97up-list-digest Friday, May 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 090



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1997 and Newer Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 97up - Upgrade for 96 Stroker
Re: FTE 97up - Exhaust Brake for Super Duty
Re: FTE 97up - Upgrade for 96 Stroker
FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking
Re: FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking
Re: FTE 97up - Exhaust Brake for Super Duty
FTE 97up - Break-In Period for the Super Duty F350
RE: FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking
Re: FTE 97up - Break-In Period for the Super Duty F350
Re: FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking
Re: FTE 97up - Break-In Period for the Super Duty F350
Re: FTE 97up - Break-In Period for the Super Duty F350
FTE 97up - more on diesel break in period
FTE 97up - Extended warranties-Whines

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:15:53 -0500
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Upgrade for 96 Stroker

The new intercooler would be too much work to try to fit to a 97 or older
Power Stroke. The 99 uses different sensors, turbo, wiring, injectors and
many other small modifications that help its power and drivability. Banks
has an intercooler available that is more efficient than the factory one and
would fit right on a 96. I would also recommend the computer chip, these
(on the Power Stroke) make a huge difference in power. From what I've heard
you don't need the performance exhaust as it doesn't seem to help any. Also
if doing any changes I would STRONGLY recommend putting in a turbo boost
gauge and a pyrometer.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc.
Union, IA 50258

- -----Original Message-----
From: BigFords1
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 11:40 PM
Subject: FTE 97up - Upgrade for 96 Stroker


>My friends Grandpa just died and left him a brand new F-350 Super Duty
Power
>Stroke. But he sold it because the bills were to much for him. He also
has a
>96 Power Stroke. He wants me to find out if he could upgrade it to be as
good
>as the new diesel. He wants to put the new intercooler and turbo in the
old
>engine. Is it possible? If so, what needs to be done? Thanks.
>
>
> David


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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:46:47 -0400
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Exhaust Brake for Super Duty

You're right, under normal circumstances. But if there's enough back pressure to
override the exhaust springs, then they will open. Ohhh... wait a minute. I see
what you thought I said. Did I say that right?

I wasn't saying (or didn't mean to make sound) that the exhaust springs were opening
the exhaust valve. I'm saying that exhaust pressure can get high enough to over
power the exhaust spring.

WiNk wrote:
>
> chad,
> One of us is backwards here. The CAM pushes the valve open, not the spring. The valve
> spring CLOSES the valve. What am I missing?
>
> Chad Royse wrote:
>
> > The exhaust valve springs have a lot to do with it. If the back pressure from the
> > exhaust brake is greater than the exhaust springs, then when the piston is in the
> > intake stroke, it will push open the valve and back flow exhaust gasses into the
> > cylinder. You don't want this.
> >
> > Why would it ever feed back through the intake valves?
> >
> > Chad
> >
> > WiNk wrote:
> > >
> > > When the both valves are closed the valve springs have nothing to do with the back
> > > pressure. The pressure is in the cylinder and not on the valve spring side of the
> > > force. Preventing the exhaust from exiting would increase cylinder pressure when
> > > both valves are closed. Also you have to consider that the back pressure could
> > > feed back through the intake valves. Am I missing something here?
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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:59:42 EDT
From: RAMWORKER
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Upgrade for 96 Stroker

Hi David,

Check out http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.getpower.com, he'll never come in second to a Cummins,
maybe not even mine! :)

Best Regards,
Robert Stout

In a message dated 5/20/98 11:30:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
BigFords1 aol.com writes:


Power
Stroke. But he sold it because the bills were to much for him. He also has
a
96 Power Stroke. He wants me to find out if he could upgrade it to be as
good
as the new diesel. He wants to put the new intercooler and turbo in the old
engine. Is it possible? If so, what needs to be done? Thanks. >>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:08:28 -0700
From: "Jose A. Fernandez"
Subject: FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking

There are excellent writeups of engine and exhaust braking at
WWW.JAKEBRAKE.COM, the Jacobs company.

In a netshell, here's what I got out of the Jacobs writeups:

Exhaust braking works by restricting the flow of exhaust gases. The
restriction increases the exhaust manifold pressure, which increases the
pressure on each piston during its exhaust stroke, which slows down the
engine.

