fordtrucks80up-digest Wednesday, April 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 119



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

Re: 7.3D exhaust system question [Bill Funk ]
Ford vs Ch**y [Bill Funk ]
Re: Alarm System Suggestions [Bill Funk ]
Re: Alarm System Suggestions [Sheldon Belinkoff ]
Re: R12 vs R134 ["Chris Hedemark" ]
Miles per gallon I-6 [huff ]
R12 vs R134 [John Cassis ]
R-12 vs. R-134a ["Doug Berry" ]
R12 vs R134 [John Cassis ]
case of r12 [Claude King ]
Back Firing Problem and Mirror Request ["Bowman, John A" ]
Brian Kerr's Fast Idle Problem ["Bowman, John A" ]
RE: R12 vs. R134A ["Beaman, James" ]
RE: Alarm System Suggestions [Anthony Rio ]
RE: R12 vs R134 [Anthony Rio ]
Re: SD PTO on 6 speed. ["Union Auto" ]
Re: Roller lifters ["JGA" ]
Re: R12 vs R134 [Chris Hedemark ]
RE: R12 vs R134 ["Mark E. Monninger" ]
RE: F-150 vs. F-250 Brakes ["Mike Mueller" ]
Re: R12 vs R134 [David McDonald ]
highboy? ["C. S. Apple" ]
Re: F-150 vs. F-250 Brakes [Chris Hedemark ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 04:10:47 -0700
From: Bill Funk
Subject: Re: 7.3D exhaust system question

> From: "Patrick Vanderlind"
> Subject: 7.3D exhaust system question
>
> Diesel Gurus,
> I have a '93 XLT xcab 4x4 with the 7.3 NA diesel. I want to
> increase the power without turbocharging. The cost is to much to put
> into a 5 year old truck. I will be getting a Power Stroke in the next
> couple of years anyway so I would not get the $$ out of it.
> I need an exhaust system replacement so I thought of adding an
> aftermarket system instead of the stock. I am looking at a Banks
> Power Pack that adds 3" exhaust, Banks Dynaflow muffler, and a
> K&N filter system. This setup is supposed to add 40 HP and 45
> ft/torque measured at the back wheels. The cost is $695. It seems a
> bit steep but if I can get the power boost it claims, I will pay the
> difference over the stock $$. Has anyone out there tryied this
> system? What do you think? Is there any other ways to get the power
> out without turbocharging? Please help. Thanks.
>
> Patrick Vanderlind

You don't need to buy from Banks to get the exhaust. Any exhaust shop
that can handle 3" pipe/mandrel bending can make up a system for you, at
a considerable savings.

Bill Funk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 04:27:39 -0700
From: Bill Funk
Subject: Ford vs Ch**y

Just thought I'd let you know...
We were in Conroe, Texas 3/20 - 3/26 for vacation. We took our '91 F250
HD SC. On the 21st, with my sister driving, a Ch**y pickup ran a stop
sign and clipped the front of our truck at a speed of about 50-55.
Our F250 goes in the shop here in Phoenix on Thursday; we think the
Ch**y was totalled, as it rolled (I wasn't in the truck at the time). No
injuries (seat belts in use all around, and these things are really
built), but the other driver's wife was really pissed!
I'm learning that State Farm (the other driver's insurance) seems to
have really changed their attitude in recent years. The last time I
dealt with them, threats of a lawsuit were necessary to get what I
considered to be reasonable service (a pickup rental to replace a
damaged pickup, for example), but this time they seem reasonable from
the start. It looks like I'll get an Expedition rental while the F250's
in the shop.
Damage to the F250 is light, mostly grill/fender/bumper stuff, but an
alignment is called for, as it pulls slightly to the right. The driver's
door won't open, since the fender was pushed back. We will probably use
this as an excuse to get the truck re-painted all over, as the repaired
parts won't match, and there's a bunch of poor paint from a poor prior
paint repair.
Ahh, Texas.... Great vacation. Two ear infections, a case of pink eye,
damaged truck, but two great days in Galveston!

