Received: with LISTAR (v0.129a; list 80-96-list); Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:17:46 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:17:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server <listar ford-trucks.com>
To: 80-96-list digest users <listar ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #208
Precedence: list

==========================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts 80-96 Truck  Mailing  List

Visit our  web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com

To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 80-96-list" in the subject  of  the
message.
==========================================================

------------------------------------
80-96-list Digest Mon, 02 Oct 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 208

In This Issue:
Re: Sqeaking/screaching brakes!!!
Re: Sqeaking/screaching brakes!!!
Australian LPG Milage question
black smoke
Re: Sqeaking/screaching brakes!!!
archive?
Instrumentation Lights
Re: Australian LPG Milage question
Catalytic Converter
Re: Catalytic Converter
CAB TO FRAME BOLTS
Re: CAB TO FRAME BOLTS
looking for the BBK website...
Propane Power.
Re: archive?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephen Hansen" <shansen ndak.net>
Subject: Re: Sqeaking/screaching brakes!!!
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:11:04 -0500


The one thing not mentioned is to TURN THE ROTORS on a lathe! old rotors can build up a "glaze" on them causing the squeal. I figure two sets of pads then I buy new rotors. My brakes are the most important thing on the truck.. do them right.

Stephen Hansen
1992 F250
1950 F-1
2000 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/shansenw/



------------------------------

From: FULSZBRONC aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:34:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Sqeaking/screaching brakes!!!

Hi Phred,
 You hit on one of my pet-peeves: Squealing Brakes!!  I've done a lot of
real-world testing on brake pad materials and rotors  (the people who depend
on me (and their brakes) want to be able to sneak up on motorists w/o
announcing themselves).  That being said, any pad that doesn't have a
silencer shim on the back is probably not a premium pad, and I recommend only
premium pads.  ( EIS & Raybestos have rated the best with me for silence,
long life and good braking power when hot)

 All the blue-goo in the world won't hold up to the heat that the brakes
produce.  To see of the noise is being produced by the movement of the pads
against the caliper or piston, just remove a pad and see it there's a shiny
spot on the back of it.

 If there are 90 degree tabs on the out-board pad, bend them slightly to
make them fit VERY SNUG on the caliper.  If the noise is not coming from a
loose pad (it only takes .001 movement to produce a squeak), then try a
product from BG that you apply to the friction material (I can't remember the
exact name of the product, but a BG dealer should know what it is, or I can
grab a bottle up at work, read it, and get back to you).

 Loose/worn wheel bearings will produce a light squeak when the brakes and
not applied and the wheel is turned a little to the left or right but goes
away when the pedal is pushed.  (doesn't sound like your complaint)

Sorry for being so wordy, but I can go on for pages and pages about brakes.
Brake reps will give me new rotors and 2 sets of their pads to run on our
Crown Vics, and in less than 6 months I can tell them how many miles they
lasted and how much wear they put on the rotors.... on the trucks it takes a
little longer, but the results are comparable.

 Oh yea, and don't for get to lube the slides with silicone grease (not EP
or  anti-seize or anything else)

Happy motoring from us folks in Snow Tire Country,
Alex


------------------------------

From: "John Watson" <johnw illawarramercury.com>
Subject: Australian LPG Milage question
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:21:03 +1000

Can anyone give me some figures on mileage and vehicle specs for people
running LPG.
I am specifically interested in 351 Clevelands and Bronco / F100 F150's


Thanks


John


------------------------------

From: "Cyber 9" <raven369 lmtonline.com>
Subject: black smoke
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:10:48 -0500


Hello yea i have a 1990 F150,302,4x2 truck bought it brand new in 90. ive noticed that when at idle or waiting for my order at the drive in i the idle drops a bit and i see some black smoke threw my dual exhaust pipes, i put her in park and apply the gas a bit it goes away only happes while iam idle, has anyone every had a similer problem, engine sounds smooth. What sensor could be the problem i changed the oxygen,EGR,and coolent sensor last month.


------------------------------

From: b-khanson juno.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:58:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Sqeaking/screaching brakes!!!


