Received: with LISTAR (v0.129a; list 80-96-list); Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:48:53 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:48:53 -0500 (EST)
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Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #243
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80-96-list Digest Tue, 21 Nov 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 243

In This Issue:
parts sources
Re: Location of Knock Sensor
Re: Fuel mileage
Re: was newbie, now traction
Front spindle removal
Re: Front spindle removal
El Paso "Inventor"
Re: was newbie, now traction
Re: was newbie, now traction
1972 Pinto Paper from NASA
Engine Light
Re: Front spindle removal
Re: Fuel mileage
Re: Front spindle removal
Re: was newbie, now traction
Re: Front spindle removal
Spindle design inconsistency?
Re: Fuel mileage
PCV valve specifications

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Conrad" <conrad conrad.uk.net>
Subject: parts sources
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:55:53 -0000

Hello, me again.

I've just spent half the day trying to find UK companies that can get
the stuff I need for the van, but no-one knows a thing. I've not been
able to find and US website that say they has econoline stuff either.
Could anyone point me in the right direction for US companies that have
the following and will ship to the UK?

for a 1995 E-150:

spare ty(i)re bracket for the rear door, also nice cover.
aux battery tray
ally ladder
some kind of roof rack to fit the fibreglass high roof

also, if possible I want to mount more big batteries, a second fuel tank
and a water tank where the spare is now (under the rear) - is there kit
available for this or will I need to fabricate it?

thanks,

Conrad

------------------------------

From: rexbennett eibiz.net
Subject: Re: Location of Knock Sensor
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:08:41 -0600

I can't remember for sure but it seems like the knock sensor on the 87 I had
with the 4.9L was located on the side of the block, forward of the
distributor and coil.

Maybe someone else can be more specific.

Rex

-----Original Message-----
From: 80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:80-96-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of David Anderson
(EUS)
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 10:57 AM
To: '80 Ford Truck'
Subject: [80-96-list] Location of Knock Sensor


Can someone tell me where the knock sensor is on a '90 F150, 4.9L six?
Haynes book suggests it's screwed into one of the manifolds but I can't find
it.  I've got a bad pinging problem.  I will be checking timing first but a
quick check the other night told me it's close.  I could not read the timing
scale well in the dark.

Thanks,
David Anderson


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------------------------------

From: Brazzadog aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:16:17 EST
Subject: Re: Fuel mileage

If I understand this theory correctly, a fuel system on the verge of vapor
lock should achieve significantly greater mileage.  I once made a 4 hour trip
teetering on the edge of vapor lock the whole way.  Too bad I was too busy
trying to keep the motor running to notice what kind of mileage I was
getting.  Normally I get 10 mpg so if I'd gotten 15 or 20 mpg, I like to
think I would have noticed.  It's honestly not something I have any desire to
repeat, even in the interest of science.

Ben Williams
'71 Wagoneer
'78 F-250 4x4
'88 Bronco

>  Bruce; I was very happy and not suprised to see so many other inventors
>  who have had reached                  the same conclusion: The internal
>  combustion engine is capable of 2-5 times better fuel

------------------------------

From: Chris Hedemark <hedemark bops.com>
Subject: Re: was newbie, now traction
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:40:26 -0500

BF Goodrich AT's are really quiet.  MT's do sing some on the highway.  But I
never notice it between my exhaust and my stereo.  :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Conrad [mailto:conrad conrad.uk.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:50 AM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: was newbie, now traction


Chris,

> Save yourself some money.  Get either the Powertrax Lock Right or the
> Detroit EZ-Locker.  I have the latter but the two are

ok, well I've studied these two now, and I must say I'm not yet
convinced. I'm after as close to limo ride quailty as I can get, and the
no-slip does seem to be worth the extra money according to the reviews
and the powertrax pdf. However, I think I'll put a lock-right in my
jeep.

> Never heard of Scorpion S/T's.  Sorry.  I've had great

pirelli. the van has scorpion A/S on the front and Sanden somethings on
the rear - they look terrible. I spotted the spare is an unused
wrangler, but I agree MTs or ATs are probably the best bet. What are
they like noise wise at 70-80 mph (bearing in mind above limo thing)?

