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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:32:00 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks80up-digest)
To: fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #6
Reply-To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks80up-digest Monday, January 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 006



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Books on later model Fords [onnie lynn winebarger ]
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #4 [Bill Funk ]
Re: Expedition Profit [Chad Royse ]
[none] ["Smeins, Larry" ]
Re: Ranger Annoyances & Follow-up [Midwest96 ]
Salesman debate [CASSIS universal.usa.com (Cassis, John)]
Re: Salesman debate [Chad Royse ]
Re: Salesman debate ["Hummer" ]
New CO Bill [Dave Armbruster ]
Re[2]: 1999 f250 invoice questions [Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)]
Re[2]: Invoice on a 1999 [Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)]
Ranger - Slave cylinder [CASSIS universal.usa.com (Cassis, John)]
Re: How do I boost engine performance in a 1996 351 [William Martin
Salesman Debate [CASSIS universal.usa.com (Cassis, John)]
Re: Shocking F-150, AND Ford dealer mishaps. [Michael Ruth
Re: Expedition Profit [Michael Ruth ]
Re: Ranger - Slave cylinder [FastRngXLT ]
Re: Invoice on a 1999 [Chad Royse ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:59:53 -0500 (EST)
From: onnie lynn winebarger
Subject: Books on later model Fords

I've been buying some books on modifying/rebuilding Ford
(and other) engines. Unfortunately, they all seem to date
from the early 80's. However, I'm actually more interested
in using parts from the 90's up models on my early 80's
engine (a 351W in an 83 E150).

Mostly I've been looking at the induction system, as my
fuel economy stinks (probably would boost power as well).
The engine block hasn't changed, but the manifolds apparently
won't fit the older heads. Also, I'm not quite sure the
upper intake manifold would fit, although I think this
engine is still used in E150's and I don't know if clearances
have been changed. I can get the induction system and heads
from a junkyard for $400 (exchange), including the fuel injectors
and rails.

I was then thinking about using a TEC II from Electromotive, which
includes a distributorless ignition and computer to control both the
ignition and fuel injection. This last feature is what I really like
about it, since the other aftermarket fuel injection kits I've heard
about only control the fuel injection system. Has anyone had any
experience with this company and this product?

I know I'd also need an electric fuel pump. The guy at Electromotive
I talked to said that after getting the induction system, he could set me
up with everything else (including the fuel pump, I presumed). However,
as far as I know, EFI requires the fuel pump to be in the gas tank to
prevent vaporlock (and Ford also uses 1 or 2 other gadgets along the
fuel line?). Would it be easier/cheaper to just get a tank from the
junk yard with the pump already installed? How should I check for leaks?
Are there any other components I would need?

Thanks,
Lynn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 06:23:49 -0700
From: Bill Funk
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #4

> From: Chad Royse
> Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #2
>
> I think that if you read any of the other posts on this new 'heated
> topic'
> that you will see there is a lot of supportive posts on the topic's
> you've
> touched. By the way, how do you know better? What are your sources
> compared to that of a major publication?
>
> Thanks for your oppinions,
> Chad
>
> Bill Funk wrote:
> ...
> >
> > I've been reading Trailer Life for years.
> > I respect their opinions on trailers, and on the tow vehicles they
> > evaluate.
> > However, I know better than to use the economic figures they toss
> around
> > as gospel, or as anything other than what they actually mean.
> > A figure of $10000 per Expedition can not mean net profit. There's
> > simply no way that can happen. Not even gross profit could be that
> high.
> > That figure is, in all likelyhood, invoice minus parts costs, as it
> > can't also cover the costs of the labor, and certainly not the
> > 'headshop' costs of research and design, normal plant costs, and
> other
> > overhead. While I have no doubt that there's more profit in
> Expedition
> > sales than in, say, Contour sales, there's no way it approaches
> $10,000
> > per Expedition. If it did, I'd own a lot of Ford stock, and shut up,
> sit
> > back and rake in the money!
> >
> > What's also been missing in this thread is the fact that most
> > dealerships make their real money from the back end - parts and
> labor
> > out of the shop.
> >
> > Bill Funk

