fordtrucks80up-digest Tuesday, April 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 150



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

RE: Shocks ["Casey Vandor" ]
Re: Tool Cleanup, Flammability [sbest ]
F-100 engine swap [Dom379 ]
Test ["Rex T. Edmiston" ]
Captain's Chair armrest problem ["Rex T. Edmiston" ]
Re: 5-Speed ["Chad D. Cassetty" ]
BIG BRONCO REBUILD ["Todd Johnston" ]
Re: A little Vin decodeing ["Dave Resch" ]
Re: A little Vin decodeing [Robert Kennedy ]
Re: Lava Liner ["Rick Wojciechowski" ]
Seats ["Mike Miller" ]
Re: Seats ["Chris Hedemark" ]
Unknown substance on windshield [Troy Reifsnider ]
Re: Cleaning with Gasoline [sbest ]
ADMIN: Server update and FTE additions [Ken Payne ]
'89 F250 5.8l air injection system - to remove or not ? ["J & L McIntosh"]
Springs and gearboxen [Warren Auld ]

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Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:59:25 -0800
From: "Casey Vandor"
Subject: RE: Shocks

Ok, I went with the Mountain Rider Shocks. The fronts fit fine, but rears
are about 1 inch too short ( i am figuring this by leaving the truck where
it sits and unbolting the old ones, and then placing the new ones up where
they will go) I have a rough country add a leaf back there that added maybe
an inch(not much difference), should I take them back and ask for two longer
ones or go ahead and use them? I never take the truck seriuosly offroad, so
they are rarely if ever at full extension.

Thanks
Casey

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:15:13 -0300
From: sbest
Subject: Re: Tool Cleanup, Flammability

>sbest wrote:
>
>> Now to this small can of diesel fuel I added 10ml of gasoline from
>> the lawn tractor's gas can making about 10% gas in the diesel.
>> This time when I threw a match in it caught fire, every time, with a
>> slow smokey flame. No need to increase the gas to 25%.
>>
>[snip]
>
>> As an aside, our insurance agent will not allow us to store used motor
>> oil in tanks inside the shop, the small amounts of residual gasoline in
>> it create an explosion/fire hazard as the volatile potion evaporates and
>> collects. Used transmission fluid is not under the same constraints.
>>
>From: Randy
>Good thing your insurance guy didn't see you doing this test, eh?
>hehehe :)
>Later,
>Randy

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Yeah, I've already had the fire department at the house once this month,
I sure don't need them here again!
Why do I suddenly feel like Tim the toolman...



Steve Best, Nova Scotia, sbest glinx.com
4 wheel drive van page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.glinx.com/users/sbest
Tire chains, camping gear, tools, Bronco and some shooting stuff too.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:43:37 EDT
From: Dom379
Subject: F-100 engine swap

I have an '81 F100 that has been converted to 4x4 and some other
modifications. right now it is in dire need of a valve job (all cylinders
between 70 and 30psi). It is also plagued with an exhaust leak that I have
fixed at least three times. It is good for a coupIe of months but then it is
back. I also have continuous reoccuring problems with the carb. Choke sucks
basicially. I was toying with the idea of putting in an 8 but I don't know
what motor I can put in and still be within the California smog laws.

The other thing I am thinking about doing is fixing all the problems with the
motor that I have. It has only about 30,000 on it, and I haven't found
anything I can't move. I love the low end torque and horespower. I was
wondering if anyone knows of a company that makes California smog legal HP
parts for the six. (heads, intake, carb, headers)

Thanks
Dominic

'81 "F-100" 4x4

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Rex T. Edmiston"
Subject: Test

sorry folks--have had trouble posting

...rex

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Rex T. Edmiston"
Subject: Captain's Chair armrest problem

Hi folks,

Not a "problem" but something's not right. Truck's a '95 F150 SC SB
with captain's chairs.

Driver's side armrest came loose and started dropping down. In trying
to figure out how to fix it, I found a vinyl wrapped steel cable with
a short (3") threaded steel rod with nylock nut. The cable came out
of the armrest and into and between the seat back and the upholstery.
It just came out loose and was only attached "somewhere" in the armrest.

Question is...what is this cable and where/how does it attach???

Note: I was rear-ended about a year ago - I was dead stopped - other
guy hit at 35mph. Seat recliner mechanism destroyed...as well as some
other stuff. I think all is well now.

thanks....rex

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 9:47 -0600
From: "Chad D. Cassetty"
Subject: Re: 5-Speed

Randy,

I could'nt send to your address, so I put it here. Hope you didn't mind.

Chad


From: "Chad D. Cassetty"
To: runawaykid ncweb.com
Subject: RE: tranny

Hi, Randy.