Conrad
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------------------------------

From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
Subject: Front spindle removal
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:20:35 -0700

Greetings,

I'm trying to get the right front spindle off the steering knuckle and it's
proving most resistant to my efforts.

Can anyone suggest how to perform the separation?  I don't want to wreck the
ball joints or heat the thing to the point of destroying the temper.

I tried hitting it with a mallet and also jacking the spindle up with the
nuts off the studs (using a thick piece of plastic for padding).  The
jacking just lifted up the spindle.

Does anyone have any ideas how to get this thing off?  I'm thinking of
pounding the studs out one by one or holding the axle down with a chain
attached to the jack while jacking.

Thanks in advance,
Chip

------------------------------

From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
Subject: Re: Front spindle removal
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:11:27 -0700

Sorry, I forgot to mention that it's on a 1980 F-250 4x4.
Chip

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Atkinson, Chip [mailto:CAtkinson circadence.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:21 AM
> To: '80-96-list ford-trucks.com'
> Subject: [80-96-list] Front spindle removal
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm trying to get the right front spindle off the steering
> knuckle and it's
> proving most resistant to my efforts.
>
> Can anyone suggest how to perform the separation?  I don't
> want to wreck the
> ball joints or heat the thing to the point of destroying the temper.
>
> I tried hitting it with a mallet and also jacking the spindle
> up with the
> nuts off the studs (using a thick piece of plastic for padding).  The
> jacking just lifted up the spindle.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas how to get this thing off?  I'm thinking of
> pounding the studs out one by one or holding the axle down
> with a chain
> attached to the jack while jacking.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Chip
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>

------------------------------

From: Fred Moreno <fmoreno dualcurve.com>
Subject: El Paso "Inventor"
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:16:39 -0700

Well Sam is correct that there was a guy labeled as an
inventor from El Paso in the mid 70's that claim to have a 140mpg
carburetor. This wonder device was installed on a huge T-Bird with a 428
CobraJet.

This inventor was Tom Ogle (sp?). He and his very limited
formal education noticed while working on his mother's lawn mower, that if
the fuel & air were warmed up , it would idle a lot longer. That's when the
light bulb went off (15 Watter from what I gather).
This little incident led to Mr. Ogle conjuring up some
device to preheat gasoline. He managed to convince people in a test drive
from El Paso to Deming NM and with some of the University of Texas
non-science professors as witness that he had latched on to something. From
what I'm told, there never was a chase vehicle and for one  reason or
another he returned 4 hours later than scheduled due to mechanical problems
he encountered. Yet he stuck to his claim that he had this high mileage
carburetor and it worked.
Anyways he manage to get some positive media attention
since those were the days of the Arab embargos, long gas lines and everyone
was desperate for a solution.
Apple orchard owners from Washington state read of Mr.
Ogle's "accomplishments", became interested and decided to invested in Mr.
Ogle's company, Ogle Entreprise (?). The Washington state based investors
were a company called Air Sensors. The company had stock put out and Ogle
retained a majority holder of stock.
Long story made short, Mr. Ogle still had a major problem
because stock holders were wanting a product from his now well funded R&D
center in El Paso TX and he had none. Lawyers from the stock holders and the
SEC were sniffing around him.
In a moment of desperation he opted to convince the
Washington based stock holders to buy out his shares. They in turn, manage
to create with much outside assistance a fuel injection system that really
did work and offer it to the market still under the Air Sensor name. This is
happening in the late 70's. Holley cut into their sales/profit when Holley
came out with their own version of a fuel injection system called the
Pro-jection and I guess they needed to diversify.

Any of you guys in the propane side of the fence, the name
Air Sensors should ring a bell. It's now known as IMPCO.
Air Sensors (the apple bunch gang) bought out Herb Hill's
and Don Bass's share of IMPCO stock.
Herb Hill and Don Bass ended up leaving IMPCO and forming
their own company called OHG, an acronym for "Over the Hill Gang". No joke.
Autotronics used to build the controller for this Holley
system years back, I personally did my fair share of QC'ing and
troubleshooting on those things. Unfortunately for us, in order to lower
their costs Holley ended up having them built overseas.
Mr Ogle sort of went off and did things his way since he
had been bought out and now had some money in his pocket. From what I
understand, he knew how to have a good time and ended up spending lots of
the money in the local taverns, some of questionable reputations. In the
early 80's he died after being stabbed in a bar-room brawl.
How did Tom Ogle manage to drive from El Paso Tx to Deming
NM, roughly 200 miles round trip, and back and consume little over 1 gallon
from his gasoline tank? Some say he borrowed a trick from Smokey Yunick,
very very large inner-diameter fuel lines. Lots of conspiracy theories
surround this guy.