Well, read it again, and see what I really said.
Sure, Ford "makes $10000" on each Expedition.
But, what does that mean? Gross profit? Net profit? Income over cost to
build?
I've been on the other side of the counter in several businesses, and
there are several ways to figure what's "made" on a sale, depending on
what you want your audience to believe. All are true, but all are
different. Without that definition, though, you have no way of knowing
what "makes" actually means.
Sort of like, when the salesman says, "This truck will only cost you
$325 a month," you really have no idea what the truck costs. Not enough
information.
As for that $10000 being net profit, forget it. Won't happen.
Gross profit? That's a 30% gross profit margin, extremely high. Even for
a market leader, it's high.
The $10000 figure is probably gotten by some combination of subtracting
certain actual costs (and ignoring others to make the resulting figure
look good - or bad - depending on who the intended audience is) from the
invoice price.
Anyway, it really makes no difference, as the invoice price is what the
dealer will work from (and I mean the "real" invoice price, taking into
account holdbacks, incentives, cash rebates, ect.).

As an interesting aside, get ahold of a Ford annual report, and figure
the actual net profit per consumer vehicle sold; I think you'll find
it's a *lot* lower than most people think.

Bill Funk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 08:57:39 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: Expedition Profit

"Loaded" is a very generalized term. Auto, air, and a radio is usually a
dealer's idea of loaded, even though there usually about 20 other options
available. By the way, were those 4x4's?

Here's an FYI: a 1998 Eddie Bauer with 4x4, 3.55 axle, auto, air, cruise,
tilt, 6-way power leather seating, aluminum wheels, 4-wheel disk brakes
with anti-lock, power windows, power door locks, keyless entry,
compass/trip computer, and luggage rack. It invoices for 30,788 including
destination. So I bet a dealer would be MORE than happy to strap your butt
to a 1997 for $32K.

Chad

Michael Ruth wrote:

> Not to brag or flame anyone... My father and I went to buy him a 1997
> Expedition. My local Large Ford dealer had Eddie Bauers stickered at
> around 38,000. The XLT's were at $35-36000. I have never ever seen a,
> XLT go for 38,000! WRONG! Anyway, we went to a small local FORD dealer
> and they had a demo EDDIE B. Expeditio, CD and all and my father bought
> it for 29,995 with only 2000 miles on it. No bickering! Just good ole
> service. No this truck was not hit, sunk, stolen, or 2 halves. SO....
> If anyone disagrees with me I can take you to two Dealers in Baltimore
> that are willing to sell a loaded E.B. Expedition for 32K NEW 30K demo.
> I will say that they were a commodity when they came out, but, no XLT's
> for $38k.
> Mike
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:07:03 -0700
From: "Smeins, Larry"
Subject: [none]

The first thing to look at on the 99s is, are the automatics truly hubs
or has Ford gone to the locking differential/axle like Chev and Dodge.
If they are hubs then consider what you want to do with your truck. The
owners manual for my 95 says that the automatic hubs are for urban
convenience only and they are not intended for heavy use. I didn't find
a salesman that would admit this bit of advice from Ford. I can speak
from experience that they will not hold up to the torque available in a
Powerstroke with automatic transmission. I also learned that Ford will
void the drivetrain warranty if you replace the hubs that came from the
factory on your truck, even if you have Ford replace them with their own
manuals. Ford auto hubs are made by Warn and are probably the strongest
available.

Larry

>Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:53:27 -0500
>From: Claude King
>Subject: auto locking hubs

>I'm planning on buying a 99 ford 350 4X4, from the spec sheets the
shift on
>the fly [electric shift] comes with auto locking hubs. The manual shift

>comes with manual hubs. I don't want electric shift and I don't want to
get
>out and lock hubs, besides buying the autolock hubs from Ford does any
>third party make auto lockers that might be stronger/cheaper ?

