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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 03:50:35 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks80up-digest)
To: fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #260
Reply-To: fordtrucks80up ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks80up-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks80up-digest Friday, December 12 1997 Volume 01 : Number 260



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 And Newer Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
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with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. For help, send
email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: super chargers [greg.medert gsa.gov]
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #258 ["Mike Jones"]
Re: "The Jacuzzi" [Eric W Sneed ]
RE: F150 horsepower rating ["Beaman, James" ]
Re: Supercharger. [YEAGS15962 ]
New Truck ["John D. Bowne" ]
Re: Supercharger. [Geoffrey Hoffman ]
1996 F150 [Arkady Shapiro ]
Re: 1996 F150 [Mark Ponsford ]
RE: 1996 F150 [Arkady Shapiro ]
Power Steering Pump: 88 F250 Diesel [John Pinkham
1993 460" Sucab Dually 4x2 Ford E4OD shifting ["Joseph L. Casey"
Re: Is my cup half-full or half-empty? [Dc9315 ]
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #259 [Dinga15 ]
fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #259 [Andrew T Vincitore
Re: Gibson & etc. for 351 [Gary Gadwa ]
Catbacks/Gibson [yhtlines surfari.net]
Re: New Truck [Ken Payne ]
Re: Headers Answer [Gary Gadwa ]
E4OD now 4R100 ["Joseph L. Casey" ]
Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #259 [Randy ]
ADMIN: Resubmit your web site classifieds [Ken Payne
Turbo vs. Supercharger [Tyler Abbott ]
Re:Turbo vs. Supercharger [Geoffrey Hoffman ]
4 X 4 Service [RNSRobert ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 97 08:46:00 (-0500)
From: greg.medert gsa.gov
Subject: Re: super chargers

- --UNS_gsauns2_2759377096
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Josh, you can never go wrong with a larger throttle body and mass air
meter. This will only give you more HP over the supercharger stock
engine ratings. You will see a bigger increase with these items. As
for do the kits come with them. The answer is maybe. Some
manufacturers sell supercharger packages which include throttle body
etc. Such as BBK or Brothers Perf. You can also buy the supercharger
by itself. I would recommend going ahead with the mass air and TB so
you can enjoy some driving until next summer, I don't believe you will
save any money buying it all at once. The BBK SC is a roots type
blower which replaces the stock intake. The Paxton and Vortech units
are centrifugal type and bolt on like an air conditioning compressor
or accessory. I have heard pros and cons on both types. My Ford
Performance buddy has not installed a BBK unit but installed many
Paxton's and Vortechs on Rangers/Explorers. He prefers the Vortech
simply because he has had to rebuild many of the Paxton's and has not
rebuilt a single Vortech unit. The Paxton has a separate reservoir
and the Vortech uses the engine oil ( have to plumb it up) Maybe its
because they took it to someone else for repair but I doubt it. Hope
this helps.

greg.medert gsa.gov
Atlanta, GA

- --UNS_gsauns2_2759377096--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:26:03 -0500
From: "Mike Jones"
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #258

[[[[Mike Jones
The parts that fail on these units is not the engaging surfaces (splines
inside the hub housing). If you pull off the hub, you'll see 3 pawl fingers
that engage with a camming surface around the outside of the spindle. Any
significant turning of the axel relative to the spindle will push the pawls
into the hub, engaging the splines. The pawl fingers are attached to a ring
shaped base. On older units the pawl assembly is cast of aluminum. This
ring presses agains another ring inside the hub, which is made of plastic.
These two rings rub (and wear) against each other for a moment every time
the unit is engaged. Now, the big kicker is that these things try to engage
in 2 wheel mode at times, when you are turning. This is due to of the
nature of the universal joints in the axel, so you are causing wear to some
degree every time you drive the truck.
After taking mine apart (not easy) and calling Ford to see if the rather
small and inexpensive to make parts were available, I was told and that it
would be about $250 per side to replace the whole unit. Warn, who makes the
units for Ford, gave me the same story. My truck had 30,000 miles on it and
apparently Warn felt guilty and gave me a new set of hubs. They have been
redesigned with steel cams and better grease and are supposed to last
longer, but if I were spending the money, I'd get manuals.
By the way, Warn says the grease is kinda high tech stuff, and should be
left in there for life. They also mentioned that too much grease would
prevent engagement because it is not compressable and may not be able to
move out of the way of the assemblies when they try to engage.]]]]




