fordtrucks80up-digest Thursday, April 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 120



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: highboy? [Chris Hedemark ]
RE: F-150 vs. F-250 Brakes [Mark Ponsford ]
Got my Truck ["Scottie Schmidt" ]
Re: F-150 vs F-250 Brakes [Bill Funk ]
Re: F-150 vs F-250 Brakes ["Mike Miller" ]
Re: R12 vs R134 [FoMoCoNUT2 ]
EPA A/C Certification (was: Re: R12 vs R134) ["M. Monninger"
Re: case of r12 [R2G ]
Re: r-12 [R2G ]
Re: highboy? [Randy ]
Re: F-150 Brakes [Randy ]
Re: Intake manifold [Ken Payne ]
RE: Miles per gallon I-6 [Jim Cannon ]
ADMIN: Pigeon Forge show [Ken Payne ]
Licensed for R12 [Tom and Amanda Lang ]
exhaust system costs [yhtlines surfari.net]
94- 7.3 diesel i.d. turbo -hard start [Larry Rizzo ]
RE: R12 vs R134 [Anthony Rio ]
MOAB JEEP SAFARI ["*Powerstrokeman* ..." ]
Re: FS Extended Cab Rear Seat Elevator [LARRY_HALEY HP-Boise-om2.om.hp.co]

=======================================================================

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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 12:10:54 -0500
From: Chris Hedemark
Subject: Re: highboy?

C. S. Apple wrote:
>
> What is a factory highboy?

Somebody smoking a joint on the assembly line.

I think one of these guys built my 1995 Dodge Ram. That guy had to be
smoking crack or something.

Hey, man, it's April 1. Had to do it.

- --

Chris Hedemark - chris yonderway.com - http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
"From the fury of the Norsemen, oh Lord, deliver us!"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:00:09 -0800
From: Mark Ponsford
Subject: RE: F-150 vs. F-250 Brakes

>Fellow Fordster's
>I asked this same question(s) when I started with my brake problems.
>As for answers...
>Yep, in the mechanical circles it is well known are F-150 have crappy
>brakes, (or revenue producing brakes for repair shops)
>Yep, the F-250 does have different brakes all together, and usually
>without the problems we have.
>and Nope, they will not swap over. You would have to swap out the entire
>suspension system to get the F-250 brakes.
>
>But here's a question for the group: (I have one foot in the Ford World
>and the other in the Porsche World.) For some Porsches there are
>aftermarket hubs that match the inner bearing sizes but have the outer
>shapes or design of the bigger, better brake systems enabling you to bolt
>on these hubs and use the big brakes without replacing the whole
>suspension. Is this out there for Fords?
>
>
>Mike Mueller
>

>>> It's a whole lot easier to pop in new pads if thats all you need. >>
>>I guess thats what I 'll continue to do. Pads are much cheaper and easier to
>replace than rotors. I did have the master checked and the Midas guy (High
>School Buddy) said it was fine. He told me that they do brakes on the 150's
>all the time. Do the 250's have heavier duty pads/calipers/rotors? Will they
>swap to the 150 IFS?
>Joe Downey

I've been told that the F150 front calipers are single piston where as the
F250 calipers are dual piston. I would guess that this means more surface
area on the F250 pads. Does anyone know what the differences are between
the F250, F250HD, and F350 front brakes?

Mark Ponsford

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:08:43 -0700
From: "Scottie Schmidt"
Subject: Got my Truck

Hi, I sent a message out last week stating that i was looking for a F-150 older than
a 95 and new than a 88. I got a couple of reply and i would like to thank all of
you who did reply. Well i got a 1994 F-150 with 125,000 miles, bedliner, AC, 5 speed,
new back tires, and it is a straight six, and i only paid about $5,000. I was wondering
if a straight six is better than a 4 cylendar, or worst than a 6 cylendar or what??
Also i posted a message asking about what type of truck would be best for a 14.5
acre farm. I got replies telling me what kind of truck would be good but i had know
idea what kind of truck they were telling me about. The only Ford trucks i know
about are the F-150,250,350 and Superduty. If anyone could tell me which one of
those would be best that would be great!! The person who i am requesting this information
for is buying the farm and will be raising Alpackas, bording horses, and will have
chickens and a couple of dogs. They are looking for a good truck for this type of
farm in the price of about $10,000. Any information would be greatfuly appreciated.