Engine braking works by momentarily opening the exhaust valve at the top
of a piston's compression stroke. This releases the energy stored in
the air compressed by the compression stroke, which would otherwise be
mostly available on the power stroke. The engine slows down by spending
its energy compressing air.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:27:31 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking

This makes some sense. The exhaust stroke is similar to the compression
stroke but with an open exhaust valve to allow the exhiting of exhaust
gases. If the exhaust port is restricted it is essentially a compression
stroke, which will SLOW the vehicle down because the piston has no
explosive energy to drive it down. Quite the contrary occurs, the
restricted exhaust stroke acts like an air compressor attempting to resist
the piston UPSWING on the exhaust stroke.Keep in mind the cam shaft and
intake valve actions.

Opening an exhaust valve at the top of the compression stroke is another
????? How does one accomplish this feat when the valve is up against a cam
shaft and closed. Are you saying that we variable "valve timing"?

I'm confused.



Jose A. Fernandez wrote:

> There are excellent writeups of engine and exhaust braking at
> WWW.JAKEBRAKE.COM, the Jacobs company.
>
> In a netshell, here's what I got out of the Jacobs writeups:
>
> Exhaust braking works by restricting the flow of exhaust gases. The
> restriction increases the exhaust manifold pressure, which increases the
> pressure on each piston during its exhaust stroke, which slows down the
> engine.
>
> Engine braking works by momentarily opening the exhaust valve at the top
> of a piston's compression stroke. This releases the energy stored in
> the air compressed by the compression stroke, which would otherwise be
> mostly available on the power stroke. The engine slows down by spending
> its energy compressing air.
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
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> =======================================================================





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:15:48 -0700
From: WiNk
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Exhaust Brake for Super Duty

Chad,

Cylinder "compression" occurs with both valves closed. There's some
overlap in the valve
timing sequence on some engines. With the exhaust valve closed while on
the intake piston
stroke with an open intake valve we would suck air and fuel into the
cylinder. Then the
intake valve closes on the upstroke allowing the gases to be compressed
and fired by the
plug. The mixture explosion drives the piston down, while both exhaust
and intake valves are
closed.

Nuff of that sequence.
Now for the exhaust brake! Are you saying that the "exhaust brake"
somehow closes the air
intake path thus braking the vehicle by creating a vacuum on piston
during the intake downstroke? If this
is the case then I can see that the vacuum caused by closing the air
intake path would
probably work. However, I see fuel without air entering the cylinder
from the carburetor pump. A downdraft
carburetor creates a vacuum at the gas jets, causing a sucking of the
gas into the high
velocity air stream to be fed to the cylinder.

I'm just a bit puzzled over whether you are saying that cynlinder
vacuum, vice cylinder pressure
is used as the "exhaust brake". If your timing cylce view is from the
vacuum side then the
valve springs would come into play, however the only way that a vacuum
could be achieved is by closing the air intake or having both valves
closed on a downstroke of the compression cycle. If on the downstroke of
a compression cycle with valves and air intake closed one would get a
vacuum on the valves thus bringing valve spring tension into play.
Then I wonder about sucking oil into the cylinder with the air intake to
the cylinder shut off.

I don't think that "vacuum" is the mechanism that is used as the exhaust
brake enabler, though I don't know for sure because I haven't looked
into the exhaust brake theory.







Chad Royse wrote:

> You're right, under normal circumstances. But if there's enough back pressure to
> override the exhaust springs, then they will open. Ohhh... wait a minute. I see
> what you thought I said. Did I say that right?
>
> I wasn't saying (or didn't mean to make sound) that the exhaust springs were opening
> the exhaust valve. I'm saying that exhaust pressure can get high enough to over
> power the exhaust spring.
>
> WiNk wrote:
> >
> > chad,
> > One of us is backwards here. The CAM pushes the valve open, not the spring. The valve
> > spring CLOSES the valve. What am I missing?
> >
> > Chad Royse wrote:
> >
> > > The exhaust valve springs have a lot to do with it. If the back pressure from the
> > > exhaust brake is greater than the exhaust springs, then when the piston is in the
> > > intake stroke, it will push open the valve and back flow exhaust gasses into the
> > > cylinder. You don't want this.
> > >
> > > Why would it ever feed back through the intake valves?
> > >
> > > Chad
> > >
> > > WiNk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > When the both valves are closed the valve springs have nothing to do with the back
> > > > pressure. The pressure is in the cylinder and not on the valve spring side of the
> > > > force. Preventing the exhaust from exiting would increase cylinder pressure when
> > > > both valves are closed. Also you have to consider that the back pressure could
> > > > feed back through the intake valves. Am I missing something here?
> = Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
> Send posts to: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
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> =======================================================================

