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80-96-list Digest Fri, 29 Dec 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 267

In This Issue:
Re: What year extended cab to pursue??
Re: O2 sensors (non-Lightning)
Re: '88 150 Heater Core
Re: What year extended cab to pursue??
idling rpm
Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Re: idling rpm
Re: What year extended cab to pursue??
Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Re: O2 sensors (non-Lightning)
Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Re: What year extended cab to pursue??

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Terence Underwood" <terenceu1 prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: What year extended cab to pursue??
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:38:55 -0600


Don't leave out the '95s.  They're just like '94s but aren't OBD II like the
'96 (except California models).  I would pursue the 300 I-6 for longevity,
good gas mileage, and torque equal to the 302.  Also, why buy a 302 when you
can get a 351 with much greater torque and almost equal gas mileage numbers?

Another thing to consider is transmission.  The earlier years that you
mention will have the AOD transmission and the latter have the E4OD.  From
my experience the E4OD shifts a little better and has better durability than
the AOD.  I can't remember the year Ford switched to the E4OD, but I do know
the 302's had them a year or two before the 351's (can someone help me
here?).  An easy way to spot an E4OD is the pushbutton on the end of the
gear selector to turn OD on/off.

I would shy away from the manuals as they are Mazda units and not known for
durability.  The manual will also drastically lower towing capacity compared
to the auto trannies.

Just my $.02

Terence Underwood
terenceu1 prodigy.net

'95 Bronco EB/351W/E4OD/BW1356/8.8 3.55 open/tow pack.
'94 Probe GT/K&N cone/Dunlop SP5000/Redline lubed

-----Original Message-----
From: 80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of MykeSS aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 3:00 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [80-96-list] What year extended cab to pursue??



Hi folks_

I'm in the market for a used extended cab F150.  I like years '90-94.  What
are the pros and cons of any of these years that you're aware of?  Would you
pursue 300 6cyl. or 302 V-8 and why?  Automatic or manual?  Thanx for your
input.

Mike Schell-Smith


------------------------------

From: Fred Moreno <fmoreno dualcurve.com>
Subject: Re: O2 sensors (non-Lightning)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:44:09 -0700



Steve Randa wrote;

Well I'm pitchin' the carb and am going with FI. I've got a Bassani
exhaust with only one O2 sensor where the Y-pipe comes together. The
wiring harness and computer are setup for two 02 sensors. Should I
just
plug the one bung and add two more further up stream?

Phred Replies:

If your harness is OEM and is for two Oxygen sensors, then by all means use
both sensors. I disagree with Slamed150 aol advice.
You most likely have a SEFI system, that is each injector fires
independantly from the others. Ford has a strategy called a "cylinder
balance test" and it is included in your PCM, it requires both O2 sensors.
I believe that during the diagnostic check (cylinder balance test), the PCM
cuts back the fuel on one injector at a time and expect the Oxygen sensor
and flywheel to react appropriately.
Also SEFI systems requires the two O2 sensor set-up for better efficiency
and control. With both O2 sensors the PCM can trim the fuel tighter than it
can with one O2 sensor.

If you need I will help you with the necessary mounting bosses for the O2
sensors, you will  need to get them welded in place. The sensor mounting
bosses are 18mm threaded fittings and should be mounted where all four
cylinders of one bank can be sampled. Email me off the list.

Since this is my work email address, you guys have a nice New Year/New
Century celebration, be careful, and see you on the other side...

Phred
1995 F-150 4X4.





------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:47:34 -0800
From: Marv & Marge <ae722 lafn.org>
Subject: Re: '88 150 Heater Core


Brother Jerry out in the "Low Desert" wrote:

> 2. How hard a job is it to replace the heater core?  It started puking
> coolant into the cab while I was driving down I-5.

Jerry, You must live right!  This vehicle has to be the easiest in which
to change cores.

1.  Remove hoses from core (under the hood), which you've already done.

2.  Open glove box door.  Pop out plastic "string" from left side of door,
   and force the right side of the door around it's "stop".  Allow door to
   swing down towards floor and it lifts right out.

3.  Find the "cover" behind the glove box that's in the heater box.  The
   cover is held on with between six and nine small cap screws.  Remove
   screws, remove cover.  Put screws in plastic baggie.