>//ck

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:12:02 EST
From: Midwest96
Subject: Re: Ranger Annoyances & Follow-up

In a message dated 98-01-04 23:32:21 EST, you write:


weather. This mostly occurs with the rear brakes, but the fronts sometimes
do this too. The S10 I sold for this truck did this too, but it didn't have
power brakes (and this was the least of it's problems) so it wasn't as
noticeable. Ideas? >>

I have had this same problem with my '96 F150 XLT, and have been told
repeatedly that it is a problem with semi-metalic brakes. If you discover
differently please let me know.

Craig {Midwest96 aol.com}

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 08:48
From: CASSIS universal.usa.com (Cassis, John)
Subject: Salesman debate

Josh - no offense to you, I've gotten a lot of good advice from you. But
would'nt it be alot easier if the price on the sticker was the actual
price for the car. No I gues not that way a dealership could not screw
the sh*t out of anyone dumb enough to go for the first deal or sticker
price on the vehicle. It realy is a shame. Almost any other product in
the US, with a few exceptions, is sold for the price listed on the item.
But when it comes to cars it's like we enterd a third world country where
everything is dickerd on (kind of like those little markets in Mexico).
The longer you dicker the lower the price goes. It's a shame. Had a guy I
work with wake up one morning and decide to buy a car. He just drove to a
dealership picked one out and bought it for the price they were asking.
Now tell me he did'nt get screwed. I think that if the prices on the
sticker were the no-dicker prices car-salesman would get a lot better
reputation. But as it is to many people get the screwes put to them and
dont relize it until after the fact......after say the 3rd or 4th
payment. When they talk to someone with the same car that payed a lot
less. Anyway my 2 cents worth.

John Cassis

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:19:59 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: Salesman debate

I really agree with your no hassel plan. They tried that here in
Cincinnati. It flopped pretty bad though, due to they typically priced
things $500 and up from invoice. So most people (me included) would rather
dicker for an hour (at most) for that last $500. I think that it may have
worked fairly well, if they would have refrained from trying to retire early
from it.

Cassis, John wrote:

> Josh - no offense to you, I've gotten a lot of good advice from you. But
> would'nt it be alot easier if the price on the sticker was the actual
> price for the car. No I gues not that way a dealership could not screw
> the sh*t out of anyone dumb enough to go for the first deal or sticker
> price on the vehicle. It realy is a shame. Almost any other product in
> the US, with a few exceptions, is sold for the price listed on the item.
> But when it comes to cars it's like we enterd a third world country where
> everything is dickerd on (kind of like those little markets in Mexico).
> The longer you dicker the lower the price goes. It's a shame. Had a guy I
> work with wake up one morning and decide to buy a car. He just drove to a
> dealership picked one out and bought it for the price they were asking.
> Now tell me he did'nt get screwed. I think that if the prices on the
> sticker were the no-dicker prices car-salesman would get a lot better
> reputation. But as it is to many people get the screwes put to them and
> dont relize it until after the fact......after say the 3rd or 4th
> payment. When they talk to someone with the same car that payed a lot
> less. Anyway my 2 cents worth.
>
> John Cassis
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+



- --
Chad

_________________________________________________________________

Pursuant to US Code Title 47, Ch.5, Sub-ch.II, Sect.227(a)(2)(B), a
computer/modem meet the definition of a telephone fax machine. Pursuant
to Sect.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited
advertisement to such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual
monetary loss or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation. Any
unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a fee
in the amount of $500US per occurance. E-mailing denotes acceptance of
these terms.
_________________________________________________________________

!! O I would rather be...
\O/ _O _O #=\ ___ __ _ _
__#__\#_\#____H_ \ | _ \__ _ / _| |_(_)_ _ __ _
_ ( : \ \ : )(\ | / _` | _| _| | ' \/ _` |
//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|_|_\__,_|_| \__|_|_||_\__, |~~~~~
|| |___/

New River - 1995, 1996, 1997
Fall Gauley - 1997 x-StRe M!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:44:05 -0500
From: "Hummer"
Subject: Re: Salesman debate