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:17:57 -0400
From: "jim schang"
Subject: FTE 97up - Break-In Period for the Super Duty F350

I will be picking up my new Super Duty F350 Power Stroke in June and then
towing a fifth wheel home, from Kansas to Florida, about 1300 miles. What,
if any, break-in procedure should I follow prior to making the trip home?
Should I put some easy miles on first without the trailer, change the oil
etc. and then strike out for home? If so how many miles?
Any insight would be appreciated.

jim

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:44:59 -0700
From: "Jose A. Fernandez"
Subject: RE: FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking

SIDE NOTE: Jacobs' WEB page(s) are really cool; they provide some of
their parts and application guides on line! Wouldn't it be nice of
all the {Chevy, Ford, Dodge, ...} manufacturers did the same? You
could even print a new copy of the page that you just dropped into
that big pan of solvent!

One of Jacbos' on-line parts guides, 018060.PDF, shows how their Model
680A product attaches to the Mack E7 engine. This particular Jacobs
product mates to the top of the engine and has little plungers for
actuating the exhaust valves. Unfortunately, the installation manual is
not on line, but it doesn't look like anything needs to be done to the
head.

The cam shaft, arms, etc., operate normally whether the brake is
activated or not. When brake is activated, plungers depress the exhaust
valves just before TDC, without interfering with the normal operation of
the valve arms or cam shaft.

-----Original Message-----
From: WiNk [SMTP:invesys sprintmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 1:28 PM
To: 97up-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking

This makes some sense. The exhaust stroke is similar to the
compression stroke but with an open exhaust valve to allow the
exhiting of exhaust gases. If the exhaust port is restricted it is
essentially a compression stroke, which will SLOW the vehicle down
because the piston has no explosive energy to drive it down. Quite
the contrary occurs, the restricted exhaust stroke acts like an air
compressor attempting to resist the piston UPSWING on the exhaust
stroke.Keep in mind the cam shaft and intake valve actions.

Opening an exhaust valve at the top of the compression stroke is
another ????? How does one accomplish this feat when the valve is
up against a cam shaft and closed. Are you saying that we variable
"valve timing"?

I'm confused.

Jose A. Fernandez wrote:

> There are excellent writeups of engine and exhaust braking at
> WWW.JAKEBRAKE.COM, the Jacobs company.
>
> In a netshell, here's what I got out of the Jacobs writeups:
>
> Exhaust braking works by restricting the flow of exhaust
> gases. The restriction increases the exhaust manifold
> pressure, which increases the pressure on each piston during
> its exhaust stroke, which slows down the engine.
>
> Engine braking works by momentarily opening the exhaust valve
> at the top of a piston's compression stroke. This releases
> the energy stored in the air compressed by the compression
> stroke, which would otherwise be mostly available on the power
> stroke. The engine slows down by spending its energy
> compressing air.
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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:58:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph L. Casey"
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Break-In Period for the Super Duty F350

I picked up a new 1999 PowerStroke March 5th. I drove about 800 miles at
changing and a variety of speeds before towing anything. I changed
oil/filter somewhere around 850 miles. I then (after I put the new oil in!)
pulled a 14,000 lb 5th Wheel from Chicago to New Orleans and back.

I think I followed the suggestions for break-in procedure, though I haven't
read them since then and don't remember exactly what was said.

The next oil change was a touch early; I changed at 3658 miles, or about
2788 miles after the first change.

The truck has not blown up yet; and, I doubt if it is broken in yet.

Fuel mileage, when not towing, has begun to improve. I drove 400 miles when
not towing--1/2 highway and 1/2 city--and, after filling fuel carefully, I
calculated the mpg at 15.8.

The miles per gallon when towing was about 8.55 over 2400 miles--all towing
and at about 60-65 miles per hour.