4.  See the core?  Pull it toward you and it comes out.

5.  Get core fixed.

6.  Reverse procedure.  Simple, huh?

-M-

Marv Miller  mailto:ae722 lafn.org
"Striving to be the person
that my dog thinks I am".

------------------------------

From: FLR150 aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:54:19 EST
Subject: Re: What year extended cab to pursue??

Terence,
The AOD was only until 1991, the E4OD came in with the 5.0 only for 1 year in
the 1992, then they went to the glorified AODE, which is the 4R70W.
ANY of the electronic transmissions have their issues, but the early E4OD had
more than any other, just check the TSB list at ALLDATA.com to see what I
mean.


Better to be a racer for a moment, than a spectator for a lifetime
Later,
Wayne Foy
94 Flareside SC
NLOC #484
2000 #4 Top Truck
1999 #2 Top Truck
Atlanta GA
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/flr150/index.html
ICQ#58060858



------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 2000 22:00:59 -0000
From: "Hakan Rickebjer" <hakan.r sweden.com>
Subject: idling rpm

Why does my 82 250 lariat have 1600 rpm idling speed when warm?

Signup for your free Virtual Countries E-mail address at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sweden.com

------------------------------

From: Scrangler83 aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:16:25 EST
Subject: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping


I am looking into getting a 1979 bronco 4x4, C-6, 351M, with a plow. 75k
miles. Rusted bad on the bottoms of the doors. Question is, is the 351m a
real good engine, and is the C6 set up to be pushing the plow around all the
time. I know that this era of bronco is known to be good, but what are some
weak spots to ask about? How much is a new master Cyl for this truck, and how
much trouble is it to change. I am told that is all that needs done, and that
he has been through the brakes already, with new lines, so rust won't be a
problem there. I apologize for being out of date, but I am already on this
list, and assumed some people could help me out a little.
Thanks
Tom Foreman

------------------------------

From: "Jerry Godsey" <godzilla51 prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 15:44:37 -0800


The 351M-C6 combo seems to be a pretty good one from all I have seen.  I'm
not sure about the demands of snow plowing (I live in the desert), but that
is the setup most Ford trucks used for towing for years.  The master
cylinder swap shouldn't be a hard one.  If you've never done one, I would
recommend having a local shop do it.  Shouldn't cost you much more to have
it put in, and you won't have to worry about bench bleeding, etc.
Blessings,
Jerry Godsey
www.geocities.com/view_from_pew
88 F-150
95 Aerostar
89 Escort GT
66 VW Beetle
Imperial, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: <Scrangler83 aol.com>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 2:16 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping


>
> I am looking into getting a 1979 bronco 4x4, C-6, 351M, with a plow. 75k
> miles. Rusted bad on the bottoms of the doors. Question is, is the 351m a
> real good engine, and is the C6 set up to be pushing the plow around all
the
> time. I know that this era of bronco is known to be good, but what are
some
> weak spots to ask about? How much is a new master Cyl for this truck, and
how
> much trouble is it to change. I am told that is all that needs done, and
that
> he has been through the brakes already, with new lines, so rust won't be a
> problem there. I apologize for being out of date, but I am already on this
> list, and assumed some people could help me out a little.
> Thanks
> Tom Foreman
>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:46:40 -0800
From: NoTTB <dahorse jvlnet.com>
Subject: Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping


Tom

I have a 78 Bronco, and to answer your questions.... The C-6 will push a
plow as well or better than most....but abuse will still ruin it so
standard used rig comon sense applies....check fluid for burnt smell
etc..Also the biggest weakness of these rigs is the tailgate areas...the
rust will cause windows to not work etc....and they are a PITA to fix
and can be costly in sum ways. As for the master cylinder....my cost
here is less than $40 and not much of a job to change if ya can get alll
the bleeder screws lose;-))

