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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:44:13 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks80up-digest)
To: fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #4
Reply-To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks80up-digest Sunday, January 4 1998 Volume 02 : Number 004



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
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with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. For help, send
email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: 1999 f250 invoice question ["Jim Bielecki"
Small truck list ["Joseph L. Casey" ]
Re: 10 Grand on a truck/Suv! Damned straight! [Lou Guerriero
Re: Colorado Legislative Alert [Ken Payne ]
Re: Colorado Legislative Alert [zeb utalk.org (Lamar Zabielski)]
Invoice on a 1999 [Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)]
Re: whine in my F250 []
Re: The Salesperson Debate [Laura Schnur ]
Re: 1999 f250 invoice questions [Chad Royse ]
Re: Salesmen shenanigans.... [Chad Royse ]
Ford truck article [Paul Laughlin ]
Re: 1999 f250 invoice question [Chad Royse ]
Re: Invoice on a 1999 [Chad Royse ]
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #2 [Chad Royse ]
Re: Salesmen shenanigans....LZ [zeb utalk.org (Lamar Zabielski)]
fuel line connections [Penqiun ]
Expedition Profit [Michael Ruth ]
Re: fuel line connections [FastRngXLT ]
failed torque converter in 1995 ford e150 302V8 E4OD transmission [John T]
Re: fuel line connections [Randy ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:20:06 -0500
From: "Jim Bielecki"
Subject: Re: 1999 f250 invoice question

>If it did, I'd own a lot of Ford stock, and shut up, sit
> back and rake in the money!

Actually, anybody who did have Ford stock the past eight months has made
out extremely well. Thanks to its extensive cost cutting ($3 billion
dollars this year alone) and new North American products (Expedition,
Navigator), Ford has now become the darling of Wall Street. Most of the
big investment companies now list Ford as a "must buy."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:11:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph L. Casey"
Subject: Small truck list

live

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:12:27 -0500
From: Lou Guerriero
Subject: Re: 10 Grand on a truck/Suv! Damned straight!

Hi,

I've read the 10K minimum price point concept, from FORD
representatives!!!!! So quit your whining and complaining.. all of
you.. I think everyone knows that trucks... long the cheapest vehicles
to buy..... Have been skyrocketing in price, and are now the biggest
profit makers for ALL the motor companies.

You can't really expect me to believe that the Average SUV off the
lot is worth 40K (here in Canada), when there is really only a couple
grand worth of additions from it's basic truck shape.

It's simple supply and demand. Demand is high, so the price
follows.... Hopefully, the mini SUV's will bleed the market (rav's
crv's outbacks etc) and prices will come down in a couple years, as the
market gets flooded with options... (and the yen keeps dropping,
bringing more competition).

My 2 cents......

Lou Guerriero
_________________

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.echelon.ca/loug/
Mailto:loug echelon.ca
ICQ UIN: 1235438
Kali NN: Loucifur

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 12:30:25 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Colorado Legislative Alert

At 01:59 AM 1/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I picked this up off another mailing list that I'm on, and thought I'd just forward to you guys. Sorry, I'm just the messenger, so if you have questions, please try to get in touch with the contact listed at the end. Or maybe the SEMA web site.
>
>Mark
>
>
>> LEGISLATIVE NOTICE
>>
>> BILL TO PROHIBIT ALTERED SUSPENSIONS
>> APPROVED BY COLORADO REVIEW COMMITTEE

I would suggest that everyone on the list in the state of Colorado
send a letter to your representative ASAP. This bill could
apply to non-OEM shocks, leaf/coil springs, larger tires and
a whole range of other items. I'm willing to bet that this bill
was put forth by a representative who doesn't like his neighbor
who happens to own a raised off-roader.