I've been watching the thread here, and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
I've written and/or modified software for all three auto makers over the
years, and the margin in vehicle models varies widely as far as I can tell.
I've seen periods of time when GM had better margin in small cars than large
ones while at the same time Ford was making better on the large ones. The
rule of thumb I've come up with to purchase a vehicle is this. I take 12%
off the sticker price and tell them I'll pay that amount including all
taxes, fees, tag costs, etc. I've done this about ten times now, and even
if they have to hem and haw a bit, I've always ended up with the vehicle I
wanted. I never trade in a car, and I pay cash. I sell my old car myself
and get the money without dealership knowledge or involvement. The trade in
actually seems to be the part of the deal that causes the most emotional BS
during the deal from what I've seen. If 12% off leaves the dealer a
fortune, I don't care. If it leaves him less than a burger costs, I don't
care. I know someone has to pay taxes, but my price is my price and I hate
that s**t about "Oh, the figure we agreed to didn't include ... ". If a
dealer can turn his money over ten or twelve times a year (good dealers do
that an more) and make 1% per deal (I mean make 1%, not gross 1%) then he
has a pretty good business, especially when you add in repairs and so forth.
I don't want to rape the dealer or have him get penniless, I just figured
out that over time the margin they get ends up being about 14% when averaged
across all models (including holdbacks, incentives, etc.), and if he wants
my business he can focus his non-volume tricks on someone else. I have to
admit one thing, though, a lot of dealerships don't think a lot more of
their sales force than the general public does, and wish they could go to a
single price policy. Trouble is, too many folks would still want to dicker,
usually about how valuable their trade in is. That means the dealership
feels like they have to leave the whole package debatable in order to make
the trade in look like what the customer expects it to be. All the folks
who wish the salesmen were different should find a few former salesmen who
couldn't make it by trying to be straight with the public before they bitch
too much. A lot of people seem to look forward to the dickering and get
very suspicious when they don't encounter it. Bragging about how you beat a
salesman to death is almost as popular as is bragging about "sitting duck"
customers among car salesmen. All opinions my own, your experience may
vary widely, but I spent a bunch of time around several dozen dealerships of
various flavors, and the situation seemed pretty much the same at all of
them. One last thing. I'd be willing to bet that the $10,000 margin in an
Expedition is actually a figure that includes the profit that each step
generates, not what is in the vehicle at the lot. The lot would probably
have about $5500 to $6000 depending on packages and so forth. The rest is
in the distribution and factory markups I'd think. Then again, things may
have changed in the past five or six years.

Hummer


- -----Original Message-----
From: Cassis, John
To: fordtrucks80up listservice.net
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:04
Subject: Salesman debate


>
>Josh - no offense to you, I've gotten a lot of good advice from you. But
>would'nt it be alot easier if the price on the sticker was the actual
>price for the car. No I gues not that way a dealership could not screw
>the sh*t out of anyone dumb enough to go for the first deal or sticker
>price on the vehicle. It realy is a shame. Almost any other product in
>the US, with a few exceptions, is sold for the price listed on the item.
>But when it comes to cars it's like we enterd a third world country where
>everything is dickerd on (kind of like those little markets in Mexico).
>The longer you dicker the lower the price goes. It's a shame. Had a guy I
>work with wake up one morning and decide to buy a car. He just drove to a
>dealership picked one out and bought it for the price they were asking.
>Now tell me he did'nt get screwed. I think that if the prices on the
>sticker were the no-dicker prices car-salesman would get a lot better
>reputation. But as it is to many people get the screwes put to them and
>dont relize it until after the fact......after say the 3rd or 4th
>payment. When they talk to someone with the same car that payed a lot
>less. Anyway my 2 cents worth.
>
>John Cassis
>
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
>| List removal instructions on the website. |
>+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:47:11 -0700
From: Dave Armbruster
Subject: New CO Bill

I don't have any reason not to believe this is for real. I looked on the
CO government web pages and found this information. I have not been able
to find many e-mail addresses for the Senators and Representatives, but all
their snail mail and phone numbers are avaliable. The Second Regular
Session of the Sixty-First General Assembly will convene January 7, 1998,
so there may not be a lot of time.

