealership. Shoot, a lot of people will drive that far just to
get to a sale at the mall. That strikes me as a small price to pay. Of
course, I do not have any actual experience with the work coming out of their
service department yet. Should it turn out that the service department is not
up to the standards of service I have received so far, then I will have to
reevaluate my options. Sorry this post is so long. Hope this is of some
help.

/Mark

PS If anyone is interested, I'll be glad to email you the name of the
dealership I'm working with, the name of the guy who helped me, and their
phone number. They're located in Middle Georgia. I'm not giving the name
here because I don't know if that would violate this list's policy on
commercial postings. Ken?
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:10:37 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

I did a lot of looking and comparing because, like you, I didn't want a haf- $$ liner
in my big- $$ truck. I found Lang Protective coatings and really liked them. Their
install procedures are much better, the material is rated at twice the tensile
strength of Rhino linings, and I liked the texture a lot more. Also they use
automotive paint tints, which they claim are much more UV stable than any of it's
competitors. Their prices are much more reasonable as well. The base price here in
Cincy was maybe only $10 less, but that included 12 basic colors (Rhino only offered
4 or 5). For custom colors it was +$50. Rhino wanted something really stupid like
an extra $250 for custom colors. I asked the guy at Rhino why so much, he said they
can't mix their own colors and have to send the request to their factory (in Cali?).
They make a special batch and ship it back.

One last thing, Lang claims (I'm sure it's big $$) that they can do custom color
graphics and designs with there liners.

I'm going for the Lang when I get the extra dough.

Chad

Roy E. Springer wrote:

> Anyone had a Rhino Lining installed?
>
> I'm interested in your experiences, good or bad.
> Especially interested in how long it has been in place.
> I'm concerned about how the polyurethane would hold up to UV exposure and
> hot climate for 10 years.
>
> Thanks in advance, you can reply by email if you like.
>
> Roy



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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:13:41 EDT
From: RAMWORKER aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

Hi List,

Just a note about this lug nut business, Although I'm not a mechanic any more
(been almost 20 years) let's get real about these torque specs. These are not
head or rod bolts. I am NOT disagreeing about the actual spec, just pointing
out that VERY few tire shops use torque wrenches. We always used our impact
wrenches, low air pressure, high air pressure, and wrenches in different
conditions (new vs. old) We didn't have any particular problems, except the
occasional complaint from someone who had to change their own tire that the
lugs were too tight. I have personally removed lug nuts from my wife's car
that were so tight, that it took two of us working on a very good quality
(built in the late fifties, got it from my dad) four way wrench, that we
twisted into a pretzel. The same studs and lug nuts are still on the car,
without problems, years later. The factories know how tire shops work, and
have always allowed for a wide variance. Now, with the introduction of the
forged aluminum wheels, this may have changed. These wheels were just coming
out on the cars when I got out of the mechanic business, and their torque may
be more critical, but I can't imagine why this situation would be radically
different.
I wish I knew what the problem is, if I had a clue, I'd sure let you know.
BTW, if their are any hub caps or other trim screwed onto your wheels, do
yourself a favor and remove those screws ASAP, coat them with anti-seize, and
replace them. As I recall, Ford used a stainless steel screw in the aluminum
wheels to hold on the hubcap without the anti-seize, and after a short time,
electrolysis set in, making them near impossible to remove, we had to drill
out several of them when I was still a mechanic. Just try drilling a hard
screw like that in an aluminum wheel! The drill bit wants to go anywhere BUT
through the screw! Thank god the cap pretty well covered the boo-boos.

Best Regards,
Robert Stout

In a message dated 7/9/98 10:25:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
invesis earthlink.net writes:


The
"turn" criteria makes the problem a greater problem. 360/4 = 90 degrees.

A torque wrench positioned at twelve o'clock would end up at 3 o'clock with a
1/4
turn added to the torque value. IMHO that is a lot of extra torque resulting
in
the addtional force exceeding the studs modulus of elasticity. Or otherwise,
a
stretched stud that will loosen with temperature changes because it would no
longer have the elasticity component that allows the stud to expand and
contract
due to thermal changes, without becoming a loose fastener.

Depending on conditions it is possible to have a 100 lb torque value whithout
having the nut resting on any surface at all. This condition would be
acquired
when galling of the threads took place. For the unwary, they would recognize
the
torque without realizing that the fastener didn't make contact with any
surface
whatsover to exerct a compression force against a contacting surface.

