Received: with LISTAR (v1.0.0; list 80-96-list); Sun, 10 Dec 2000 23:29:53 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 23:29:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server <listar ford-trucks.com>
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Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #256
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First an apology to Chris up there in Canada. I did think of you, but
haven't heard anything from you for so long ... I just didn't know if you
were still on the list ... ;-))
Hmmm, so you will have to do a dual conversion. My argument against
the dual set up is simply the compromises you HAVE to make. Performance is
compromised on both sides. You will have to take a power hit. As Chris has
already pointed out, mono fuelled makes a very simple installation, and
all(?) the pollution plumbing crap can be tossed out, but more importantly
the engine can be built and optimised for LPG, reducing the performance
loss. You still have the option of Turbo/Supercharging. The engine wear is
reduced. The engine oil will always look like it was just changed. The
economy is not as good as petrol, particularly at high(er) speed, but then
it's not 40-50% worst, the price difference between the two fuels.
Yes, an Econoline would be a rare beastie down here too, Your supposed to
have bought the European inspired Transit Van. Yeah !! We've got heaps of
them ... ;-))
Is it a DIY job ... Hmmm well having been seriously immersed in the industry
for the last 2 odd years, I think I would have to say 'Yes - But'. In
regards the installation of LPG equipment, it is necessary to be aware of
all the relevent licencing rules regarding the installation of auto LPG, and
have the ability to wire up components with a bit more skill than the
average stereo installer, and you are adding the complication of dual fuel,
being a plumber with a gas ticket is not good enough. Your local mechanic
will more than likely dis-own you when he finds out you are even
contemplating the LPG option. I can't speak for the rest of the world but
in Oz the regulations regarding the placement of tanks and lines, the
clearances of hot exhaust pipes, petrol lines, and LPG Tank ground
clearance, can get quite bewildering. Something as simple as the incorrect
fitment of the PCV tube to the manifold and an innocent backfire on a cold
start can blow the sump to an uncomfortable 'balloon' shape. The
incorrect routing of the water lines for the regulator can result in it
freezing and looking like a huge 'Snowball' under the hood, and you sitting
on the side of the road watching
and waiting for it melt before you even have a ghost of a chance for a
restart on LPG. Unfortunately I have now seen too many PRO jobs that have
been botched up, I know of 5 'Effies' personally that have been 'screwed up'
on the installation, and I think nephew Phred will concur on that point.
The Cost of an installation can vary enormously, depending on what equipment
'deals' they got last week. Down here you can get a FI engine set up using a
'spud fitting' of asian origin and single tank for about $1200-1300aud. My
installation of 2 X 100 ltr tanks and the OHG/M&M mixer, would be around
$3500aud, total. 'Noname' spud mixers can be had for around $20. Now you
know why we want to know exactly which mixer your getting. Whulst there is a
lot of Impco and other stuff out there, and I have heard good things about
the Canadian based Technocarb kit via this list, I have yet to actually see
one, I do think the OHG/M&M 450x kit is still a true performer, and I don't
get diddly squat for that endorsement!!
Nor does it probably mean much to you, at this point, anyway ...
If all this so far sounds like I am dumping on LPG, no I'm just pointing out
to you some things that can go wrong and you probably won't read about it on
any of the web sites promoting LPG. All the problems are generally avoidable
if you can find an installer who knows his job and you maintain the vehicle
properly. A good quality ignition system is essential for happy LPG usage.
Whulst our nephew Phred's employer is MSD, I know Phred wouldn't 'spam the
list', So I would say a Multiple Spark Ignition is a very nice LPG
Oh and I believe it works Real Good with petrol too !!
But make sure the ignition battery has more than 7 Volts, the MSD6al doesn't
have quite enough kick to cold start LPG on a flat battery.
Ask me how I know...
and the words 'Operator Error' will have to appear in the answer ...
Les, still lost in the land of OZ, but having fun in an F100, LPG fuelled,
MSD ignited, 3rd gen. water injected 351 Cleveland ...now if someone has a
serviceable and 'Cleverland' compatible supercharger kit, and would maybe
interested in doing a deal ...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conrad" <conrad conrad.uk.net>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 3:26 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: LPG/Propane
> Hi les,
> > I am using a 351 Clevo, and will still argue against the dual
> > fuel option,
> > and defend a mono Propane/LPG installation to the hilt. The
> we don't have that much LPG available here so I couldn't do that, but when
> we can get it its around half the price of unleaded.
> > Oz ? Yes!! I have to admit, when you first posted to this
> > forum and said
> > what you were driving and where you were from (UK) my
> > immediate reaction was
> > 'How much is this going to cost to re-fuel in the real world ?' ;-))
> well, yes, a bit of a concern. I've not beena ble to get an accurate
> price for the conversion, but its looks like around 1500 GBP. that will
> pay for itself in around 12000 miles, which will only take 1-2 years. It
> comes down to if you do get close to MPG of unleaded without much power
> loss. If would not take that much of a loss for it not to really be
> worth the bother.
> > Rather than try and pre-empt the questions you may have, and I'd be
> > suprised if you didn't have many, how about you get a
> > written(?) quote for the conversion paying particular notice
> thanks, I'll do that. One problem is that there is no-one anywhere near
> me that has even heard of an econoline. I dont think I can legally fit
> the stuff myself, but I'm still trying to confirm that. Is it a doable
> DIY job? Obviously fitting the bits is not hard, but what about setting
> it all up? What sort of prices to you pay for kits over there?
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:13:26 -0500
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: FTE Picture Gallery Updates
The following updates have been made to the Ford
Truck Enthusiasts Picture Gallery:
They are linked off the main page of the web site.
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:09:30 -0500
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: FTE Sale on literature and CD-ROMs
Ford Truck Enthusiasts is having a Holiday Sale!
10% off ALL books, manuals, diagrams, shop manuals and
CD-ROMs if the total for those items is $50 or more!!!!
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finalize your order.
Go to the main page of the site and click the Online
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Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
From: "Wallace A. Gustafson" <cobra2004 earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Another stupid dual tank question
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:14:36 -0700
Check with your local Ford Dealer -- Your truck might be covered under a
recall that was mandated by the NTSB/NTHSA.
Wallace A. Gustafson
1991 Ford Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (Cobra & Police Interceptor
1991 Ford F-150 XLT Lariat
1983 Kawasaki GPz1100 (ZX1100A1 Fuel Injected)
1976 Kawasaki KZ900A4
From: 80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Travis Moore
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 10:24 AM
To: 80-96-List Ford-Trucks. Com
Subject: [80-96-list] Another stupid dual tank question
The old 94 is exhibiting the infamous dual tank problem. The rear tank
works just fine. The front tank dumps into the rear when in use. I know
one of the check or "shuttle valves" as Ford calls them is bad, but which
one? And do I have to buy the whole in tank unit from Ford, or is it
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