Thanks,
Scottie




Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mailexcite.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 15:50:04 -0700
From: Bill Funk
Subject: Re: F-150 vs F-250 Brakes

> From: Chris Hedemark
> Subject: Re: F-150 vs. F-250 Brakes
>
> Mike Mueller wrote:
>
> > But here's a question for the group: (I have one foot in the Ford
> World and the other in the Porsche World.) For some Porsches there
> are aftermarket hubs that match the inner bearing sizes but have the
> outer shapes or design of the bigger, better brake systems enabling
> you to bolt on these hubs and use the big brakes without replacing the
> whole suspension. Is this out there for Fords?
>
> If you've got money to burn in order to have better brakes, you might
> check into Stillen's BREMBO brake system. These binders are
> incredible. I have never felt like brakes were worth the kind of
> money
> that they charged, but I've been in cars & trucks that had 'em and
> they
> stop so hard your eyeballs are likely to pop out (yes, even on a
> chebby
> "sherman tank" suburban). Truck systems are a lot of $$$ though and I
>
> wouldn't be surprised if it were around $3,000 for an F150. Still, no
>
> fullsize truck will be able to stop like you after installing these
> brakes, unless they've also isntalled a set of Brembos. :-)
>
> I think their web site is http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.stillen.com
>
> Chris Hedemark - chris yonderway.com - http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com

I have a problem with that last statement.
On my F250, I can press the brake pedal hard enough to activate the rear
ABS and keep the front tires on the verge of lockup. This is the best
braking available on the vehicle, and the limit is a function of the
tires, not the brake system.
Putting a Brembo system may alter how much pedal pressure is necessary
to do the same thing, but it can't alter the actual results.
There's an ad on TV now for some brake pad that mkaes the claim that no
other pads can stop the shown vehicle (a Sunurban) faster than their
brake pads. Why? Because they all stop the thing at the same rate,
because that rate is a function of the tire adhesion (traction), not the
brake pads. Note, the claim is not that their pads stop better, or
faster, but that none of the others can beat theirs, which makes sense,
since the pads are not the controlling factor in single stops.
Now, when we get to prolonged hard use, different pads make a
difference, but unless we are towing, or travelling a lot in hilly
country, or racing, that's not much of a problem.

Bill Funk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:35:50 -0800
From: "Mike Miller"
Subject: Re: F-150 vs F-250 Brakes

I have to disagree with the statement that all pads will stop the same.
Look at what it takes to stop a vehilce. The kinetic energy in the forward
motion is converted into heat by the brakes - the better a pad/rotor
absorbs/dissapates the heat, the faster the vehicle stops. The pad material
plays a very big part. So does the size of the rotor/drum. Thats why 12 inch
brakes stop better than 10 inch brakes. The larger rotor is able to
absorb/dissapte more heat than a smaller one. The coefficient of friction
between the tires and the hiway naturally also plays in the equation - look
at dry vs wet stopping.
I'm sure others can explain it better than I.

mike
85 F250 4x4, xcab,6.9l banks turbo.

>
>I have a problem with that last statement.
>On my F250, I can press the brake pedal hard enough to activate the rear
>ABS and keep the front tires on the verge of lockup. This is the best
>braking available on the vehicle, and the limit is a function of the
>tires, not the brake system.
>Putting a Brembo system may alter how much pedal pressure is necessary
>to do the same thing, but it can't alter the actual results.
>There's an ad on TV now for some brake pad that mkaes the claim that no
>other pads can stop the shown vehicle (a Sunurban) faster than their
>brake pads. Why? Because they all stop the thing at the same rate,
>because that rate is a function of the tire adhesion (traction), not the
>brake pads. Note, the claim is not that their pads stop better, or
>faster, but that none of the others can beat theirs, which makes sense,
>since the pads are not the controlling factor in single stops.
>Now, when we get to prolonged hard use, different pads make a
>difference, but unless we are towing, or travelling a lot in hilly
>country, or racing, that's not much of a problem.
>
>Bill Funk
>
>+--------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 ----------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
>| List removal instructions on the website. |
>+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:43:15 EST
From: FoMoCoNUT2
Subject: Re: R12 vs R134

In a message dated 98-04-01 10:30:07 EST, you write:


have the URL here but I can probably find it if anyone's interested. >>


Yes I think all can benifit from this Website. Please post.

Thanks,

John Miller

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 17:16:09
From: "M. Monninger"
Subject: EPA A/C Certification (was: Re: R12 vs R134)

Several people have asked for the URL I mentioned. Here it is:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.epatest.com/

Lots of other info, too, including why R-134 isn't as cold as R-12...

Disclaimer: I have no connection with this company, just passing along some
info.

Enjoy...