Thanks for your informed response! I took the broken one apart yesterday
and found some unidentifiable melted aluminum blobs jammed in between the
outer wavy washers (spring). The cams were there but the pawls were
unfortunately not.

Originally I was going to just let the dealer handle this, since it's hard
to find the time to devote to these types of projects these days (and it's
cold out!) but when he tried to tell me that BOTH hubs were broken, I
decided to make the time. The new hub is due in today ($200.00 at the
dealer).

Warn is absolutely correct about the hydraulic lock possibilities. When I
first put the broken one back together, (wistfully hoping that there was
enough pawl left to let it work) that's exactly what I got.

Thanks again for your help.

Mike Jones

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:14:19 -0800
From: Eric W Sneed
Subject: Re: "The Jacuzzi"

Lorne Strang wrote:
>
> > Subject: Re: Gibson cat back system
> >
> > Lorne Strang wrote:
> > >
> > > anchors, Hi-Lift Jack, Max-Tool, Nelson Industries Deck-Slider, Quadra-
> Flate
>
Easy Big Guy :]






> > Eric Snead wrote:
> > >
> > What about the jacuzzi??
> >
>
> That's in the Ch*vy - can't off-road with a Ch*vy anyway. :>
>
> Believe me, if you were stuck in the mud, had a cracked frame, or ?? you'd
> be *r_e_a_l* happy to have my truck and all it's "toys".
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net, |
> | List removal instructions on the website. |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com -----------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:31:05 -0600
From: "Beaman, James"
Subject: RE: F150 horsepower rating

Dave Lampert asked:

> Does anyone know the factory rating of an '88 F150 with an automatic?
>
Any particular engine?


James Beaman
james.beaman lmco.com
Houston, Texas

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:15:20 EST
From: YEAGS15962
Subject: Re: Supercharger.

I hope you save a lot of money for the supercharger. Do you know how much
they cost? Try about 2800-3000 dollars. All they give you is another 70 hp.
I would start small. Purchasing a larger throtle body does help but you need
to start with a free flowing exhaust then go to the mass air and throttle
body. Also recommend a high performance chip. If you want to spend a lot of
money i would just go with a v-8 conversion instead of the supercharger

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:43:18 -0800
From: "John D. Bowne"
Subject: New Truck

Sorry for the bandwidth, but....

I just picked up my just built F350 CrewCab 4X4 PowerStroke. What a blast.
This rides better and is actually quieter at speed than my old '90 F250
SuperCab (custom trim level).

More later,

johnbo




John D. Bowne - Cornelius, OR
John.D.Bowne tek.com
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Stolen .Sig Line: |
| "Salad is not food. Salad is what food eats" |
| Corollary : |
| "If animals weren't meant to be eaten, |
| they wouldn't be made out of meat." |
|-----------------------------------------------|
| 2 Wheeled Toys 4 Wheeled Toys |
|-----------------------------------------------|
| '89 BMW K100RS '93 BMW 325i |
| '81 Honda XR250R '97 Ford F350 4x4 |
| '86 Yamaha Moto 4 |
+-----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:13:39 -0500
From: Geoffrey Hoffman
Subject: Re: Supercharger.

At 1:15 PM -0500 12/11/97, YEAGS15962 wrote:
>I hope you save a lot of money for the supercharger. Do you know how much
>they cost? Try about 2800-3000 dollars. All they give you is another 70 hp.
>I would start small. Purchasing a larger throtle body does help but you need
>to start with a free flowing exhaust then go to the mass air and throttle
>body. Also recommend a high performance chip. If you want to spend a lot of
>money i would just go with a v-8 conversion instead of the supercharger

well, but on the other side of it, you need to do a _lot_ of mods to your
truck to get the 70-80 hp that you get with a supercharger. and these add
up. Super Ford did an upgrade to a mustang, and looked at the gain/dollar
ratios, and all of their stuff they did, adding up to around 3500 got them
less hp then just adding a Vortech to it. If you want a little more power,
do a little upgrade, if you want a lot more, did a big upgrade, not several
little ones....

the other nice thing is that a supercharger increases the increase you get
with the throttle, MAF, headers, or exhaust.

just my .02....

see ya......

