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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 03:50:24 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks80up-digest)
To: fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #287
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Sender: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks80up-digest Thursday, January 1 1998 Volume 01 : Number 287



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

re:new guy, 1999 f250 questions [KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)]
Re[2]: new guy, 1999 f250 questions [bthomas Kollsman.com]
auto locking hubs [Claude King ]
Re[3]: new guy, 1999 f250 questions [Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)]
Happy New Year! [KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)]
Re:auto locking hubs [Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)]
Re: new guy, 1999 f250 questions [Chad Royse ]
Re[4]: new guy, 1999 f250 questions [bthomas Kollsman.com]
RE: Powerstroke slow speed shutdown? [Randy Rees ]
3rd seat for explorer?? ["Nathan L. Iven" ]
Octane....the real story [rsmall isgroup.net (Robert Smallwood)]
Re: Happy New Year! [JOUZA1 ]
V8 engines ["Duane J. Standaert" ]
[none] ["Gary Snook" ]
[none] ["Gary Snook" ]
ADMIN: quoting messages [Ken Payne ]
How do I boost engine performance in a 1996 351 ["Phil McCrory"
ADMIN: Street Classics [Ken Payne ]
Re: How do I boost engine performance in a 1996 351 ["Bruce A. Ramirez"
Re: How do I boost engine performance in a 1996 351 [Midwest96
Re: Carpet [Cerveza6 ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:34:43, -0500
From: KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)
Subject: re:new guy, 1999 f250 questions

Daryl,

First of all, pricing will not be available until Jan. 5th. Ford
tells us that is the day.

Secondly, I doubt you will find out what invoice price is. Your
local dealer won't tell you and shouldn't. The dealer has to make a
living, too, so you don't need to know invoice. Also, you will never
pay invoice on a new 1999 model because they will be rare right away.
Each dealer will get one by the end of Jan., but then will get more
and more as time goes by.

Ford claimed an increase in mileage for the V10 over the 460, but the
increase, if any, is very slight. Maybe 1 mpg, which is about 10% in
those gas hogs. The 5.4L V8 will deliver better mileage than the V10,
but is has less power, a noticeable difference!

I don't know the answer about toppers. Your best bet is to call
around to everybody. They should have toppers ready for these new
trucks when they come out.

Power windows and locks are only available on the XLT and Lariat
packages.

The crew cabs are about 9 inches longer overall than the '97s.

If you want the bumpers the same color as the truck, you should
either order the XL package and have the bumpers painted to match, or
get the chrome bumpers with the XLT package and get bumper covers
when available, or order argent colored bumpers from the parts
department and paint over them. I am having the same problem you are.
I have a 1998 Ranger XLT that is black and it had a chrome grille
and bumpers. I got a paint shop to paint the grille black, but they
wouldn't paint the bumpers. I am going to order a front bumper cover
from Lund and order a new rear bumper to be painted black.

I am not sure about the wheels yet. There are several wheel choices
when ordering a 1999 F-Series, and Ford hasn't shown us pictures or
anything of the different styles.

I hope this helps.

Josh Tenney
Sales Representative
Lakeland Truck Center
So. St. Paul, MN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:28:33 -0500
From: bthomas Kollsman.com
Subject: Re[2]: new guy, 1999 f250 questions

You are kidding. I have never bought a new vehicle without tying the deal
to the invoice price and you do need to know invoice so you can refuse to
pay the "Dealers Assn Advertising Fee" and other bogus fees that should be
considered "the cost of doing business". If you can't buy a new vehicle for
$0 to $500 over invoice (less the "ad fee") then you don't need the
vehicle! Don't forget, on a $30K vehicle, the dealer will still make a
significant "holdback" plus incentives.
BTW, all this deal making has to do with "ordered" vehicles since the
dealer won't have to "floor plan" it. If you buy off the lot, you may have
to pay more. Also, for reference, a full tilt "98" F-150 4wd xcab etc.,
etc., but no leather or abs will MSRP for about $30.5K. These trucks carry
about a 12% average margin so the invoice will be about $26.8K.