Bill Funk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 04:41:26 -0700
From: Bill Funk
Subject: Re: Alarm System Suggestions

> From: Sheldon Belinkoff
> Subject: Alarm System Suggestions
>
> Tomorrow I'm supposed to pick up my "new" truck to replace one which
> was
> recently stolen. I never thought I needed an alarm system or some
> sort
> of
> protection. While I know this topic has come up before, I've not paid
>
> much
> attention to it, so I'd like some "expert" opinions.
>
> I'm planning on a fuel shut off switch and a battery/starter
> disconnect.
> However, these things won't prevent a break in or stop the truck from
> being
> towed away. I'd like an alarm system that can be installed in such a
> way
> that it's virtually inaccessible - so it can't be bypassed. I'd also
> like
> something that would page me as well as making an incredible racket
> when
> the
> truck was disturbed, perhaps something with motion sensors, and where
> I
> can
> se the degree of sensitivity.
>
> Any sugestions? What's worked for you? Any better ideas than mine?
>
> - --
> SCB

Great idea, putting on an alarm. It will probably cut your chances of
theft by 90% or better, as well as maybe save you some $ on your
insurance.
Unless you are really good at this, it's probably better to have one
installed. Ignition disable is pretty standard. As for break-ins, a
shock sensor will handle that.
Don't worry about being towed; theives very seldom do that.
Also, don't think the alarm is proof against theft or damage; it's not.
If a pro wants your truck, it's gone. Period.
What the alarm is intended for is to make your truck a harder target, so
the thief will go somewhere else to ply his trade. If the thief knows
your truck is alarmed, he's going to think twice before attempting to
take it. There are simply too many others around that are easier to take
(like the ones left outside the Circle K, running, while the driver nips
inside to buy a pack of cigs...).
Also, don't listen to those who will tell you that alarms don't do any
good, because they go off all the time, and nobody cares. Believe me,
when you are trying to steal a car, and the alarm goes off, it feels
like the *WHOLE WORLD* is watching you. At that point, one of two things
happens: the thief runs like hell, or he calmy proceeds to finish the
job (either way, BTW, your little radio beeper thingy is useless).
We've had alarms on both our '91 F250 and '92 Explorer from within a
week after purchase,and have had no problems with theft, whereas my '81
F250 was broken into at least 3 times *in our driveway* without an
alarm. That little flashing red LED seems to do wonders!

Bill Funk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 03:39:48 -0800
From: Sheldon Belinkoff
Subject: Re: Alarm System Suggestions

> Don't worry about being towed; theives very seldom do that.

That's exactly how my truck was stolen - and from my driveway, not 30
feet from my bedroom window, while I was sleeping.

- --
SCB
belinkoff earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:27:53 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: R12 vs R134

>r-134 works just fine. do you think they would put it in new vehicles if it
>were not good.

Because the better alternative is illegal and there are no other cheap,
legal alternatives.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 05:57:37 -0700
From: huff
Subject: Miles per gallon I-6

I am curious to find out what other inline-6 owners get for gas miliage
with 80-85 non fuel injected ford trucks? Especially if they live at a
high altitude location like Denver. I have had an 82 4 x 2 (with
duraspark II) which at sea leval got 17 mpg highway but when I moved to
the Rockies would only get 14 highway and 12 city. My 85 (with TFI-IV)
gets only 16.5 highway and 13 city at high altitude and 18 mpg highway
at east coast sea level. I have advanced the timing 2 degrees and
adjusted fuel mixture (truck has a yfa feedback carb) to compensate. I
would like to see if other I-6 drivers have come up with other ways to
increase their miliage or if this is the norm?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:47:09 -0600
From: John Cassis
Subject: R12 vs R134

Hawk,
Sorry dude, I should have listend to my Mom and gone to Law =
School.....NOT. Anyway I did not mean to sound so defensive I was just =
trying to explain my point of view....guess I over-explained.

