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Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:26:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks80up-digest)
To: fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #168
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fordtrucks80up-digest Thursday, October 16 1997 Volume 01 : Number 168



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: OIL (Synthetic + Rant) [David Hertzberg ]
Re: 1988 F-150 has miss [Rich Lobrovich ]
carb/man FOR SALE [james oxley ]
Ford Ranger (97) Noise Problem Identified ["Robert Stinnett ]
Re: 1997 Ford Ranger XLT [silent.bob juno.com (Silent . Bob)]
Re: How much is a ??? worth? [silent.bob juno.com (Silent . Bob)]
Re: Wheel price? ["Jerry Dean" ]
Re: Wheel price? [Todd Metzger ]
Drilling Holes in Bumper [Tony Rio ]
Drilling Holes in Bumper [Tony Rio ]
Re: OIL (Synthetic + Rant) [Ken Payne ]
Re: Drilling the front bumper [James Forrest ]
Exhaust systems ["Eric Schimmelmann"]
F150 4.9 I-6 HAS MIS [Timothy P Fagrey ]
Re: 1988 F-150 has miss ["Jason Johnston" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 97 05:34:33 PDT
From: David Hertzberg
Subject: Re: OIL (Synthetic + Rant)

Dave R.: I take it you don't believe in oil additives;-). In the interests of
exchanging ideas and insights and furthering the lists' knowledge about what
clearly is a controvesial and emotionally-charged topic, I solicit your comments
and observations on the following: I am by no means defending additives, of which
I too--knowing something about how engines work--am generally skeptical. But I
have tried a product called Tribotech, and the fact is that it did actually improve
my mileage by about 10 to 15 percent in my diesel (I miswrote earlier when I
noted I experienced a 7 percent increase in mileage). I measured the mileage
improvement over a period of about 5 weeks. I made no changes in my driving
habits, and purchased my fuel at the same station. You clearly are quite
knowledgable and I would appreciate your insights; what could this stuff have
done to lead to the improved mileage? The manufacturers claim the product's secret
and patented ingredients actually "bind to the metal surfaces" in the engine in a
unique way and offer a money back guarantee if there is no discernable improvement
in mileage, etc. (I used some in our Toyota Tercel (EFI)--in whose transaxle
I do, incidentally, use synthetic gear oil--and got no improvement whatsoever,
asked for and received my money back.)

A credible and well-respected mechanic in the Washington DC area--a fellow named
Pat Goss--who hosts a weekend radio show and occassional television series, runs
workshops for the public, etc.,--also has endorsed it. This is what he says he
did: He added the product during his oil change, ran the car for about 100 miles.
Then drained out all the oil and put on a new filter. He then drove the car for 30
minutes at highway speeds with the AC on, and it ran fine, he says. He sells the
product in his shop--but does not sell any of the other additives (Slick50, etc)
nor does he endorse any of these other products. I carry no brief for Mr. Goss,
but I find his experiement compelling. At the same time, will ANY engine from
which the oil has been drained and on which a new filter has been placed run for 30
minutes with just the residual oil remaining inside? (A friend of mine who builds
dragsters says yes.) I would appreciate your comments.

Your explication of synthetics was interesting and informative. Yet you do not
indicate the frequency of oil changes with synthetics. What would your
recommendation be?


David H.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:08:28
From: Rich Lobrovich
Subject: Re: 1988 F-150 has miss