- --
Geoffrey Hoffman gch2 cornell.edu
Cornell University http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pobox.com/~hoffy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:02:48 -0800
From: Arkady Shapiro
Subject: 1996 F150

I plan on purchasing a 1996 F150 4x4 sometime in January.
My questions are:
- -What things should I look for in this specific truck? (based on
personal opinions or general facts)
- -I plan on using the truck to tow my 89 Mustang(which I road race), will
the 5.8 liter be adequate? Is this motor easy to modify in the F150?
- -I plan on doing some mild modifications; wheels (large tires), 3-4 inch
lift, exhaust, or should I try to find one with the heavy duty off road
package, an already modified one or just get a basic 4x4 model?

Any comments, suggestions, do's and don'ts would be greaty appreciated.
Thanks
Arkady

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:16:03 -0700
From: Mark Ponsford
Subject: Re: 1996 F150

>I plan on purchasing a 1996 F150 4x4 sometime in January.
>My questions are:
>-What things should I look for in this specific truck? (based on
>personal opinions or general facts)
>-I plan on using the truck to tow my 89 Mustang(which I road race), will
>the 5.8 liter be adequate? Is this motor easy to modify in the F150?
>-I plan on doing some mild modifications; wheels (large tires), 3-4 inch
>lift, exhaust, or should I try to find one with the heavy duty off road
>package, an already modified one or just get a basic 4x4 model?
>
I personally think that you would be better off with a F250+. In my
opinion, the F150 ain't up to the task of pulling anything in excess of
2000 lbs. You can get a beefy drive train but the brakes will still suck.


- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Ponsford
Phone: (250) 721-7397

Email: mponsfor uvic.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:21:36 -0800
From: Arkady Shapiro
Subject: RE: 1996 F150

Is the F250 the same size as the F150?
What are some other benefits of the F150 vs. F250?
> I personally think that you would be better off with a F250+. In my
> opinion, the F150 ain't up to the task of pulling anything in excess
> of
> 2000 lbs. You can get a beefy drive train but the brakes will still
> suck.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> Mark Ponsford
> Phone: (250) 721-7397
>
> Email: mponsfor uvic.ca
>
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1980 and Newer
> --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks80up listservice.net,
> |
> | List removal instructions on the website.
> |
> +----------------- Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com
> -----------------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:06:55 -0800
From: John Pinkham
Subject: Power Steering Pump: 88 F250 Diesel

When I replaced the belts on my '88 F-250 diesel, I noticed
a lot of forward and back slop in the power steering pump pulley shaft.
I could move the pulley shaft about 0.060". The shop manual mentions
that the pulley hub should be with .010" of the pump body. Local NAPA
counterman said that a lot of slop is normal. Rebuilt NAPA unit is $70.
Ford dealer asks $220. It's not noisy or leaking. Leave it in?

John Pinkham

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:53:03 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph L. Casey"
Subject: 1993 460" Sucab Dually 4x2 Ford E4OD shifting

A friend of mine described his truck's shifting pattern. As he goes up a
hill pulling a 5th wheel trailer, the truck shifts down from OD, to D & to 2
where one would expect it to. However, after he reaches the top of the hill
and starts down, the trans seems to stay in 2 on the downhill run too long.
On the down hill run or whenever the pulling demands are gone, the trans
will stay in 2 up to 4,000 rpms if he will let it. To get it to shift back
to D, he must lock out the overdrive and lighten accel. pressure nearly
totally, or the trans will jump from 2 to OD. The trans seems to hang in 2
too long before it goes into D. In order for it to go back into OD again, of
course, the OD must be locked back in after the trans gets into D.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:42:49 EST
From: Dc9315
Subject: Re: Is my cup half-full or half-empty?

question dealer about engine, more than likely under warranty engine will be
a factory rebuilt of same size, check with dealer about what you will
actually get

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:59:15 EST
From: Dinga15
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #259

am i the only one who got 3 #259 digests and 3-4 #258 digests?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:12:59 -0500
From: Andrew T Vincitore
Subject: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #259

Message text written by INTERNET:fordtrucks80up ListService.net
>I just had my E4OD rebuilt. I was told that the quicker shifts (i.e.
shift
kit) reduce the time during which the transmission slips. The transmissi=
on
gets hot when slipping (friction). Reducing heat and slippage is a very
good
thing. The trick is to find a trade-off between quick (efficient) shifts=

without harshness.

