97up-list-digest Wednesday, May 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 095



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - Nerf Bars
Re: FTE 97up - Exhaust Brake for Super Duty
Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Power Stroke & mileage
FTE 97up - Re: The SCOOP on ENGINE and EXHAUST BRAKES
Re: FTE 97up - Extended warranties-Whines
FTE 97up - Ford Website
Re: FTE 97up - Ford Website
FTE 97up - Super Duty Power Stroke & mileage
FTE 97up - Tire to Wheel size??
FTE 97up - Straight talking Ford Dealer

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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:42:42 -0400
From: hunter cyberstreet.com (Michael Kisielewski)
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Nerf Bars

Well I finally did it. I ordered a set of Westin black powder coat
Signature Series nerf bars from Summit Racing for my '97 F-150 4X4. Cost
was $186.39 and with shipping totaled $190.89. They're supposed to be
here Friday, but because of Memorial day could be as late as Monday.
Hopefully I won't have any trouble with the install. If anyone knows
anything that I should be aware of please feel free to e-mail me.

Michael

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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:43:59 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Exhaust Brake for Super Duty

Then it would be an Intake brake or throttle. It really is on the exhaust side.

Sven Setterdahl wrote:
> > I'm saying that exhaust pressure can get high enough to over
> > power the exhaust spring.
> >
>
> But, exhaust brakes are on the intake side of the engine, aren't they? Basically it's like
> having the throttlebody butterflies on a gasser engine.
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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:08:54 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Super Duty Power Stroke & mileage

At 10:51 PM 5/25/98 -0700, you wrote:

>>>>

My new Ford is a SD 550 Crew Cab 4X4 and I am installing a
pickup bed to meet my needs.

Engine 7.3 with 6 speed.I have my own fuel tank with no meter yet, but
the milage is not bad but you have to watch RPM's and speed since the
only gear ratio is 4.88.

Trans gear ratio's and power are awsome. I just installed an air ride
suspention (not air bags) and smoothed out the ride.

so far I can't say enough about this truck. More after bed installation
and some loads are haued,

hopefully next week.

Ford definately had a better idea this time.

If you want more info let me know.

Get a bid from Debbie Brown at Damerow Ford in Beaverton Or. by e-mail if
you want.

No one beat her price on my truck. 6 e-mail bidsin all.


Good luck:


Bob I





Bob, Where did you find Pickup Bed to fit a F550?


Thanks



Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie

Mesa, AZ

1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.

1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.

1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, Camper Special, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box, Style Side.

1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Model 1100 1bbl carb, Oil Bath Air Cleaner, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box Style Side.

My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"
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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:32:27 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: FTE 97up - Re: The SCOOP on ENGINE and EXHAUST BRAKES

Here's the brake scoop!

All engine brakes are devices which control exhaust valve motion on diesel engines. As such,
they mount under the valve cover, above valves and rockers. Specific configurations vary between
engine models. At one extreme are the V-10 engine brakes we make for Mitsubishi engines.