Norm



Scrangler83 aol.com wrote:
>
> I am looking into getting a 1979 bronco 4x4, C-6, 351M, with a plow. 75k
> miles. Rusted bad on the bottoms of the doors. Question is, is the 351m a
> real good engine, and is the C6 set up to be pushing the plow around all the
> time. I know that this era of bronco is known to be good, but what are some
> weak spots to ask about? How much is a new master Cyl for this truck, and how
> much trouble is it to change. I am told that is all that needs done, and that
> he has been through the brakes already, with new lines, so rust won't be a
> problem there. I apologize for being out of date, but I am already on this
> list, and assumed some people could help me out a little.
> Thanks
> Tom Foreman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 16:01:12 -0800
From: chuck & kathy sanborn <slammer deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: idling rpm


At 10:00 PM 12/29/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Why does my 82 250 lariat have 1600 rpm idling speed when warm?
I'd suggest pulling some codes to see where it's at....one of the sensors.
Chuck


------------------------------

From: Spruce1495 aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:59:40 EST
Subject: Re: What year extended cab to pursue??

Terence
           I have a '93 F150 e/w E4OD and 5.0 FI. I bought this truck brand
new April of '93.

Bill in KY



------------------------------

From: "Andrew Abrams" <marcellus_metalcasters hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:06:10 -0500


I had a 78 Bronco with the 351M and C6, really loved that truck.  Put over
150K miles on it, but also had to rebuild the transmission and engine.  IMHO
the M block is not the greatest ford ever built, but can be made solid.  I
did put a plow on it after the engine and trans rebuild and had no problems
for the couple years after that I kept it.  The biggest reoccurring problem
that I had with the unit was the drag link, ended up changing it twice and
welded the brackets up to repair the egg shaped holes.  Oh, also had a paint
job and body work to repair the rusting that is so common.  Wish I could
find one for a hobby project, of course this would be after I got the $ to
fund such a hobby.

Andrew Abrams
Marcellus Metalcasters, Inc
Gray Ductile and Alloy Iron Castings
Steel Fabrications
----- Original Message -----
From: <Scrangler83 aol.com>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 5:16 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping


>
> I am looking into getting a 1979 bronco 4x4, C-6, 351M, with a plow. 75k
> miles. Rusted bad on the bottoms of the doors. Question is, is the 351m a
> real good engine, and is the C6 set up to be pushing the plow around all
the
> time. I know that this era of bronco is known to be good, but what are
some
> weak spots to ask about? How much is a new master Cyl for this truck, and
how
> much trouble is it to change. I am told that is all that needs done, and
that
> he has been through the brakes already, with new lines, so rust won't be a
> problem there. I apologize for being out of date, but I am already on this
> list, and assumed some people could help me out a little.
> Thanks
> Tom Foreman
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:49:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
From: Chris Hinckley <chink28 juno.com>


Unless it's had a sheltered it's life, I would suspect that the miles are
not accurate.  The C6 is a very good tranny.  Check the xfer case out as
well.  Make sure the locking hubs up front are working.  The master cyl.
isn't a big issue.  Being it has a plow, I would check all the u-joints,
springs, and shocks.

Chris Hinckley
00 - TD Excursion
95 - F150 Ext. Cab 4x4
92 - Bronco Stroked - Mass Air Conversion w/GT40 - Lifted and Locked
73 - Bronco (project trail beast)



On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:16:25 EST Scrangler83 aol.com writes:
>
> I am looking into getting a 1979 bronco 4x4, C-6, 351M, with a plow.
> 75k
> miles. Rusted bad on the bottoms of the doors. Question is, is the
> 351m a
> real good engine, and is the C6 set up to be pushing the plow around
> all the
> time. I know that this era of bronco is known to be good, but what
> are some
> weak spots to ask about? How much is a new master Cyl for this
> truck, and how
> much trouble is it to change. I am told that is all that needs done,
> and that
> he has been through the brakes already, with new lines, so rust
> won't be a
> problem there. I apologize for being out of date, but I am already
> on this
> list, and assumed some people could help me out a little.
> Thanks
> Tom Foreman
>
>

------------------------------

From: Scrangler83 aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:54:46 EST
Subject: Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping


The truck was a company truck from new - 1998, miles are proven with
documentation. If anything, that low of miles shows a lot of downtime, and
maybe maintenance needed due to that fact.