Have fun!
- - -David :-)

Hi David,
I'm looking at having my E4OD rebuilt soon. Second is slipping
intermittantly and I have 73K on the truck. So everyone is saying not t=
o
bother with shift kits etc. because most of these trannys are toast at 80=
K.
How much did you spend and did you get any of the shift mods ie: in-line
electronic, or standard type kit. What input did you get on the specs for=

the new tranny? I understand that there are a number of upgrades availabl=
e
to extend the life and shift quality. I'm sure there are others here who
have a similiar situation.

Thanks,

Andrew
92 F-250 2WD Supercab XLT 5.8 E4OD

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:52:31 -0700
From: Gary Gadwa
Subject: Re: Gibson & etc. for 351

In regards to the Question on Exhaust Systems and etc. for the 1990 351.
I have a JARDINE exhaust system. Make in Jackson Hole Wyoming. It uses a
very large high flow muffler and 3 inch pipe. My system has been holding
up great for over three years now. If its Power and Economy you're
after, you can do a lot of things to that 351. I wouldn't start out with
an MSD ignition though. Get that K&N filter or if you're flush get the
Filter Charger. I went down to FORD and got the 460 engine AIR INTAKE
snorkel as it fits directly on the 351 air box and brings in COOL air
from the grille instead of warm air from under the hood like the Filter
Charger. Remember COOL air means Power. Next. Consider the ADS Power
Chip not the Hyper Tech. Jet is Ok. Next if you are serious about Power
and Economy install the CRANE Compu-Cam. Of all the numerous things I've
done to my 1990 351 the CAM gave the greatest results. Next in line for
a little more Torque would be the Headers. The Shorty headers made for
this engine don't gain you a lot especially if you are using the Y-pipe
and a single muffler. Continuing the Saga consider just what your
driving habits and loads are. What are your Axle Ratio's and how tall
are your tires? I installed Jacobs low resistance plug wires and Hyper
Tech Pulleys. Even indexed the Spark plugs. I haul around a 9 foot 10
inch Camper and average 13 MPG on the 4X4 Supercab. Empty It gets 17
average and as high as 21. However I'm one of those excentric's that
drives by a Vaccum Guage.
There's more but don't want to totally Bore anybody.

GARY GADWA
1990 F-250 4x4 Supercab 351 modified
1996 Explorer
1931 Victoria

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:01:21
From: yhtlines surfari.net
Subject: Catbacks/Gibson

I need to get a new muffler and pipes for my son's 88 F150. Pipes are
rotting thru. The prices in the catalogs are a minimum of $250 (and up) as
most know, plus shipping. And your time and damage to install the darn thing.

I went to two local shops and got bids. First one, to do it in a stock
manner was $125. Second one to do bigger custom pipe (don't remember the
size-frist one could not bend the bigger pipe) and something like a
dynoflow (max?), and a nice chrome tip was $200.

I will go with the shop. I don't get dirty. I spend less money. Hmmmm. Why
would I want to catalog order? And the ferrous metal on there lasted well
over 100,000 miles. I don't need replacement upgrade SS.

Dave Lampert

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:13:43 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: New Truck

At 11:43 AM 12/11/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Sorry for the bandwidth, but....
>
>I just picked up my just built F350 CrewCab 4X4 PowerStroke. What a blast.
>This rides better and is actually quieter at speed than my old '90 F250
>SuperCab (custom trim level).
>
>More later,
>
> johnbo
>
>
>
>
>John D. Bowne - Cornelius, OR
> John.D.Bowne tek.com

Cool. Good to hear that its improvement (not that the older ones
were bad).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:13:04 -0700
From: Gary Gadwa
Subject: Re: Headers Answer

Headers that are coated and do have the AIR Pump Connection: I used the
Shorty style from JBA. They advertise 10 to 30 HP gains. Don't count on
that but you will see some low end torque improvement depending on the
rest of your setup.
Good luck. If you have room go with Dual Exhaust with Cross Over Pipe.

