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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:50:23 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks80up-digest)
To: fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #35
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Sender: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks80up-digest Tuesday, January 27 1998 Volume 02 : Number 035



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
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with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. For help, send
email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: F250 4X4 Front Floor Mats ["Jason M. Lester" ]
Re: F150 popping/creaking revisited ... I fixed mine! ["David J. Baldwin"]
Re: radio buzzing ["David J. Baldwin" ]
Improving the E4OD [alanh galaxy.nsc.com (The Hepburn)]
re: Off Subject but oh-well! [KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)]
Off subject but..oh well! [John Cassis ]
Re: hitch rating [peakbzsrvc juno.com (Mike Mueller)]
Re: '87-'92 F150 questions [Mark Ponsford ]
WD 40 trick ["Casey Vandor" ]
Re: Np435 vs. T-19 [Tyler Abbott ]
Engine swap in an 82 F-150 ["Tom Oxner" ]
For Sale ["Fast Ford" ]
Re: For Sale [ACMERCG ]
ADMIN: MAJOR MILESTONE!! [Ken Payne ]
Re: Hard Tonneau Covers [Midwest96 ]
Re: Off Subject but oh-well! [Midwest96 ]
Re: Off Subject but oh-well! ["Ryan Penner" ]
Re: Off Subject but oh-well! ["Ryan Penner" ]
Re: ADMIN: MAJOR MILESTONE!! [Randy ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:01:12 -0500
From: "Jason M. Lester"
Subject: RE: F250 4X4 Front Floor Mats

I've got the Husky's in my F-250 and they are notched to fit around the
transfer case lever. They come without the notch in case you have a 2WD,
but are scored to make it easy to cut out the notch for the lever. They
fit great and really protect the carpet.

Jason

>It appears that there are only two manufacturers that have taken the time
>to offer a different front floor mat that is actually *molded* to fit
>around the 4x4 lever. "Nifty Products" (a molded drop-in mat lined with OE
>carpet-$71 a pair) and "Fox Weatherboots" (another similar product but with
>a "replacable" center carpet piece-$110 a pair-wow). What I'd really like
>is the Husky floor mat (in all rubber) but they don't have one that is
>molded to fit the 4x4 lever. Has anyone had any experience with any of
>these mats? In spite of what the vendors say, Georgia Red Clay does *not*
>just "hose right off" carpet as Nifty says about cleaning their mats.
>That's why I want an all-rubber variety. Mebbe "cutting the Husky to fit"
>is not that bad. In fact, perhaps they even have a "cut-line" for just
>this purpose? Comments? Druthers?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:29:23 -0600
From: "David J. Baldwin"
Subject: Re: F150 popping/creaking revisited ... I fixed mine!

ACMERCG wrote:

> I'm new to the list and have the creaking problem on my 92' F-150.
> Where did you squirt the oil and what bolts?


The crossmember that supports the transmission. It is connected to the frame
rails on the driver and passenger side, and evidently, this connection point
creaks.

There was a post (my apologies to whoever originally posted it--can't remember
your name--but thanks) that suggested releasing the nut/bolt just enough to
allow you to jack the crossmember up enough to introduce a plastic "shim"
between the frame rail and crossmember. Retighten the nut/bolt and you're
through. This seems like the most permanent fix. The "shim" is cut from the
side of a plastic bottle (like an antifreeze bottle).

I didn't have the time to do this, but couldn't stand it anymore. Thought that
I would just try squirting some oil on the joint. Took two minutes. Although
it didn't immediately disappear, within a week the noise was completely gone.

If you do the oil thing, apply it to the joint where the member and frame
contact each other. I do think think the plastic shim is the best solution,
though.

- --
Best Regards,

Dave Baldwin
Dallas, TX
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:17:35 -0600
From: "David J. Baldwin"
Subject: Re: radio buzzing

Casey Vandor wrote:

> Could you explain the grounding to one source only? I don't see what
> you are saying. Do I need to run a ground to the neg post on the
> battery?Casey

Yes, in essence, that is what I'm saying...although you may not need to
go directly to the post.

Back in the bad old days, they used to have just a ground strap that
went from the battery negative terminal to the engine block. All
returns went to the chassis. After a few decades, the frame and body
start to corrode, and you don't have a very good chassis connection
anymore.

I haven't looked at my '95 to see how the grounds are broken out, but
there should be separate grounds available which actually can be traced
back by WIRE (not chassis) to the negative terminal of the battery.