The trans went bad early on, and it was rebuild twice. They finally
replaced it under warranty last year. It sounds like the 5-speed someone


else was talking about in that the first gear is super-low (almost
granny) and second is kinda soft. Overall, it is a good box, though.
I've been pleased with it. As for $$, no clue, will take offers under


consideration. And yes, BG KY, home of Holley Performance Products!

Chad

------------------------------

Date: 27 Apr 98 11:03:12 -0500
From: "Todd Johnston"
Subject: BIG BRONCO REBUILD

Hi Guys and Gals
Everybody have a good weekend? I was wondering if i could some
input on something. My 88 ford bronco seems to be running a little rough.
When i accelerate to 70 or 80k the idle seems to stick at 2000rpm but if i let
off on the pedal a little it will drop down to 1000rpm. Any suggestions on
this problem? I personaly starting to wonder if it is the transmission.
I have a AOD transmission on a 5.0l engine with EFI.
ANy ideas would be greatly appreciated especialy those ones that are easier and
cheaper than a transmission swap.
Thanks again and i hope everyone had a good weekend.

Todd Johnston
Bronco Bustin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:43:36 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: A little Vin decodeing

Yo Bob, Tyler, et al:

>>Here's what he has told me:
>>351M
>Chilton's says no 351M after 79 (76 to 86 manual)What is the engine code
>from the Vin?

Sometimes Chiltons is not entirely reliable. My 1980 F250 4x4 has a 351M
in it. The 351M remained in production through the 1983 model year. The
engine VIN code for the 351M is G.

>>T-18

Trans code for the T-18 is F. It should be listed on the data sticker on
the driver's side door jamb.

>>4X4
>>Reg cab.
>>7300 GVW
>>Full floating rear axle, code:C7
>No C7 code listed at all, 81 had D7 (4.10), 23 (3.31), 24 (4.10), H2
>(3.50), H4 (3.25) H7 (3.00) and H9 (4.11)

Trucks under 8500 GVW are not considered "Heavy Duty." Until 1992, 8500
GVW was the cut-off for requiring a catalytic converter. The F250 4x4 was
not available w/ over 8500 GVW from 1980 through 1983.

>>Now here's what he'd like:
>>Is this a F250 Heavy Duty or light
>There is no LD HD designation only Dana 44 IFS or Dana 44 IFS HD
>What model axles & Ratio

The Dana 44 IFS HD was not used on F250s until 1984. On a 1981 F250 4x4,
the axles would be a Dana 44 IFS (TTB) front axle and Dana 60 rear. Some
early '80s F250s were equipped w/ a semi floating Dana 60-2 axle. These
are easiest to distinguish by their lack of a full-floating type hub
extending through the center of the wheel. The most common ratio used w/
the 351M/T-18 configuration was 3.50-3.55, although 3.25 and 4.10 were also
available.

>>What model Xfer case
>Three cases available NP 208 (smooth case), Borg-Warner 13-45
>(finned case), and the Borg-Warner 12-56 (Automatic)

The only transfer case used on F250s from 1980 through 1983 was the NP208.
The BW 1345 was not used on F250s until 1984. The BW 1256 was never used
on F250s.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:20:51 -0700
From: Robert Kennedy
Subject: Re: A little Vin decodeing

Thanks Dave...

Bob

At 10:43 AM 4/27/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Yo Bob, Tyler, et al:
>
>>>Here's what he has told me:
>>>351M
>>Chilton's says no 351M after 79 (76 to 86 manual)What is the engine code
>>from the Vin?
>
>Sometimes Chiltons is not entirely reliable. My 1980 F250 4x4 has a 351M
>in it. The 351M remained in production through the 1983 model year. The
>engine VIN code for the 351M is G.
>
>>>T-18
>
>Trans code for the T-18 is F. It should be listed on the data sticker on
>the driver's side door jamb.
>
>>>4X4
>>>Reg cab.
>>>7300 GVW
>>>Full floating rear axle, code:C7
>>No C7 code listed at all, 81 had D7 (4.10), 23 (3.31), 24 (4.10), H2
>>(3.50), H4 (3.25) H7 (3.00) and H9 (4.11)
>
>Trucks under 8500 GVW are not considered "Heavy Duty." Until 1992, 8500
>GVW was the cut-off for requiring a catalytic converter. The F250 4x4 was
>not available w/ over 8500 GVW from 1980 through 1983.
>
>>>Now here's what he'd like:
>>>Is this a F250 Heavy Duty or light
>>There is no LD HD designation only Dana 44 IFS or Dana 44 IFS HD
>>What model axles & Ratio
>
>The Dana 44 IFS HD was not used on F250s until 1984. On a 1981 F250 4x4,
>the axles would be a Dana 44 IFS (TTB) front axle and Dana 60 rear. Some
>early '80s F250s were equipped w/ a semi floating Dana 60-2 axle. These
>are easiest to distinguish by their lack of a full-floating type hub
>extending through the center of the wheel. The most common ratio used w/
>the 351M/T-18 configuration was 3.50-3.55, although 3.25 and 4.10 were also
>available.
>
>>>What model Xfer case
>>Three cases available NP 208 (smooth case), Borg-Warner 13-45
>>(finned case), and the Borg-Warner 12-56 (Automatic)
>
>The only transfer case used on F250s from 1980 through 1983 was the NP208.
>The BW 1345 was not used on F250s until 1984. The BW 1256 was never used
>on F250s.
>
>Dave R. (M-block devotee)
>
>
>+--------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 ----------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
>| List removal instructions on the website. |
>+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:35:26 -0500
From: "Rick Wojciechowski"
Subject: Re: Lava Liner