Well Sam, what started out as an inquiry, developed into a
very interesting story from various MSD guru's around here. Thanks, it was
fun, don't know how productive I was today for the company, but I enjoyed
it. Hope I did not offend anyone, if so I apologize. Please note this was
written in hast so excuse the typos and poor grammar.

Phred
El Paso employed and owner of a 1995 4X4 F150, 302, 5 speed
with 13-17 mpg.


------------------------------

From: FLR150 aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:31:15 EST
Subject: Re: was newbie, now traction


In a message dated 11/21/2000 1:41:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hedemark bops.com writes:


> .  But I
> never notice it between my exhaust and my stereo.  :-)
>
>


LOL...A man after my own heart!!!!
I was asked yesterday if my loud performance exhaust was annoying while I
was on the highway. I laughed and told him, Well...If I COULD hear it over
the stereo or my fiancee' griping at me to slow down, then would probably be
slightly soothing.

Better to be a racer for a moment, than a spectator for a lifetime
Later,
Wayne Foy
94 Flareside SC
NLOC #484
2000 #4 Top Truck
1999 #2 Top Truck
Atlanta GA
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/flr150/index.html
ICQ#58060858



------------------------------

From: Chris Hedemark <hedemark bops.com>
Subject: Re: was newbie, now traction
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:34:15 -0500

I like the rumble of a performance exhaust.  In fact, it is the biggest
reason my fuel economy is in the toilet.  If I were to get rid of my cat,
I'd be driving around in the wrong gear all the time just to listen to the
sweet music of an de-catted Flowmaster.  :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: FLR150 aol.com [mailto:FLR150 aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 4:31 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: was newbie, now traction



In a message dated 11/21/2000 1:41:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hedemark bops.com writes:


> .  But I
> never notice it between my exhaust and my stereo.  :-)
>
>


LOL...A man after my own heart!!!!
I was asked yesterday if my loud performance exhaust was annoying while I
was on the highway. I laughed and told him, Well...If I COULD hear it over
the stereo or my fiancee' griping at me to slow down, then would probably be

slightly soothing.

Better to be a racer for a moment, than a spectator for a lifetime
Later,
Wayne Foy
94 Flareside SC
NLOC #484
2000 #4 Top Truck
1999 #2 Top Truck
Atlanta GA
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.aol.com/flr150/index.html
ICQ#58060858


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------------------------------

From: Fred Moreno <fmoreno dualcurve.com>
Subject: 1972 Pinto Paper from NASA
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:42:16 -0700

Forgot to mention that during my little research various persons mentioned
that NASA had written a paper on all the forces involved in moving a 1972
Pinto down the road.
It calculated the force required to over come the air resistance, tire
friction, transmission and engine losses, etc...In conclusion NASA came out
with the expected Pinto mileage.
Don't have internet access here at work otherwise I'd look and make it
available.

Phred


------------------------------

From: "Nelson Vasconcelos" <NelsonV mediaone.net>
Subject: Engine Light
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:50:20 -0500

Hey Guys,

On the dash of my truck thier's the yellow CHECK ENGINE light and right next
to it their's a red ENGINE light. I was just wondering what that red engine
light is for. Lately it's been coming on when you turn the key and then goes
away when the engine starts up. I know the yellow check engine light is for
the trouble/codes from the PCM, but what's this other one for???