I have some great "reservations" about the TURN vs the inch additional
increment
recommended to be applied to the nut. An eight "inch" additional nut travel
could
make some sense, maybe a quarter inch would be aceptabe too, however a 1/4
turn
surely has to be excessive torque in my book. >>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:44:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: tekneek webtv.net
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

Stop,
Please stop,the lug nut nuttiness.If my info from FoMoCo is correct this
incident involved 70 trucks(f-150) out of hundred of thousands.If my
info is erroneus please forgive me,if not let's change the subject my
e-mail box is bursting w/lugnut stuff

all the best
tek...........99 250 pwerstroke(love it!)

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:03:16 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - 97 truck lug nut recall

At 06:50 PM 7/9/98 -0700, you wrote:
- -snip-
>
>I would like to see the Ford spec but this list is not capable of handling
>attachments, to bad for us because if it could we at least could speak about
>the same data from the same page, so to speak.

Just paste it in as text. And yes, Majordomo can handle attachments.
I've got it set to filter them out most people who attach binaries don't
consider the load this places on a system sending mail out to hundreds of
users.

Ken Payne


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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:11:57 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - (no subject)

At 08:04 AM 7/10/98 EDT, you wrote:
- -snip-
>
>/Mark
>
>PS If anyone is interested, I'll be glad to email you the name of the
>dealership I'm working with, the name of the guy who helped me, and their
>phone number. They're located in Middle Georgia. I'm not giving the name
>here because I don't know if that would violate this list's policy on
>commercial postings. Ken?

Recommendations are welcome. Its when a company blows it own horn
that its a problem. But this is a fine line.

Example:

"My company sells such and such and we have the best prices on the net."

This is clearly commericial. However, our charter does:

"In response to you question about bed liners, our company sells them.
Our web site is...."

Is allowed. Vendor participation is welcomed and useful. However if it stated:

"In response to you question about bed liners, our company sells them.
Our web site is.... We have the best prices, service.... blah blah,
we also sell Gizmos, whizbangs, foobars..."

Is nothing more than a sneaky attempt to get around our policy. Basically,
common sense applies. There's a dealer on this list who is a great example
(I think we all know who I'm talking about). He never talks about the
great deals he has and he's very helpful to list members. It appears he's
built a lot of goodwill and I wouldn't doubt if list members in his area
will buy from him --- I would if I was in his area.

- -Ken


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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:54:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: tekneek webtv.net
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - (no subject)

Ken,
Well put I admire him also,and thank you for explaining the
differance between selling and sharing.
all the best
tek

ps I wrote you concerning my auto related products I would like on your
site please call me at 1800 570 9274 for particulars.

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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:48:40 -0700
From: "joe silk"
Subject: FTE 97up - 97 F-150 Spare Tire

Recently changed out a flat and noticed that the spare tire sidewall(17 inch
wheel) has rubbed against against the spare tire winch frame support. I
have had the truck for 18 months and it has about 17Kmiles on it.
Fortunately the wear didn't affect the tire and I drove it for about 130
miles until I got the other tire fixed at the closest town.
Any comments, suggestions? I think this tire qualifies for a replacement
from Ford.
As a temporarily fix, I have placed an old bicycle tire between the tire and
the frame support.

One other item: Does anyone have a source for a spare tire lock(no cables)
on the 97 F-150.



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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:25:56 -0700
From: "Jose A. Fernandez"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - (no subject)

Thanks for describing your reasons; I didn't think your post was too
long.

The most valuable things that I get out of the Ford list are, of course,
1) things to do and 2) things not to do. What I got out of your post
goes in the "things to do" category: Research the performance of the
local dealers and service departments.

Anyone have a checklist already worked out? Or a pointer to relevant
checklists?

From: MRoadarDOJ aol.com [SMTP:MRoadarDOJ aol.com]
Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 5:05 AM
Subject: FTE 97up - (no subject)

...[omitted by JAF]...

I intend to use the service department at the dealership where I
purchased the truck.

...[omitted by JAF]...

That common sense approach aside, there is another reason I'll be
using this particular dealership.

...[ommitted by JAF]...

Sorry this post is so long. Hope this is of some help.