Batteries have a very low impedance, and it is difficult for anything in
your car to create voltage fluctuations at the battery. Thus, the
closer to the battery (and further removed from other circuit which are
creating transients), the cleaner power supply you will get.

Now, a good stereo will have internal filtering and design for
"power-supply rejection"--the ability of the unit to pass desired signal
and not supply noise. The "power-supply rejection ratio" (PSRR) is the
ratio of signal amplification to power-supply signal amplification at
the output. When shopping for stereo stuff (especially in cars) you
want a BIG number here--like >80dB here.

I am not an automotive stereo expert, so I don't even know if there are
units on the market which specify PSRR. I do know that one must take
care when designing such a component to maximize the PSRR, and it is
most important in automotive applications for reasons you have found. I
would venture a guess that the more expensive units have less problems
with this, and the cheaper ones may have more. Sometimes you get what
you pay for.

Not to say that you can't get the noise out of your system: it just
means that your unit is less tolerant, and you will have the burden of
cleaning up the power and ground path for the unit. Once you do that,
it may sound as good as your brother's $2000 system. Then he'll be
jealous.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

- --
Best Regards,

Dave Baldwin
Dallas, TX
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:49:21 -0800
From: alanh galaxy.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Subject: Improving the E4OD

Well, the response has been overwhelming, so here's a reprint of the
article from the magazine (Here without permission):

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOMB PROOFING FORD's E4OD

Jim Galatioto, founder of ATO, has over 30 years of experience in
working with automatic transmissions. He has devoted much of his career
to developing new parts to improve the performance and longevity of
automatic transmissions and valve bodies, and as a long-time fan of
Ford products, has done extensive development work with the C4 and
C6 units, among others.

Therefore, it was only natural that he would turn his attention to the
Ford E4OD transmission after it became available. In fact, it wasn't
out for too long before he had his first chance to work with one.
Some common problems detected were: broken overdrive planetaries,
blown snap rings off the overdrive clutch pistons, broken gears, worn
out sprags, broken rear sprags, forward clutch rings wiped out,
instability of the center supports, overdrive input shaft broken,
and premature bushing wear.

What ATO has developed over the years is an upgrade that addresses all
of these problems. There is always a reason for a transmission failure,
and once that reason is found, ATO has been able to devise a solution.
Just about every upgrade performed satisfies two requirements: minimize
heat and facilitate the movement of fluid within the system. Friction
is the main cause of heat, and much of ATO's efforts have been devoted
to minimizing unwanted friction within the transmission as much as
possible.

THE UPGRADES

FRONT PUMP: A groove is machined into the cover to enable a locking
seal retainer to replace the crush-fit factory front seal, eliminating
a potentially major hazard. The space between the two pump-suction
inlet holes in the cover has been machined out resulting in a greatly
improved volume of fluid passing through the filter and into the pump.
The passage used to exhaust fluid from the converter when it locks up
is enlarged, providing for a crisper clutch application and less
clutch wear. A small hole is also drilled into the cover to feed the
overdrive sprag assembly with pressurised fluid instead of from the
converter-feed circuitry.

INPUT SHAFT: The turbine input shaft has four slight slots machined
down the length of the shaft, 90 degrees apart, to improve the flow
of fluid into the converter, with less restriction, and out of the
converter when locked up. Facilitating this movement helps keep the
fluid temperature down.

OVERDRIVE PLANETARY: The stock overdrive planetary suffers from
torsional stress, a failure that leaves a vehicle dead in the water.
An inherent weakness of the E4OD; the planetary, which works off of
the turbine input shaft, is made of cast aluminum. ATO machines down
the OD of the planetary neck and presses a sleeve, made of 8620 gear
steel, into place to eliminate this problem.

THRUST WASHERS vs. NEEDLE BEARINGS: Most thrust washers used by Ford
are replaced by needle thrust bearings in the ATO upgrade, minimizing
friction and heat buildup. The rear and front planetaries, which
encounter severe helical-tooth thrust loads, receive bearings. Special
machining must be done to create clearance and register to hold the new
thrust bearings in place.

CAST IRON SEALING RINGS VS. TEFLON SEALING RINGS: Special-formulation
teflon rings replace the stock cast-iron sealing rings on the center
support housing. Virtually frictionless, the teflon rings provide
positive sealing, better heat resistance, and long life. When the OEM
rings wear out, the pressure used to apply the 3rd gear piston drops,
resulting in slipping and burned clutches.