I have the same problem with no resolve after replacing many of the same parts.
I think it might be in the chip ???
I replaced the parts as a Major tune up not just a replace and see what happens
My 1988 has 196K miles and runs with a mis at lower RPM's 800-1200
I have lived with this problem since 1990 85K miles
Oh well the truck still runs great other wise
Rich Lob
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 07:56 PM 10/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I need some help trouble shooting my F-150 with the 4.9 I-6 engine. The
>truck has 186,000 miles
>and it has had a stumble or miss for the last 110,000 miles. The miss is
>worse in damp or cold weather
> but it is present all most all of the time. Parts I have replaced:
>EGR VALVE, FUEL FILTER, OXYGEN SENSOR,
> EGR VALVE P0SITION SENSOR, THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR, COIL, PLUG WIRES,
>DIST. CAP, IGNITION MODULE, PIP SENSOR,EEC-IV MODULE, THERMOSTAT. I
>have checked the MAP sensor according to
> the HAYNES manual, it was ok. The fuel pressure is in spec at idle and
>at higher RPM. I have looked for
>a vacuum leak and can't find one. A compression check seemed to
>indicate all was well inside the
>engine. The miss occurs between 1500 and 2000 RPM and will go away if I
>increase the throttle. The fuel
>injectors have only been cleaned with gas additive cleaners, never at a
>garage. I drove with a vacuum gage connected for a while and it behaved
>as you would expect except during a steady cruise (where the miss occurs)
>it seemed to have a slight vibration. This truck has duel tanks, and it
>does not matter which one is used.
>Any and all help is greatly appreciated. terry.parker juno.com
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks80up-request listservice.net |
>+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+
>
>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Lobrovich
AIR HVAC
1878 W. 11 TH. ST. # 350
Tracy CA 95376-3736 209-836-0326 lob vornet.com
Air Conditioning Sales , Service , Consultation
If you have a question regarding Air Conditioning Call me ???
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:25:41 -0700
From: james oxley
Subject: carb/man FOR SALE

Howdy

I have a Holly, 600 CFM, vac sec w/electric choke and 351W performer
manifold for sale. Looking for 210$ for the pair. Very little use.

OX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:08:48 EDT
From: "Robert Stinnett TSO8352 - HOMENODE"
Subject: Ford Ranger (97) Noise Problem Identified

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey all - Thought I'd update you on the "noise" I reported a day or two
ago. I took it into the dealer and he informed me that it was a normal noise
and most likely the one I was hearing was the fuel injectors. Sure enough,
he showed me some of the other Rangers on the lot and I heard the same noise
from all of them.

In the three weeks I've had this Ranger I've racked up almost 1,300 miles on
it! For the first week or so I had a serious case of "cruise-itis" :-)
Better start scheduling that first oil change any time now :)

Looking forward to the list...

Robert

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:38:53 EDT
From: silent.bob juno.com (Silent . Bob)
Subject: Re: 1997 Ford Ranger XLT

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:24:59, -0500 KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J
TENNEY) writes:
>Robert,
>
>Congrats on your new truck! I had a '95 with the 4 and just bought a
>'98 (new front end and suspension) reg cab shortbox with the 4.0L V6
>and a sitck. Mine is Black, too. Everyone warned me about how hard
>it is to keep clean, but I love the truck anyway.
>
>Josh
>KNBD87D prodigy.com

I didnt know it was a Reg cab SB.... ...bet that thing will haul butt
with
some mods on it. :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:38:53 EDT
From: silent.bob juno.com (Silent . Bob)
Subject: Re: How much is a ??? worth?

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:34:27 -0500 Bradley and Debbie Miller
writes:
>I've got a 1995 Ford Ranger Splash with about 45K miles on it and a
>4.0L
>and 5 speed . . . cruise, AC . . . etc... About what is one of
>those
>worth? I was just given an outrageous $8,000 value for the truck.
>NADA/bank says it should be about $10,000 or so.
>
>Anyone else???????
>
>Thanks!


Go to www.kbb.com and check the value of your truck. I think they said
my
95 ext cab 4 banger with with almost no options was worth $8500 and that
was at 60K miles.

I would say your bank is closer to the value.

.---. .-----------
/ \ __ / ------
/ / \(..)/ -----
////// ' \/ ` --- http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.FordManTed.com (Mustang Shop)
//// / // : : --- http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.FordRanger.com (Ranger Site)
// / / /` '--
// //..\
=======UU====UU===[silent.bob juno.com]=[95 Ranger SOHC 2.3L]=
'//||\`
''``

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:04:17 -0400
From: "Jerry Dean"
Subject: Re: Wheel price?

I have a set to sell too. I have the 5 teardrop aluminum rims from Ford.
I want to sell them because they are just collecting dust right now in
storage. They have 31x10.50x15 mud terrain tires mounted on them and are
only 4 months old. Bought them for last winter, but we never had any snow.
Anyone interested or know of anyone looking?