GARY GADWA
1990 F-250 4x4 Supercab 351 modified
1996 Explorer
1931 Victoria

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:24:53 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph L. Casey"
Subject: E4OD now 4R100

The Ford Truck person I deal with has told me that Ford contends it has
replaced 75% of the parts in the E4OD. I am assuming they don't mean just
this year, but mean over the course of several or more years. The new trans,
of course, is reputed to be the best thing since sliced bread. The "new
trans", now called 4R100, will be in the 1999 Fords--some or all I don't know.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:58:11 -0800
From: Randy
Subject: Re: fordtrucks80up-digest V1 #259

**********
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:25:09 -0500
> From: Jason Lester
> Subject: Wheels/Tires
>
> I've got a 1997 Ford F-250HD (old body style) and want to go to bigger
> mud-type tires. The problem is there aren't many 16" tires available. I'd
> like to get something in the 33x12.50 range. My first though was to
> replace the 16x7 wheels with 15x10's. I was told that 15" wheels won't fit
> over the brakes on the newer trucks. Does anyone have a solution to this
> problem?
>
> Thanks,
> Jason

Jason, excellent choice in vehicles (I, too, have the 250HD 4x4, but
it's an '87). Check out Tyres Internation http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.tyres1.com (that's
a number one and they have stuff other than just tires). You basically
have two options here, the first being to replace the wheels as you
mentioned, but you'd have to go up to 16.5" dia. (which would give you
more options in width and dia., but obviously more costly. The other is
keep the wheels you have and put on 265/75R16 (I think your truck came
w/245's?), these tires (using the chart for BFG Mud-terrains) have a
31.7" dia., and can be mounted on 6.5-8.5" wide wheels. It is best to
always physically measure the tire mounted on the exact type of wheel
you're using if the dia. and width are critical to you or you're getting
close to reaching maximum tire size for the wheel well you're filling.
They also mention a 285/75R16, which is rated at a 33" dia. (right up
your alley), but a minimum 7.5" wide wheel is called for. You MAY be
able to have this fit on your 7", but I would consult someone w/more
experience in such things before any attempt to do so. If you have the
265's factory, I guess part of this is null-and-void, eh? If you were
already willing to part w/the cash for the new wheels, go w/the 16.5's
and the 33-12.5x16's and make that truck look like the bad boy it
should!

Later,
Randy
> ------------------------------
**********

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:55:31 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Resubmit your web site classifieds

Due to a boneheaded mistake I accidently overwrite the
classifieds. Every ad submitted since December 2 will
need to be resubmitted.

Hat in hands,
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:09:45 -0800
From: Tyler Abbott
Subject: Turbo vs. Supercharger

Is it true there is a difference between Turbo's and Supercharger's?
I heard a charger is belt driven, and a turbo is driven via exhaust gas
pressure.
If so what are the pro/con's of each?
So the PS diesel is a Turbo, driven by the exhaust pressure.
Thanks
- -Tyler-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:41:22 -0500
From: Geoffrey Hoffman
Subject: Re:Turbo vs. Supercharger

At 2:09 AM -0500 12/12/97, Tyler Abbott wrote:
>Is it true there is a difference between Turbo's and Supercharger's?
>I heard a charger is belt driven, and a turbo is driven via exhaust gas
>pressure.
>If so what are the pro/con's of each?
>So the PS diesel is a Turbo, driven by the exhaust pressure.
>Thanks

well, they both _roughly_ do the same thing, just have different ways of
doing it. they both compress air intake, but you are right on how they
work. superchargers run off the belt, and turbo chargers run off the
exhaust. what this means is that superchargers react pretty much
instantly, can boost torque, and acceleration, but may put more resistance
on the engine. turbo chargers on the other hand take a moment to react, as
the exhaust builds up, but it is sometimes thought of getting something for
nothing: you get more power at pretty much no cost. turbos are better for
mileage and efficiency. you will find turbos in more and more cars
nowadays. rarely do you find superchargers that aren't aftermarket.

a friend once told me that a way to think of it was that drag racers use
superchargers, and indy racers use turbo chargers.....

---

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