John Cassis
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:28:46 -0500
From: "Doug Berry"
Subject: R-12 vs. R-134a

Well I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I primarily live in Virginia Beach but
I frequent my parents in Tyler Texas (NorthEast Texas). I've have bad R-12
and R-134a A/C systems. If your A/C is not cooling enough the problem is
not the type of freon you are using it is the size of the expansion valve
that is in your system. If you want colder air get a smaller valve. If
have used the retro kits (R-12 to R-134a) with not problem and could not
tell the difference. I currently have a 95 F-150 with stock R-134a and a 90
Bronco that I've used the retro kit on and both get colder that a well
diggers A$$ in the middle of low 100's in East Texas.
I know everybody has a prefference that why we here drive Fords but
considering the price of R-12 has gone up to around $30 a pound and R-134a
is $3 a pound without the need of EPA certification to purchas it R-134a is
the way to go. It will also keep the tree huggers off of your back on
while on your way deer hunting drinking a cold beer.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:05:24 -0600
From: John Cassis
Subject: R12 vs R134

One other thing when I replaced all of my AC stuff, I told you guys that =
Walmart re-charged my system for $65. All of the other places I called =
wanted $120 or more. So if you have a R12 system that needs re-charging =
call them for a price, you might find yourself surprised.

John Cassis
93' STX 4x4 3.0/5-speed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:44:00 -0500
From: Claude King
Subject: case of r12

I've got a case of stuff to sell, if anybody is interested email mail me.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 10:03:32 -0800
From: "Bowman, John A"
Subject: Back Firing Problem and Mirror Request

I have a 1983 F100, 302 3spd auto with 83,000 km (approximately 50k
miles) that is all original. The problem I have is when I accelerated
hard and back off the truck back fires severley. I have been told that
it is an emisions problem ( antiback fire valve). Any other ideas? I am
also looking for an original 1983 vintage stainless steel drivers side
mirror to replace the cheap aftermarket "chrome" plated one (it rusts
after 1 winter)....any out there?

- --



*************************************
J.A. Bowman
Customer Services Group Supervisor
MT&T Circuit Provisioning Centre
Rm221
3601 Joesph Howe Dr.
Halifax, Nova Scotia
B3L 4H8
PH: (902) 486-3848
FAX: (902) 423-4090
email: jbowman MTT.CA

************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 10:14:45 -0800
From: "Bowman, John A"
Subject: Brian Kerr's Fast Idle Problem

Brian,
I have a 1983 F100, 302 3spd auto with 83,000km (50k miles) that had a
similar problem with the idle speed. What I found was that there is a
metal tube that runs from the choke to the exhaust manifold to bring up
hot air. This had rusted off. I repaired it and now the truck runs like
a charm. I have only had the truck since Nov.97 and my gas mileage over
the winter has only been between 13-15 mpg.

- --



*************************************
J.A. Bowman
Customer Services Group Supervisor
MT&T Circuit Provisioning Centre
Rm221
3601 Joesph Howe Dr.
Halifax, Nova Scotia
B3L 4H8
PH: (902) 486-3848
FAX: (902) 423-4090
email: jbowman MTT.CA

************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 08:28:09 -0600
From: "Beaman, James"
Subject: RE: R12 vs. R134A

Buck Schoff wrote:

> it at a Walmart. Sounds like you got a bargain. BTW, did you know that
> they have stopped making R12, (or are going to stop shortly) and that
> the only R12 that you will be able to buy is stuff taken out of other
> cars?
>
Apparently, it is big business to smuggle in the stuff from out of the
country. It probably won't be too long before Clinton appoints a Freon Lord
:^)

James Beaman
james.beaman lmco.com
Houston, Texas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:38:51 -0600
From: Anthony Rio
Subject: RE: Alarm System Suggestions

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When I first got my truck, it was broken into 4 times in the first year =
when I would go into downtown Chicago. Twice they just rumaged through =
the truck and twice they tried to rip it off completely.=20

When they tried to take the truck, I had planned to be away from it for =
the day, and pulled the center line off the ditributor cap, and stuck it =
in my pocket. A real pain in the *ss, but at least the truck was still =
there when I got back!

It may just be coincedence, but since I stuck an "Illinois State Trooper =
Booster" sticker (that they give you when you donate to the childrens =
fund) and my big NRA sticker on the back window, nobody has messed with =
it. I also don't really keep a whole lot in the truck, so when I go =
someplace that I am worried about it getting broken into, I pull the =
face off the CD player, open up the glove box, and flip the seat =
forward. Then you can see there isn't anything in it, and that it isn't =
worth the trouble.

In my opinion this can be a pain, but if someone wants your truck, =
they're gonna get it regardless of the security system. I prefer to =
discourage the would-be-theif right away.

With that said... Maybe try the Lo-Jack system? If I buy a nicer truck =
than just the base XL with the fabric bench seat, I would consider one =
of these.

