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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

fordtrucks80up-digest Digest Volume 97 : Issue 39

Today's Topics:

Re: HELP [Don Grossman ]
FW: Factory Orders [Brian Pynn ]
91' F150 Front Coils ["Justin Ryan" ]
Larry Smeins [ ]
Re: '91 Explorer Shakes [toerne juno.com ]
PowerStroke: Axle Ratios ["John D. Bowne"
Re: [Joe Garza ]
Re: K&N Filter [ksbdj00 tamuk.edu (Johnson Bradford]
RE: '86 oil leak?? [jlester naxs.com (Jason Lester) ]
Re: PowerStroke: Axle Ratios ["Justin Ryan" ]
Re: mo' power :) [Dave McDonald ]
Re: PowerStroke: Axle Ratios ["John D. Bowne"
Re: PowerStroke: Axle Ratios [Jay Chlebowski ]
IMPORTANT ADMIN NEWS, PLEASE READ [Ken Payne ]

Administrivia:

____________________________________________________________________
Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
For help send subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks80up-digest-request lofcom.com
Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
____________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:12:08 +0000
From: Don Grossman
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: Re: HELP
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Brian3E aol.com wrote:
>
> A couple of years back I bought a '86 F150 Supercab 4X4 5.0L, AT (with OD)
> which had evidently been bought with a camper package but nothing special for
> towing heavy loads. Now I want to tow a 27' fifth wheel (about 4500-4900 lbs
> unloaded) and figure that I need to do some additional work. I think that my
> springs and shocks are OK but plan to put in a heavy duty radiator and an
> auxilliary transmission oil cooler.
>
> 1. Should I put on some provision for engine oil cooling?
> 2. According to the Haynes book (repair manual) there seems to be two
> options for radiator fans: A five blade with clutch (which I have-my cluch
> has an exposed spring in front) and a seven bladed fan which is a direct
> drive off the fan pulley. a) Is either adequate? b) Is the seven blade
> better even though it may cost me mileage?
> 3. I put in a K&N filter last week which seems give me a little more power.
> I saw someone else talking about a replacement air box in addition to the
> K&N filter. Where can I get more information on this?
> 4. I am considering upgrading the exhaust system to a high flow catalytic
> converter and muffler. Do you think that this will help give me a few more
> horsepower?
> 5. Even though the Ford owners' manual indicates the truck can hack it, do
> you think that I'm pushing its capabilities too much?

If you want to drive comfortably I would say you are pushing it just a
little. you will spend lots of time watching your gages and speed.
Also doing some manual shifting on hills and stuff.

I have seen the 302 move this amount of load and it was screaming all
the way up the hill. I here you talking power, Power, POWER, but
nothing about the condition of the tranny or the brakes or
transfercase. Anything extra you can do for cooling, go for it, but
make sure you get rid of any 11year old gear lube, and change your
t-case fluid and top it off.

You might want to check the toung weight of the trailer. If it's more
than 500 or 800 lbs you might want to consider some load springs.
Remember all the weight is going to be behind the rear axle and will
cause the front end to pick up a little reduceing the weight on the
steertires. The can cause a reduction in steering response on wet
roads. The supercab will help offset this a little.
> Thanks in Advance!

--
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net

The scene;

Bunch of NASA guys looking at TV monitor.

"Look, A ROCK!"


63 Ford F-250 4x4 67' 390, t-98, Spicer 24, Dana 60, Dana 44

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 08:21:14 -0700
From: Brian Pynn
To: "'fordtrucks80up lofcom.com'"
Subject: FW: Factory Orders
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain

> ----------
> From: Ken Payne[SMTP:kpayne mindspring.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 1997 9:33 PM
> To: Brian Pynn
> Subject: Re: Factory Orders
>
> At 11:34 AM 7/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Anybody have any nightmare stories about factory order wait-time. I
> was
> >told my Ranger would be ready in 4-6 weeks when I ordered it the
> first
> >week of June. It's now been 5 weeks and they haven't even slated a
> date
> >to build it yet! I love the truck and await its arrival impatiently!
>
> Woops!
>
> You sent this to my personal email box rather than to the list.
>
> -Ken
> List Administrator, 1967 Ford F100, 390FE V8
> Our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
> fordtrucks lofcom.com is the 1979 and older truck list,
> fordtrucks80up lofcom.com is the 1980 and newer truck list..
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:03:43 -0500
From: "Justin Ryan"
To:
Subject: 91' F150 Front Coils
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

As the years go by I have noticed that the front end of my F150SC is
getting closer to the ground. Now If I wanted a Concrete Sled I wouldn't
mind, but since I cannot stand lowered full-size pick-ups ( ala Chebbies),
I need to get this problem fixed! I have been looking through Four Wheeler
Magazine at some of the ads and I notice that Superlift offers Coils for
the front that increase ride height by 2". Would this be a good remedy for
my problem. Btw will be getting the full Polyurethane Bushing kit for the
front, too!