And if you live in Colorado, get your friends to write in too.
This is one area where these lists can be a positive force for
Ford truckers. If you're in Colorado, feel free to post your
reps name, address and phone number on the lists.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:03:25 -0700 (MST)
From: zeb utalk.org (Lamar Zabielski)
Subject: Re: Colorado Legislative Alert

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/lcsstaff/comsched/reports/tlrch.htm

Contact info is at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/stateleg.html

BILL H


A BILL FOR AN ACT

Concerning a prohibition against operating a motor vehicle that has been
improperly altered.


Bill Summary

"Alteration Of Vehicle Configurations"

(Note: This summary applies to this bill as introduced and does not
necessarily reflect any amendments that may be subsequently adopted.)

Transportation Legislation Review Committee. Modifies the current prohibition
against operating a motor vehicle with a front or rear suspension system
that has
been altered or changed from the manufacturer's original design. Prohibits any
person from operating a motor vehicle on a public highway if the
configuration of
the vehicle has been altered from the manufacturer's specifications as
established
under federal law. Eliminates the authorization of the department of revenue to
establish specifications for exceptions to the prohibition against alteration of
suspension systems.

Directs the department of revenue to promulgate rules to establish standards and
procedures that may be used by law enforcement personnel in enforcing the
prohibition against operating a motor vehicle that has been improperly altered.






Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Colorado:

SECTION 1. 42-4-233 (1), Colorado Revised Statutes, is amended to read:

42-4-233. Alteration of motor vehicle configuration - rules - enforcement.
(1) (a)(line thru the following)
- ---------------------------------------------------------- No person shall
operate a motor vehicle of a type required to be
registered under the laws of this state upon a public highway with either
the rear
or front suspension system altered or changed from the manufacturer's original
design except in accordance with specifications permitting such alteration
established by the department. Nothing contained in this section shall
prevent the
installation of manufactured heavy duty equipment to include shock absorbers
and overload springs, nor shall anything contained in this section prevent a
person from operating a motor vehicle on a public highway with normal wear of
the suspension system if normal wear shall not affect the control of the
vehicle.---------------------------(Replace with the following)
No person shall operate a motor vehicle of a type that is required to be
registered under the laws of this state on a public highway if the motor vehicle
configuration has been altered from the specifications established by the
manufacturer in compliance with the federal "National Traffic and Motor Vehicle
Safety Act of 1966", 49 U.S.C. sec. 30101 et seq., and regulations
promulgated pursuant to such federal act. Vehicle alterations governed by this
section include, but are not limited to, alterations to a motor vehicle's
front or
rear suspension system, tire or wheel size, body height, chassis
configuration, or
steering system.

(b) (I) This section does not prohibit a person from operating a vehicle on a
public highway with replacement parts installed in such vehicle if such parts
conform to the manufacturer specifications.

(II) This section does not prohibit a person from operating a motor vehicle on a
public highway with normal wear of the vehicle components if such normal wear
does not affect the control or safety of the vehicle.

(c) The department shall promulgate rules to establish standards and procedures
that may be used by law enforcement personnel in enforcing the provisions of
paragraph (a) of this subsection (1). Such standards and procedures may include
descriptions of measurements that may be used by a law enforcement officer to
determine whether a motor vehicle is in compliance with manufacturer
specifications.

SECTION 2. Effective date - applicability. (1) This act shall take effect at
12:01 a.m. on the day following the expiration of the ninety-day period
after final
adjournment of the general assembly that is allowed for submitting a referendum
petition pursuant to article V, section 1 (3) of the state constitution;
except that,
if a referendum petition is filed against this act or an item, section, or
part of this
act within such period, then the act, item, section, or part, if approved by the
people, shall take effect on the date of the official declaration of the
vote thereon
by proclamation of the governor.

(2) The provisions of this act shall apply to offenses committed on or after the
applicable effective date of this act.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:14:57 -0500
From: Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)
Subject: Invoice on a 1999

Ok,
Thanks for all the info, and sorry to get a controversy going...

If I want to order a truck on Monday, which I want to, Is there a way to get
invoice pricing without making the dealer show it too me? The internet spots
take time to update their systems. Does anyone have the exact length in inches
so I can measure my garage, for the long box crew cab f250 1999 with bumper.