There are two housings for these engines, each with 5 sets of master and slave pistons,
controlling the valves for an entire bank of the engine. Typically, US made diesels are based on
an in-line 6 cylinder configuration. For these we have engine specific designs which are either
2 or 3 housings, controlling 3 or 2 cylinders per housing respectively. For example, a Cummins
M11 engine takes a 2 housing brake kit, each housing has 3 sets of master and slave pistons. A
Cat 3406E engine takes a 3 housing kit, each housing controls two cylinders. On the other
extreme, is the Detroit Diesel 71 and 92 series engines. For these 2-cycle engines, the engine
brake housing controls only one cylinder. For example on the DDC 8V-92 engine, there are 8 engine
brake housings, each with one master and one slave piston. Illustrated parts and installation
manuals for these engine brakes are available for download from the service section of our Web
site. Because Jacobs Engine Brakes are designed for specific engine applications, retarding
performance will vary depending on several factors of the design. The most important factors are
the timing of the valve opening event, compression ratio, and turbo boost. Lets look in detail
at how these factors affect the brake performance. Each time the piston compresses the volume
of the air in the cylinder by 1/2, the pressure doubles. At 1/2 of the starting volume, the
pressure is doubled, at 1/2 of that again, the pressure is quadrupled and so on. A typical diesel
engine has a compression ratio of 15:1. Air enters the cylinder under turbo boost, say for
example 20psi-gage pressure, equivalent to 34psi absolute. At the top of the piston stroke, the
air will occupy 1/15th the original volume, and be at around 510 (34x15) psi absolute pressure.
It takes work to compress this air; the power is supplied by the drive wheels of the vehicle,
through the rear end, transmission, and finally the crank. So now we've absorbed power by
compressing air. Without an engine brake, all the valves remain closed at the top of the
compression stroke, and we start the power stroke. In a no-fuel condition, the 510psi presses
back on the piston and returns most of the power to the drive wheels. With a Jacobs Engine Brake
active, the exhaust valves are opened close to top dead center of the compression stroke. "Pop"
goes the energy stored in the air safely out through the exhaust system. Theoretically, none of
the power is returned to the drive wheels, and the engine is able to provide retarding power for
the vehicle. You can see by the example above, that if your compression ratio is higher, it will
produce a higher absolute pressure, and take more work in doing so. Similarly, if the turbo is
able to give you more boost, you'll get more performance. Finally, if you open much earlier or
later than top dead center, you will not have done as much work in compressing the air in the
cylinder and the brake will be less effective. All of these factors are taken into consideration
when designing a brake for a particular engine. How and when is all of this accomplished?
Typically, under good road conditions, the driver arms the Jake Brake and selects the number of
brake housings to be used with selector switches in the
dash. To activate the brake, two more conditions must be met: clutch is engaged (or automatic
transmission is in lock-up), and no fuel to the engine (foot off the pedal). Under these
conditions, voltage is applied to the engine brake solenoids, and the brake is activated. A
standard technology engine brake consists of a solenoid valve, control valve, and master and
slave pistons. When the brake is activated, the solenoid allows oil to pass to the control
valve. The control valve indexes and the check ball in the control valve is unseated, allowing
oil to the master/slave piston circuit. The oil pushes the master piston out, and when rocker
motion pushes the master piston back, high pressure is created which seats the check ball in the
control valve. Continued rocker motion causes the high-pressure oil to move the slave piston.
The slave piston motion causes the exhaust valves to open. As the rocker moves back down, the
master piston follows, and the slave piston allows the valves to close again, ready for the next
cycle. We would like to open the exhaust valves exactly at top dead center, which would provide
the maximum retarding horsepower. In practice it is necessary to find a cam or rocker motion that
occurs close to top dead center. This motion will be picked up by a master piston and
transmitted through a hydraulic circuit to a slave piston to open the exhaust valve. This is