Thanks
"lowrider"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:02:06 -0600
From: Larry Smeins
To: "'jlester naxs.com'"
Cc: "'FordTrucks'"
Subject:
Message-Id:

Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:38:48 -0400
>From: jlester naxs.com (Jason Lester)
>To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
>Subject: F-350 Extended Cab?
>Message-Id:
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I'm considering purchasing a new Ford F-350 Powerstroke truck in the
next
>few months. My biggest problem is that Ford doesn't make a 1-ton
extended
>cab, only crew-cabs. Does anyone know if they plan on making the
extended
>cab available on F-350s when the new models come out? While we're on
the
>subject, does anyone know if the restyled F-250HD and F-350 will be
>available for '98?

>Thanks,
>Jason

Jason,
It surprises me that you can't get a F-350 supercab. I've seen several
that were built in the last couple of years. I guess Ford in their
great marketing wisdom keeps changing what they will sell. My question
is why a 350? The F-250 HD has a GVWR within a couple hundred pounds of
the single rear wheel F-350. If you want duals or feel you really need
a solid front axle then a 350 is the right choice. I opted for a F250
supercab Powerstroke because: It would carry virtually the same load as
a 350, I didn't want duals, The 250 cost less money, The 250 was much
more comfortable for backroad driving, Fords old independent front
suspension is plenty strong for anything short of very serious
offroading. Just my opinion.

Larry
If you don't care where you are, you ain't lost.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:11:16 EDT
From: toerne juno.com
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: Re: '91 Explorer Shakes
Message-ID:

Ford knows they have a problem but are not addressing any customer
satisfaction issues with a reasonable or a shared cost.
Ask your Ford dealer for a copy of Technical Service bulletin 96-4-15 for
'93 and '94 4-door Explorers, TSB 96-4-16 for a '91 or '92 4 door, and
TSB for '91 to '94 2 doors. The modification kit (or repair as Ford
calls it) consists of two new motor mounts, and a transverse shock
absorber with mounting brackets that mount to the diff housing and the
frame. I started to take my case to Ford arbitration, but decided to do
some junkyard modifications using parts from a late model Explorer.

Rob
'91 EB Explorer with the shakes (soon to be traded for a Dodge Durango)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:24:05 -0700
From: "John D. Bowne"
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: PowerStroke: Axle Ratios
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Howdy,

I think that this was recently discussed here, but I, unfortunately, wasn't
really paying much attention. Sorry.

I am looking at ordering a F350 PowerStroke 4WD CrewCab and seem to have
resolved most of the option issues, but there is still one that has got me
stumped.

I'm mainly looking at fuel mileage, rather than raw towing capacity. I
would also like to have a limited slip rear axle, mainly for snow/dirt
traction. I'm looking at a Auto transmission, but I'm not sure whether the
4.10 or the 3.55 is the proper setup.

The reason that I am worried, is that I have a '90 F250 4WD SuperCab with a
5.8l, and a 5 speed manual, this has a 3.55 axle set. To say that this
truck won't get out of its own way is charitable at best. In addition, the
gas mileage has been pretty poor, on a very gentle (easy on the gas) long
trip the mileage might, might, get to 14 mpg. Usually, its closer to 10-11.
When I bought the truck (used), I thought that this axle/tranny setup would
be a good setup.

What I really don't want to do is to specify a replica of this problem. The
local dealers all seem to have units with 4.10's on the floor (yard), but
they say that most buyers of the F350, want the highest possible towing
capacity, hence the 4.10's.

Most of my driving in the lower elevations around Portland Or. However, I
recently bought a bunch of land in Montana, and the ability to comfortably
and efficiently travel to 6000 ft with a decent (2-3000 lbs) trailer would
be a real stong plus.

Sorry about the length of the post, but I want to be right about this.

