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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:50:30 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks80up-digest)
To: fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #23
Reply-To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks80up-digest Friday, January 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 023



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
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with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. For help, send
email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Flaming Alternator [Ken Rains ]
Re: Flaming Alternator [Robert Hurley ]
Re: Flaming Alternator [Robert ]
Ohio Lemon - Josh? [Chad Royse ]
re Tires Chains [Nathaniel Ingersoll ]
Re: clutch size ["Dave Resch"]
SUSPENSION [Eric W Sneed ]
1999 SuperDuty Questions [alanh galaxy.nsc.com (The Hepburn)]
re: Ohio Lemon - Josh? [KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)]
Re: 1999 SuperDuty Questions [John Yee ]
Suspension [John Cassis ]
re: 1999 SuperDuty Questions [KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)]
Toyota [John Cassis ]
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #21 [WHRanger93 ]
Toys [John Cassis ]
re: Toyota [KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)]
Re: SUSPENSION [Lt 4x4 ]
Diesel ["Ryan Penner" ]
ADMIN: Java chat is alive! [Ken Payne ]
Re: ADMIN: Java chat is alive! [Randy ]
Re: ADMIN: Java chat is alive! [Ken Payne ]
Re: Toyota [Heater6ix9 ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:55:03 -0800
From: Ken Rains
Subject: Flaming Alternator

8 months ago, I bought my first Ford truck. It's a '92 F150 4x4 =
extended cab with a 302 (now has about 60,000 miles). Since then I have =
been monitoring this list and I now have a compelling reason to call =
upon the list members' expertise and experience.

4 months ago my alternator went out. There is a local shop that will =
match any parts house price and do installation for free with a lifetime =
warranty. I know it's an extremely simple task to replace, but I =
figured as long as it's free . . . Bad choice. Last week it went out =
again, so I took it back there and a in couple hours I was on my way =
again. Yesterday morning on my way to work I started smelling something =
burning, that electrical wire insulation smell. The battery light on =
the dash came on and I immediately pulled over and shut the engine off. =
I popped the hood and there were literally flames coming out of the =
alternator (if you don't carry a fire extinguisher, get one!). To make =
an already long story a little shorter, luckily nothing else caught on =
fire, but I'm now left with a charred alternator and wondering what to =
do. Of course, I could take it back to the same place, but how dumb is =
that? They say that these alternators have a design flaw that causes =
them to get hot and catch on fire.

My question for you fellow list members is this: Have any of you heard =
of, or experienced an alternator actually catching on fire? I find it =
incredibly hard to believe that this is a common thing.

Ken Rains
Ken tally.com
'92 F150

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:04:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Hurley
Subject: Re: Flaming Alternator

Yes, I have a 1991 F150 and recently replaced the alternator and was=20
informed the warranty would be voided if the harness was not replaced=20
with the one provided by the parts manufacturer as the plastic connector=20
will vibrate loose from the alternator if not replaced.

He is risen and coming again :)

Robert Hurley p001393b pb.seflin.org


On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Ken Rains wrote:

> 8 months ago, I bought my first Ford truck. It's a '92 F150 4x4 extended=
cab with a 302 (now has about 60,000 miles). Since then I have been monit=
oring this list and I now have a compelling reason to call upon the list me=
mbers' expertise and experience.
>=20
> 4 months ago my alternator went out. There is a local shop that will mat=
ch any parts house price and do installation for free with a lifetime warra=
nty. I know it's an extremely simple task to replace, but I figured as lon=
g as it's free . . . Bad choice. Last week it went out again, so I took i=
t back there and a in couple hours I was on my way again. Yesterday mornin=
g on my way to work I started smelling something burning, that electrical w=
ire insulation smell. The battery light on the dash came on and I immediat=
ely pulled over and shut the engine off. I popped the hood and there were =
literally flames coming out of the alternator (if you don't carry a fire ex=
tinguisher, get one!). To make an already long story a little shorter, luc=
kily nothing else caught on fire, but I'm now left with a charred alternato=
r and wondering what to do. Of course, I could take it back to the same pl=
ace, but how dumb is that? They say that these alternators have a design f=
law that causes them to get hot and catch on fire.
>=20
> My question for you fellow list members is this: Have any of you heard o=
f, or experienced an alternator actually catching on fire? I find it incre=
dibly hard to believe that this is a common thing.
>=20
> Ken Rains
> Ken tally.com
> '92 F150
>=20
>=20
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+
>=20

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:48:42 -0800
From: Robert
Subject: Re: Flaming Alternator

Ken Rains wrote:

> My question for you fellow list members is this: Have any of you heard of, or experienced an alternator actually catching on fire? I find it incredibly hard to believe that this is a common thing.
>
> Ken Rains
> Ken tally.com
> '92 F150

My brother-in-laws '90 Bronco's alt went out this year and the replacement one came with a new plug which I believe is to remedy this problem. You have to cut off the old plug to wire on the new one. If we didn't use the new plug, then it would have voided the warranty on the new alternator.