Thanks

Nelson
89 F150 4x4, 300 L6, 5spd
3" body & 4" suspension lift, 33" BFG AT's


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:58:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Lane <Lanero excite.com>
Subject: Re: Front spindle removal

When Iremoved the spindle from my 89 F250 4X4, I used a block of wood and a
BFH.  I would alternate thumping on different sides (to try and work it back
and forth).  It did eventually came off.  After about 30 minutes of beating
on it.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:11:27 -0700, 80-96-list ford-trucks.com wrote:

>  Sorry, I forgot to mention that it's on a 1980 F-250 4x4.
>  Chip
>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: Atkinson, Chip [mailto:CAtkinson circadence.com]
>  > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:21 AM
>  > To: '80-96-list ford-trucks.com'
>  > Subject: [80-96-list] Front spindle removal
>  >
>  >
>  > Greetings,
>  >
>  > I'm trying to get the right front spindle off the steering
>  > knuckle and it's
>  > proving most resistant to my efforts.
>  >
>  > Can anyone suggest how to perform the separation?  I don't
>  > want to wreck the
>  > ball joints or heat the thing to the point of destroying the temper.
>  >
>  > I tried hitting it with a mallet and also jacking the spindle
>  > up with the
>  > nuts off the studs (using a thick piece of plastic for padding).  The
>  > jacking just lifted up the spindle.
>  >
>  > Does anyone have any ideas how to get this thing off?  I'm thinking of
>  > pounding the studs out one by one or holding the axle down
>  > with a chain
>  > attached to the jack while jacking.
>  >
>  > Thanks in advance,
>  > Chip
>  > =============================================================
>  > To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>  > Please remove this footer when replying.
>  >
>  =============================================================
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>  Please remove this footer when replying.
>


"Accomplishing the impossible only means the boss will add it to your
regular duties."





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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 20:35:04 +1100
From: les williams <lesw cyber.net.au>
Subject: Re: Fuel mileage


Andrew Abrams wrote:
>
> A big, but gentle snip ...
>
> While the thought of a carburetor that gives us 55 mph is attractive, there
> are laws of thermodynamics that just will not let it happen.  To increase
> fuel mileage one must reduce the amount of HP required to move the beast
> along by; reducing the amount of air the front must displace, reducing the
> amount of air drag from sides/beds/undercarriage/etc., reduce rolling
> friction, reduce driveline friction, and drive slower.
>


Like I said before, you have just taken out all of the FUN ... :-)

But since the subject of economy had been raised, I have a question.
Where would you put the money ?
on an overdrive unit for a C6 auto,
OR go with a supercharger ? This option needs some lateral thinking but
sounds like FUN ...


regards

Les, still lost in the land of OZ ...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:00:04 -0500
From: Martin Horne <flatspin optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Front spindle removal


It's a lot of work, but eventually I resorted to re-assembling the hub and
wheel back onto the spindle with the spindle nuts removed and then kicking the
cr#p out of the wheel. The added mass and leverage  of the wheel seemed to help
in breaking it loose, and I figured it would not be able to damage the outside
of the spindle.

HTH




At 11:20 AM 11/21/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I'm trying to get the right front spindle off the steering knuckle and it's
>proving most resistant to my efforts.
>
>Can anyone suggest how to perform the separation?  I don't want to wreck the
>ball joints or heat the thing to the point of destroying the temper.
>
>I tried hitting it with a mallet and also jacking the spindle up with the
>nuts off the studs (using a thick piece of plastic for padding).  The
>jacking just lifted up the spindle.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas how to get this thing off?  I'm thinking of
>pounding the studs out one by one or holding the axle down with a chain
>attached to the jack while jacking.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Chip
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.
>



M.

<mailto:FlatSpin Optonline.Net>FlatSpin Optonline.Net


------------------------------

From: "Conrad" <conrad conrad.uk.net>
Subject: Re: was newbie, now traction
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:24:17 -0000

> mud tires.  My hands down favorites for mixture of street and
> mud would have
> to be BF Goodrich Radial Mud Terrain.  I'm wearing down the
> Bronco tires as
> fast as I can to justify getting a set of 33" MT's (33x9.50
> which is as big
> as I can stuff in there without a lift or cutting).

Just been looking at tire options. My stock size is 255/70x15 (about 29
inch), but most interesting stuff only seems to come in 255/75x15 (about
30 inch). Am I likely to have a problem fitting these larger tires to
the van? - the oversize tires on my jeep rub a bit, which I dont want on
the van. The extra 1/2 inch clearance might be handy at some point
anyway.