Dave Armbruster
Arvada, CO

>Senate Transportation Committee members:
>Senator Mutzebaugh, Chairman
>Senator Powers, Vice-Chairman
>Senators Ament, Duke, Linkhart, Perlmutter, and Thiebaut.
>
>House Transportation Committee members:
>Representative May, Chairman
>Representative Swenson, Vice-Chairman
>Representatives Allen, Gotlieb, June, Kaufman, Lawrence, Mace, McElhany,
>Veiga, S. Williams.
>
>BILL H
>
>
>
>A BILL FOR AN ACT
>
> Concerning a prohibition against operating a
>motor vehicle that has been improperly altered.
>
>
>
>Bill Summary
>
>
>"Alteration Of Vehicle Configurations"
>
>(Note: This summary applies to this bill as introduced and does not
>necessarily reflect any amendments that may be
>subsequently adopted.)
>
>Transportation Legislation Review Committee. Modifies the current
>prohibition against operating a motor vehicle with a front
>or rear suspension system that has been altered or changed from the
>manufacturer's original design. Prohibits any person
>from operating a motor vehicle on a public highway if the configuration of
>the vehicle has been altered from the
>manufacturer's specifications as established under federal law. Eliminates
>the authorization of the department of revenue to
>establish specifications for exceptions to the prohibition against
>alteration of suspension systems.
>
>Directs the department of revenue to promulgate rules to establish
>standards and procedures that may be used by law
>enforcement personnel in enforcing the prohibition against operating a
>motor vehicle that has been improperly altered.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Colorado:
>
>SECTION 1. 42-4-233 (1), Colorado Revised Statutes, is amended to read:
>
>42-4-233. Alteration of motor vehicle configuration - rules - enforcement.
>(1) (a) No person shall operate a
>motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under the laws of this
>state upon a public highway with either the rear or
>front suspension system altered or changed from the manufacturer's
>original design except in accordance with specifications
>permitting such alteration established by the department. Nothing
>contained in this section shall prevent the installation of
>manufactured heavy duty equipment to include shock absorbers and overload
>springs, nor shall anything contained in this
>section prevent a person from operating a motor vehicle on a public
>highway with normal wear of the suspension system if
>normal wear shall not affect the control of the vehicle. No person shall
>operate a motor vehicle of a type that is required to be
>registered under the laws of this state on a public highway if the motor
>vehicle configuration has been altered from the
>specifications established by the manufacturer in compliance with the
>federal "National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act
>of 1966", 49 U.S.C. sec. 30101 et seq., and regulations promulgated
>pursuant to such federal act. Vehicle alterations
>governed by this section include, but are not limited to, alterations to a
>motor vehicle's front or rear suspension system, tire
>or wheel size, body height, chassis configuration, or steering system.
>
>(b) (I) This section does not prohibit a person from operating a vehicle
>on a public highway with replacement parts installed
>in such vehicle if such parts conform to the manufacturer specifications.
>
>(II) This section does not prohibit a person from operating a motor
>vehicle on a public highway with normal wear of the
>vehicle components if such normal wear does not affect the control or
>safety of the vehicle.
>
>(c) The department shall promulgate rules to establish standards and
>procedures that may be used by law enforcement
>personnel in enforcing the provisions of paragraph (a) of this subsection
>(1). Such standards and procedures may include
>descriptions of measurements that may be used by a law enforcement officer
>to determine whether a motor vehicle is in
>compliance with manufacturer specifications.
>
>SECTION 2. Effective date - applicability. (1) This act shall take effect
>at 12:01 a.m. on the day following the
>expiration of the ninety-day period after final adjournment of the general
>assembly that is allowed for submitting a
>referendum petition pursuant to article V, section 1 (3) of the state
>constitution; except that, if a referendum petition is filed
>against this act or an item, section, or part of this act within such
>period, then the act, item, section, or part, if approved by
>the people, shall take effect on the date of the official declaration of
>the vote thereon by proclamation of the governor.
>
>(2) The provisions of this act shall apply to offenses committed on or
>after the applicable effective date of this act.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:57:17 -0500
From: Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)
Subject: Re[2]: 1999 f250 invoice questions

Does auto by Tel guarantee invoice, or do they tell you invoice, on the website
they just tell you no hassle quote. I have a guy calling me today about it.