Robert

- --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:20:43 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Ohio Lemon - Josh?

I am having trouble doing a trade assist. My vehicle qualifies for
the lemon law in Ohio on 3 counts. Ford wants to do a trade assist.
I don't care how they do it I want a new truck. However, the trade
assist seems to be costing me big $$$. SOOO, I may choose to lemon
it. In Ohio I would get back, all payments including taxes, down
payment, trade-in equity, time missed from work for repairs, fair
market value for any installed (and not removable) accessories, and
any other fees associated with the purchase. Ford can keep some money
for time and usage of the truck.

Here's my question (Josh?): What is time and usage? How can I figure
out what Ford gets to keep? I really need to know this!!

Thanks,
Chad

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:37:24 -0800
From: Nathaniel Ingersoll
Subject: re Tires Chains

I bought some tire chains to fit 33x12.5x16.5 from BigO tires.
Granted, they cost a lot (I believe about $90 - it was a year
ago) but these
things are HEAVY duty, and yeah, they fit.

N.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:50:07 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: clutch size

>From: "Casey Vandor"
>Subject: clutch size
>
>I have a 1983 351 Windsor with a Warner T-18 4 spd manual.
>Also 4x4. How can I find out what size clutch I have without
>taking the tranny back and looking?

Yo Casey:

The 351W in an F250 should have an 11" clutch disk, if it is the original
factory configuration. The only way to know for certain, though, would be
to pull the transfer case, transmission, and bell housing.

If you don't now have an 11" clutch, you could upgrade to an 11" clutch
anyway. If you're getting a new disk and pressure plate, just specify the
11" size. The only possible problem w/ this is if the 11" pressure plate
won't fit on your flywheel. If that happens, you either replace the
flywheel or go w/ whatever fits.

> The door sticker and VIN number are still there, but I don't
>know what the codes are on the tags. Is there a code for clutch
>size? I need a new clutch here real soon, and napa said it was

As far as I know, there is no code for clutch size. Clutch size is usually
determined by the engine (302, 351, 460, etc.) and application ( Bronco,
F150, F250, 4x4 or 4x2, etc.)

>Has anyone put in eaither a
>centerforce II or centerforce dual friction? Did you like it?
I've heard from guys using them that Centerforce II and Dual Friction
clutches require higher pedal effort than the OEM clutch. An alternative
to a complete Centerforce system would be to use an OEM pressure plate
assembly and a Centerforce disk, if you really want to pay that much more
for the disk or believe that there is some worthwhile advantage to be had.

All those options may not be worthwhile, though, unless you're seriously
anticipating some major mud bogging or extra heavy-duty hauling (way beyond
your truck's normal operating parameters).

In the long run, I don't believe that the Centerforce would give you any
better durability than OEM-type components in exchange for the increased
pedal effort and double (or more) the cost. Moreover, a higher pedal
effort will increase the wear and tear on your clutch linkage as well.

Back in August/September, I replaced the clutch on my F250 4x4 (w/ 351M)
and I had to rebuild the entire clutch linkage (all the way to the bracket
that holds the clutch and brake pedals under the dash) because I let my old
clutch go way too far. The pedal effort got harder and harder because the
pressure plate release mechanism was disintegrating. I finally had to
replace it when the release fingers on the pressure plate wore down so much
that the throw-out bearing popped right through without releasing the
clutch (ouch!!). If you have any more clutch questions, feel free to ask.
I've been there and done that.

BTW: I think Ford discontinued the Warner T18 in its trucks in the mid
'70s. The 4-speed manual you have is probably a New Process 435. It can
be identified by the metal tag held under two bolts on the inspection plate
on the right side of the transmission. The number 435 by itself appears
somewhere on that tag. Another identifier would be the cast aluminum top
cover/shift tower with the New Process logo (the letters NP inside a gear).