Conrad

------------------------------

From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
Subject: Re: Front spindle removal
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:44:55 -0700

Thanks for the suggestions.  I did get it off.  I used a piece of scrap
delrin and a bigger hammer.  It eventually came off.  One thing to note (for
archive searchers) is that one will have better luck if, once a small
separation is created on one side, that a piece of metal such as an old
screwdriver is put in the crack.  This will keep you from banging the
spindle back and forth without getting it any farther off the bolts.   I
discovered this on the easy (left) side.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Lane [mailto:Lanero excite.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 1:59 PM
> To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Front spindle removal
>
>
> When Iremoved the spindle from my 89 F250 4X4, I used a block
> of wood and a
> BFH.  I would alternate thumping on different sides (to try
> and work it back
> and forth).  It did eventually came off.  After about 30
> minutes of beating
> on it.
>
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:11:27 -0700, 80-96-list ford-trucks.com wrote:
>
> >  Sorry, I forgot to mention that it's on a 1980 F-250 4x4.
> >  Chip
> >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: Atkinson, Chip [mailto:CAtkinson circadence.com]
> >  > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:21 AM
> >  > To: '80-96-list ford-trucks.com'
> >  > Subject: [80-96-list] Front spindle removal
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Greetings,
> >  >
> >  > I'm trying to get the right front spindle off the steering
> >  > knuckle and it's
> >  > proving most resistant to my efforts.
> >  >
> >  > Can anyone suggest how to perform the separation?  I don't
> >  > want to wreck the
> >  > ball joints or heat the thing to the point of destroying
> the temper.
> >  >
> >  > I tried hitting it with a mallet and also jacking the spindle
> >  > up with the
> >  > nuts off the studs (using a thick piece of plastic for
> padding).  The
> >  > jacking just lifted up the spindle.
> >  >
> >  > Does anyone have any ideas how to get this thing off?
> I'm thinking of
> >  > pounding the studs out one by one or holding the axle down
> >  > with a chain
> >  > attached to the jack while jacking.
> >  >
> >  > Thanks in advance,
> >  > Chip
> >  > =============================================================
> >  > To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> >  > Please remove this footer when replying.
> >  >
> >  =============================================================
> >  To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> >  Please remove this footer when replying.
> >
>
>
> "Accomplishing the impossible only means the boss will add it to your
> regular duties."
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Tired of slow Internet? Get Home Broadband Internet
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
>
> =============================================================
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> Please remove this footer when replying.
>

------------------------------

From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
Subject: Spindle design inconsistency?
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:52:48 -0700

Ok, I got the spindle off last night, but after thinking about it, its
design seems rather inconsistent -- there are only 5 studs holding the
spindle to the steering knuckle, yet there are 8 beefy lug bolts holding the
wheel to the hub.

This doesn't seem to make sense from a strength standpoint.  Why have lugs
that are twice the strength of the bolts holding on the spindle?  It's not
like the lugs aren't sprung weight and the spindle bolts are, nor is it
purely a matter of engine power, as I don't think the engine in my F-250 is
more powerful than that in the F-150's with 5 lug nuts.

Any thoughts?

Chip

------------------------------

From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel mileage
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:58:06 -0700

Aren't overdrives and superchargers almost opposites in terms of fuel
economy?
If you're looking for ways to increase your mpg, I'd look at getting an
econo-box or small 2x4 truck for driving around.  Then you don't have to
worry about the mileage on your bigger vehicle.  This then justifies putting
the supercharger on the big truck....
>
>
>  Like I said before, you have just taken out all of the FUN ... :-)
>
> But since the subject of economy had been raised, I have a question.
> Where would you put the money ?
> on an overdrive unit for a C6 auto,
> OR go with a supercharger ? This option needs some lateral
> thinking but
> sounds like FUN ...
>
>
> regards

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:34:52 -0600
From: Jim Cannon <jcannon SoftHome.net>
Subject: PCV valve specifications

Has anyone found a good information resource on the web anywhere to look up
PCV valve specifications?  I assume they are designed to draw a specific
amount of air through them at a certain vacuum level. Where can I find that
good stuff??

The stock valve in my old 1980 F-150 is not keeping up with the blowby. I'd ....


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