/Mark
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:41:45 -0500
From: daryl.rue juno.com
Subject: FTE 97up - rollpan 99

Anyone seen a rollpan for the 99 yet? I know lund was supposed to be
introducing one soon. My ARE top, with the walk in door looks pretty
silly without a bumber.

Thanks,

Daryl Rue, Omaha Ne

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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:39:51 -0500
From: daryl.rue juno.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

I got a rhino in my 99, did the underside of all the outside bodypanels
too. They did a great job. I talked to rhino about longitivity, they
said they have had applications in place for (13?) years. I would have
to imagine that the rhino would outlast your vehicle. Especially if you
used 303 on it. I plan on being a beverly hillbilly in my 99 in 2019!
Even if I have to buy a new deisel in 100k.

The colors will require maintenence no matter who you go with. One
reason rhino is higher cost is that they have to buy a quart of pigment,
not paint, and they spray a last layer of uv protective coating at the
end of the job.

Hope it helps,

Daryl Rue

Our local rhino dealer puts of 4 coats for the bed liners, and is tougher
than.... You can't sanblast, hammer it off etc... It will last.
On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:10:37 -0400 Chad Royse
writes:
>I did a lot of looking and comparing because, like you, I didn't want
>a haf- $$ liner
>in my big- $$ truck. I found Lang Protective coatings and really
>liked them. Their
>install procedures are much better, the material is rated at twice the
>tensile
>strength of Rhino linings, and I liked the texture a lot more. Also
>they use
>automotive paint tints, which they claim are much more UV stable than
>any of it's
>competitors. Their prices are much more reasonable as well. The base
>price here in
>Cincy was maybe only $10 less, but that included 12 basic colors
>(Rhino only offered
>4 or 5). For custom colors it was +$50. Rhino wanted something
>really stupid like
>an extra $250 for custom colors. I asked the guy at Rhino why so
>much, he said they
>can't mix their own colors and have to send the request to their
>factory (in Cali?).
>They make a special batch and ship it back.
>
>One last thing, Lang claims (I'm sure it's big $$) that they can do
>custom color
>graphics and designs with there liners.
>
>I'm going for the Lang when I get the extra dough.
>
>Chad
>
>Roy E. Springer wrote:
>
>> Anyone had a Rhino Lining installed?
>>
>> I'm interested in your experiences, good or bad.
>> Especially interested in how long it has been in place.
>> I'm concerned about how the polyurethane would hold up to UV
>exposure and
>> hot climate for 10 years.
>>
>> Thanks in advance, you can reply by email if you like.
>>
>> Roy
>
>
>
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>

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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:17:45 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

Just for clarification: They don't use paint, or paint it. They use the dye's in
automotive paint. Therefore, if they faded... it would be at the same rate as your
vehicle. Also, you can get metallic colors which looked kinda neat. Rhino told me
they couldn't do that.

Don't get offended, it's just my opinion and I am admittedly picky about my vehicles.

One more thing while we're still talking about it, is Lang is the only coating I
found that doesn't have to be trimmed with a razor. Lang's has a longer cure time so
there is time to remove the masking.

Chad

PS Before anyone else gets offended, I am not saying everything else is garbage. Per
the original post, I am merely giving my opinion. Pleas by whatever you feel is the
best. After all, you got to look at it every day! :)

daryl.rue juno.com wrote:
>
> I got a rhino in my 99, did the underside of all the outside bodypanels
> too. They did a great job. I talked to rhino about longitivity, they
> said they have had applications in place for (13?) years. I would have
> to imagine that the rhino would outlast your vehicle. Especially if you
> used 303 on it. I plan on being a beverly hillbilly in my 99 in 2019!
> Even if I have to buy a new deisel in 100k.
>
> The colors will require maintenence no matter who you go with. One
> reason rhino is higher cost is that they have to buy a quart of pigment,
> not paint, and they spray a last layer of uv protective coating at the
> end of the job.
>
> Hope it helps,
>
> Daryl Rue
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:37:26 -0500
From: daryl.rue juno.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

I will not get offended, please keep the same...

First of all, Rhino, in omaha nebraska, uses wire tape. It puts an edge
on it like a chicago cultery. Second, you're paint gets protected about
every 3 weeks(if you are me) with a carnuaba wax that includes uv
blockers which help prevent the uv from damageing the paint(protect all).
You need to either do the same for your pigment died
polyurethane(protect it) or it will fade at a much faster rate. If you
do not want to slip your a off on it, i do not recomend a wax based uv
blocker. 303 would work well though because it is water based, with good
protection. Third, Rhino does offer metallic, that is why it is going to
cost me $200 extra to have the lower approximate 12" done on the outside
of my truck, and my rollpan when I get it. (which by the way I heard
lund has one now.).

