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Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 04:00:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks80up-digest)
To: fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #85
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Sender: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks80up-digest Saturday, August 30 1997 Volume 01 : Number 085



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

Re: wiring (again) [dhollingworth juno.com]
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #84 ["Alan Heaberlin" ]
Which Tires? [Dale Grein ]
Re: Which Tires? ["L Gordon" ]
Re: ABS [Bill Funk ]

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Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:45:51 EDT
From: dhollingworth juno.com
Subject: Re: wiring (again)

On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:24:32 -0800 "Casey Vandor"
writes:

>Even though the truck is an '83 I have a computer? What does
>the computer
>control? The duraspark brainbox is on the drivers side wheelwell, the
>engine is carborated, (Motorcraft 7200 Varible Venturi) So I don't
>understand what the computer would be for.
>Any suggestions?
>thanks
>Casey


I have a 1984 Bronco with the same engine and ignition. My computer is
located under the dash on the drivers side. Once a relay went out and
the computer didn't get any power and the truck went into some limp mode
and ran lousy. I know that the computer controls the timing advance and
wouldn't let my timing advance until it was fixed. The computer also may
control some of the emissions equipment. My carb also has a sensor that
detects the throttle opening and adjusts the timing. Luckily I had a
good mechanic who was able to replace the relay for $20 and not try and
stick me for a new computer. Hope this helps. I assume that your
computer is working fine. Everything that I know about mine is due to
some type of failure.

David Hollingworth
1984 Ford Bronco

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:50:01 -0700
From: "Alan Heaberlin"
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #84

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> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 06:10:06 -0700
> From: Bill Funk
> Subject: Re: abs brakes
>
> > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:33:27 -0400
> > From: "C. E. White"
> > Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #81
> >
> > Larry Smeins wrote:
> >
> > > A comment on your feelings about ABS. First, IMHO a well
> > > designed ABS system is worth its weight in gold. I drive a 10 year
old
> > > German car with Bosch 4 wheel ABS and it has saved my ass more than
> > > once.
> >
> > I have the opposite opinion of ABS. My feeling is that 4 wheel
anti-lock
> > brakes are not particularly valuable unless you are a skilled driver.
> > Most tests I am aware of show that cars with 4WABS actually have
> > stopping distance slightly longer than cars without ABS Brakes. 4WABS
> > brakes do allow you to steer while braking hard, but most people don't
> > have the skill to use this to their advantage. US insurance studies
show
> > no advantages for cars with 4 wheel anti-lock brakes (i.e., damage and
> > injury claims are the same as for cars without anti-lock brakes). I
> > think 4 wheel anti-lock brakes are expemsive, complicated and mostly
not
> > useful. If I had the choice I would not have them on my current
> > Expedition. I do think the rear anti-lock brakes on pick-ups are a good
> > compromise. They should keep the rear wheels from locking during a
panic
> > stop. This will keep the rear end from coming around during a panic
stop
> > while the truck is empty. With only the fronts locked, you will stop
> > straight ahead in the shortest possible distance.
>
> I don't know which studies you are reading, but almost all studies show
> that, on most road surfaces, ABS systems will stop a vehicle in a
> shorter distance than all but the most experienced driver can without
> it.
> The most probable reason that ABS-equipped vehicles don't show a drop in
> accidents is because the drivers simply take the ABS into account, and
> push the envelope that much further.
> In pickups (or any vehicle), locked brakes make for longer stopping
> distances than tires that aren't locked, but are just on the verge of
> locking up.
> I have a '91 F-250, and a '92 Explorer Sport, both with ABS. I hardly
> ever get to use the ABS, because, by long-ingrained habit, I modulate
> the brakes when braking hard. With 2-wheel ABS, this will give me a
> shorter stopping distance than simply tromping on the brakes, as well as
> providing steering control, which is absent with locked front tires.
> You're not alone, though. Many drivers don't see any advantage to ABS,
> because they never learned how to properly modulate theyr brakes, and
> never actually took the time to compare different braking techniques
> under controlled (non-emergency) conditions (present company excepted,
> of course).
>
> - --
> Bill Funk
> President, ASCII User Group
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.starlink.com/~ascii