Thanks in advance for your valued input....

johnbo



John D. Bowne - Cornelius, OR
John.D.Bowne tek.com
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Stolen .Sig Line: |
| "Salad is not food. Salad is what food eats" |
| Corollary : |
| "If animals weren't meant to be eaten, |
| they wouldn't be made out of meat." |
|-----------------------------------------------|
| 2 Wheeled Toys 4 Wheeled Toys |
|-----------------------------------------------|
| '89 BMW K100RS '93 BMW 325i |
| '81 Honda XR250R '90 Ford F250 4x4 |
| '86 Yamaha Moto 4 |
+-----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:27:41 -0600
From: Joe Garza
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
CC: "'jlester naxs.com'"
Subject: Re:
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Larry Smeins wrote:
>
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:38:48 -0400
> >From: jlester naxs.com (Jason Lester)
> >To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
> >Subject: F-350 Extended Cab?
> >Message-Id:
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >I'm considering purchasing a new Ford F-350 Powerstroke truck in the
> next
> >few months. My biggest problem is that Ford doesn't make a 1-ton
> extended
> >cab, only crew-cabs. Does anyone know if they plan on making the
> extended
> >cab available on F-350s when the new models come out? While we're on
> the
> >subject, does anyone know if the restyled F-250HD and F-350 will be
> >available for '98?
>
> >Thanks,
> >Jason
>
> Jason,
> It surprises me that you can't get a F-350 supercab. I've seen several
> that were built in the last couple of years. I guess Ford in their
> great marketing wisdom keeps changing what they will sell. My question
> is why a 350? The F-250 HD has a GVWR within a couple hundred pounds of
> the single rear wheel F-350. If you want duals or feel you really need
> a solid front axle then a 350 is the right choice. I opted for a F250
> supercab Powerstroke because: It would carry virtually the same load as
> a 350, I didn't want duals, The 250 cost less money, The 250 was much
> more comfortable for backroad driving, Fords old independent front
> suspension is plenty strong for anything short of very serious
> offroading. Just my opinion.
>
> Larry
> If you don't care where you are, you ain't lost.
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks80up-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
Actually, the F250 is already restyled as a '97 model. The F250HD is the
old style. Ford distiguishes the old style with an 'HD' designation.
Ford, for some reason, is selling them concurrently. Hope this helps.

Joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:47:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: ksbdj00 tamuk.edu (Johnson Bradford Durkee)
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: Re: K&N Filter
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text

>
> I have been reading a lot about the K&N filter on this list. Where do you
> get it? Would it fit a '94 Econoline six?
>
>
>
> Charles Cohn, chasmagc mindspring.com
> 6311 Mark Trail, Austell, Georgia 30168
> USA
>
> voice: 770-944-7510
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks80up-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com
>
Well I got mine at Super Shops in Houston but Any speed parts store or
off-road shop that sells K&N filters should be able to order one for you.
On your van if you have the space then no problem(remember this air
cleaner is quite large and oval shaped.

BRAD JOHNSON
ksbdj00 TAMUK.EDU
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:55:59 -0400
From: jlester naxs.com (Jason Lester)
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: RE: '86 oil leak??
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Sounds like ring and/or piston problems. Do a compression check on that
cylinder and compare it to the others. A full rebuild should take care of it.

Jason

>I have a 2.0 liter 1986 ford ranger,standard evrything--
>no air,no power steering,standard transmision,etc.
>
>the problem I have right now is the oil is comig up out of the third spark
>plug while it's running,{WITH spark plug installed}???
>what condition can cause this in these engines??
>I am about to rebuild it,but will it be woth it{for this condition}???

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:42:54 -0500
From: "Justin Ryan"
To:
Subject: Re: PowerStroke: Axle Ratios
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

That 90' of yours, what size tire are you running??

Anyway, Go with the 4.10 gear and forget about it.
And always remember that you don't have to lead foot a PowerStroke!

