fordtrucks80up-digest Friday, May 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 153



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

buying 91 ford f250 4x4 ["Ronald Kreft" ]
Re: Buying 91 ford f250 4X4 [JDavis1277 ]
Re: engines ["Dave Resch" ]
Tranny Q - First Posting ["Kris Cowling" ]
Re: Springs and gearboxen ["Dave Resch" ]
Vin / Door Label Decoding [Steve Faust ]
Re: Vin / Door Label Decoding ["Rick Wojciechowski"
Re: Springs and gearboxen [Warren Auld ]
RE: Stock Carb vs. Holley Projection. ["Posluszny, Walt (posl)"
Axle/T-case/Tranny Info [Steve Faust ]
Strange Problem ["LARRY W. NASH" ]
RE: Strange Problem ["Jose A. Fernandez" ]
PowerStroke fuel milage ["Larry Titus" ]
antifreeze leak ["Casey Vandor" ]
Re: PowerStroke fuel milage [JSCF250 ]
Re: antifreeze leak [Robert Kennedy ]
Re: Rotors&stuff [FordboyDZ ]

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Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:24:28 -0400
From: "Ronald Kreft"
Subject: buying 91 ford f250 4x4

Jay,
For your #2 questions about the OD use:
On the 302's with OD that I have had, I have always locked out the OD in =
town. The shifting point for OD is around the 45-50 mph range so I locked =
it out when below that speed. If it was a long stretch of road when you =
are doing about 50 mph I let it shift into OD. Also I've had no trouble =
towing a light trailer (motorcycles or small boats) while in OD. If the =
transmission is constantly shifting in and out of OD lock the OD out. =20

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:56:38 EDT
From: JDavis1277
Subject: Re: Buying 91 ford f250 4X4

I have a 90 4X2. Otherwise my truck is much as you describe your 91. I added
the ATS turbo and large exhaust to my truck and the performance is super.
Around town the E4OD won't shift into OD below about 37 MPH. Once it shifts
to OD I can slow to about 33 MPH without causing a downshift. I DO use OD
around town. I use the truck mainly to tow a 30' 5th wheel camper. I always
use OD on the highway when towing. If the terrain is exceptionally hilly for
a long distance I will disengage the OD to avoid hunting between OD and 3rd.
Generally, I set the cruise control at about 68 and keep on trucking. I
really like the truck and the transmission. Ford updated the shift computer
and replaced mine while it was in for service. They also extended the
warranty on the computer. With the E4OD you get some slight engine or
driveline deceleration until you get down to around 35 MPH. My transmission
stopped doing that and just freewheeled right down to idle speed. Took it in
and Ford replaced it. Something about a TSB on a check valve malfunction.
Since my transmission was an early model with the valve internal to the
casting it was replaced. Later transmissions with external valves just got a
new valve. The only serious malfunction on this truck has been repeated right
front brake caliper failures (won't release, get HOT as hell, etc). Happened
3 times in slightly over a year. Replaced the caliper and brake lines,
flushed system and put in fresh fluid and have been problem free for almost a
year. All in all its been a great truck and I have no complaints with the
E4OD. I do recommend an aftermarket turbo for serious towing. Good luck &
enjoy, Butch Davis-

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:26:05 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: engines

>From: Batst bmw
>Subject: engines
>
>I am wondering what the cubic inches are for the 6.6
>liter,and is this a big block or small block?

Yo Batst bmw:

The 6.6L was Ford's metric designation for the 400. The 400 is a member of
the 335 engine family, which also includes the 351 Cleveland (351C) and the
351M. The 351M (also called 5.8M) is identical to the 400, except for the
crankshaft (0.50" shorter stroke) and pistons (0.29" taller compression
height).

The 351M/400 engines were produced in more numbers than any other Ford V8
engine from 1977 to 1982. The first 335 series engine, the 351C was first
used in cars in 1970 (never in trucks, except Rancheros). The 400 was
first used in cars in 1971 and first used in trucks in 1977. The 351M was
first used in cars in 1975 (after the 351C was discontinued in 1974) and
first used in trucks in 1977. From 1980-on, the 351M and 400 were
truck-only engines, not used in cars. 1983 was the last year they were
used in trucks.

Ford considered these engines small blocks, but they are not related to the
90 degree small block family (289, 302/5.0, 351W/5.8) and they are
considerably bigger and heavier. Internally, their design (oiling system,
water jacket, etc.) is similar to the 385 big block engines (429, 460), but
again, the dimensions are different (smaller) and they are not as weighty.

