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80-96-list Digest Wed, 06 Dec 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 254

In This Issue:
Re: Intro and Question
Pinging
Re: Pinging
Re: LPG/Propane

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: b-khanson juno.com
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 19:28:38 -0600
Subject: Re: Intro and Question



>  From: "D. L. Young" <dlyoung san.rr.com>

>  My truck is an 88 F150 ext cab with the 5.0 engine
>  and AOD tranny.

>  I am having a bit of a pinging problem as well as a
>  strange shake when under load.

>  I've included a snip from a message from a few days
>  ago about the routing of the spark plug wires...I have
>  not heard of this problem causing pinging before.

The mis-routing of plug wires (typically adjacent cylinders
that are also adjacent in the firing order) will cause a "miss"
as the cylinders cross-fire (from inductance between the
parallel/adjacent wires), but shouldn't cause pinging.

>  I have taken it to the dealer and they found some
>  things wrong but fixing them didn't fix my problem.
>  They replaced the TPS, O2 sensor and a couple of
>  other emissions parts and added a spacer of some
>  kind on the throttle body. I had a vacuum leak that
>  they fixed as well. They said I needed a tune up so
>  I did that myself and replaced the plugs, wires, cap
>  and rotor.

>  One of my plugs (#2) the center electrode was
>  partially destroyed and the ceramic was a little
>  blistered. I asked a couple of people, including an
>  Autolite spark plug rep at the drag races in Pamona,
>  what would cause this to happen and they both
>  mentioned a lean mixture that was causing
> detonation. With the exception of maybe an intake
>  valve not opening properly the only thing we
>  could think of that would cause a lean mixture in
>  just one cylinder was a bad injector.

You could also have a gasket leak between either:
    the plenum (upper intake) and intake manifold
    or, the intake manifold and head.

>  I replaced that injector but it didn't fix it.

If you pulled the plenum (and replaced the
gasket) when you replaced the injector and
the problem remains the same, it would tend
to point toward the intake manifold/head
gasket...IF a vacuum leak is causing the problem.

>  I am aware that Ford put out a service bulletin
>  about the torque converters needing to be
>  drained on a service if there is a vibration
>  problem.

The reason for draining the converter is to
completely (as completely as possible) refresh
the fluid in the tranny.  Contaminated fluid can
cause a "shudder" when the converter locks up.
When it happens, it feels like you're driving over
rumble strips.

>  I may be taking it back to them to cut into the
>  system to visually inspect the cats and see if the
>  insides are plugged up.

It's not necessary to cut the exhaust system open
to check the cats.  A pressure guage can be
screwed into the O2 sensor bung to determine
if the system is creating too much back-pressure.
A clogged cat will cause a loss of power, but
usually not a vibration.

>  Things I haven't done yet is a compression check
>  and to check the base timing although I would've
>  thought the dealer would have checked that and
>  adjusted it when they were doing all the work to
>  it that they did.

Nope.  They told you it needed a tune-up, which
you declined, and setting the timing (if needed)
would have been done then.

First step, look for a vacuum leak into that #2
cylinder.

Bruce Hanson
Apple Valley, MN

------------------------------

From: "Sam Means" <smeans inetport.com>
Subject: Pinging
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 05:33:42 -0600


Pinging caused by incorrect spark plug routing is caused by "sympathetic"
cylinder firing of cylinders. The spark to one cylinder couples to an
adjacent plug wire causing that cylinder plug to fire at the same time. The
process also requires the erroneously fired cylinder to be at a certain
place in it's combustion cycle. I seem to remember it is the #'s 5 & 6 plug
wires that can't be routed close together.
I experienced a pinging problem with my Mercurey Grand Marquis last summer
(4.6L). Finally solved the problem by slowly squirting water into the air
intake after the engine was good and hot,and with the engine running in the
1500 to 2000 rpm range. I used a plastic dishsoap sqweeze bottle after
thoroughly washing all the soap from it. The water turns  to steam in the
cylinders and removes builtup carbon which will cause pinging. I believe I
used a couple of bottles of water over four or five minutes.
The shaking sounds as if a cylinder stops firing under heavy load, although
new plugs and wires should have solved that problem unless the coil is weak.
Sam Means


------------------------------

From: rexbennett eibiz.net
Subject: Re: Pinging
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:21:43 -0600


This is correct and also # 1 & 2 cylinders if I remember correctly.  This
will definitely cause pinging I have experienced this personally.  My 95
F150 with a 5.0L even has a warning sticker next to the emission sticker
that shows how they recommend routing the plug wires to prevent this
problem.  If memory serves me correctly this can also be a problem on FE
engines between # 7 & 8.

From your original post it sounds like you may other problems but there have
been many times over the last couple of years where people on this list have
solved persistent pinging problems by rerouting the plug wires.

Rex

-----Original Message-----
From: 80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Sam Means
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 5:34 AM
To: Ford Trucks
Subject: [80-96-list] Pinging



Pinging caused by incorrect spark plug routing is caused by "sympathetic"
cylinder firing of cylinders. The spark to one cylinder couples to an
adjacent plug wire causing that cylinder plug to fire at the same time. The
process also requires the erroneously fired cylinder to be at a certain
place in it's combustion cycle. I seem to remember it is the #'s 5 & 6 plug
wires that can't be routed close together.



------------------------------

Subject: LPG/Propane
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:04:04 -0000
From: "Conrad" <conrad conrad.uk.net>


Has anyone got any experience of a 1995 vintage 351W on dual fuel?

I am thinking about a conversion as UK fuel prics continue to get
higher.

Conrad

------------------------------

From: "les williams" <lesw cyber.net.au>
Subject: Re: LPG/Propane
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 06:52:57 +1100


Hi Conrad,

Hey Phred, That's our cue, ...

Presenting, by popular request, the return of the Young Nephew Phred & Old
Uncle Les with the Propane Burners' Show ... ;-))

Nephew Phred is running a dual fuelled '95 302 and I'm sure he will be only
too happy to tell you about it.
I am using a 351 Clevo, and will still argue against the dual fuel option,
and defend a mono Propane/LPG installation to the hilt. The only reservation
is the availability of Propane/LPG refills. I obviously have no idea of the
'propane scene' in the UK. Is the LPG readily available? At what cost in
relationship to ULP fuel ? Down here it is about 60% of ULP fuel. The
majority of 'Effies' would be on an LPG diet. Is it worth the trouble in
Oz ? Yes!! I have to admit, when you first posted to this forum and said
what you were driving and where you were from (UK) my immediate reaction was
'How much is this going to cost to re-fuel in the real world ?' ;-))

Rather than try and pre-empt the questions you may have, and I'd be
suprised if you didn't have many, how about you get a
written(?) quote for the conversion paying particular notice of the brand of
mixer & regulator you will supplied with. Don't just tell us 'it's an
Impco' or an 'Airod', we want numbers.
Post your results back here, and I'm sure one of us will tell
you if you are getting good value OR being 'taken for a ride' - The brand
of tanks are not quite so important, performance wise.


regards

Les, Still lost in the Land Of OZ (OZ-tralia)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Conrad" <conrad conrad.uk.net>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 7:04 AM
Subject: [80-96-list] LPG/Propane


>
> Has anyone got any experience of a 1995 vintage 351W on dual fuel?
>
> I am thinking about a conversion as UK fuel prics continue to get
> higher.
>
> Conrad
>
>






------------------------------

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