Tom

------------------------------

From: "droptopgt" <droptopgt email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: O2 sensors (non-Lightning)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:58:01 -0600


Steve,

That is just what I would do. close up the old bung and move further up
stream with to more bungs.  I think 18-24 inches from the head ought to do
the trick for you if you have that much room to play with on the exhaust
pipes coming down from the manifolds.

Craig-

94 F-150

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Randa" <sranda ch-advertising.com>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>; <SVT-Lightning egroups.com>;
<fordnatics mustangworks.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 12:30 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] O2 sensors (non-Lightning)


>
> Well I'm pitchin' the carb and am going with FI. I've got a Bassani
> exhaust with only one O2 sensor where the Y-pipe comes together. The
> wiring harness and computer are setup for two 02 sensors. Should I just
> plug the one bung and add two more further up stream?
>
> Steve Randa
> '84 F150
>



------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:14:25 -0800




Replies within:
> Unless it's had a sheltered it's life, I would suspect that the miles are
> not accurate.
Many 4wds and utility vehicles have low mileages.  It depends on the use.
We have a '79 Toyota 4wd on our ranch with under 40K miles.  It looks like
it has a million and 40K though.

> Make sure the locking hubs up front are working.
Even if the hubs were blown, its under $80 for new Warn Premium.  A good,
inexpensive upgrade anyways.  I'd be more concerned with the transfer case
and the front differential and axles.

Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke
'77 F150 4WD 429
"As fast as necessary, as slow as possible"



------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:22:51 -0800





Replies within:
> is the 351m a real good engine,
Its not the best in the Ford line, but they will last.  When its time for a
rebuild, get  400 crank, rods and pistons.

> and is the C6 set up to be pushing the plow around all the time.
It depends on how it was used in its former life.  If it was serviced
regularly and taken care of, there shouldn't be much to worry about.  If
anything, install an external trans cooler.

> I know that this era of bronco is known to be good, but what are some
> weak spots to ask about?
The 78-79 rear axle shafts are notoriously weak.

> How much is a new master Cyl for this truck, and how
> much trouble is it to change.
A new master cylinder should be around $50.  They are easy to change.  You
can buy a bench bleeder kit (some plastic pipe fittings and hose, about
$5-10) that will save a lot of time.
Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke
'77 F150 4WD 429
"As fast as necessary, as slow as possible"



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 23:43:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Slightly off-year help need- bronco shopping
From: Chris Hinckley <chink28 juno.com>


> > I know that this era of bronco is known to be good, but what are
> some
> > weak spots to ask about?
>  The 78-79 rear axle shafts are notoriously weak.

Not necessarily.  I wouldn't say the 9" rears and axles in the 78 / 79
are notoriously weak. Better the than the c-cliped 8.8.

Chris Hinckley
00 - TD Excursion
95 - F150 Ext. Cab 4x4
92 - Bronco Stroked - Mass Air Conversion w/GT40 - Lifted and Locked
73 - Bronco (project trail beast)


On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:22:51 -0800 "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
writes:
>
>
>
>
> Replies within:
> > is the 351m a real good engine,
> Its not the best in the Ford line, but they will last.  When its
> time for a
> rebuild, get  400 crank, rods and pistons.
>
> > and is the C6 set up to be pushing the plow around all the time.
> It depends on how it was used in its former life.  If it was
> serviced
> regularly and taken care of, there shouldn't be much to worry about.
>  If
> anything, install an external trans cooler.
>
> > I know that this era of bronco is known to be good, but what are
> some
> > weak spots to ask about?
>  The 78-79 rear axle shafts are notoriously weak.
>
> > How much is a new master Cyl for this truck, and how
> > much trouble is it to change.
> A new master cylinder should be around $50.  They are easy to
> change.  You
> can buy a bench bleeder kit (some plastic pipe fittings and hose,
> about
> $5-10) that will save a lot of time.
> Jason
> '69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
> '96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke
> '77 F150 4WD 429
> "As fast as necessary, as slow as possible"
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

From: FLR150 aol.com
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 02:51:32 EST
Subject: Re: What year extended cab to pursue??

Bill,
That must have been one of the last off the line. According the service CDs
that I sell, the E4OD moved to the 351 and larger CI motors in 1992. Maybe ....


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