Thanks,

Daryl in Omaha.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 15:55:19 -0600
From:
Subject: Re: whine in my F250

Roger Loving 1/1/98 7:56 AM

> Hello, I've been lurking for a year and enjoying it a lot. To introduce
>myself, I'm a 50 year-old mech. engineer...I live in an old cabin I built
>years
>ago in the mountains outside Boulder, Colorado. And like most of the guys on
>this list I've been a mechanic all my life. Sometimes for pay and mostly for
>fun, but I'm a pretty good wrench by now..... Which proves something about
>the
>value of staying power...
> Anyway, My F-250 Powerstroke has a whine to the motor as I let off the
>loud
>pedal to shift gears. Not too loud, but I wonder about it. The basic
>vehicle is
>a '95 Powerstroke, manual trans. 4x4 extended cab and loaded. Yes, I
>bought it
>new and all warranty and even oil changes are done at the dealer. ($10.00 for
>motorcraft oil plus filter!).
> So does anyone know about this noise? Could it just be turbo whine? Does
>anyone else have anything to add? The motor does seem to be making more
>smoke
>than usual when I shift gears; could this be related? We aren't talking
>about a
>lot of smoke or a very loud whine...It is very subtle....But I'm curious
>because
>for the first two years the motor never did make more than a tiny puff of
>diesel
>smoke...something is different now.

Howdy Roger!

How many miles are on the truck, and at what RPM does the whine occur?
Is it a groan, or a vibration you can feel in the pedals or ger selector,
or does it sound like the turbo winding down? I'm trying to picture what
might occur.

Best Regards,
Jay

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 14:53:30 -0800
From: Laura Schnur
Subject: Re: The Salesperson Debate


Wow - I just had to comment on all of the impassioned discussion about the
price of vehicles, the ethics of sales people, and the experiences shared.
I'm trying to remember that in my real life I am a first grade teacher
surrounded
by happy little 6-year olds all day long. Their biggest complaint is when
their
next recess will come.

Well, even though I don't know you guys, I read and respond and watch all of
you here from my computer. I think you are all very interesting.
Josh - you are actually a very helpful, and thoughtful
person when it comes to all of the discussion here on the board. Don't let
thoughtlessness make you so mad (I should talk - I get p'o'd at everything!)
However, I would imagine you sell Fords because you like them - this would
make you different from almost every other sales person out there.
And, I laughed at Ken's laundry list. GOD! Are these things true!
Although I am now 37, I can remember every experience on the sales lot
as just being terrible. What an assault. You're never allowed to just
look without
a pack of locusts ascending upon you. Then there were the lots where no one
cared whether you were there or not. And if you were young, you obviously
were a waste of time...
My husband still remembers the Datsun dealer (at that time - 1970???)
dismissing
him because he wanted to test drive a 240SX. He ended up with a muscle car -
a Firebird - and drove by saluting him with the bird.
I remember being hounded over a stupid car - a Dodge Colt - equivalent to
the Pinto -
and just thinking how in the hell did I get into this. The game was so
obvious even