Ahhh, wonderful controversy!
ABS brakes are primarily intended for middle-aged women (yeah and some men
too) drivers so that they do not lose entire control of the vehicle when
locking up the brakes. By shifting the weight forward without losing front
wheel traction most of our vehicles (with some understeer built in by
design) will recover nicely by themselves.
The technique of modulating your brake pedal is called "threshold braking"
and an experienced driver can almost always stop faster in a car without
ABS. Threshold braking is useless in an ABS vehicle. For most "normal
driving" ABS is a good compromise. If you really don't want it or want to
disable it for your next ProRally event--pull the fuse!
I am a B certified (130mph +) automotive test driver and drive high
performance cars daily. I leave it turned on in in MY wife's Explorer.
Hope I helped.
Alan Heaberlin
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color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 06:10:06 =
- -0700> From: Bill Funk <
color=3D"#0000FF">skypilot starlink.com
color=3D"#000000">>> Subject: Re: abs brakes> > =
> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:33:27 -0400> > From: "C. =
E. White" <
color=3D"#0000FF">cewhite3 interpath.com
color=3D"#000000">>> > Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest =
V1 #81> > > > Larry Smeins wrote:> > =
> > >         A =
comment on your feelings about ABS.  First, IMHO a well> =
> > designed ABS system is worth its weight in gold.  I drive =
a 10 year old> > > German car with Bosch 4 wheel ABS and it =
has saved my ass more than> > > once.> > > =
> I have the opposite opinion of ABS. My feeling is that 4 wheel =
anti-lock> > brakes are not particularly valuable unless you =
are a skilled driver.> > Most tests I am aware of show that =
cars with 4WABS actually have> > stopping distance slightly =
longer than cars without ABS Brakes. 4WABS> > brakes do allow =
you to steer while braking hard, but most people don't> > have =
the skill to use this to their advantage. US insurance studies =
show> > no advantages for cars with 4 wheel anti-lock brakes =
(i.e., damage and> > injury claims are the same as for cars =
without anti-lock brakes). I> > think 4 wheel anti-lock brakes =
are expemsive, complicated and mostly not> > useful. If I had =
the choice I would not have them on my current> > Expedition. =
I do think the rear anti-lock brakes on pick-ups are a good> > =
compromise. They should keep the rear wheels from locking during a =
panic> > stop. This will keep the rear end from coming around =
during a panic stop> > while the truck is empty. With only the =
fronts locked, you will stop> > straight ahead in the shortest =
possible distance.> > I don't know which studies you are =
reading, but almost all studies show> that, on most road =
surfaces, ABS systems will stop a vehicle in a> shorter distance =
than all but the most experienced driver can without> it.> =
The most probable reason that ABS-equipped vehicles don't show a drop =
in> accidents is because the drivers simply take the ABS into =
account, and> push the envelope that much further.> In =
pickups (or any vehicle), locked brakes make for longer stopping> =
distances than tires that aren't locked, but are just on the verge =
of> locking up.> I have a '91 F-250, and a '92 Explorer =
Sport, both with ABS. I hardly> ever get to use the ABS, because, =
by long-ingrained habit, I modulate> the brakes when braking =
hard. With 2-wheel ABS, this will give me a> shorter stopping =
distance than simply tromping on the brakes, as well as> =
providing steering control, which is absent with locked front =
tires.> You're not alone, though. Many drivers don't see any =
advantage to ABS,> because they never learned how to properly =
modulate theyr brakes, and> never actually took the time to =
compare different braking techniques> under controlled =
(non-emergency) conditions (present company excepted,> of =
course).> > - -- > Bill Funk> =
President, ASCII User Group >
color=3D"#0000FF">http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.starlink.com/~ascii
color=3D"#000000">Ahhh, wonderful controversy! ABS brakes =
are primarily intended for middle-aged women (yeah and some men too) =
drivers so that they do not lose entire control of the vehicle when =
locking up the brakes. By shifting the weight forward without losing =
front wheel traction most of our vehicles (with some understeer built in =
by design) will recover nicely by themselves.The technique of =
modulating your brake pedal is called "threshold braking" and =
an experienced driver can almost always stop faster in a car without =
ABS. Threshold braking is useless in an ABS vehicle. For most =
"normal driving" ABS is a good compromise. If you really don't =
want it or want to disable it for your next ProRally event--pull the =
fuse!I am a B certified (130mph +) automotive test driver and drive =
high performance cars daily. I leave it turned on in in MY wife's =
Explorer.Hope I helped.Alan Heaberlin

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Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:41:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dale Grein
Subject: Which Tires?

Hi all!

I need new tires but don't know which brand to buy.
Are Hoosier AT's good?
I live in Canada and havn't been able to find Micky T's which are my favorite.
I need 31x10.5x15 All Terrains.
Any help would be very much appreciated.

P.S. My tires were the cause of my truck severely pulling toward the ditch.
The thing was you couldn't tell just by looking at the tire.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:48:02 +800
From: "L Gordon"
Subject: Re: Which Tires?

On 30 Aug 97 at 1:41, Dale Grein wrote:

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:41:39 -0400 (EDT)
To: Ford Truck List
From: Dale Grein
Subject: Which Tires?
Reply-to: fordtrucks80up listservice.net

Hi all!

I need new tires but don't know which brand to buy.
Are Hoosier AT's good?
I live in Canada and havn't been able to find Micky T's which are my favorite.
I need 31x10.5x15 All Terrains.
Any help would be very much appreciated.

P.S. My tires were the cause of my truck severely pulling toward the ditch.
The thing was you couldn't tell just by looking at the tire.


I just recently put the same size tires as you mentioned on my 93
Flareside 4x4. They are BF Goodrich All-Terrain Radials, and I just
love the improved ride!! They appear to be real grabby on the wet
pavement as well, as BFG sipes the All-Terrains for added traction.

Lisa
aka "hugacub"
in the great Pacific Northwest!!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 02:25:53 -0700
From: Bill Funk
Subject: Re: ABS

>
> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:58:25 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "C. E. White III"
> Subject: Re: abs brakes
>
> >I don't know which studies you are reading, but almost all studies show
> >that, on most road surfaces, ABS systems will stop a vehicle in a
> >shorter distance than all but the most experienced driver can without
> >it.
>
> Well I can't quote a study without doing some research but I can report on
> my old roomates experience at a BMW Driver's school. They stopped his BMW
> (530i) both ways. It would stop much shorter with the ABS disconnected (on
> dry pavement). The instructor could beat either a lock-up (no ABS) or a stop
> with ABS on.
>
> Can you quote your "studies".
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed White
>

Not gonna.
They are ubiquitous, common knowledge, and readily available to anyone
who can read Consumer Reports.
If you will read the part you quoted above, you will see that I said
that a very experienced driver could beat ABS. How many of the students
at that BMW drivers school could beat the ABS? I'd wager hard currency
the answer is few to none.
Later in the digest I'm quoting, there's a listing of different road
surfaces, with stopping distances for different types of ABS and locked
tires. This is a deceptive listing. While most of the surfaces listed
have locked tires giving the shortest stopping distances, such surfaces
are also those that are driven on the least. On dry pavement, where the....


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