- -----Original Message-----
From:Sheldon Belinkoff [SMTP:belinkoff earthlink.net]
Sent:Monday, March 30, 1998 4:36 PM
To:Ford Trucks; offroad; bushhacker-l teleport.com
Subject:Alarm System Suggestions

Tomorrow I'm supposed to pick up my "new" truck to replace one which was
recently stolen. I never thought I needed an alarm system or some sort
of
protection. While I know this topic has come up before, I've not paid
much
attention to it, so I'd like some "expert" opinions.

I'm planning on a fuel shut off switch and a battery/starter
disconnect.
However, these things won't prevent a break in or stop the truck from
being
towed away. I'd like an alarm system that can be installed in such a
way
that it's virtually inaccessible - so it can't be bypassed. I'd also
like
something that would page me as well as making an incredible racket when
the
truck was disturbed, perhaps something with motion sensors, and where I
can
se the degree of sensitivity.

Any sugestions? What's worked for you? Any better ideas than mine?


- --=20
SCB
belinkoff earthlink.net



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+--------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 ----------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
| List removal instructions on the website. |
+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:24:46 -0600
From: Anthony Rio
Subject: RE: R12 vs R134

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Just remember that a lot of times the mark-up on R-12 is from the =
"retailer", not the manufacturer. My father is licensed to purchase =
R-12, and he can usually get a 5 gallon tank (like on your barbeque =
grill), on the legitimate market, for an average of $70 to $100. =20

Last summer one of the Chicago television stations did a story about A\C =
recharging, and a lot of the service stations got on and said how they =
have to charge $80 to $100 per re-charge because they paid around $5000 =
to $8000 for the licensing, and $600 to $700 for the R-12. Makes me =
wonder who the h*ll they buy from! Dad went to be licensed for R-12 and =
hazardous waste piping, and for both ran him around $1500.

Granted, 6 or 7 years ago you could get the same tank for about $20, but =
there still seems to be some "half-truths" coming from the retailers.

- -----Original Message-----
From:John Cassis [SMTP:cassis uei-houston.com]
Sent:Tuesday, March 31, 1998 6:28 AM
To:'Ford Trucks 80 & Up'
Subject:R12 vs R134

Oh I almost forgot, Walmart charged my AC with R12 for $65. That was =
from completely dry when I had to rebuild my system. So for those of you =
out their with R12 that need a re-charge check them out. They were half =
the price of some local shops. I called around Houston and priced it out =
before I ended up taking it to them.

John Cassis


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+--------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 ----------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
| List removal instructions on the website. |
+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:54:59 -0600
From: "Union Auto"
Subject: Re: SD PTO on 6 speed.

All manual Transmission Super Duty trucks have the Power take off
provision. Please not however it requires an aftermarket PTO unit to make
this work. Factory there is just a port to install the PTO (The older ZF
trannys had a port just like this.) This feature is optional on auto
trannys. I think you can get the external part of the PTO from either Dana
or Muncie.

Nathan Bernard
Union Auto, Inc. Ford Mercury

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:20:35 -0500
From: "JGA"
Subject: Re: Roller lifters

>snip

>Now, how many miles would I have to
>drive to justify the 400 bucks? hehe
>Later,
>Randy


Thanks for the info...although I wasn't ready for the price tag. I think
I'll hold off on replacing them for now, : ) the valve work is costing
me enough as it is.

JGA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 10:21:19 -0500
From: Chris Hedemark
Subject: Re: R12 vs R134

Anthony Rio wrote:

> Last summer one of the Chicago television stations did a story about A\C recharging, and a lot of the service stations got on and said how they have to charge $80 to $100 per re-charge because they paid around $5000 to $8000 for the licensing, and $600 to $700 for the R-12. Makes me wonder who the h*ll they buy from! Dad went to be licensed for R-12 and hazardous waste piping, and for both ran him around $1500.

That's a crock. I have my licensing and there is no way it costs that
much. The license is so easy to get. You sit in front of a short
videotape that tells you how bad it is to release freon into the air.
You have to know how short the hoses have to be on the recovery system.
Then you take a one page written test. I had never worked on an A/C
system in my life but when I was working at Pep Boys selling tires of
all things, I was required to take the exam with the mechanics. Every
one of us passed. Took no more than an hour out of our day.