Good luck.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:57:57 -0800
From: Eric W Sneed
Subject: SUSPENSION

I have a 89 f150 4x4, I want to level the ride height.No major lift,
just want the front end level with the rear. I have seen leveling coils
offered in a catolog, but can't recall where i had seen them.
I want to raise the front as apposed to lowering the rear, I intend on
putting 32 inch all terrain tires on my truck.

Does anyone know where i might be able to locate this type of coil
springs.

Also any other suggestion or info on how to level this truck properly,
Don't want any alignment or suspension problems.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thank You Eric S

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:11:40 -0800
From: alanh galaxy.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Subject: 1999 SuperDuty Questions

Well, I saw the price list posted earlier, and it looks like
it's time to go back to the dealer and start talking. First
I have some questions about the F450/F550 trucks. I'm
interested in a Crew Cab, long bed, duallie for pulling a fifth
wheel in the 11,000 lb area, and as a daily driver. Here's my questions:

1. THe F450 is available with a bed while the F550 is cab/chassis
only. Will an F450 bed fit on the F550? If I ask a dealer to
install a bed on an F550 to make a sale, will I get laughed out
of the office?

2. What's the GCWR of the F450 and the F550? What's the unladen
weight of each? Would the difference between the two disappear
once a bed is added to the F550? In other words, would an F450
end up with more towing capacity than an F550 with a bed added?

3. Is ABS standard on each, can I get it deleted if I want?

4. Can I delete the air bag if I want?

5. Does the instrumentation package include real gauges, or the
current gauge simulations that Ford uses? If they're the regular
Ford gauges, can I have them relaced with real gauges? For the
diesel, does the gauge package include EGT?

6. What's the expected lifetime of the whole system? I know the
diesel engine is long-lived, but how about the rest of the truck?
My current truck, a 1990, is starting to nickel and dime me;
door hinges breaking from metal fatigue, windshield washer pump
quitting, vacuum pump quitting, door locks and windows quitting,
etc. I've heard, and read, that the average comsumer replaces
his vehicle an average of once every 3.5 years, and the manufacturers
design their products with that in mind. I'm looking for a truck
that I can reasonably expect to be the last truck I buy. That's
one reason I'm looking at medium duty trucks as well as pickups;
business class trucks seem to be built for the long haul rather
than the person who trades every few years.

Josh (or anyone else!); if you have answers, or opinions, on any of
these questions, or any other questions I haven't asked yet, feel free
to jump in!

Thanks.

Alan Hepburn | |
National Semiconductor | DON'T TREAD ON ME |
Santa Clara, Ca | |
alanh galaxy.nsc.com | |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:48:06, -0500
From: KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)
Subject: re: Ohio Lemon - Josh?

Chad,

Sorry, I don't know what Ford gets to keep. Maybe they see getting
the truck back as something good, for some reason. You should lemon
it if you get everything back, especially if a trade assist will cost
you big bucks.
Sorry I can't help,

Josh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:01:31 -0800
From: John Yee
Subject: Re: 1999 SuperDuty Questions

Ohhh a chance to answer questions for you instead of asking :-).

I thought the F450/550 was chassis cab only. As for bed availablity,
I've heard no specifics,but have seen pictures of aftermarket conversions.
Check with the aftermarket sources that Mission Valley uses.

GCWR exceeds 20,000 lbs, but of course it depends on the final gearing
(PSD being a given). While I believe you may favor the manual, I believe the
auto has better tow capacities overall, according to the trailering information.

See the meadowland pointer below for tow info.

I believe the above 10,000 GVWR come standard with ABS.

According to some F350 information I have, air bags are a deletable item.
I'd *guess* this is true for the F450/550 as well.

Guages are presumed to have standard ford issue stuff.
I've seen no references for an EGT options via ford.
(looks like GM may make it an option in their 99 trucks)

As for longevity, we can only hope. Afterall it's first year run
as well.

Some sites below, are my reference points for above information:

(F450/550 order info (no prices))
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www./scripts/foxweb.exe/prices_model car\cars?MAKE=Ford

(pictures and tow info)
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.meadowlandford.com/
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.meadowlandford.com/traileri.htm

(review of 4R100 transmission development)
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ford.com/motorsport/2-6tech.html

(review of Super Duty trucks)
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.truckworld.com/Truck-Tests/99-F-Series/f-series.html


I also had posted some info on axles and transfer case and gear ratios.
Let me know if you need a copy in the event it "got lost in the mail".