where the engine specific design comes in. Standard technology Jake Brakes are designed using
injector, exhaust, or intake rockers to provide the master piston with a motion that will cause
the slave piston to open the exhaust valves at the proper time. The most common for Cummins
applications is injector timing, where the master piston rides on the injector rocker adjusting
screw for the same cylinder. On older Cat 3406,3406B and 3406C engines, and Mack E6 and E7, the
slave piston for one cylinder is controlled by a master piston riding on an exhaust valve rocker
of another cylinder. This doesn't provide the best timing, and the hydraulic circuits are longer
and don't respond as well. To get more performance from the old Cats, Jacobs introduced the
Model 349A which uses a complex hydraulic system with trigger valves, check valves, and a high
pressure plenum to get better timing. The new 3406E engines are able to use injector timing
giving better performance. The Mack E-Tech engine utilizes our J-Tech brake which operates on a
lost motion principal with the cam design (a whole other story). By the way, this is where
Jacobs Vehicle System has an advantage over any other engine brake manufacturer. We have allied
ourselves with the Engine OEM's, as their supplier for retarding technology. We get involved with
new engine designs and modifications up front. This allows the co-design of engine and exhaust
brakes for optimum performance and durability, at the best price. How do we measure Retarding
Horsepower? In our labs, two engines are coupled together, a driver, and a test engine. The test
engine is equipped with a brake to be tested, and the driver engine is equipped to measure its
output horsepower. We activate the Jake Brake, and measure the horsepower required to drive the
test engine, and correct for natural retardation and other factors. This gives us a very
accurate value for the retarding produced by the engine brake equipped engine, exactly what you
will see at the input shaft of the transmission. What about Jacobs Exhaust Brakes? Because of the
costs associated with the design, development, and manufacture of engine brakes, they typically
are not available for smaller diesel engines. Most customers with the smaller diesels (under 10
Liter displacement) wouldn't receive the return on investment for such a product. Jacobs answer
is the Jacobs Exhaust Brake. An exhaust brake works by restricting the flow of exhaust gasses
through the exhaust system, when the brake is active. This restriction increases the back
pressure in the engine, and forces the pistons to work against more pressure, thus providing a
retarding effect. This retarding effort is transmitted through the drive-train to the wheels,
helping to slow the vehicle. The exhaust brake is mounted downstream of the turbocharger, and
consists of an air operated butterfly valve. The Jacobs Exhaust Brake is a fail-safe device,
with a return spring that will open the valve if air pressure is lost. In order to control the
amount of back pressure created to within engine and turbo specifications, a pre-sized orifice is
machined into the butterfly plate. Jacobs works closely with the engine manufacturer to size
this orifice for maximum performance and engine reliability. How are these systems controlled?
Both engine and exhaust brakes are controlled in a similar fashion. On mechanical engines, the
control system consists of dash mounted toggle switches, a clutch switch, and a fuel pump
switch. If the vehicle has an automatic transmission, the clutch switch is often replaced by a
pressure switch to detect torque converter lock-up. With this control system, the driver arms the
retarder by selecting a retarding level with the dash switches. When the driver removes their
foot from the throttle, and leaves the clutch engaged, the fuel pump switch closes, and power is
fed to the engine brake solenoids (located in the engine brake housings). On electronic engines,
the functions of the clutch and throttle switches are performed by the engine electronic control
unit. The driver still has to arm the retarder, and select a level of retarding on these systems.
If the vehicle is equipped with ABS brakes, or Cruise Control, these systems are usually set-up
to work with the retarder. For example, f the ABS detects wheel skid, it will temporarily
disable the engine brake. By selecting the level of retarding (with either a 2 or 3 position
switch), the driver is selecting the number of engine brake housings that will be used. On a 3
housing system, the driver is able to select retarding with either 2, 4, or 6 cylinders for
better control of the retarding power that will be applied.