OVERDRIVE INPUT SHAFT NECK: this neck is turned down so a roller
bearing can be installed on the shaft. With the center-support housing
bored out to accomodate this bearing in a slip-fit, the entire rotating
assembly will now have much greater stability.

OVERDRIVE CLUTCH PACK: By machining the rear surface of the overdrive
clutch pack assembly, ATO is able to double the number of clutches and
clutch plates used in the E4OD from two to four, greatly increasing
the clamping force.

COAST CLUTCH PACK: A cut in the coast-clutch pressure plate makes room
for the addition of one more clutch and plate. This assembly is
responsible for handling all of a truck's weight under deceleration
conditions.

3RD GEAR/REVERSE PACK: An extra groove cut into the hub for the 3rd gear/
reverse clutch pack, combined with a little more machining on the seating
surface, allows the installation of one extra clutch plate and clutch disc.

REPLACEMENT CLUTCHES: Replacement Raybestos clutches are more resistant
to heat fatigue, and are used throughout the E4OD upgrade.

OVERDRIVE SPRAG: The overdrive sprag, which works off of the coast clutch,
has a large washer on either side. Holes are drilled into the washer's
surface to help improve fluid flow through the sprag by over 50%.

PARKING GEAR: The parking gear thrust washer is also replaced with a
bearing after the gear is grooved for the bearing to fit. ATO's experience
has revealed that when this factory washer wears and overheats, it tends
to spin and chew up the end of the expensive E4OD case.

VALVE BODY: ATO replaces the stock modulated accumulator assembly with
one of its own design. Eliminating two of the three internal springs, the
remaining spring is tailored for each specific application. The spool
valves are also madified to enhance fluid flow and control. The
accumulator body controls all of the clutch packs. It accumulates
pressure to soften the hit. ATO designed a custom system to
accumulate fluid to control the modulator valve, control the volume of
the fluid going through the system, and make it more progressive.

TORQUE CONVERTER: ATO always replaces the factory converter with a
new, better-grade converter that is furnace-brazed, with bearings instead
of washers, and with the improved clutch lining.

MANY MORE MODIFICATIONS ARE MADE, TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION!

THE ROSTRA LOCKUP DELAY MODULE

This marvelous little electronic module is made by Rostra. This black
box can be utilized to control the speed at which the conterter locks up,
from 30 mph to 50 mph, in 5-mph increments.

With a light throttle, the shift schedule of the E4OD is 1st, 2nd,
converter clutch lockup, 3rd, and then 4th. A moderate-to-heavy throttle
changes the pattern to 1st, 2nd, the converter locks up simultaneously
with 3rd, and then 4th.

By installing this box, you could set the converter lock-up point to
45 mph. Driving around town with a light to moderate throttle, you'll
have 1, 2, 3, 4, lockup. If you are on the throttle, it changes to
1, 2, 3, lock-up, 4. The advantage is you will never get lockup at a
low RPM which lugs down the motor. The Rostra helps keep the engine
well within its torques curve.

A switch can also be installed in the cab, within easy eeach of the
driver, that is used to manually take the converter out of lockup when
conditions warrant. This feature can come in handy, basically providing
and extra, in-between gear when downshifting would wind the motor up
too high, but staying in the same gear is bogging the engine down.

THE ATO COMPANY VEHICLE

The ATO shop vehicle is a cherry 1993 1-ton Ford XLT van with a 460
motor and an E4OD, which received the full ATO treatment after ATO had
a chance to install a transmission temperature gauge, drive it around
for a while, and learn its characteristics. Originally it was easy
to hit fluid temperatures of 225-250 degrees, and now it typically
runs at 140-155 degrees under the same conditions. It also gets 15.5
mpg on the highway, even loaded with parts.

- ----------------------------

After I saw this article, I wrote them for a quote for my 1990 F350
Crew Cab Duallie Diesel and here's what they sent back:

ADVANCED SUPER HEAVY DUTY E4OD TRANSMISSION LABOR $700.00 PARTS $645.00
E40D-3HD+ TORQUE CONVERTER 549.50
LABOR TO REMOVE AND REPLACE 275.00
SOLENOID ASSEMBLY (FORD OEM) 142.13

LABOR TOTAL 975.00
PARTS TOTAL 1336.63
HAZMAT FEE 3.50
SALES TAX 103.59
-------
TOTAL 2418.72

Now that quote is over a year old, so prices might have changed, but
if you're going to be spending a couple of thousand on a rebuild anyway,
you might as well get it done right!