Thanks,

Daryl

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:02:26 -0500
From: Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)
Subject: Re[2]: Invoice on a 1999

Whoever replied to this from entex, does the from show my name? When I receive
a e-mail through cc mail 8.0 through a mobile connection it only shows
fordtrucks... as the sender. So I have no idea who sent it, unless they leave
a name. So I cannot reply to them.

Daryl.Rue Entex.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 09:42
From: CASSIS universal.usa.com (Cassis, John)
Subject: Ranger - Slave cylinder

On my 93' it went out with 75,000 miles on it. My budy has a 92' 2 wheel
drive and his went out at about 100,000 miles. I replaced mine myself, it
was a real pain. Had to take the t-case off to get the trany out, to get
to the slave cylinder. Took a full day to do on my back in the garage. I
went ahead and put in a new clutch, pressure plate, and throw-out bearing
at the same time(since I was their). Anyway seems to be a common problem
with Rangers, I've heard of quite a few people on here with the same
problem but none on that new of a truck.

John Cassis
The Danger Ranger
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 08:16:53 -0800
From: William Martin
Subject: Re: How do I boost engine performance in a 1996 351

Phil McCrory wrote:
>
> Hi have a Ford F-150 with a 351ci engine. After adding a lift kit (6
> inches) and 35 inch tires, I am in need of more power out of the engine. >
> I am looking for feedback from anyone who has successfully performed any of
> the modifications listed above.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil
>

Well, those 35 inch tires changed your effective gear ratio, so the
first thing would be to change it back, by changing to a lower gear
in your axle(s). You are suffering from to tall a gear for those big
tires....

good luck,
Bill

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 09:56
From: CASSIS universal.usa.com (Cassis, John)
Subject: Salesman Debate

I got screwed once buying my first truck (used from a dealer) back in 87'
took me a while to figure it out but I did. I decided I never would let
anyone pressure me into buying anything again. In 92 bought my first
brand new truck 92' Ranger xlt 2 wheel drive. I found the truck I wanted
and dickerd on the price for 3 weeks. Got the truck for a decent price.
In 93' I traded that truck for my 93' STX 4x4 Ranger. I found the truck I
wanted and dickerd on the price of that truck for 5 weeks. That is
pathetic. They eventualy came to what I originaly thought was an
acceptable deal. Of course this was after them trying to screw me on
financing and all of the other typical bull-sh** thy try to put the
screwes to you with. It realy is a shame. I'm shure that their are a few
honest car salesman and dealerships........I've just never met any or
found any.

John Cassis
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:05:47 -0500
From: Michael Ruth
Subject: Re: Shocking F-150, AND Ford dealer mishaps.

Bob wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Ive got this weird problem with my 1995 F-150 Supercab pickup. Every
> once in a while it shocks me through the little screw on the inside door
> handle, or through the ignition when I insert the key. Most of the time
> it is a small shock, but sometimes I really get hit, and can see a blue
> spark jump from the truck to my finger if its dark out.
>
> What is the problem ? It doesnt happen all the time, off and on at all
> times during the year. Any ideas ???
>
> Also, on a lighter note, kind of... I have noticed that my underhood
> light blinks when I hit bumps in the road. Its like a mini light-show
> at night on a dirt road ! I took it to my dealer and they gave me a
> dumb look and said that they would look at it. Well, after 3 more trips
> to the shop, it still blinks, and they still deny that it does. Its
> rather amusing at this point. The last time I took my truck in I gave
> them 8 specific problems to have them look at under its extended
> warranty. ( 42000 miles ) They came back and said nothing was wrong.
> I went out to the parking lot to drive home and found that one of my
> problems, the middle console seat in my 40/20/40 front seat that would
> not go down, STILL wouldnt go down. Amazed, I looked at the invoice
> they had given me stating what they had done to the truck. It said "No
> problem found". Im to the point where I wonder if they even looked at
> my truck. Possibly just to see what color it was so they could write
> that on their invoice ???
>
> What really bothers me is that the real reason I was there was to have
> them fix my front axle that was, and still is, making all kinds of
> clunks and pops. And to figure out why my truck whines so loud when its
> cold (under 10 degrees). It sounds like all of the bearings for the
> accessories driven by the belt have failed. They say that it is
> supposed to make that noise when its cold... What ???????
>
> Can anyone shed some light on any of my many mishaps ?
>
> Thank you,
> Bob
> Anchorage, Alaska
> ascbh1 uaa.alaska.edu
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+
Hey!
I have the same shocking problem! Same screw, same effect. It comes
from when you slide in (Usually with jeans) or when you slide out.
Natural occurance! If you were to sit right on seat and get right off
seat without the slide part. You would not get a shock. Just thought
you might like to know.
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:12:00 -0500
From: Michael Ruth
Subject: Re: Expedition Profit