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:25:57 EST
From: R2G
Subject: Re: case of r12

Hey, are you selling it by the can or case? I would be interested in a can or
two. Please let me know. Thanks, Ron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:28:52 EST
From: R2G
Subject: Re: r-12

Hey, I would probably be interested in a can or two of r-12. What's your
price? Thanks, Ron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 21:18:37 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: highboy?

Talk to the guys on the 70's list, if my memory serves me right (and
that would most definitely be a rare thing) the 72-77 Ford F-250's had
high arch springs and sat up very high, therefore "highboy",
especially when compared to other trucks of that era. Whether or not
it can stand for something else, I don't know.

C. S. Apple wrote:
>
> What is a factory highboy?
>
> C
>
> +--------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 ----------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 21:23:20 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: F-150 Brakes

I read an article not too long ago on putting aftermarket stainless
steel brake rotors on trucks. I don't remember (surprise) whether or
not it was Ford specific, but I think they make them for F-150's
(tried for the 250, nada). They even have swap out rotors for rear
drums. If anyone is interested, I'll dig it up and post it, or if you
e-mail me directly I'll let you know too.
Later,
Randy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:37:59 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Intake manifold

At 07:09 PM 3/31/98 -0900, you wrote:
>I finally ordered a new manifold for my motor and need to know about the new
>fuel line. The two fuel inlets don't line up, so I need to modify the line
>a bit. Should I cut the old line and attach a rubber line, or is it
>possible to cut and thread the end and attach one of those cool looking
>braided lines on there?
>
>Casey
>

Braided lines look cool but they tend to eat away at anything
they rub. This is something to consider.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:21:05 -0600
From: Jim Cannon
Subject: RE: Miles per gallon I-6

Huff-

Your experience is consistent with mine. I have 1980 I-6 with carb, C-6
trans, A/C. I always run here near sealevel; never been to the mountains
with it.

Jim Cannon
Houston, Texas

Listen to "Car Talk" on National Public Radio
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.msn.cartalk.com/
"Celebrating 10 Years of Bad Car Advice"



huff wrote:

I am curious to find out what other inline-6 owners get for gas miliage
with 80-85 non fuel injected ford trucks? Especially if they live at a
high altitude location like Denver. I have had an 82 4 x 2 (with
duraspark II) which at sea leval got 17 mpg highway but when I moved to
the Rockies would only get 14 highway and 12 city. My 85 (with TFI-IV)
gets only 16.5 highway and 13 city at high altitude and 18 mpg highway
at east coast sea level. I have advanced the timing 2 degrees and
adjusted fuel mixture (truck has a yfa feedback carb) to compensate. I
would like to see if other I-6 drivers have come up with other ways to
increase their miliage or if this is the norm?
- --

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 22:17:57 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Pigeon Forge show

It's official, Ford Truck Enthusiasts will have a booth at the
20th Annual F100 Nationals in Pigeon Forge, Tenn! Show dates
are (this is from the promoter himself, there have been
conflicting dates mentioned): May 14-17 (Thursday through
Sunday). We may have the booth space as early as Thursday
morning but it may not get set up until the afternoon (paying
vendors get moved in and setup first). We plan to have the
booth up the entire weekend.

We plan to give out brochures and sell the window stickers
there. I need to get some volunteers to man the booth a couple
of hours each so I don't spend the entire show sitting in a
chair..... I really want to get a chance to look at some of the
trucks! Even taking a 30 minute session would be great so I
could make bathroom runs!

Concerning a Ford Truck Enthusiasts picnic, the entire town
is booked solid. We'll have to informally arrange a time
and place to meet for dinner while at the show.

If you need show information, check out the event guide on the
web site. Looking forward to meeting many of the list members
there. Perhaps the west coast members could arrange to meet at
a west coast show?

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 22:26:25 -0500
From: Tom and Amanda Lang
Subject: Licensed for R12

Two comments from different posts:

>Dad went to be licensed for R-12 and =
>hazardous waste piping, and for both ran him around $1500.

I am a "card-carrying" able-to-purchase R12 (or R134a if and *when* that
requires a license) kinda guy because, for $20, in 1994, I sent off to MACS
(Mobile Air Conditioning Society) for their licensing kit. It consisted of
a multiple choice, open book test. Period. Supposed to be lifetime. I
jumped on it at the time even thought I really didn't *need* it because I
figured sooner or later the price for licensing would go *way* up and/or it
would require periodic renewals but I would be "grandfathered" in.

>It will also keep the tree huggers off of your back on
>while on your way deer hunting drinking a cold beer.

Unless it is smuggled in, there is a fixed amount in this country. And
someday, whether I or someone else owns it, it *will* leak out of whatever
it is contained in . . .