Good luck
Bob Ford


______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: re:new guy, 1999 f250 questions
Author: KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY) at KOLLSMAN
Date: 12/31/97 9:34 AM




Daryl,
First of all, pricing will not be available until Jan. 5th.
Ford
tells us that is the day.
Secondly, I doubt you will find out what invoice price is.
Your
local dealer won't tell you and shouldn't. The dealer has to
make a
living, too, so you don't need to know invoice. Also, you will
never
pay invoice on a new 1999 model because they will be rare right
away.
Each dealer will get one by the end of Jan., but then will get
more
and more as time goes by.
Ford claimed an increase in mileage for the V10 over the 460,
but the
increase, if any, is very slight. Maybe 1 mpg, which is about
10% in
those gas hogs. The 5.4L V8 will deliver better mileage than
the V10,
but is has less power, a noticeable difference!
I don't know the answer about toppers. Your best bet is to
call
around to everybody. They should have toppers ready for these
new
trucks when they come out.
Power windows and locks are only available on the XLT and
Lariat
packages.
The crew cabs are about 9 inches longer overall than the '97s.
If you want the bumpers the same color as the truck, you should
either order the XL package and have the bumpers painted to
match, or
get the chrome bumpers with the XLT package and get bumper
covers
when available, or order argent colored bumpers from the parts
department and paint over them. I am having the same problem
you are.
I have a 1998 Ranger XLT that is black and it had a chrome
grille
and bumpers. I got a paint shop to paint the grille black, but
they
wouldn't paint the bumpers. I am going to order a front bumper
cover
from Lund and order a new rear bumper to be painted black.
I am not sure about the wheels yet. There are several wheel
choices
when ordering a 1999 F-Series, and Ford hasn't shown us
pictures or
anything of the different styles.
I hope this helps.
Josh Tenney
Sales Representative
Lakeland Truck Center
So. St. Paul, MN
+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer
- --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net,
|
| List removal instructions on the website.
|
+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
- -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:53:27 -0500
From: Claude King
Subject: auto locking hubs

I'm planning on buying a 99 ford 350 4X4, from the spec sheets the shift on
the fly [electric shift] comes with auto locking hubs. The manual shift
comes with manual hubs. I don't want electric shift and I don't want to get
out and lock hubs, besides buying the autolock hubs from Ford does any
third party make auto lockers that might be stronger/cheaper ?

//ck

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:46:39 -0500
From: Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)
Subject: Re[3]: new guy, 1999 f250 questions

Are you saying that you have successfully bought a vehicle without paying the
$250 dealer advertising fee? Plus you got it near invoice. My last vehicle 93
explorer, I paid invoice, $18300 but got stuck with the delivery and add fees.

Thanks,

Daryl Rue

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:57:52, -0500
From: KNBD87D prodigy.com (MR JOSH J TENNEY)
Subject: Happy New Year!

Hey y'all,

I would like to wish ya a happy and safe new year.

Josh

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:55:14 -0500
From: Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue)
Subject: Re:auto locking hubs

I think that means you either get manual shift on the floor or push button on
the dash. I do not think any of them are manual locking hubs. I could be
wrong, but that is the way I interpreted that option on my options sheet.

Thanks,

Daryl Rue

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:26:25 -0800
From: Chad Royse
Subject: Re: new guy, 1999 f250 questions

I would like to talk about invoices. At least in the state of Ohio, the
dealer MUST show you the invoice of a vehicle upon request. It is public
information. That's how places like Edmund's get their information. (Try
Edmund's at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.edmunds.com) You don't think Ford, Chrysler, GM, or
others WANT you to have this powerful tool do you?

Also, dealerships get all kinds of incentives and kickbacks for the
vehicles they sell. Ever here of a dealer holdback? It is typically 3% of
the MSRP (not the negotiated price) for the dealer.