Chad Royse wrote:
>
> "Loaded" is a very generalized term. Auto, air, and a radio is usually a
> dealer's idea of loaded, even though there usually about 20 other options
> available. By the way, were those 4x4's?
>
> Here's an FYI: a 1998 Eddie Bauer with 4x4, 3.55 axle, auto, air, cruise,
> tilt, 6-way power leather seating, aluminum wheels, 4-wheel disk brakes
> with anti-lock, power windows, power door locks, keyless entry,
> compass/trip computer, and luggage rack. It invoices for 30,788 including
> destination. So I bet a dealer would be MORE than happy to strap your butt
> to a 1997 for $32K.
>
> Chad
>
> Michael Ruth wrote:
>
> > Not to brag or flame anyone... My father and I went to buy him a 1997
> > Expedition. My local Large Ford dealer had Eddie Bauers stickered at
> > around 38,000. The XLT's were at $35-36000. I have never ever seen a,
> > XLT go for 38,000! WRONG! Anyway, we went to a small local FORD dealer
> > and they had a demo EDDIE B. Expeditio, CD and all and my father bought
> > it for 29,995 with only 2000 miles on it. No bickering! Just good ole
> > service. No this truck was not hit, sunk, stolen, or 2 halves. SO....
> > If anyone disagrees with me I can take you to two Dealers in Baltimore
> > that are willing to sell a loaded E.B. Expedition for 32K NEW 30K demo.
> > I will say that they were a commodity when they came out, but, no XLT's
> > for $38k.
> > Mike
> > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> > | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> > | List removal instructions on the website. |
> > +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+
I understand and we have all the listed options including rear Air
conditioning. Also, keep in mind that this was back in August when we
bought it and 1998s were not around! I sell BMWs for a living and I
know what loaded and fully equipped means(something different to
everyone) I just figured most people on this list would know an EDDIE
BAUER has all basic luxuries. ANd yes they are 4X4s.
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:30:29 EST
From: FastRngXLT
Subject: Re: Ranger - Slave cylinder

In a message dated 98-01-05 11:11:15 EST, you write:


drive and his went out at about 100,000 miles. I replaced mine myself, it
was a real pain. Had to take the t-case off to get the trany out, to get
to the slave cylinder. Took a full day to do on my back in the garage. I
went ahead and put in a new clutch, pressure plate, and throw-out bearing
at the same time(since I was their). Anyway seems to be a common problem
with Rangers, I've heard of quite a few people on here with the same
problem but none on that new of a truck.
>>

Well, thats good to know because I have a 96' 3.0L Ranger nearning 65K.
Thanks for the info.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:26:39 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: Invoice on a 1999

cc:Mail stinks for that! My name is Chad Royse, you can look me up in the cc:Mail
directory. However please send non-business e-mail to chadlyr ix.netcom.com.

daryl rue wrote:

> Whoever replied to this from entex, does the from show my name? When I receive
> a e-mail through cc mail 8.0 through a mobile connection it only shows
> fordtrucks... as the sender. So I have no idea who sent it, unless they leave
> a name. So I cannot reply to them.
>
> Daryl.Rue Entex.com
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+....


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