then - "I must have your phone #, " "Let me have my manager talk to you,"
and even
"this is the only car here for you." HA HA. I would have hated driving
that. Instead,
I was raped over a Suzuki Samurai (1987). Of course, I couldn't go the
police. They would
have laughed at me for even signing the paper. I was so stupid!
Now, as a person with an MA (that's Master's...), I have finally gotten
smarter.
I deal only with the fleet person now. This was a learned deal after
buying the Ford F-250
Diesel (1989 - you remember me now, don't you?), when it was so easy just
ordering what you wanted and having it delivered and paying actual green
for it. No locust assault, no need for bug repellant, no arguing, no
endless hours sitting around feeling "bent over." No questions
like "how much can you pay each month?" Meaning - we'll fix it so you get
the highest
interest rate at the longest term, and charge you the maximum for the car
In fact, I think all sales people ought to just be in the fleet program,
sitting behind a desk taking some orders and delivering them - developing a
personal business relationship with the customer. It is a lot more honest
IMHO.
We have tried the walk-on-the-lot routine since then. We foolishly bought
a brand new Honda Civic for our daughter off the lot - first, don't ever
buy a new car for your child - you will regret it - and secondly, the deal
was terrible. But then, Honda doesn't have to negotiate with you. We
vowed never to do that again.
AND!!!! I just bought a 1998 Ford Expedition, Black, tinted glass, XLT,
leather, CD, love mobile from a Ford fleet dealer who turned out to be a
childhood friend (I was LUCKY!). I was armed with information - the
invoice list price and the MSRP. I educated myself and stated what I
wanted. She informed me of the price difference possibility between my
initial inquiry and the actual purchase - because I was going from 1997 to
1998 model. I paid her a set fee over the invoice - I'm sure somehow the
dealer gets a hefty share - but I don't really know. As I was waiting in
her office one day, I listened to a sales deal off the floor going on in
the lobby. I actually had to stop myself from going over to them and
telling the sales guy that if he were talking to me the way he was talking
to his customer, he would never make the sale. The insulting demeanor and
ignoramus talk was just too much for me to take. But then, I have been
known to remind the IRS agents that I don't work for them - they actually
work for me...


The problem with car sales is that unless you are actually employed by
one, you are actually on the outside trying to figure out how the heck the
car dealer does get his/her cut. They have to get something substantial or
else why the heck would they be in business? We would all be
foolish to believe that the dealerships are just barely hanging on. There
are too many cars bought and sold to make me believe that. And, it is not
difficult for me to believe that my car produced a net profit somewhere
(split three ways - dealer-sales-Ford) around $10,000.
Come on - it's a beautiful car and I love it more than I can say, but I
paid $31,000 for a fully loaded vehicle (save the Eddie Bauer crap). I am
actually wondering why we are not discussing the gross rate of inflation in
this country, even if it is in just one industry - trucks and SUV's.
The Toyota Land Cruiser is ridiculously overpriced for what you get, as is
the copy LEXUS SUV, and egads - a Range Rover...
I laughed at the Mercedes SUV. They kept contacting me to convince me it
was actually "large."
HA HA. The prices of normal trucks are shocking to me. They have
practically doubled for diesels since 1989. We paid something like $17,000
for it and now they are around $31,000.
Now - my final thought (Jerry Springer must live in my heart) is - did we
not all see the movie
"USED CARS" with Kurt Russell? Huh? If not, may I suggest a trip to the
video store...
And, for all the sales people, just remember - you chose a profession where
you are the front line for abuse. I am sorry for you, truly. Whatever
training is provided, it is usually in favor of the dealership and not the
consumer. I doubt if when you are hired you are told, "the customer is
always right." It is probably more like, "these are proven tips on how to
close the deal...
Here are your handcuffs, coffee, and doughnuts... "
Sorry for the bag-o-wind-itis. Love my Ford.


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 18:27:29 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: 1999 f250 invoice questions

Try using Edmund's. The information is much more detailed and abundant. They
run a great FREE site that requires no 'Plug-Ins' like Carpoint. You can find
them at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.edmunds.com. Edmund's has also got links to Auto-By-Tel.
Auto-By-Tel has done great for some of my friends for getting them no hassle
invoice vehicles.

Good Luck,
Chad


Midwest96 wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-02 18:31:37 EST, you write:
>
> >
>
> Thanks, but address? I don't navigate Microsoft sites, or is this a program?
> TIA
>
> Craig
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 18:42:52 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: Salesmen shenanigans....

Well... you legally HAVE to pay sales tax. I wonder if you may have meant
that, your father had reached a deal including all taxes, titles, and other
associated fees and afterwards was told, "Oops, that didn't include tax!"