The company is:

ATO PERFORMANCE TRANSMISSION
2660 Mercantile Drive, Suite E
Rancho Cordova, Ca 95742
(916) 636-3283

I'm not associated with them in any way; but I'm impressed with what
they do to the E4OD, and happy to spread the word.

- ---

Alan Hepburn | |
National Semiconductor | DON'T TREAD ON ME |
Santa Clara, Ca | |
alanh galaxy.nsc.com | |

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:26:19, -0500
From: KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)
Subject: re: Off Subject but oh-well!

I agree with Ryan.....Alright BRONCOS!!! I live in MN, and whoever
else understands the border battle between MN and WI will understand.


Josh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:40:51 -0600
From: John Cassis
Subject: Off subject but..oh well!

Right on Broncos!!!!! I live in Houston and we haven't had pro-football =
here for a real long time (even when the oilers were here!) But it was =
nice to see Elway get one.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:07:32 EST
From: peakbzsrvc juno.com (Mike Mueller)
Subject: Re: hitch rating

I have an '89 F-150, 5.8, A/T, Long Bed, Supercab, 4x4 (or simply put...
an 89/1/.8/A/L/SC/4) and I pull a trailer with a car (although it is a
lot lighter than 2800#!). I used to tow with the bumper, but now I have
piece of mind. For $75 at Auto Parts Club, I bought a class 3 hitch that
bolts to the frame and tucks right under the bumper. That and a 6"
drop hitch puts me right where I want to be.
It's worth the $75 bucks.
Just my opinion...

Mike Mueller - Account Manager
Peak Business Services
Equipment Leasing and Funding Programs
Office (510) 274-1720 Fax (510) 944-0782
What can we do for you today?

>Joe mentioned...

> I have a 92' F-150 that used to tow a 1700# trailer and 2800# car....
never had a problem except for the bumper height. Did this all last year
for
racing season, 50 mile drive each way, about 30 trips. All on the stock
bumper.

Joe

acmercg aol.com

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:15:16 -0800
From: Mark Ponsford
Subject: Re: '87-'92 F150 questions

>I am looking to buy a 1987-1992 F150 2 wheel drive truck. I am looking
>for a 302 powered model. I would like to buy one with the 5 speed
>instead of an automatic.
>Can anyone tell me if this 5 speed is similar to a car 5 speed or is
>this transmission like the older granny gear 4 speeds?? What rear end
>gear ratios were available with the 5 speeds and Automatic
>transmissions? 3.55, 3.73, 4.10 ??
>

I've had my '88 F150 302/5spd for about 8yrs. now with out any major
problems. I just recently had the trany lube changed out (~100Km) and it
was all there, just a bit dark/burnt.

There is something that you should probably be aware of about the Mazda
5spd and that is that there are some rubber/plastic vent plugs in the
transmission top side that have a history of deteriating and leaking fluid.
Also, (someone pls confirm this) I think the overdrive is not all that
beefy and has a tendency to blow out if stressed. There was a post awhile
back regarding an overdrive mod that involved removeing a bushing and
replaceing it with a bearing. I was never able to determine what trans this
was for.

I recently replaced the factory P215s rears with P235s and now find that I
hardly ever use OD due to the 3.08 rearend.

My recommendation: This truck hasn't given me any drivetrain problems at
all but if I where shopping, I'd be looking for 3.55 gears.

Check out
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://uviclib.uvic.ca/staff/mponsford/ford_trucks_info/default.html for
specs.


- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Ponsford
Phone: (250) 721-7397

Email: mponsfor uvic.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:53:09 -0900
From: "Casey Vandor"
Subject: WD 40 trick

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD2A50.F8A735A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Could you explain what this does, how to do it???
Casey

>That could be a lot of things, George, but I'd check for a vacuum leak
>somewhere. Maybe a hose off, or a leak around the intake somewhere; use
>the old WD-40 trick to find it, if you can.