> Granted, 6 or 7 years ago you could get the same tank for about $20, but there still seems to be some "half-truths" coming from the retailers.

6 years ago Pep Boys marked up the big cans to about $100 and the little
cans for like $20.

- --

Chris Hedemark - chris yonderway.com - http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
"From the fury of the Norsemen, oh Lord, deliver us!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:25:48 -0700 (MST)
From: "Mark E. Monninger"
Subject: RE: R12 vs R134

On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Anthony Rio wrote:
> ...
> Last summer one of the Chicago television stations did a story about A\C
> recharging, and a lot of the service stations got on and said how they
have
> to charge $80 to $100 per re-charge because they paid around $5000 to
$8000
> for the licensing, and $600 to $700 for the R-12. Makes me wonder who
the
> h*ll they buy from! Dad went to be licensed for R-12 and hazardous
waste
> piping, and for both ran him around $1500.

In case any of you guys are interested, you can get a certificate to
handle R-12 on the web for $25. There's an outfit that is licensed
by the gummint to do it. You take an open book (open web page?)
test right on-line, give them your credit card number (it's a secure
web page), and if you pass, they mail you the certificate. I don't
have the URL here but I can probably find it if anyone's interested.
Also, a lot of the cost to businesses is the equipment to do the
required recycling.

The place also has a lot of info on R-12 vs R-134, alternative
refrigerants (there are a lot of them, BTW), and other A/C related
topics. Worth a visit even if you don't want to get certified.

Enjoy...

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 98 08:14:23 PST
From: "Mike Mueller"
Subject: RE: F-150 vs. F-250 Brakes

Fellow Fordster's
I asked this same question(s) when I started with my brake problems.
As for answers...
Yep, in the mechanical circles it is well known are F-150 have crappy bra=
kes, (or revenue producing brakes for repair shops)
Yep, the F-250 does have different brakes all together, and usually witho=
ut the problems we have.
and Nope, they will not swap over. You would have to swap out the entire =
suspension system to get the F-250 brakes.

But here's a question for the group: (I have one foot in the Ford World =
and the other in the Porsche World.) For some Porsches there are afterma=
rket hubs that match the inner bearing sizes but have the outer shapes =
or design of the bigger, better brake systems enabling you to bolt on the=
se hubs and use the big brakes without replacing the whole suspension. =
Is this out there for Fords?


Thanks!

Mike Mueller
The Leasing Dept.
Equipment Leasing and Funding
www.leasingdept.com

In a message dated 98-03-31 12:18:31 EST, you write:

>> It's a whole lot easier to pop in new pads if thats all you need. >>
>I guess thats what I 'll continue to do. Pads are much cheaper and easi=
er to
replace than rotors. I did have the master checked and the Midas guy (Hi=
gh
School Buddy) said it was fine. He told me that they do brakes on the =
150's
all the time. Do the 250's have heavier duty pads/calipers/rotors? Will=
they
swap to the 150 IFS?
Joe Downey

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:38:48 -0800
From: David McDonald
Subject: Re: R12 vs R134

Bill Funk wrote:

> R134 isn't as good as R12 as a refrigerant; this is a known fact. Even a
> cursory reading of the debate over R12 will show that this is well
> understood. Where the cooling needs are moderate, R134 works fine. Here
> in Phoenix, the R134 system must be considerably larger than a R12
> system to provide the same cooling during the hot season (we are talking
> 110+ degrees).
>
> Bill Funk
>

I also heard from a mechanic aquintance of mine that the R134 systems run
alot higher pressure than the R12, making blowouts not just annoying and
wastefull, but dangerous. I don't have the lbs/sq in numbers, but if someone
else does, I'd love to hear em.

Dave McDonald

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:12:53 -0800
From: "C. S. Apple"
Subject: highboy?

What is a factory highboy?

C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 12:06:50 -0500
From: Chris Hedemark
Subject: Re: F-150 vs. F-250 Brakes

Mike Mueller wrote:

> But here's a question for the group: (I have one foot in the Ford World and the other in the Porsche World.) For some Porsches there are aftermarket hubs that match the inner bearing sizes but have the outer shapes or design of the bigger, better brake systems enabling you to bolt on these hubs and use the big brakes without replacing the whole suspension. Is this out there for Fords?....


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