>Also does a 1982 F-250 xl 4x4 6.6 liter come from the
>factory with catalytic converter?

The cut-off GVW for catalytic converters was 8500 lbs. If your truck's
data sticker (in the drivers side door jamb) shows a GVW of less than 8500
lbs, then it was originally equipped w/ a catalytic converter. All regular
cab F250 4x4s from 1980 to 1983 were rated at less than 8500 lbs GVW. Some
Super Cab F250 4x4s in that same vintage were also rated at less than 8500
lbs GVW.

Good luck w/ your truck.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 11:11:26 PDT
From: "Kris Cowling"
Subject: Tranny Q - First Posting

Hello Everyone:

I've been lurking on the List for quite some time now to get a feel for the
flavor of this List and I like what I've read so far, a good bunch of
people talking trucks and helping each other. I've got two questions that
have been on my mind for some time, so here goes:

I've got a 1994 F-150 4x4 SuperCab that I ordered new in April of 1994
(took delivery in June 1994). My truck has the 5.0 Litre V8 with the
4-speed automatic overdrive transmission and a 3.55 rear axle. My question
concerns the harshness of the shifting. The 1-2 shift isn't bad, but 2-3
is a bit of jolt (not what one would call smooth), and 3-OD is a real
neck-jerker, especially bad when the engine (and, therefore, the
transmission also) are cold. It shifts like that under mild acceleration,
moderate acceleration, or heavy-footed acceleration; it doesn't seem to
matter. I'm normally a mild-to-moderate-acceleration kind of driver. It
has done this since new, and three different Ford dealers have all told me
that it is just the way these trucks shift. I find it hard to believe
because I've driven some real beat-up rental Ford trucks (Ryder moving
trucks) that shift as smooth as silk.

Additionally, I wonder about the operation of the Cruise Control... When I
tap the brakes to slow down for something and then depress the RESUME
button, the truck will calmly accelerate until it gets to about 1 or 2 mph
less than the pre-set speed. At that point, it will downshift and
accelerate full-speed for the half-a-second it takes to reach the pre-set
speed and then **slam** back into overdrive. I gotta believe this is not
good for the transmission, so I stopped using the resume feature long ago;
now I just push the pedal until I get back up to speed and then hit the
resume button.

Other than those two items, I really do love my truck!

Any comments or advice? Anyone with similar experience? Thanks.

- --Kris Cowling - Winneconne, Wisconsin
1994 Ford F-150 4x4 SuperCab
1989 Mercedes-Benz 420SEL
1978 Mercedes-Benz 240D
Member - Piston Pounders, Neenah, Wisconsin
Member - Mercedes-Benz of America, Milwaukee

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:51:25 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: Springs and gearboxen

>From: Warren Auld
>Subject: Re: Springs and gearboxen
>
>Now that I know what I'm looking for when I get to the junk
>yard, how do I judge the likely condition of the transmission
>and transfer case? I recognize there's an element of luck
>involved and plan to rebuild them (it's a form of educational
>entertainment for me). Is external inspection along with
>working the shifters and twirling the shafts enough or should I
>plan to pull the access covers (not that I'd know what to look
>for -- broken teeth I guess)?

Yo Warren:

Rebuilding gearboxes can be very entertaining and educational! So can
looking at them in the junkyard. Internal cleanliness is critical in a
gearbox, so keep that in mind even while you examine them in a junkyard.
Be careful not to introduce any foreign matter or contaminants into the
gearbox while you are inspecting it. You can fool yourself and ruin a good
piece for someone else.

When I look at these things in the bone yards, I like to bring along some
cleaning supplies and tools. A good degreaser (e.g., Gunk) is useful along
w/ stiff brushes and chisels or scrapers. Bring plenty of clean rags. I
also bring a cheap extendable pocket magnetic pickup tool to fish around
for stray parts and a flashlight (a pocket pen light is perfect) to look
around inside the case.

I prefer the yards where I can browse around the vehicles and pull the
parts myself. That way, while making the initial examination (before I get
out the cleaners) I can look at the whole vehicle (much like I would a used
car) and observe signs of abuse and neglect. Those will help direct me
when I start looking closer at the gear boxes. A thrashed vehicle will be
more likely to have serious problems in the gearboxes.