>Bill Funk

- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD2A50.F8A735A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






http-equiv=3DContent-Type>



Could you explain what this does, =
how to do=20
it???
Casey
 
>That could be a lot of things, =
George, but=20
I'd check for a vacuum leak>somewhere. Maybe a hose off, or a =
leak around=20
the intake somewhere; use>the old WD-40 trick to find it, if you=20
can.>Bill Funk 

- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD2A50.F8A735A0--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:26:32 -0800
From: Tyler Abbott
Subject: Re: Np435 vs. T-19

At 04:01 PM 11/17/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Not sure who else was looking for this info. I called this guy Ed
>Hartnett who has a 4spd shop in Pa. He told me
>
>NP435 has a 6.68 first gear, 2-4 synchonized, funky 3-4 synchronizer
>sub-assembly with 3rd gear possibly popping out.
>
>T-18 has a 13-01 casting in side of case. Could have 4.32 or 6.32 first
>gear. Does not have 3rd gear popping out problem.
>
>T-19, identical to T-18, except first gear is snychronized. Only way to
>tell is open case and look.
>
> He said he has not seen any major problems with breakage on either
>trans. My 78 Bronco had the NP 435 and the 79 Bronco trans I bought is
>either a T-18 or T-19, not sure of first gear ratio yet.
>
> I have not had any problems with 3rd gear popping out on NP435. I did
>rebuild it at 150K miles and have had a 3-2 downshift problem recently.
>
> I guess I am sticking with the NP435, because it has the lowest first
>gear, even lower than I thought.
>
> OX
>
That all sound about right to me. I've got the NP435's ratios (6.69, 3.34,
1.66, 1.00), are the T18/T19's the same 2nd and 3rd gear? Are only the
T-19's (first gear syncro) 4.32 ratio?
Thanks
- -Tyler-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:34:03 CST6CDT
From: "Tom Oxner"
Subject: Engine swap in an 82 F-150

I have an 82 F-150 with the 302 V8 and the fourspeed overdrive
transmission (manual) and a 3.50 rear end ratio. It is a great old
truck. Among other things, I use it to tow a car trailer. I recently
bought a used enclosed trailer and is is heavier and has a great deal
more wind resistance. I have been thinking about an engine swap to a
larger engine and perhaps an automatic transmission. Will the 400 and
429 cu in engines ( I know that these are different families of
engines) bolt in? Has anyone done this swap? Any advice would be
appreciated.
As for changing to the automatic transmission, I think that I would
have to change the radiator as well. I would probaly have to change
the steering column to get the column mounted gearshift to work out.
I would like to avoid the later model electronically controlled
transmissions as I would prefer to not have to rewire for the
necessary control items. Again, any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks for any help.
Tom Oxner

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:37:10 -0600
From: "Fast Ford"
Subject: For Sale

I have some parts for sale off of my 1994 F-150 Lightning.

- -Red Tube Rear bumper - Fresh paint - $150 + shipping

- -Set of 4 - 17" Lightning wheels, Ex Cond., taken off with just 5k miles on
truck - $700 + shipping, brand new from SVO these wheels are $350 each

- -Stock Lightning Throttle Body w/ spacer - $150 + shipping

Thanks,

David Addison

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:15:18 EST
From: ACMERCG
Subject: Re: For Sale

looking for interior parts...seats, cluster ...do the seats in lightnings have
lumbar?


Joe

acmercg aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:17:09 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: MAJOR MILESTONE!!

Tonight at 8:55pm Ford Truck Enthusiasts hit a major milestone:
100,000 visitors!!! Thanks to everyone for making us a success!

Ken & Peggy Payne
Admins, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:30:12 EST
From: Midwest96
Subject: Re: Hard Tonneau Covers

In a message dated 98-01-25 23:59:43 EST, you write:


gas mileage changed after they added the cover. Thank-you. John >>

Soft cover increase average of just under 3.5

Craig

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:30:38 EST
From: Midwest96
Subject: Re: Off Subject but oh-well!

In a message dated 98-01-26 00:08:44 EST, you write:



okay... now back to fords.

Ryan Penner
Denver
>>

But a Bronco is a Ford :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:50:41 -0700
From: "Ryan Penner"
Subject: Re: Off Subject but oh-well!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Heater6ix9
To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: Off Subject but oh-well!


>you dont have to rub it in now do you??

You Better Belive IT!!!!
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
>| List removal instructions on the website. |
>+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:58:19 -0700
From: "Ryan Penner"
Subject: Re: Off Subject but oh-well!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Midwest96
To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Off Subject but oh-well!


>In a message dated 98-01-26 00:08:44 EST, you write:
>
>
>
> okay... now back to fords.
>
> Ryan Penner
> Denver
> >>
>
>But a Bronco is a Ford :)
>
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
>| List removal instructions on the website. |
>+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

Yes Denver would have had a field day with Bronco Trucks had ford not been
so stupid and stopped making them. Instead replacing them with a big....

---

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