----------
> From: John D. Bowne
> To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
> Subject: PowerStroke: Axle Ratios
> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 12:24 PM
>
> Howdy,
>
> I think that this was recently discussed here, but I, unfortunately,
wasn't
> really paying much attention. Sorry.
>
> I am looking at ordering a F350 PowerStroke 4WD CrewCab and seem to have
> resolved most of the option issues, but there is still one that has got
me
> stumped.
>
> I'm mainly looking at fuel mileage, rather than raw towing capacity. I
> would also like to have a limited slip rear axle, mainly for snow/dirt
> traction. I'm looking at a Auto transmission, but I'm not sure whether
the
> 4.10 or the 3.55 is the proper setup.
>
> The reason that I am worried, is that I have a '90 F250 4WD SuperCab with
a
> 5.8l, and a 5 speed manual, this has a 3.55 axle set. To say that this
> truck won't get out of its own way is charitable at best. In addition,
the
> gas mileage has been pretty poor, on a very gentle (easy on the gas) long
> trip the mileage might, might, get to 14 mpg. Usually, its closer to
10-11.
> When I bought the truck (used), I thought that this axle/tranny setup
would
> be a good setup.
>
> What I really don't want to do is to specify a replica of this problem.
The
> local dealers all seem to have units with 4.10's on the floor (yard), but
> they say that most buyers of the F350, want the highest possible towing
> capacity, hence the 4.10's.
>
> Most of my driving in the lower elevations around Portland Or. However, I
> recently bought a bunch of land in Montana, and the ability to
comfortably
> and efficiently travel to 6000 ft with a decent (2-3000 lbs) trailer
would
> be a real stong plus.
>
> Sorry about the length of the post, but I want to be right about this.
>
> Thanks in advance for your valued input....
>
> johnbo
>
>
>
> John D. Bowne - Cornelius, OR
> John.D.Bowne tek.com
> +-----------------------------------------------+
> | Stolen .Sig Line: |
> | "Salad is not food. Salad is what food eats" |
> | Corollary : |
> | "If animals weren't meant to be eaten, |
> | they wouldn't be made out of meat." |
> |-----------------------------------------------|
> | 2 Wheeled Toys 4 Wheeled Toys |
> |-----------------------------------------------|
> | '89 BMW K100RS '93 BMW 325i |
> | '81 Honda XR250R '90 Ford F250 4x4 |
> | '86 Yamaha Moto 4 |
> +-----------------------------------------------+
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Message distributed via http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.lofcom.com/
> For help send subject "HELP" to:fordtrucks80up-request lofcom.com
> Comments and suggestions are welcome, use: kpayne mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:27:45 -0600
From: Dave McDonald
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: Re: mo' power :)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text

Hiya all,

I got some really good resonse to my questions, thanks very
much to all who shared their experiences with me. A couple of
questions have formed in my mind as a result of reading the replies,
so I figgered: Post em! :)

1. What's the difference between speed-density and mass air?

2. should I be messin around tryin to modify my air flow without
a complete understanding of the answer to question #1? :)

3. I'm pretty sold on a cat-back exhaust system, I'd like to install
it myself. Would it make even more sense if I included headers in
that mod, or are the stock Ford headers good enough? ('90 F250HD,
351) Where is the biggest restriction on the exhaust flow so I can
nail the worst problems first?

4. Do any of those so-called 'high performance replacment chips'
really do any good?

5. I'm plannin on upgrading the ignition to one of those multiple
spark thangs... where can I find GOOD spark plug wires? (been buyin
'em from 'westautocheckerzone' type parts stores)

I think that's about it for now... Thanks in advance :)

Dave McDonald

P.S. Can't wait till I get enough knowledge under my belt to actually
answer some questions on this list instead o askin em all the time :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:54:37 -0700
From: "John D. Bowne"
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: Re: PowerStroke: Axle Ratios
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Justin,

I'm running the stock tires (235-85R16's I think). I am finding that if I
just forget about the 5th gear, the mileage does seem to come up a little
(about 1 mpg).

Thanks,

johnbo

At 04:42 PM 7/15/97 -0500, Justin Ryan wrote:
>That 90' of yours, what size tire are you running??
>
>Anyway, Go with the 4.10 gear and forget about it.
>And always remember that you don't have to lead foot a PowerStroke!
>
>----------


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:16:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jay Chlebowski
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: Re: PowerStroke: Axle Ratios
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Howdy,
>
>I think that this was recently discussed here, but I, unfortunately, wasn't
>really paying much attention. Sorry.
>
>I am looking at ordering a F350 PowerStroke 4WD CrewCab and seem to have
>resolved most of the option issues, but there is still one that has got me
>stumped.
>
>I'm mainly looking at fuel mileage, rather than raw towing capacity. I
>would also like to have a limited slip rear axle, mainly for snow/dirt
>traction. I'm looking at a Auto transmission, but I'm not sure whether the
>4.10 or the 3.55 is the proper setup.
>
>The reason that I am worried, is that I have a '90 F250 4WD SuperCab with a
>5.8l, and a 5 speed manual, this has a 3.55 axle set. To say that this
>truck won't get out of its own way is charitable at best. In addition, the
>gas mileage has been pretty poor, on a very gentle (easy on the gas) long
>trip the mileage might, might, get to 14 mpg. Usually, its closer to 10-11.
>When I bought the truck (used), I thought that this axle/tranny setup would
>be a good setup.
>
>What I really don't want to do is to specify a replica of this problem. The
>local dealers all seem to have units with 4.10's on the floor (yard), but
>they say that most buyers of the F350, want the highest possible towing
>capacity, hence the 4.10's.
>
>Most of my driving in the lower elevations around Portland Or. However, I
>recently bought a bunch of land in Montana, and the ability to comfortably
>and efficiently travel to 6000 ft with a decent (2-3000 lbs) trailer would
>be a real stong plus.
>
>Sorry about the length of the post, but I want to be right about this.
>
>Thanks in advance for your valued input....
>
> johnbo