Ken Justice wrote:

> I thought I knew my liners. What is a Lava Liner?

Ken,
Here is a letter from the bronco group I saved of Matt's
testimonial of Lava Liner. Also included is a URL.


> >There are also some not-so-flattering pictures of me at:
> >
> >http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.BigBroncos.com/ifsproj/lava/lliner_review.html

> After seeing this, I have a few questions for you.
>
> 1. Do you still like the stuff after the "newness" is gone?

Yup, still very nice. It has gotten harder as time has worn on, and it
is getting a little less glossy. The Lava Liner guy told me that it
(like all urethanes) takes about 30 days to cure. It's been about that
now, so I think it is done. It smelled a little for a few weeks, but
that has gone away also. It smelled kinda like oil-based paint, or
mineral spirits. Nothing very strong or offensive, but just enough to
know that something was still going on.

> 2. Would you use it again?

Yup. I still plan to do the front end of the Bronco sometime in the near
future. I like the smooth surface compared to the textured rubber mat
which came with the truck. It cleans up nicely.

It was a lot of work to install, but it wasn't hard work. I had some
rust problems to take care of first, which made things more difficult.
The main issue is getting everything clean and scuffed so it will stick.
My Bronco saw a pretty hard life before I got to it, so most of the
effort was just getting it clean. Every time I jumped in and out of it
more sand and dust would appear on the previously clean surface. :-)

> 3. How much was needed for the back of the Bronco?

I used 1 gallon. I did put it on pretty heavily, so it probably didn't
really need that much. The Lava Liner guy thought it would take 1.5
gallons to do the whole truck (he has a Big Bronco also!).

> 4> How well do you think it would work as a coating in the wheel
wells?
> and in the body seams/lips under the body where all the crud collects
and
> rust starts?
> I ask because I've been contemplating rhino lining the bed and
> underside/wheel wells of the Bronco just the cost has kept it on the back

> burner as there is no immediate need.

I think it would work pretty well. The stuff does flow a little, so you
have to apply it in two thin coats on vertical surfaces. Rhino or one of
the other sprayed liners would be easier to apply because they set up
almost immediately. The uncured Lava Liner had the consistancy of warm
tar, so it will stick where you put it, but it will run a little. It
would help if it was warm where you applied it, because that will
accellerate the curing process. I think Lava Liner is softer than the
spray in types, so it would be better suited to a wheel well liner
because it may take rock dings better, and keep the noise down.

Especially considering the cost of the professionaly applied coatings, I
think Lava Liner makes sense if you are willing to get your hands dirty.



- --
Thanks,
Rick Wojo
'83 Stock I-6 "The BROWN BULL"
'92 Mstng 5.0L
'95 eclipse-Wife's(For Sale)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:53:50 -0700
From: "Mike Miller"
Subject: Seats

I am thinking of "upgrading" the bench seat in my 85 F250 x-cab to something
a little nicer - something like the newer bucket seats with center console
or the equivalent. Question is, what year seats will bolt in to the 85? Can
I just get the seats from a 93 or so and drop them in? Any feel for the
cost?

TIA
mike miller

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:57:14 -0400
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: Seats

>I am thinking of "upgrading" the bench seat in my 85 F250 x-cab to
something
>a little nicer - something like the newer bucket seats with center console
>or the equivalent. Question is, what year seats will bolt in to the 85? Can
>I just get the seats from a 93 or so and drop them in? Any feel for the
>cost?


Anyone who responds to this please do so publicly or copy me on the
response... I had the same question on my brain about an 87. Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Troy Reifsnider
Subject: Unknown substance on windshield

First I'd like to say this is an excellent and informative list.