So look at some of the big dealerships, with their huge fancy showrooms,
weekend cookouts and what not and tell me they are hurting for money.

So to the point, insist on seeing all your invoices. Believe me that the
dealership's idea of a fair price is bias. Your only negotiating power is
knowing what they know.

And FYI: I have purchased two new Ford trucks over the past 5 years and
have yet to pay a dime over invoice. I just helped a friend of mine order
a 98 F150 OffRoad supercab, at invoice.

Oh and here's one more helpful tidbit for new truck buyers. If you want to
pay invoice, but are not comfortable with insisting on an invoice price,
try AutoByTell. You can find them on Edmund's site as well. They are very
good at getting people into new cars and trucks at invoice, no
negotiating. A guy at my work was very pleased with them.

And don't ever pay more for a vehicle so some one can make a better living
or feed their children (yes, I have heard it). No body gives me handouts
and I have to budget my money to make sure everyone is fed and clothed,
rather than trying to screw the money out of somebody else. Besides, I
read that Ford MoCo makes nearly $10,000 on every Expedition. If sales
associates feel they don't earn enough on a sale, I think they should whine
to Ford not to the consumers.

Good luck to all you Ford Truck buyers out there!!
Chad

'97 F250HD 460 4x4 SCab XLT

MR JOSH J TENNEY wrote:

> Daryl,
>
> First of all, pricing will not be available until Jan. 5th. Ford
> tells us that is the day.
>
> Secondly, I doubt you will find out what invoice price is. Your
> local dealer won't tell you and shouldn't. The dealer has to make a
> living, too, so you don't need to know invoice.

That last line is synonymous with vaseline.

> Also, you will never
> pay invoice on a new 1999 model because they will be rare right away.
> Each dealer will get one by the end of Jan., but then will get more
> and more as time goes by.

^snip^

> Josh Tenney
> Sales Representative
> Lakeland Truck Center
> So. St. Paul, MN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:56:46 -0500
From: bthomas Kollsman.com
Subject: Re[4]: new guy, 1999 f250 questions

That's what I'm saying. The way you do this is to be your own salesman. You
need to know exactly what you want and what it invoices for. You do the
work. Also, no trade. You road test somewhere else with just any sales guy.
Then you write every thing down sort of like an informal contract. You walk
into the dealer and find one of the top two salesweasels and present him
with the deal. Tell him you've done all the work. Tell him your serious and
you don't want to pussy foot around. He should go immediately to the sales
manager to get approval. Tell them your going to buy a vehicle, somewhere,
some brand, within a week. If they don,t take the deal then you walk. You
can leave the paper depending on how much they pi*s you off and if you do,
chances are they will call you after a couple days and go with the deal or
very close to it.

Bob Ford


______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: Re[3]: new guy, 1999 f250 questions
Author: Daryl.Rue entex.com (daryl rue) at KOLLSMAN
Date: 12/31/97 3:46 PM




Are you saying that you have successfully bought a vehicle
without paying the
$250 dealer advertising fee? Plus you got it near invoice. My
last vehicle 93
explorer, I paid invoice, $18300 but got stuck with the
delivery and add fees.
Thanks,
Daryl Rue
+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer
- --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net,
|
| List removal instructions on the website.
|
+----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
- -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:46:18 -0800
From: Randy Rees
Subject: RE: Powerstroke slow speed shutdown?