Tom Lang


**************************************************************
Greetings my friend, we are all interested in the future, for
that is where you and I are going to spend the *rest* of our
lives. And remember my friend, future events such as these
will effect *you* in the future.

- --Criswell Predicts, from Ed Wood's "Plan 9 From Outer Space"
**************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:16:55
From: yhtlines surfari.net
Subject: exhaust system costs

Just took the son's F150 302 4X down and got an entire new single exhaust
system put on it.

$165 for mandrel bent 2.5" (replacing the stock 2.25") aluminized tubing,
and a big free flowing aluminized all welded seam truck muffler. Took about
40 minutes. Sounds very good,and should last a long time. I did not get
dirty, have to lug the old stuff away, buy any tools, take off any wheels.
The old system had gotten to the point it had holes in it. We are both
convinced the engine runs smoother now. And most important, the son is
happy with it.

I stayed away from the 3" due to reports on here about loss of torque on a
302 with 3". A turbo muffler would have lowered the price to $125. I could
have had a 3" with a flowmaster for $200.

Dave Lampert

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:17:48 -0900 (AKST)
From: Larry Rizzo
Subject: 94- 7.3 diesel i.d. turbo -hard start

I have replaced the check valve- 2 glow plugs-new glow plug timer relay-
checked the timing- serviced the fuel separter- 88k on engine but will grind
while doing a cold start..any hints?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:28:32 -0600
From: Anthony Rio
Subject: RE: R12 vs R134

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5DBD.81586D20
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Yeah... when Dad went for the licensing, I think the $1500 was more for =
the hazordous waste licensing than anything else. toxic and nuclear, =
medical waste, et.....

The $20 bucks or so was wholesale in bulk.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hedemark [SMTP:chris yonderway.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 9:21 AM
To: fordtrucks80up listservice.net
Subject: Re: R12 vs R134

Anthony Rio wrote:

> Last summer one of the Chicago television stations did a story about =
A\C recharging, and a lot of the service stations got on and said how =
they have to charge $80 to $100 per re-charge because they paid around =
$5000 to $8000 for the licensing, and $600 to $700 for the R-12. Makes =
me wonder who the h*ll they buy from! Dad went to be licensed for R-12 =
and hazardous waste piping, and for both ran him around $1500.

That's a crock. I have my licensing and there is no way it costs that
much. The license is so easy to get. You sit in front of a short
videotape that tells you how bad it is to release freon into the air.=20
You have to know how short the hoses have to be on the recovery system.=20
Then you take a one page written test. I had never worked on an A/C
system in my life but when I was working at Pep Boys selling tires of
all things, I was required to take the exam with the mechanics. Every
one of us passed. Took no more than an hour out of our day.

> Granted, 6 or 7 years ago you could get the same tank for about $20, =
but there still seems to be some "half-truths" coming from the =
retailers.

6 years ago Pep Boys marked up the big cans to about $100 and the little
cans for like $20.

- --=20

Chris Hedemark - chris yonderway.com - http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
"From the fury of the Norsemen, oh Lord, deliver us!"



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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5DBD.81586D20--

+--------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 - 1996 ----------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
| List removal instructions on the website. |
+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:57:55 PST
From: "*Powerstrokeman* ..."
Subject: MOAB JEEP SAFARI

HI
For all you 4x4 finatics, I would like to inform you and welcome you to
come to 4 wheel drive heaven. It's Moab, Utah and if you haven't heard
of it it is a small tourist town with awesome 4x4 trails surrounded by
red rocks. Since all of you own Fords (if you don't you should) I'd like
you to show up all the Chevys, Dodges, Toyotas, etc. especially the ones
with the Calvin pissing on Ford stickers. Tens of thousands of 4x4s show
up just to have fun, thousands of others show up just to look at the
monsters. This is Moab's precious event and you will be pleased. It is
April 4 to April 12. At least look into it. It is awesome!

And for all you show-offs there is a huge car show on April 25th.
It's awesome too.

/\ /\ /\
|~****~|
`------`
Ford Diesel

Long Live The King
POWERSTROKEMAN


______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:08:56 -0700
From: LARRY_HALEY HP-Boise-om2.om.hp.com
Subject: Re: FS Extended Cab Rear Seat Elevator


Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:59:59 -0500
From: Tom and Amanda Lang
Subject: FS Extended Cab Rear Seat Elevator

I have a 1993/F250/ext. cab/7.3TD/4x4/ZF/4.10. There appear to be a
few
aftermarket "stands" that elevate the rear seat to more like the later....


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