- -john


>Well, I saw the price list posted earlier, and it looks like
>it's time to go back to the dealer and start talking. First
>I have some questions about the F450/F550 trucks. I'm
>interested in a Crew Cab, long bed, duallie for pulling a fifth
>wheel in the 11,000 lb area, and as a daily driver. Here's my questions:
>
>1. THe F450 is available with a bed while the F550 is cab/chassis
> only. Will an F450 bed fit on the F550? If I ask a dealer to
> install a bed on an F550 to make a sale, will I get laughed out
> of the office?
>
>2. What's the GCWR of the F450 and the F550? What's the unladen
> weight of each? Would the difference between the two disappear
> once a bed is added to the F550? In other words, would an F450
> end up with more towing capacity than an F550 with a bed added?
>
>3. Is ABS standard on each, can I get it deleted if I want?
>
>4. Can I delete the air bag if I want?
>
>5. Does the instrumentation package include real gauges, or the
> current gauge simulations that Ford uses? If they're the regular
> Ford gauges, can I have them relaced with real gauges? For the
> diesel, does the gauge package include EGT?
>
>6. What's the expected lifetime of the whole system? I know the
> diesel engine is long-lived, but how about the rest of the truck?
> My current truck, a 1990, is starting to nickel and dime me;
> door hinges breaking from metal fatigue, windshield washer pump
> quitting, vacuum pump quitting, door locks and windows quitting,
> etc. I've heard, and read, that the average comsumer replaces
> his vehicle an average of once every 3.5 years, and the manufacturers
> design their products with that in mind. I'm looking for a truck
> that I can reasonably expect to be the last truck I buy. That's
> one reason I'm looking at medium duty trucks as well as pickups;
> business class trucks seem to be built for the long haul rather
> than the person who trades every few years.
>
>Josh (or anyone else!); if you have answers, or opinions, on any of
>these questions, or any other questions I haven't asked yet, feel free
>to jump in!
>
>Thanks.
>
>Alan Hepburn | |
>National Semiconductor | DON'T TREAD ON ME |
>Santa Clara, Ca | |
>alanh galaxy.nsc.com | |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:59:56 -0600
From: John Cassis
Subject: Suspension

Eric,

I level'd out my 93' 4x4 Ranger with new springs and camber bushings =
from Superlift. Look in some of the 4x4 mags and you will find they have =
a lot of suspension parts for 2x4's as well as for 4x4's. I'm pretty =
shure all you will need are new springs, camber bushings, and longer =
shocks. It cost me about $500. Also if you do this spend a little extra =
and get a steering stabalizer. Realy helps with the larger size tires =
you are going to run. Of corse I could be way off on that, I know it =
helps on the smaller trucks. I am assuming it will do the same for your =
full size. Anyway hope this sends you in the right direction.

John Cassis
The Danger Ranger
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:06:48, -0500
From: KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)
Subject: re: 1999 SuperDuty Questions

Here are some anwsers:

1. The F450 and F550 both are cab/chassis only. The cab chassis
have flat frame rails on the rear, and I don't know yet if the F-350
pcikups do. If the F-350 duallies have flat frame rails in which the
box mounts on, the F-550 chassis will have to be cut about 4" and
then it will work fine.

2. The F-450 and F-550 chassis have the same towing capacities. The
F-550 is actually a bit less just because it weighs more. I don't
have the GCWR, but the GVWR of each is 15,000# for the F-450 and 17,
500# or 19,000# for the F-550. I have some base curb weights: For
the F550 crew cab with the V10 and auto, it is about 6685 lbs for the
4x2 and 7015 lbs for the 4x4. The F-450 crew cab with the V10 and
auto is 6581for 4x2 and 6911 for 4x4. The diesel adds around 700 lbs.


3. There is rear ABS standard and they are front and rear discs.

4. The air bag is standard on drivers side an optional on passengers
side with a on/off switch. It cannot be deleted.

5. They are the standard Ford instrument packages. Maybe there will
be aftermarket companies that will make real guages. Sorry, but I
dont understand "EGT."

6. Ford expects these to last a long time. After a certain number of
years, little things will fail. Door hinges wear out from used, some
electrics need repair or replace. These things just happen. If you
don't want to worry about some of these problems, you should get
manual locks and window and no cruise and stuff like that. It also
depends on driver use/abuse. If you take care of the truck, it will
take care of you. If you start to beat on it, it will beat on you
(your wallet).