Mine not only has a slight off idle but I've had it die twice and once
while I shifted into "N" while coasting to a stop. I've suspected the
cam sensor, may need to take it back to Ford for some extra service


RandyR

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rsmall isgroup.net [SMTP:rsmall isgroup.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 1997 6:36 PM
> To: fordtrucks80up-digest listservice.net;
> cummins hpukldh.cup.hp.com
> Subject: Powerstroke slow speed shutdown?
>
> Anyone had these symptoms?
>
> This has happened about 6 times over a 1 year period-
> At very slow decel rates such as approaching a stop or parking space,
> the engine just quits. I have never had any shutoffs while runnig or
> accelerating.
>
> A guy in OK City told me it is a cam timing sensor adjustment-any
> experience with this?
>
> It's not a drivability problem, but would like to know what makes the
> beast die like that.
>
> Robert
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer
> --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net,
> |
> | List removal instructions on the website.
> |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
> -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:02:55 -0600
From: "Nathan L. Iven"
Subject: 3rd seat for explorer??

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD15FD.2D2EE880
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Does any one know if there is an aftermarket option for a third seat in =
a '92 explorer. Even something like the old station wagons that faces =
backwards. My neighbor had a recent edition to the family this =
christmas, and space is getting tight!=20
Are there any legal issues w/ fabricating your own????

Nathan L. Iven =20
nathan.iven usa.net
1994 f-150sc "300"

- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD15FD.2D2EE880
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






http-equiv=3DContent-Type>



Does any one know if there is an =
aftermarket=20
option for a third seat in a '92 explorer. Even something like the old =
station=20
wagons that faces backwards. My neighbor had a recent edition to the =
family this=20
christmas, and space is getting tight!
Are there any =
legal issues=20
w/ fabricating your own????
Nathan L.=20
Iven           &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p; =20

href=3D"mailto:nathan.iven usa.net">nathan.iven usa.net1994 =
f-150sc=20
"300" 

- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD15FD.2D2EE880--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:06:59 -0600
From: rsmall isgroup.net (Robert Smallwood)
Subject: Octane....the real story

Dave R.,

Hey, thanks for the real info on the octane issue and the site location
that explains it. I did misunderstand the flash point characteristic,
but had the symptoms (autoignition occurring and interfering with the
normal ignition) correct.

What I had previously understood-
>Lower octane fuels with a lower flash point (ignites at a lower temperature), can actually
ignite prematurely and make that nasty "pinging" sound >

What I learned-

Simply put, the octane rating of the fuel reflects the ability of the
unburnt end gases to resist spontaneous autoignition under the engine
test
conditions used. If autoignition occurs, it results in an extremely
rapid
pressure rise, as both the desired spark-initiated flame front, and the
undesired autoignited end gas flames are expanding. The combined
pressure
peak arrives slightly ahead of the normal operating pressure peak,
leading
to a loss of power and eventual overheating. The end gas pressure waves
are
superimposed on the main pressure wave, leading to a sawtooth pattern of
pressure oscillations that create the "knocking" sound.

The combination of intense pressure waves and overheating can induce
piston
failure in a few minutes. Knock and preignition are both favoured by
high
temperatures, so one may lead to the other. Under high-speed conditions
knock can lead to preignition, which then accelerates engine destruction
[27,28].


Robert

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:19:34 EST
From: JOUZA1
Subject: Re: Happy New Year!

I want to wich you a happy new year also Uncle Russ and Aunt Sharon and I hope
you had a merry Christmas!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:28:01 -0700
From: "Duane J. Standaert"
Subject: V8 engines

I have a 81 Ford Mustang with the inline 200cubic inch 6 cylinder. I have plans
on removing the 6 and puting in a V8. I was thinking of a 302 or a 351. I'm not
sure if the 351 will fit or not. My question is which one should I go for and if
anyone has one for cheap so I can rebuild it from scratch. Any opinions on how much
I should pay, what speed goodies I should use, what I should look for and which V8
I should go for would be greatly appreciated.



Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.mailexcite.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 11:30:05 -0600
From: "Gary Snook"
Subject: [none]

>And just one more thing, why did Ford have the top of my radiator
>> sharpened to a razor's edge, knowing full well I would have to scrape my
>> forearms over it again and again. I love pain but this is too much!
>> Thanks!
>LOL, agreed! In fact aren't there two sharp edges up there? They must
>have stolen a design patent from Gilette on how to cut closer w/twin
>blade action. I'm afraid to lean down on mine!!
>Later,
>Randy

Actually, as an appliance repairman, I can attest to the fact that Roper
Corp (now part of GE) had the sharpest panels of all, that is until their
"Die Shappener" retired, and wasn't replaced due to down - sizing.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:32:25 -0600
From: "Gary Snook"
Subject: [none]

you have a large overload. that is why the lights go out and the belt
squeals. Besides this noise, there is another symptom that you will find
hand in hand here. SMOKE and HEAT. wherever it is happening, that short is
producing melted wires. As soon as it happens, get under the truck and
start feeling wires. Be careful, they are probabally hot enough to remove
skin.

My .02
Gary




problem. Whatever it is sounds like vibration brings out the culprit.
>Apparently if you turn on the lights and they all come on with the truck
>not running and sitting still, they will stay on, but you didn't state
>that for sure
When the truck is not running it all works perfect. If I start it up and
turn those lights on, and let it run, it still works
fine. If I drive the truck, I can get about 1/4-/12 mile up the road till
it starts pulling that crap on me again. I am
thinking maybe there is an over load in the system that is causing my
alternator to work hard, thus making my belt squeal. The
belt only squeals when the lights are acting up! If it is running and the
system is working fine, it does not squeal at all.
. You can be pretty sure that it isn't a wire going to any
>one individual light, but a power source for all of them, even though
>only one light came on after hitting the side of the truck (unless, of
>course, it's a wire to each and every light, but doubt that). Start at
>the taillights and trace the wires back to the front. There will

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:24:55 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: quoting messages

Just a helpful hint: when replying to posts, please
trim off all parts of an email which aren't relevent
to your reply. This helps keep the size of the emails
down, the digests aren't as big and our archives won't
grow so large we can't put them on the web site.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:07:59 -0800
From: "Phil McCrory"
Subject: How do I boost engine performance in a 1996 351

Hi have a Ford F-150 with a 351ci engine. After adding a lift kit (6
inches) and 35 inch tires, I am in need of more power out of the engine. I
am looking for opinons regarding

Adding a turbo charger
Adding a super charger
Changing an EPROM

I am looking for feedback from anyone who has successfully performed any of
the modifications listed above.

Thanks,

Phil

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:37:16 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Street Classics

Dear Ford Truck Enthusiasts:

We have another new advertiser on our web site. As we've done
for our other advertisers we're going to make a brief announcement
for 2 days. This is the 2nd day. This is our way of saying thanks
to them for helping us to expand our services to everyone here.
Please show your appreciation to them for helping to support the web
site and lists by checking out their site:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/streetclassics.shtml
(This is an "anchor" page that will forward you to theirs)

Street Classics carries thousands of Obsolete and Hard-To-Find
Genuine FORD and LINCOLN/MERCURY parts and accessories for your
FOMOCO vehicles from 1950-1997.

Now returning you to our regularly scheduled program...

Ken Payne
CoAdmin,
Ford Truck Enthusiasts

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:07:36 -0500
From: "Bruce A. Ramirez"
Subject: Re: How do I boost engine performance in a 1996 351

You don't need more power. You need to change your gears in the axles to
a lower range. If you had 3.55 gears with 235/75R15 tires, you now need
4.56 gears to compensate for the 35 inch tires. this will bring your
engine back into it's proper power range.

Happy New Year

Bruce Ramirez
'91 F-150 4x4

Phil McCrory wrote:
>
> Hi have a Ford F-150 with a 351ci engine. After adding a lift kit (6
> inches) and 35 inch tires, I am in need of more power out of the engine. I
> am looking for opinons regarding
>
> Adding a turbo charger
> Adding a super charger
> Changing an EPROM
>
> I am looking for feedback from anyone who has successfully performed any of
> the modifications listed above.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |....

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