Lamar Zabielski wrote:

> >Anyway, a long but true story. I felt I got a pretty decent deal but I'm
> >sure the dealer made his money off it too. I still wonder if it wasn't
> >all just an act, tho.
> >
> >Mark
>
> Reminds me of finding a '69 Mustang Mach I, on a used lot in 1970, my dad
> reached an agreed price, then they tried to add on sale tax.... out the door
> we were ... by the time we were home, there was a msg "Okay; sold at
> original agreement, $2500."
>
> Thanks Mark, for the memory!
> Zeb
>
> ps It is an act, imo
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+



- --
Chad

_________________________________________________________________

Pursuant to US Code Title 47, Ch.5, Sub-ch.II, Sect.227(a)(2)(B), a
computer/modem meet the definition of a telephone fax machine. Pursuant
to Sect.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited
advertisement to such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual
monetary loss or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation. Any
unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a fee
in the amount of $500US per occurance. E-mailing denotes acceptance of
these terms.
_________________________________________________________________

!! O I would rather be...
\O/ _O _O #=\ ___ __ _ _
__#__\#_\#____H_ \ | _ \__ _ / _| |_(_)_ _ __ _
_ ( : \ \ : )(\ | / _` | _| _| | ' \/ _` |
//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|_|_\__,_|_| \__|_|_||_\__, |~~~~~
|| |___/

New River - 1995, 1996, 1997
Fall Gauley - 1997 x-StRe M!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 15:40:49 -0800
From: Paul Laughlin
Subject: Ford truck article

There is an interesting article in the February issue of Popular
Mechanics magazine on the "50 years of the F series Ford trucks. Just
in case anyone on this mail list is interested in these trucks. (VBG)
Paul in Portland OR

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 18:50:05 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: 1999 f250 invoice question

How did you pull off $1500 under invoice? Even the A-Plan for factory
workers is only $1000 under invoice. Oh, and the Superduty's will be '99
models, however you can order them now. They should be in dealerships by
March (98).

Randy Rees wrote:

> I just bought a 1997 F250HD Powerstroke 4x4 and bought it for $1500
> under invoice. I also got a $1700 rebate on top of that. the dealer made
> about $500 as the holdback for that particular truck is $2000 (holdbacks
> change almost daily, and are only in effect at the time the dealer
> orders the truck). I actually saw the invoice and compared that to what
> dealer cost should have been according to MS carpoint and Edmunds, wich
> was within a few hundred dollars. And BTW it will be a while before you
> see end of tyhe year incentives on the 1997 HD and F350's since new ones
> won't be around until 1999.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockinghorse webtv.net [SMTP:rockinghorse webtv.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1998 8:04 AM
> > To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
> > Subject: Re: 1999 f250 invoice question
> >
> > Spoken like a true car calesman,Josh.In my own experience,there is a
> > difference in making a living and screwing somebody. About a year
> > ago,shortly after the intro of the Expedition,I went to my friendly
> > neighborhood Ford dealership to drive one and took my 94 Bronco
> > EB(potential trade- 24,000mi,super clean) with me.After the test
> > drive,Offered them $34,000 for their Black XLT,4X4-the sticker was
> > $38,400. They declined and said they would only accept an offer of
> > $38,000.Then they further insulted me with an offer of $18,000 on my
> > trade,which was clearly low by 2-3,000 bucks.Since then I've seen
> > similar vehicles selling for a little less than I had offered that
> > dealer.I left that dealership and went directly to the GMC
> > dealer,still
> > stunned and disbelieving of the experience I'd had.He infoemed me that
> > for the same money or a little less,he'd gladly sell me a 4x4 Suburban
> > with a big block,simalarly equipped.You tell me where the problem
> > lies.When you buy a non "big ticket item"you don't have to be
> > concerned
> > with the additional cost difference with interest ammortised over the
> > loan duration.Not so with auto purchases.The intent of this post is
> > not
> > to flame you personally,but dealerships in general.You've heard the
> > horror stories yourself.Oh yeah,lest anybody accuse me of traitorous
> > behavior,we are still driving(and very much enjoying) our 94
> > Bronco.The
> > fact that Ford chooses not to produce them anymore,is their loss IMHO.
> > Randy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer
> > --------------+
> > | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net,
> > |
> > | List removal instructions on the website.
> > |
> > +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
> > -----------------+
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+