- -----Original Message-----
From: Luke Wells
To: fordtrucks80up listservice.net
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 12:17 AM
Subject: Wheel price?



>I was wanting to get new wheels and tires, but I need to sell my old
>ones first. I have a 96 Ranger with 15" chrome stock rims. I was wanting
>to know a good prices if I sold the rims with the tires. Also the
>centercap is also chrome.
>
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks80up-request listservice.net |
>+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:21:38 +0000
From: Todd Metzger
Subject: Re: Wheel price?

Jerry Dean wrote:

> I have a set to sell too. I have the 5 teardrop aluminum rims from Ford.
> I want to sell them because they are just collecting dust right now in
> storage. They have 31x10.50x15 mud terrain tires mounted on them and are
> only 4 months old. Bought them for last winter, but we never had any snow.
> Anyone interested or know of anyone looking?

Jerry,
How much are you asking for the wheels and tires? Also, how many if any miles
are on the tires? Finally, what shape are the wheels in? Thanks.

Todd Metzger
tmetz umr.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:29:51 -0600
From: Tony Rio
Subject: Drilling Holes in Bumper

Josh...
Thanks for the suggestion, but my vacation house has a two rut dirt road
in, and it has a tenancy to get pretty rough and soupy. I had thought
about mounting the lights under the bumper, but they are about 6" tall, and
I'm afraid I would plant one or just sheer them off completely. Right now I
think my best bet is going to be a grill guard.

Thanks Again!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:30:39 -0600
From: Tony Rio
Subject: Drilling Holes in Bumper

Bob...
I think I will just go with the grill guard, because it seems easier, and
should look pretty slick. I wasn't really to worried about drilling the
bumper, as it has see some abuse from digging out rocks from my
driveway when one of the front tires sinks in a mud hole. Also, I think I'm
going to bite the bullet and see if I can find a bigger alternator to put in the
truck. Better safe than sorry.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:32:31 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: OIL (Synthetic + Rant)

At 05:34 AM 10/16/97 PDT, you wrote:
>Dave R.: I take it you don't believe in oil additives;-). In the interests of
>exchanging ideas and insights and furthering the lists' knowledge about what
>clearly is a controvesial and emotionally-charged topic, I solicit your comments
>and observations on the following: I am by no means defending additives, of which
>I too--knowing something about how engines work--am generally skeptical. But I
>have tried a product called Tribotech, and the fact is that it did actually improve
>my mileage by about 10 to 15 percent in my diesel (I miswrote earlier when I
>noted I experienced a 7 percent increase in mileage). I measured the mileage
>improvement over a period of about 5 weeks. I made no changes in my driving
>habits, and purchased my fuel at the same station. You clearly are quite
>knowledgable and I would appreciate your insights; what could this stuff have
>done to lead to the improved mileage? The manufacturers claim the product's secret
>and patented ingredients actually "bind to the metal surfaces" in the engine in a
>unique way and offer a money back guarantee if there is no discernable improvement
>in mileage, etc. (I used some in our Toyota Tercel (EFI)--in whose transaxle
>I do, incidentally, use synthetic gear oil--and got no improvement whatsoever,
>asked for and received my money back.)
>
>A credible and well-respected mechanic in the Washington DC area--a fellow named
>Pat Goss--who hosts a weekend radio show and occassional television series, runs
>workshops for the public, etc.,--also has endorsed it. This is what he says he
>did: He added the product during his oil change, ran the car for about 100 miles.
>Then drained out all the oil and put on a new filter. He then drove the car for 30
>minutes at highway speeds with the AC on, and it ran fine, he says. He sells the
>product in his shop--but does not sell any of the other additives (Slick50, etc)
>nor does he endorse any of these other products. I carry no brief for Mr. Goss,
>but I find his experiement compelling. At the same time, will ANY engine from
>which the oil has been drained and on which a new filter has been placed run for 30
>minutes with just the residual oil remaining inside? (A friend of mine who builds
>dragsters says yes.) I would appreciate your comments.
>
>Your explication of synthetics was interesting and informative. Yet you do not
>indicate the frequency of oil changes with synthetics. What would your
>recommendation be?
>
>
>David H.
>

Many of these types of products use a chlorine based machining oil as their
"secret" ingredient. Usually these type of additives put a disclaimer
somewhere that says "Contains no chlorine". Well, technically salt is
soduim chloride and you can say salt contains no chlorine although at the
elemental level it does. They tend to use some sort of chlorine based
compound. Why? Because chlorine based machine oils are extremely slick.
They've been used by machine shops for over 50 years. However (here's the
gotcha), these oils, over time, end up corroding and pitting the very surfaces
they "protect"! Hence that's why they're used in machining applications
where the cutting surfaces are replaced often because they wear out
anyways.