I hope this helps.

Josh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:09:17 -0600
From: John Cassis
Subject: Toyota

If your going to compare Toys to Fords go grab the door on one of those =
toy trucks and slam it. BE REAL CAREFUL WHEN YOU DO THIS. Might break =
something. Now go slam the door on your Ranger. Also might as well knock =
on the metal on your Ranger and then on the metal on the toy. ONCE AGAIN =
BE REAL CAREFUL when doing this to the toy, might cause damage. Who =
cares what toys got under the hood, I'd rather drive a Ranger any day =
over some little tin-can with a motor in it. You never know when you =
might be involved in an accident, and I'd rather have some metal =
protecting me than one of those toys that have skin on them thats thin =
as paper. I mean realy, you slam the door to hard you might break it. =
Anyway just my 2 cents worth on those little toy trucks you guys are =
doing motor comparisons on.

John Cassis
The Danger Ranger
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:12:40 EST
From: WHRanger93
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V2 #21

When am I going to get onto the list what do I still have to do?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:58:26 -0600
From: John Cassis
Subject: Toys

Ok c'mon guys is it that important, afterall we are a ford list not the =
"rice runner list" hehehehe. Lets talk FORDS!! Who care's what those =
little jap-crap trucks are powerd by.

John Cassis
The Danger Ranger
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:29:52, -0500
From: KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)
Subject: re: Toyota

John,

good point. I was just commenting that someone said something about
a 4 cyl. with 160 hp. I had to check it out. Even the chebbys are
like that. Dakotas are more solid than the latter, but Ford is still
better. Have you ever compared dash layouts for driver comfort? Ford
always has a much better and user friendly design.

I do agree that Ford should do something to the 4.0L to make it
compare with the higher HP V6's even though the torque is pretty much
even. For now, I'm gonna enjoy smokin the tires with my 4.0L.

Josh

'98 reg cab s/b 4x2 4.0 stick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:39:44 EST
From: Lt 4x4
Subject: Re: SUSPENSION

You may be interested in an "add-a-leaf" kit. There are several manufactures
such as Rancho. You can find them locally I'm sure, but here's a web site
full of neat stuff.

www.4wheelparts.com

Jeff
97 F-350, 4x4, CC, PSD

In a message dated 98-01-15 13:00:08 EST, you write:


just want the front end level with the rear. I have seen leveling coils
offered in a catolog, but can't recall where i had seen them.
I want to raise the front as apposed to lowering the rear, I intend on
putting 32 inch all terrain tires on my truck.

Does anyone know where i might be able to locate this type of coil
springs.

Also any other suggestion or info on how to level this truck properly,
Don't want any alignment or suspension problems.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thank You Eric S
>>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:26:02 -0700
From: "Ryan Penner"
Subject: Diesel

Why is it that a Ch*vy can have their Diesel engine in the 1500? But in
order to get one from Ford you have to have a 250 HD? Is it because ch*vy
puts heavier duty springs up front or what?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:23:38 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Java chat is alive!

Java chat on the web site is now alive. The old slow and
flickery CGI is history.

One known problem with it: it doesn't redraw the screen
in Netscape until after a user types a message if you
switch Netscape to the background and back to the foreground.

Enjoy! And I'll see everyone Saturday night for our 1st
Anniversary chat party.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:26:37 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Java chat is alive!

Ken Payne wrote:
>
> Java chat on the web site is now alive. The old slow and
> flickery CGI is history.
>
> One known problem with it: it doesn't redraw the screen
> in Netscape until after a user types a message if you
> switch Netscape to the background and back to the foreground.
>
Ok, I already hate the new chat Java format. I don't have Java
capabilities apparently. I though Netscape 3.01 had it, but maybe only
w/Win95 and not 3.11. Oh man, and I was looking forward to it too.
Bummin' in Ohio,
Randy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:34:26 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Java chat is alive!

Make sure in Options/Network Preferences/Languages that Java
enables. Netscape supports Java on all platforms.


At 01:26 AM 1/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Ken Payne wrote:
>>
>> Java chat on the web site is now alive. The old slow and
>> flickery CGI is history.
>>
>> One known problem with it: it doesn't redraw the screen
>> in Netscape until after a user types a message if you
>> switch Netscape to the background and back to the foreground.....


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