I also debated on this issue when I got my 97 F350 4x4 Crew Cab
PowerStroke. My previous truck was a Dodge Ram 2500HD 4x4 Club Cab 4.10
Auto that certainly moved heavy loads, but sucked fuel rather rapidly (due
to Auto Tranny slippage and lots of highway miles with the 4.10's). I
wanted better fuel economy with my F350, so I went with the 3.55 gears and
the 5-speed.

As for performance, I'm way impressed. First and second gears are low
enough to really launch the beast, and third gear really gets her up and
going. I can surpise the hell out of a number of cars at stoplights, and
still turn only 2000 rpms at 70mph. The PowerStroke has a wonderfully
strong powerband from 2000rpm all the way to redline, and when the boost
comes on you'll never miss the 4.10's.

As for towing performance, number 1, don't believe the downrated GCWR's for
the 5-speed. My dealer, which does 75% of it's business in F250HD's and
F350's, said the only reason Ford downrated the 5-speed is that too many
folks nowadays Don't know how to tow with a manual. Poor handling of the
stick/clutch can cause clutch failures or damage from lugging. Since it's
hard for dealers to pinpoint poor towing traits as the cause of
transmission damage, Ford subsequently replaced/repaired a lot on manuals
that were simply abused. Number 2, the autos can be made quite strong (and
are an evolution of the stout C6), but they also noted that they guys who
pull serious loads with the autos are religious with full fluid changes as
the autos simply get very hot. I know they're convenient, but full changes
gets expensive. As for personal experience, I've lugged some seriously
heavy (don't ask) gooseneck trailers around our farm without a whimper from
the engine or tranny. It simply pulls hard, and when I cruise on the
highway I still get 21-24mpg.

Lastly (whew!), as regards to high altitudes, last week I went on vacation
and traveled down (what's left) of Route 66 from St. Louis to Flagstaff, AZ
(to visit my brother). We don't have long grades and high elevations like
that here, so I was pleased to note that even on I-17 which runs from
Phoenix to Flagstaff and is almost all uphill with 5%+ grades, the cruise
held her at 70mph with four passengers, a ton of gear (she was squattting),
and the AC set on deep freeze. I still got 18-19mpg. When we drove back
to MO we went up through southwestern colorado to Grand Junction which is a
gorgeous drives and maintains elevation ranges from 7000 to almost 11000
feet. This was the first time I ever saw the engine produce black smoke
under a load (but she only did it when under 2000rpm). 2000 and above and
I was tearing away from traffic, and I raced one 97 Cummins Club Cab 4x4
Manual up a long 5 mile climb to a peak and beat him handily by about half
a minute.

So, in other words, I've haven't missed the 4.10's a bit, and I certainly
enjoy the simplicity and strength of the 5-speed. Feel free to fire away
with any questions, and good luck with your purchase.

Best Regards,
Jay

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:12:53 -0400
From: Ken Payne
To: fordtrucks80up lofcom.com
Subject: IMPORTANT ADMIN NEWS, PLEASE READ
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Yesterday I received an email from one of the largest Ford antique
parts companies. They would like to distribute their catalog, free
of charge, to anyone on our list who is interested.

In addition, there was an offer to promote them on our web site.
This company is a very well respected member of the Ford antique
"community" and I have no reason to believe they want to influence
our membership. They simply want to take advantage of the fact that
our site receives 250+ Ford truck visitors a day. I wanted to bring
this to the attention of the list members since I've always kept
list business and finances in the open. I'm in favor of letting
them advertise on the web page only - not on the lists (they made no
mention of advertising on or influencing the lists).

Thanks to the kindness of many members the email list expenses are
paid up for this quarter (up in a month) and most of next quarter.
I would like to offer this company an opportunity to advertise on
our page, covering list expenses so our membership doesn't have to.
List expenses are an on-going item that I would rather not have to
beg the members about. I would also like to try to arrange a group
purchase discount with this company since they seem eager to deal
with us. I haven't actually discussed any terms with this company
as I wanted to approach the membership first. Please be prompt with
your opinions as I would like to get in touch with them ASAP.

What does everyone think about this? It seems like a win-win....

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