- --
Chad

_________________________________________________________________

Pursuant to US Code Title 47, Ch.5, Sub-ch.II, Sect.227(a)(2)(B), a
computer/modem meet the definition of a telephone fax machine. Pursuant
to Sect.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited
advertisement to such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual
monetary loss or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation. Any
unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a fee
in the amount of $500US per occurance. E-mailing denotes acceptance of
these terms.
_________________________________________________________________

!! O I would rather be...
\O/ _O _O #=\ ___ __ _ _
__#__\#_\#____H_ \ | _ \__ _ / _| |_(_)_ _ __ _
_ ( : \ \ : )(\ | / _` | _| _| | ' \/ _` |
//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|_|_\__,_|_| \__|_|_||_\__, |~~~~~
|| |___/

New River - 1995, 1996, 1997
Fall Gauley - 1997 x-StRe M!!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 18:53:16 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: Invoice on a 1999

Hey Daryl! I work for Entex too! Anyway, I don't think ANYONE has invoice pricing
on the new Superduties.

daryl rue wrote:

> Ok,
> Thanks for all the info, and sorry to get a controversy going...
>
> If I want to order a truck on Monday, which I want to, Is there a way to get
> invoice pricing without making the dealer show it too me? The internet spots
> take time to update their systems. Does anyone have the exact length in inches
> so I can measure my garage, for the long box crew cab f250 1999 with bumper.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daryl in Omaha.
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:13:54 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #2

I think that if you read any of the other posts on this new 'heated topic'
that you will see there is a lot of supportive posts on the topic's you've
touched. By the way, how do you know better? What are your sources
compared to that of a major publication?

Thanks for your oppinions,
Chad

Bill Funk wrote:

> > From: Chad Royse
> > Subject: Re: 1999 f250 invoice questions
> >
> > Sorry you got so offended, but your bend over and pay what we ask
> > attitude
> > stunk. Many of the Salesman I've worked with had absolutely no
> > hang-ups
> > about working with invoice prices. The other ones sold one less
> > truck.
> > And if you depend on your commission just to feed your kids
> > McDonald's,
> > then PLEASE get a new job for your families sake! Otherwise, quit
> > taking
> > advantage of your family and using them to make your customers feel
> > guilty. Oh, and I was the one who made the $10,000/Expedition claim.
> > I
> > read it out of a TrailerLife several months ago. I was kinda shocked
> > when
> > I saw it.
>
> I've been reading Trailer Life for years.
> I respect their opinions on trailers, and on the tow vehicles they
> evaluate.
> However, I know better than to use the economic figures they toss around
> as gospel, or as anything other than what they actually mean.
> A figure of $10000 per Expedition can not mean net profit. There's
> simply no way that can happen. Not even gross profit could be that high.
> That figure is, in all likelyhood, invoice minus parts costs, as it
> can't also cover the costs of the labor, and certainly not the
> 'headshop' costs of research and design, normal plant costs, and other
> overhead. While I have no doubt that there's more profit in Expedition
> sales than in, say, Contour sales, there's no way it approaches $10,000
> per Expedition. If it did, I'd own a lot of Ford stock, and shut up, sit
> back and rake in the money!
>
> What's also been missing in this thread is the fact that most
> dealerships make their real money from the back end - parts and labor
> out of the shop.
>
> Bill Funk

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:09:06 -0700 (MST)
From: zeb utalk.org (Lamar Zabielski)
Subject: Re: Salesmen shenanigans....LZ

At 06:42 PM 1/4/98 -0800, fordtrucks80up ListService.net wrote:
>Well... you legally HAVE to pay sales tax. I wonder if you may have meant
>that, your father had reached a deal including all taxes, titles, and other
>associated fees and afterwards was told, "Oops, that didn't include tax!"