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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:40:26 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Extended warranties-Whines

Extended warranties are a good deal for some people. I prefer to look at
them as insurance. If you are making payments that make your budget tight I
would have the warranty extended to the end of your financing term. As for
who to buy from I sell both Ford and Universal. Both have advantages.

Price- Ford gets clobbered in this market. Even cost to cost the Ford plan
is much more money.

Coverage- These vary depending on what plan but are competitive.

Deductible- Equivalent except the non-Ford companies usually waive $50 of
the deductible (usually $100) at the selling dealer.

Pre-Approval- Yes the aftermarket places require you call in for a pre
approval before doing the work. But Suprise so does Ford. And Ford is much
more difficult to deal with than other companies.

Dealer standpoint- I would MUCH MUCH rather work on a truck with a
aftermarket warranty on it. Ford pays us by their time standards (about the
minimum it takes to do things!) and cost on parts. Most other companies use
Chilton or Motor times (much better, makes the mechanic happier because he
can make money by beating time which usually means you get better service)
and retail on parts. So I can make money doing repairs.

Traveling problems- This is the tricky part. If someone comes in with a
Ford warranty, I'm going to loose money (or make very little) by fixing
their vehicle. I'm not going to be very eager to do this (we usually make
time, but some dealers may see things differently) were as if I'm going to
make full book time and list on parts, I would jump up and down to get you
back on the road. However if it is a company I am nervous that I'll get
paid by, I might want you to pay me and then get reimbursed by the company.
This is the downfall to most non-Ford extended warranties. However, if the
Ford dealer can't get you in and a local service station can fix your
problem the non-Ford companies will pay any repair shop to do the work.
Ford won't do this.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Ford Mercury
Union, IA 50258

- -----Original Message-----
From: George Jeffers
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 2:47 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Extended warranties-Whines


>
>WiNK wrote
>
>"The warranties are questionable.
>If a seal goes and is not covered, they will not honor the warranty. Now
>you have to think about that part of the deal because an engine failure
>could cause a seal to go out. The ole "chicken or egg" first argument.
>This argument allows the contract issuer to frustrate the filing of
>legitimate claims. "
>
>I can't speak for other states, but in California this looks like the
>doctrine of "concurrent causation" and they would not be allowed to
dishonor
>the warrenty.
>
>These warrenties are insurance contracts and goverened by the state
>department of insurance. If you are not happy, file a complaint with your
>state Department of Insurance.
>
>BTW, I am not advocating extended warrenties (they have a lot of fat in
>their pricing), but if you have one, you should be aware of where to go if
>your dissatisfied.
>
>George Jeffers


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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 16:30:08 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: FTE 97up - Ford Website

A warning about the Shopping on line feature on the Ford Website. I had a
customer submit Credit applications four or five times in a few days. This
is no big deal on the get a quote. They also sent them to Ford Credit for
approval. When they finally decided what to get They could only get
approved at level 1 (9.15%) because of all the applications made it look
strange on their credit report. If they had only done it once they would
have been level 0 (8.65% usually upgradeable to as low as 7.75%). So be
careful when using these online shopping features as they can do damage to
your credit report.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.


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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:36:40 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Ford Website

At 04:30 PM 5/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>A warning about the Shopping on line feature on the Ford Website. I had a
>customer submit Credit applications four or five times in a few days. This
>is no big deal on the get a quote. They also sent them to Ford Credit for
>approval. When they finally decided what to get They could only get
>approved at level 1 (9.15%) because of all the applications made it look
>strange on their credit report. If they had only done it once they would
>have been level 0 (8.65% usually upgradeable to as low as 7.75%). So be
>careful when using these online shopping features as they can do damage to
>your credit report.
>
>Nathan Bernard
>Union Auto, Inc.
>
>

Not only that, but each time your credit is pulled, your credit
score at the bureau goes down! I know about this because I
write credit programs and the test cases we get from the different
bureaus show this behavior.

Ken


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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:53:48 -0500
From: "Randy Robb"
Subject: FTE 97up - Super Duty Power Stroke & mileage

Bob, I'm looking for a truck simular to yours, or the F-650 which should be
available next year.
What/Who's air ride suspension did you put on the truck?

Thanks,
Randy rjrobb ameritech.net

>>My new Ford is a SD 550 Crew Cab 4X4 and I am installing a pickup bed
>>to meet my needs.
>>Engine 7.3 with 6 speed.I have my own fuel tank with no meter yet,
>>but the milage is not bad but you have to watch RPM's and speed since the
>>only gear ratio is 4.88.
>>Trans gear ratio's and power are awsome. I just installed an air ride
>>suspention (not air bags) and smoothed out the ride.


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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:59 -0500
From: Michael Ruth
Subject: FTE 97up - Tire to Wheel size??

I have a 99 Super Duty Lariat with the largest tire size available. The
wheel is the deluxe aluminum wheel. What is the LARGEST possible size
to go on that wheel? I would like to put BFG Mud-Terrains on them. Can
anyone help? I am also considering what is safe also. I would like to
do it right, while going larger than what I have now. Responses may be
offlist at
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Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:46:46 EDT
From: SSeeplane aol.com
Subject: FTE 97up - Straight talking Ford Dealer

Taking the advice some update list participants I connected with Jim Isbell
Ford in Hennessey, OK (website www.isbellford.com). Made a competitive quote.
No BS. Ordered a Silver '98 F-150 4.6L Longbed SpaceCab. Got 19mpg on the
drive back to MS. Only wish now I had gotten the automatic instead of the
manual tranmission, since the auto is rated for nearly double the trailer
weight towing capacity. Should have read the manual BEFORE ordering....
..LOL. Truck runs great after 800 miles...and the lug nuts haven't fallen
off...... yet.

Steve
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