Do you want this to happen in your engine? Heck, by the time the damage is
done the so called 50,000 mile (or whatever) guarantee period for these
products is over. Do yourself a favor, follow the Snake Oil link on the
web site. Read about what the small engine company did as a test after they
saw their engines having oil drained out to prove how great some additive
was. They found out that all their engines continued to run without oil
and the oil that was in the engine prior to draining as untreated.

As to "binding" to engine parts.... I say horse puckey. Water binds to
engine parts, its called "surface tension". I did an experiment one time to
prove a point. I took a piece of flat steel, put a couple drops of standard
motor oil in it and stuck it in a Mason jar, vertically, then sealed the jar
(to simulate the dust free environment of an engine). The oil stayed visibly
on the steel for 4 months!!! Yes, most drained off, but a film stayed on.

Does the endorsement of a local-yocal mean anything? Not in my book. This
man is being **paid** to say what he says and he sells the stuff.

As to running an engine without oil for 30 minutes. Yes, you can get away
with it with some engines. The cooling system in addition to residual oil
in the engine is keeping the engine from falling apart. Years ago my
sister had a 68/69? Camaro Rally Sport Convertible (nice car). She didn't
have the slightest clue about maintenance. She ran it for 20,000 miles
without changing the oil or adding any. When the car finally did, it was
because what little oil it had left had gelled to the consistency of cold
bearing grease and the cam snapped. Given the fact that it took 20,000
miles to eat 4.5 quarts of oil I'm willing to bet that it ran without
any (or a significant amount) oil for several hundred miles. If the
additive company that had they been scientific about it they would have
done the following:

a. Measure bearing thickness
b. Measure oil pressure
c. Drained the oil
d. Take a small sample of residual oil and get the metal content
analyzed.
d. Drive car for 30 minutes
e. Take another small sample of residual oil and get the metal content
analyzed.
f. Fill the engine back up with oil.
g. Measure the oil pressure again
h. Measure bearing thickness

I can almost guarantee you that after the 30 minute drive the oil pressure
would be lower, bearing thickness decreased and the metal content of the
oil skyrocketed.

These "experiments" they conduct are jokes. I really enjoy the one where
they stop some buffoon with a car that has bad lifter tap. Then the pour
the stuff in and in a couple of minutes it magically smooths out and gets
quiet. I can do the same thing with a bottle of automatic transmission
fluid (good solvent) or Marvel Mystery Oil (better solvent).

Teflon has been proven to have no benefit for engines. But 15 years ago
it was the "magic" stuff to put into your engine. 15 years prior to
that STP was the magic stuff (heck, its just very thick oil which cushions
worn bearings, temporarily). Now something new is on the block and
these con-men get rich until they get found out.

If GM or Ford (or any of the other) could get 15% percent more milage out
of an engine just by pouring in a fluid, they would. They spend billions
trying to squeeze every ounce of milage out of an engine they can.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:05:04 -0500
From: James Forrest
Subject: Re: Drilling the front bumper

I have a 96 Ranger with four 165 watt kc lights mounted up top and to 55
watt driving lights mounted on the bottom. I never have had a problem
with my voltage dropping. My alternator is 95 amps. Have you
considered a light bar for the lights, they are fairly inexpensive

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 97 16:45:13 -0500
From: "Eric Schimmelmann"
Subject: Exhaust systems

I have a 1994 F-150 extended cab 2 wheel drive with the 302 motor and
automatic overdrive transmission.

I was looking at installing a cat back exhaust system from one of the
aftermarket suppliers. Does anyone have any experience with these
kits and this style truck. Are the claims of better gas mileage and
more power really true. Is the price justifiable?