Even the most thorough external examination will basically only tell you
that the case is not cracked or broken (a good first sign!). The cleaning
supplies can help you confirm this. I have seen some nasty irrepairable
cracks hiding under years of grunge. Most likely locations for small and
hard to detect defects are around the input/output shafts and any other
load-bearing areas (shift lever attachments, shift towers, all mounting
points, etc.). Of course, any external defect would rule out a gearbox,
unless I was looking only for internal parts. Even a broken or cracked rib
on the outside of the case will create a major weakness in the case and
seriously compromise its strength and durability. Don't make this mistake,
even though the external damage appears not to penetrate the case or cause
a leak.

Once I establish that there are no external defects, I like to pull a fluid
plug (or access panel if available) and assess the state of the lubricant.
Be careful not to dump all the fluid out, so you don't ruin the box for
someone else if you decide not to purchase it. Unless the gearbox was
neglected badly or sitting in the junk yard for many, many years, the
lubricant should be in decent condition. Some chemical breakdown
(evidenced by mild discoloration) would be acceptable, but I would be
looking especially close for signs of any foreign matter in the fluid.
This might indicate an internal component failure. A completely dry
gearbox is a bad sign (telling you to look elsewhere). This is usually a
sign of a case failure that allowed all the lubricant to leak out, or some
previous scavenger who carelessly dumped the fluid and may have introduced
some contaminants.

After looking at the fluid and determining that it is acceptable, you can
try rotating the shafts and working the shift mechanisms. I look for
smooth operation in all gears and smooth action in the shift mechanisms.
With a transfer case, I listen (and feel) for any sign of the chain rubbing
on the inside of the case. (This is a common wearout problem w/ the BW
1356.) Of course, rotate all shafts in both directions to feel for wear on
both sides of the gears.

Beware any (even the slightest) signs of roughness. At any sign of
roughness, I would again go back to the fluid and try to find signs of
particles. If the gearbox is positioned so that you cannot get fluid from
the bottom of the case, use a clean magnetic pickup tool to fish around the
lowest portion of the case, however it is oriented. If you do it right,
any foreign matter can be dredged up and brought out for examination.
Plastic or brass shavings usually indicate bearing or bushing failures,
while iron or steel shavings indicate abused gears or shaft failures. In
an aluminum-cased box like the BW 1356, aluminum shavings may indicate a
chain rubbing against the inside of the case housing.

If you can remove an access panel, you can visually inspect the internal
components. Sometimes, if you look carefully w/ a flashlight, you can see
internals through fluid fill or drain holes, and even through speedometer
gear access holes. While looking at the internals, I look especially close
at gear surfaces and any exposed shaft surfaces. On gear surfaces, look
for subtle galling (indicating negligent maintenance) along w/ the more
obvious breakage and chipped teeth. Look for galling and scraping on shaft
surfaces.

If all the gears, shafts, and shift mechanisms work smoothly, and if you
see no signs of excessive wear and tear on internal components, and if the
only fluid contamination appears to be a very fine powder-like substance,
then you have (probably) hit jackpot.

Of course, if you're just looking for parts, you may want to buy a bashed
or worn unit and offer substantially less than what a box in decent working
condition would be worth.

Good luck.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:05:13 -0700
From: Steve Faust
Subject: Vin / Door Label Decoding

OK, can any of you fantastic experts (Rick Wojo, Dave R. (M-block
devotee), et.al.) help me with some straight answers.

I am trying to figure out the T-case, axle types, and other general info
for my truck, VIN: 1FTHX26M5JK832648
'88 F-250 XLT 4x4 Supercab w/ 8' bed
7.3 ltr Diesel
3-speed auto tranny

Door Label info is:
MFG Date: 5/88
GVWR: 8800 LB
Front GAWR: 4410 LB
Rear GAWR: 6084 LB
WB: 155 (155" wheel base ?)
TYPE-GVW: X268
BODY: SBM
TRANS: E (C-6 ?)
AXLE: 39
SPRING: 9 A

From what I've read from a past 'Dave R. (M-block devotee)' posting the
T-case should be a BW 1356? But I've heard everything from Dana 44, to
Dana 55 (per Chilton's Manual), to Dana 60 on the axles.

I am starting to upgrade my truck and would greatly appreciate any
enlightenment on what I'm starting with that anyone can provide! And
for future reference is there an accessible reference/book/web-site
where I could look up this information?