Thanks,

Daryl


On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:17:45 -0400 Chad Royse
writes:
>Just for clarification: They don't use paint, or paint it. They use
>the dye's in
>automotive paint. Therefore, if they faded... it would be at the same
>rate as your
>vehicle. Also, you can get metallic colors which looked kinda neat.
>Rhino told me
>they couldn't do that.
>
>Don't get offended, it's just my opinion and I am admittedly picky
>about my vehicles.
>
>One more thing while we're still talking about it, is Lang is the only
>coating I
>found that doesn't have to be trimmed with a razor. Lang's has a
>longer cure time so
>there is time to remove the masking.
>
>Chad
>
>PS Before anyone else gets offended, I am not saying everything else
>is garbage. Per
>the original post, I am merely giving my opinion. Pleas by whatever
>you feel is the
>best. After all, you got to look at it every day! :)
>
>daryl.rue juno.com wrote:
>>
>> I got a rhino in my 99, did the underside of all the outside
>bodypanels
>> too. They did a great job. I talked to rhino about longitivity,
>they
>> said they have had applications in place for (13?) years. I would
>have
>> to imagine that the rhino would outlast your vehicle. Especially if
>you
>> used 303 on it. I plan on being a beverly hillbilly in my 99 in
>2019!
>> Even if I have to buy a new deisel in 100k.
>>
>> The colors will require maintenence no matter who you go with. One
>> reason rhino is higher cost is that they have to buy a quart of
>pigment,
>> not paint, and they spray a last layer of uv protective coating at
>the
>> end of the job.
>>
>> Hope it helps,
>>
>> Daryl Rue
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>

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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:05:10 -0700
From: alanh galaxy.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

Another question about Rhino Liners, or others of that ilk:

Do you put the liner on before or after you install a fifth
wheel hitch?

And another question:

Does it interfere with sliding a fifth wheel hitch on and off?

- ---

Alan Hepburn | |
National Semiconductor | Proud to be part of the |
Santa Clara, Ca | Vast Right Wing Conspiracy |
alanh galaxy.nsc.com | |

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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:17:25 -0500
From: daryl.rue juno.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

you take the reciever off, install the liner, and then put it back on.
And no it does not interfere with the reciever.

Daryl

On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:05:10 -0700 alanh galaxy.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
writes:
>Another question about Rhino Liners, or others of that ilk:
>
>Do you put the liner on before or after you install a fifth
>wheel hitch?
>
>And another question:
>
>Does it interfere with sliding a fifth wheel hitch on and off?
>
>---
>
>Alan Hepburn |
>|
>National Semiconductor | Proud to be part of the
>|
>Santa Clara, Ca | Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
>|
>alanh galaxy.nsc.com |
>|
>
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:59:02 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 97up - ADMIN: Server went down

Our server was down this afternoon for a couple of hours.
If anyone tried posting then, chances are good your post
is lost. Give it an hour or so, if the post doesn't show
up, try again.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:30:05 EDT
From: Rendell8 aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

I had black Rhino lining installed in my '97 F350 long bed in Sep 98. Down to
mexico with camper for five months, leaving my tailgate behind. The difference
between the tailgate (which sat in a garage for five months) and the truck bed
(which saw some sun, but was mainly covered by the camper) is astounding.
Tailgate is shiny, glossy black, truck bed looks like the lining is covered
with a thin salt (whitish) film that does not wash off.
I don't really care about the cosmetics, but if I did would be really
disappointed. Good news is that lining is sticking really well to bed.





In a message dated 98-07-10 06:53:09 EDT, you write:

>
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:36:25 -0700
From: Jay Murphy
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Rhino Lining experiences?

Are you all talking about slide in bed liners or sprayed in liners? I live
in Phoenix and had an "Inyati" brand black polyurethane liner sprayed into
my 97 F150 when it was new a year ago. Although it has faded some with the
summer sun, you might want to check them out. I'm real happy with mine.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com
[mailto:owner-97up-list ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Rendell8 AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, July 10, 1998 3:30 PM....

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