I've read quite a few articles on installation and the claim of more
power but I would like to hear from someone who installed the kit on
there daily driver. Was it worth the cost over the long haul

Thanks

E.Schimm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:10:06 -0700
From: Timothy P Fagrey
Subject: F150 4.9 I-6 HAS MIS

You wrote:

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:25:26 -0600
From: "Ryan Penner"
Subject: Re: 1988 F-150 has miss

- - -----Original Message-----
From: Terry D Parker
To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 9:09 PM
Subject: 1988 F-150 has miss

>I need some help trouble shooting my F-150 with the 4.9 I-6 engine. The
>truck has 186,000 miles
>and it has had a stumble or miss for the last 110,000 miles. The miss is
>worse in damp or cold weather
> but it is present all most all of the time. Parts I have replaced:
>EGR VALVE, FUEL FILTER, OXYGEN SENSOR,
> EGR VALVE P0SITION SENSOR, THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR, COIL, PLUG WIRES,
>DIST. CAP, IGNITION MODULE, PIP SENSOR,EEC-IV MODULE, THERMOSTAT. I
>have checked the MAP sensor according to
> the HAYNES manual, it was ok. The fuel pressure is in spec at idle and
>at higher RPM. I have looked for
>a vaccuum leak and can't find one. A compression check seemed to
>indicate all was well inside the
>engine. The miss occurs between 1500 and 2000 RPM and will go away if I
>increase the throttle. The fuel
>injectors have only been cleaned with gas additive cleaners, never at a
>garage. I drove with a vaccuum gage connected for a while and it behaved
>as you would expect except during a steady cruise (where the miss occurs)
>it seemed to have a slight vibration. This truck has duel tanks, and it
>does not matter which one is used.
>Any and all help is greatly appreciated. terry.parker juno.com

I have the EXACT same problem, I have replaced quite a few of the
same parts with not luck. The TPS did make it not as bad, but it is still
there. I also have a I6 with 170,000 miles on it.

I also have the same problem - the dealer, though, says that my truck is the best
running I-6 he's seen. I notice it mainly around 1500 RPM - otherwise it runs great,
although, the gas mileage is not that great(15mpg hwy). If anyone has a clue, please let me know.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:25:31 PDT
From: "Jason Johnston"
Subject: Re: 1988 F-150 has miss

>From owner-fordtrucks80up listservice.net Wed Oct 15 20:10:01 1997
>Received: from localhost (bounced localhost) by listservice.net (8.8.5)
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>Received: (from terry.parker juno.com)
> by m24.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XNV12263; Wed, 15 Oct 1997
23:05:04 EDT
>To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:56:01 -0500
>Subject: 1988 F-150 has miss
>Message-ID:
>References:
>X-Mailer: Juno 1.38
>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3,5,8,10,12,14,17,19-20
>From: terry.parker juno.com (Terry D Parker)
>Sender: owner-fordtrucks80up ListService.net
>Reply-To: fordtrucks80up listservice.net
>
>I need some help trouble shooting my F-150 with the 4.9 I-6 engine.
The
>truck has 186,000 miles
>and it has had a stumble or miss for the last 110,000 miles. The miss
is
>worse in damp or cold weather
> but it is present all most all of the time. Parts I have replaced:
>EGR VALVE, FUEL FILTER, OXYGEN SENSOR,
> EGR VALVE P0SITION SENSOR, THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR, COIL, PLUG WIRES,
>DIST. CAP, IGNITION MODULE, PIP SENSOR,EEC-IV MODULE, THERMOSTAT. I
>have checked the MAP sensor according to
> the HAYNES manual, it was ok. The fuel pressure is in spec at idle
and
>at higher RPM. I have looked for
>a vaccuum leak and can't find one. A compression check seemed to
>indicate all was well inside the
>engine. The miss occurs between 1500 and 2000 RPM and will go away if
I
>increase the throttle. The fuel
>injectors have only been cleaned with gas additive cleaners, never at a
>garage. I drove with a vaccuum gage connected for a while and it
behaved
>as you would expect except during a steady cruise (where the miss
occurs)
>it seemed to have a slight vibration. This truck has duel tanks, and
it
>does not matter which one is used.....

---

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