Thanks!
Steve
~San Diego area '88 F-250

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:06:04 -0500
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: Re: Vin / Door Label Decoding

Steve Faust wrote:

> OK, can any of you fantastic experts (Rick Wojo, Dave R. (M-block
> devotee), et.al.) help me with some straight answers.

Steve, Thanks for the complement, but I am BY FAR not no where near an
expert. :-( I am just a learning shade-tree mechanic like the rest of you.
:-)
Only base my answers on what I've done, which I have a LONG way
to go


> I am trying to figure out the T-case, axle types, and other general info
> for my truck, VIN: 1FTHX26M5JK832648
> '88 F-250 XLT 4x4 Supercab w/ 8' bed
> 7.3 ltr Diesel
> 3-speed auto tranny
>
> Door Label info is:
> MFG Date: 5/88
> GVWR: 8800 LB
> Front GAWR: 4410 LB
> Rear GAWR: 6084 LB
> WB: 155 (155" wheel base ?)
> TYPE-GVW: X268
> BODY: SBM
> TRANS: E (C-6 ?)
> AXLE: 39
> SPRING: 9 A

> >From what I've read from a past 'Dave R. (M-block devotee)' posting the
> T-case should be a BW 1356? But I've heard everything from Dana 44, to
> Dana 55 (per Chilton's Manual), to Dana 60 on the axles.

Tell ya what, throw away the darn Chilton's and buy a
Hanes($13.00-$15.00)at your local part$ hou. I think you will be a lot
happier. I know I was after
I threw mine away. Okay, that sounds right for your truck, but I would
clean the xfer-case up real good, and look to see if there are any markings
to lead you to a more definative answer. The last thing I want to do, as
well as,
I hate to recieve is miss-information. Although we all screwup once in a
while,
and I've already had mine for the week. :-)

On the front end, my bronco is a Dana 44. Look and see if there is a tag
somewhere
on the pumpkin(differential) connected to one of the bolts. I would be will
to bet
yours came with the 55 or 60. Tell ya what, I will bring my Hanes in
tomorrow
and we will get this figured out. I really was just kidd'n about throwing
out the
Chilton's(Kinda), besides it adds to the garage when people see your
reference
materials. I can tell you one thing regarding the rear end. If you look at
your
truck staring at the rear bumper. Neal down and look at your rear pumpkin.
If you see the screw bolt pattern, then you have the 8.8" rear end, if you
don't then you have the 9". Wait, I'll be taking off of work tomorrow to
play golf, so I will go ahead and run home now and get my Hanes.
Be back in a few.

- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Fsize BRONCO,Stock I-6,"The BROWN BULL",33x12.5x15
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:45:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Warren Auld
Subject: Re: Springs and gearboxen

Thanks again. I have a better idea what to look for now. Once it stops
raining in a couple days, I'm off to the junk yard to start my search.

warren

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:25:17 -0700
From: "Posluszny, Walt (posl)"
Subject: RE: Stock Carb vs. Holley Projection.

Second Attempt. I find it hard to beleive that no one out there has tried
this...............

Walt

> -----Original Message-----
> From:Posluszny, Walt (posl)
> Sent:Friday, April 24, 1998 11:21 AM
> To:'fordtrucks80up ListService.net'
> Subject:Stock Carb vs. Holley Projection.
>
> I'd like some feedback from folks who have made the above switch.
>
> My 15 year old carb is dog tired and am considering switching to a Holley
> Projection System since I am planning on keeping the truck for a while.
>
> Has any one done this before. ?
>
> How do you feel about the swap now that it is done?
>
> Pros ?
>
> Cons ?
>
> Did you go 2bbl or 4 bbl conversion? (year truck?).
>
> How's the reliability?
>
> Was set-up easy or a pain in the arse to get it right?
>
> Are you glad you did it?
>
> Did the system you install include the closed loop O2 sensor set-up or the
> simpler open loop system?
>
> Many thanks.. Walt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:02:39 -0700
From: Steve Faust
Subject: Axle/T-case/Tranny Info

I stumbled across a pretty good site with great general information on
4x4, axles, Transfercases and transmissions, check out the bottom of the
web page at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www2.datasync.com/mclain/4x4.htm

Steve
'88 F-250

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:38:51 -0400
From: "LARRY W. NASH"
Subject: Strange Problem

I've been on the side watching this list and enjoying it for some time, now for
my problem. I have an 89 F250HD 4x4 w/351EFI 5spd manual. When accelerating
and changing gears, as the clutch is pressed the engine rev's up about 1000
rpm then settles down to idle or to the speed to match the drive train after
the clutch the released (yes I know how to operate the clutch/gas pedal). The
only way to prevent this, that I've found, is to get off the gas a couple three
seconds prior to pressing the clutch (which doesn't make for smooth driving).
I've replaced the TPS and adjusted it to 1.0 volts - no change (though it did
solve other problems). Also from an idle, when in neutral or with the clutch
pressed in, I can't feather the throttle within 1000-1200 rpm of idle, the
smallest amount of pressure on the throttle and the engine rpms jump. Related
problem?? What gives????