Hi, Exactley what I meant, back then, 1969, I suppose bookkeeping was more
adjustable, to accomodate the salesman numbers, They learnd and now it's
tuff... blame my dad and me.

Nowday's tho, cause of the sales tax factor, it will still influence a sale.

Bottom line... draw a line in the sand and see who crosses it, imo.

Z Ya,
Zeb

>
>Lamar Zabielski wrote:
>
>> >Anyway, a long but true story. I felt I got a pretty decent deal but I'm
>> >sure the dealer made his money off it too. I still wonder if it wasn't
>> >all just an act, tho.
>> >
>> >Mark
>>
>> Reminds me of finding a '69 Mustang Mach I, on a used lot in 1970, my dad
>> reached an agreed price, then they tried to add on sale tax.... out the door
>> we were ... by the time we were home, there was a msg "Okay; sold at
>> original agreement, $2500."
>>
>> Thanks Mark, for the memory!
>> Zeb
>>
>> ps It is an act, imo
>>
>> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:49:35 EST
From: Penqiun
Subject: fuel line connections

I recently tried to change my fuel filter on my 97 club cab f-series truck. I
couldn't get the couplings off. In fear of breaking the connections a
researched them and found out I need a special tool. Since I have never seen
the connections apart I do not know what the tool would look like. Anybody
know where I could get this tool or how I can fabricate one? Am I barking up
the wrong tree and need more umph! on the lines?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:46:14 -0500
From: Michael Ruth
Subject: Expedition Profit

Not to brag or flame anyone... My father and I went to buy him a 1997
Expedition. My local Large Ford dealer had Eddie Bauers stickered at
around 38,000. The XLT's were at $35-36000. I have never ever seen a,
XLT go for 38,000! WRONG! Anyway, we went to a small local FORD dealer
and they had a demo EDDIE B. Expeditio, CD and all and my father bought
it for 29,995 with only 2000 miles on it. No bickering! Just good ole
service. No this truck was not hit, sunk, stolen, or 2 halves. SO....
If anyone disagrees with me I can take you to two Dealers in Baltimore
that are willing to sell a loaded E.B. Expedition for 32K NEW 30K demo.
I will say that they were a commodity when they came out, but, no XLT's
for $38k.
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:59:44 EST
From: FastRngXLT
Subject: Re: fuel line connections

In a message dated 98-01-04 21:57:26 EST, you write:


I
couldn't get the couplings off. In fear of breaking the connections a
researched them and found out I need a special tool. Since I have never seen
the connections apart I do not know what the tool would look like. Anybody
know where I could get this tool or how I can fabricate one? Am I barking up
the wrong tree and need more umph! on the lines? >>

I have a 96' Ranger and had a hell of a time getting mine off. I could find
any certain tool to get the couplings off so I used a pair of clines to cut
the filter off so I could use a ring expander on it.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 22:12:52 -0500
From: John Turner
Subject: failed torque converter in 1995 ford e150 302V8 E4OD transmission

Hi,
I just bought a 1995 Ford E150 Econoline conversion Van, 302 V8 E4OD
transmission. I took it in for a strange noise coming from under the
truck and was told that I had a bad torque converter. The dealer
replaced it under the drive train warranty that I got with the truck.
After I got it back the transmission took on some new characteristics,
sloppy shifting, revving the engine up after shifting, bbs in a can
sounds coming from under the truck and a high pitched whine. It ran
worse than before I took it in the first time. They have it back now. My
question is should I press them for a new transmission before the
warranty runs out? I have been told that a failed torque converter
almost always trashes an E4OD.

Thanks,
John Turner
turner1132 delphi.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mindspring.com/~turner1132....


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