This weekends's 400 mile trip will be the first with a pyrometer, boost and
trans temp gauge.

For the first 20 miles when towing the pyrometer is at about 700 degrees
(4-450 when not towing), the boost might be 10-14 (quite low when not
towing), and the trans temp hardly moved--perhaps around 150-155 degrees
max. But, that is very few miles (20 miles) to form any observations worth
applying to a 400 mile trip. I am curious how the gauges will read when I
hit some Colorado "hills."

I'll do about 400 miles this weekend; maybe I'll know more then.


At 06:17 PM 5/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I will be picking up my new Super Duty F350 Power Stroke in June and then
>towing a fifth wheel home, from Kansas to Florida, about 1300 miles. What,
>if any, break-in procedure should I follow prior to making the trip home?
>Should I put some easy miles on first without the trailer, change the oil
>etc. and then strike out for home? If so how many miles?
>Any insight would be appreciated.
>
>jim
>
>= Ford Truck Enthusiasts ==============================================
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>=======================================================================
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:11:27 EDT
From: John941
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Engine and exhaust braking

I don't believe that you can use the Jake brake in the powerstroke-only the
Cummins. You need to contact them directly
John
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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:25:13 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Break-In Period for the Super Duty F350

At 06:17 PM 5/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I will be picking up my new Super Duty F350 Power Stroke in June and then
>towing a fifth wheel home, from Kansas to Florida, about 1300 miles. What,
>if any, break-in procedure should I follow prior to making the trip home?
>Should I put some easy miles on first without the trailer, change the oil
>etc. and then strike out for home? If so how many miles?
>Any insight would be appreciated.
>
>jim
>

You should be okay as long as you don't keep a constant engine speed
and give the engine plenty of opportunities to work through the gears.
I would, however, give it at least a good 100 miles, if not more,
while in Florida without the trailer. Don't change the oil until you
hit the recommended first change interval, the engine won't "seat"
correctly and you may end up with an oil burner for the remainder of
the engine's life. This isn't common with today's engines but it does
happen.

Ken Payne

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:06:05 EDT
From: John941
Subject: Re: FTE 97up - Break-In Period for the Super Duty F350

Jim:
I asked basically the same question about a month ago and I was told that the
psd does not need to be broken in before pulling a heavy load. I, however,
have been in the rv business for 28 years and with gas we always went by the
rule that you need 1,000 miles before really maxing out the vehicle.
Personally, I would error on the cautious side.
John
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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:31:27 -0500
From: "Roy E. Springer"
Subject: FTE 97up - more on diesel break in period

I posted the following on May 4th, didn't get any responses.
Wasn't sure if this was old topic, so I went and read a bunch of the
archives, didn't uncover anything so far.
I've never owned a diesel before, wondering if there are any special things
to know in addition to RTFM. (F=Ford)
I've seen the use of special light break in oils in motorcycles, for
example. Very important to change it at 1000km.

>In addition to instructions given in owner's manuals, I've been told the
>following about breaking in gas engines:
>
>1. don't be excessively easy on it
>2. don't be excessively hard on it
>3. vary the engine speeds and loads continuously, avoid fixed rpm
>4. avoid lugging at low rpm or using the highest rpm range
>5. gradually increase maximum rpm used over break-in period
>6. change oil and filter at 500 or 1000 miles (some use break-in oil)
>7. manufacturers are working in attempt to make the above unnecessary
>
>Does the above hold for the Ford turbodiesel, specifically the new
>intercooled 7.3?
>I have a 99 on order and would appreciate any information, opinions or
>suggestions.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Roy

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:50:41 -0600
From: pmeanea
Subject: FTE 97up - Extended warranties-Whines

I have been subscribed to the list for several weeks now and find the
information and posts quite useful.
I am wondering how many of you are buying extended warranties for your
new Ford Pickups? Seems to me that with all the electronic stuff on the
new vehicles that ONE major repair after factory warranty period would
pay for it.
Has anyone heard of, or had experience with WARRANTY GOLD program?
(good or bad)
I recently bought 97 F-150 ext cab 4X4 loaded, with 5.4 engine. I love
it so far. Haven't had any wheels fall off yet(recal) and the only
whine I have heard is from me when I look at the payment book!....

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