Now onto the question. I have a black substance on the inside of my
windshield. It doesn't come off with a razor blade or any chemical
that I tried (laquer thinner, wax and grease remover, acrysol, etc.).
Please help! It is on the lower passanger side, but it is still
annoying! Thanks in advance.

Troy Reifsnider
'92 Ranger XLT
2.9L 5 sp. 4x4

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:17:59 -0300
From: sbest
Subject: Re: Cleaning with Gasoline

>>>I am an advocate of safe use of combustible and flammable liquids though. My
>>>parts cleaning bin has a lid that is always shut when not in use, and I
always
>>>dry my parts in a well ventilated area (Difficult to find in sub-zero
>>>weather). I have yet to respond to an emergency involving diesel only. I
have,
>>>however, gone to a fully involved shop fire where the mechanics had not
purged
>>>and cleaned the gas tank before working on it. The end result of that
shop was
>>>an old foundation.
>>>
>>>Thank you Steve for correcting me on this issue. As for me, I'll still
>>>continue to use diesel. I feel safe using the stuff, but to each his own.
>>>
>>>
>>>Joshua Dronkers
>>>Fairbanks Alaksa


>From Steve:
I cannot see a danger with diesel, I was suprised that it actually
would smother a lit match. Cleaning small parts in a tin can of gas
would pose less danger than my little "experiment" but taking a paint
brush and gas can to, say, an engine block inside the shop gives me
shivers! I would really feel remiss if one of the list members got elbows
deep in gasoline, naptha or such and had a static shock ignite it.
Take care. Sorry to preach...


Steve Best, Nova Scotia, sbest glinx.com
4 wheel drive van page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.glinx.com/users/sbest
Tire chains, camping gear, tools, Bronco and some shooting stuff too.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:34:39 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Server update and FTE additions

Lots of Ford Truck Enthusiasts news below, please read!

Web site: nearly working 100%. Chat is still broken.

New list server: I have new live versions of the lists working on
the new server. Digests are not working yet. As soon as the digests
are working, all the lists will be moved over and instructions sent
out. Commands and posting methods will remain the same, only the
addresses will change. The web site form and FAQ will also be updated.

As soon as the new lists are working then the following items will
get the attention they desperately need:

- -web site pictorial updates
- -web site link updates
- -free web space configuration. This shouldn't take long because the
new server is geared towards this. Additional web space beyond
the free 300k will be available for $1/month per meg (my cost).
I have about 6 meg available for free web space (about 20 sites).
There is a voting form on the web site concerning web space,
your opinion counts.
- -new chat script (tests confirm that this one shouldn't crash like
the old one kept doing)
- -t-shirt pictures will be reviewed and winners announced. Design
won't begin until after the Pigeon Forge F100 Nationals in mid
May.
- -A vendors section will be added to the page. This will be a
section that vendors can use to provide discounts to list members
and page visitors. We will get a small amount which helps to
cover our site expenses (they've gone up considerably) and pass on
the majority of the discount to you. The Working Mat will be the
first vendor in this section (they suggested this excellent idea).
More information will be available after details are arranged.
- -Pigeon Forge F100 Nationals Information (will be posted by this
weekend)

We will no longer pay for additional lists!! So the following will
occur shortly:

- -Vote for Performance/Hot Rodding truck mailing list. This ought
to take some mail pressure off the 61-79 list (busiest list).
- -Wanted/For Sale List: Additions to the Classifieds section on the
web site will automatically get posted to this list. No more
browsing of the ads page if you subscribe to this list! You'll
know immediately if someone has the part you need plus you'll be
able to respond directly to the person who posted the ad.

Sorry to be a stranger lately,
Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:55:25 -0600
From: "J & L McIntosh"
Subject: '89 F250 5.8l air injection system - to remove or not ?

Over the last year the air injection valve, just before the header fitting,
on the driver side has blown out twice. I assume its a valve that prevents
exhaust from pushing back into the air pump. When it blows apart, of course
the truck sounds like an old beater. The only mod from stock is a K&N filter
charger. What is causing this? I am considering disconnecting the whole air
pump system. What are the impacts?
Will this mess up the O2 sensor and fuel injection system ? Any opinions ?
Thanks...John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 04:23:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Warren Auld
Subject: Springs and gearboxen

Hi all,

I recently was overcome by one of the fits of insanity that seem to
effect so many on this list and bought a used truck. And like usual, the
price was inversely proportional to the number of problems.

The truck's an '87 F-250 4x4 with a 6.9L diesel (and for the Click and
Clack fans -- gray.)

First question -- how important are the keepers on the spring packs (the....


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