On another note has anybody had any dealings with
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.rebuiltengines.com/welcome.html my poor truck has 152000 miles,
blow by, and low oil press. I'm interested in keeping it around for a while and
am looking for a new/rebuilt motor, they quoted me a price for a longblock that
I thought was pretty fair.

Thanks......Larry "Flash" Nash

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:15:03 -0700
From: "Jose A. Fernandez"
Subject: RE: Strange Problem

I experienced a similar problem in a non-Ford vehicle. Turned out the
throttle cable was frayed. With the truck in gear and the gas pedal in
normal operating range, the frayed portion was clear of the end of the
cable jacket and everything was cool. Even taking my foot off the gas
pedal with the truck in gear, the sensation of deceleration seemed
normal (because the fray caught the cable jacket near idle, where the
engine would provide compression braking). Once I pushed in the clutch
and took the load off the engine, voooom! Momentarily depressing the
gas pedal cleared the problem--until the fray became so severe it always
hung up on the cable jacket.

-----Original Message-----
From: LARRY W. NASH [SMTP:NASHLWX GWSMTP.NU.COM]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 1998 8:39 PM
To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
Subject: Strange Problem

I've been on the side watching this list and enjoying it for some
time, now for my problem. I have an 89 F250HD 4x4 w/351EFI 5spd
manual. When accelerating and changing gears, as the clutch is
pressed the engine rev's up about 1000 rpm then settles down to idle
or to the speed to match the drive train after the clutch the
released (yes I know how to operate the clutch/gas pedal). The only
way to prevent this, that I've found, is to get off the gas a couple
three seconds prior to pressing the clutch (which doesn't make for
smooth driving). I've replaced the TPS and adjusted it to 1.0 volts
- no change (though it did solve other problems). Also from an idle,
when in neutral or with the clutch pressed in, I can't feather the
throttle within 1000-1200 rpm of idle, the smallest amount of
pressure on the throttle and the engine rpms jump. Related problem??
What gives????

...[omitted by JAF]...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:19:01 -0400
From: "Larry Titus"
Subject: PowerStroke fuel milage

I have a 1995 F250 HD with a PowerStroke deisel, and I was wondering if
anyone has noticed that the fuel milage dropped off after 30 to 40 thousand
miles. If this is a common problem with the motor, does anyone have an
explanation as to why, or a way to get the milage back to where it was
when new.
I appreciate any information that you could share with me.
Thanks,
Larry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:49:53 -0800
From: "Casey Vandor"
Subject: antifreeze leak

I have been finding a constant drip of antifreeze snaking its way down the
trannsmission every time I get under there. I have to add about 2 quarts
every month or so. There are no holes in the radiator, hoses, the freeze
plugs and block heater on the sides, or from the edge of the manifold. It
seems to be coming from the rear of the engine, but there isn't enough room
to trace it back up to the source. Where should I look for the leak? I
have thought about using that -stop leak- or similar stuff you pour in, but
it warns against using it with a block heater installed. Has anybody ever
used it with a heater? Is it ok to do, or are they just trying to keep
that one person with a problem off there back?

Thanks
Casey

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 01:09:54 EDT
From: JSCF250
Subject: Re: PowerStroke fuel milage

CHANGE YOUR 02 SENSOR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:11:19 -0700
From: Robert Kennedy
Subject: Re: antifreeze leak

If you can get to a pressure tester. It may be easy to find. I think I
would take the inspection plate at the bottom of the bell housing off and
see if any antifreeze is sitting at the bottom of the transmission bell
housing. That would indicate a freeze plug at the back of the block
leaking. A pressure tester would be helpful first, you'd be able to look
underneath with a pressurized system.

Bob



At 08:49 PM 4/30/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I have been finding a constant drip of antifreeze snaking its way down the....


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