> From: "Mike Persell" <persell home.com>
> Subject: Re: Sqeaking/screaching brakes!!!

> I had the same problem until I changed my source of brake pads.
> I now use either a Ford factory PREMIUM or the Bendix brand pads.

> These are not cheap but they're quiet, they stop well and they
> don't screw up the rotors.

> Mike


I couldn't agree more !!!

During the  6  1/2  years I worked in the Service
Department of a large Ford dealer, saw LOTS of
cases of squeaky brakes fixed by simply going to
the appropriate factory pad.

Have also had the very best pad performance on
a Honda I own (Honda's are notorious for pad
noise/poor wear on anything but factory pads)
with premium Bendix pads.  Learned from a tech
at the Ford store (he'd taken an advanced brake
technology course) that Bendix heat cures their
pads (which most other manufacturers apparently
don't) which increases their quality/performance.

Bruce Hanson
Apple Valley, MN

------------------------------

From: johnhfleming juno.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:44:00 -0700
Subject: archive?

Is there a searchable archive of past digests for this group? And where
is it?

TIA

John

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:58:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Rozell <prozell yahoo.com>
Subject: Instrumentation Lights


Does anyone on the list have in their posession a schematic for a 96 F150. My lights for the
climate control center do not work. The rest of the instrumentation lighting works just fine. I
was hoping someone could tell me what wire supplies voltage to the lights. I have checked the
light bulbs and they are still good. any help would be highly appreciated, as I am tired of
turning on the overhead light to adjust the climate control knobs at night.


TIA,
Paul Rozell
96 F150 SC 5.0

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://photos.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 06:21:54 +1000
From: les williams <lesw cyber.net.au>
Subject: Re: Australian LPG Milage question


Hi John

Hmmm, The price of LPG V's Petrol is getting to you ??
A dollar a litre for petrol is no joke anymore ... :-))

Exactly what sort of figures are you looking for ? As a quick & rough
guide, add 10-15% to the petrol figures. Exactly what sort of LPG system
are you interested in, dual fuel or LPG Only. Do you still want the
truck to perform or will a spud fitting do ?? Exactly what sort of truck
is the install going into ? The availability and the placement of LPG
Tanks is many and varied. What is the current health state of the engine
? How long do you plan to keep the truck ?

Just to give you some idea of costs, a very basic system, (read: using
cheap parts) will set you back about $1200 to $1500 au$, and a single
LPG fuel tank system, using an M&M mixer (OHG - thank you Phred) around
$2500 au$. Extra tanks new, around $900 - $1000 and must be pressure
tested every 10 years. This is important fact is vital if someone offers
you a second hand tank, at a good price, check the date stamp, and allow
for the testing charge.
My installation on an F100 LWB to-day would run out at about $3500 au$ -
that includes 2 X 100 Ltr LPG Tanks.
If the money we are talking here hasn't scared you off, and I hope not,
I'm quite happy to answer any questions generated from the above. Phred
and/or Chris may be kind enough to add a comment or two ... This quite a
big subject and as you probably already have found out, there is not
much factual user information on the web.

Spam Police please note: I do not sell/fit/service any of the above
equipment or do I get a kickback from M&M. ( I should !!)

Late breaking news:
Just received your e-mail direct to me, now working on an updated answer
...


regards

Les
Lost in the Land of OZ






John Watson wrote:
>
> Can anyone give me some figures on mileage and vehicle specs for people
> running LPG.
> I am specifically interested in 351 Clevelands and Bronco / F100 F150's
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>

------------------------------

From: Craig.Wallace emotors.com
Subject: Catalytic Converter
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:55:41 -0500

Hey all.

I posted a message the other day regarding engine shimmy (during
acceleration) and have come to the conclusion that it must be related to the
oxygen sensor and catalytic converters.  I definitely have loss of power
(especially after the engine has warmed up) and I've noticed more than
typical fuel consumption.  I have replaced the plugs, wires, distributor,
and rotor.  All of which were needing replaced, but none that made any
difference.  I have checked the air and PCV filters, both were very clean.
I have checked the PCV valve.  No restrictions there.  I am getting a new
oxygen sensor tonight and replacing it.  This has only been happening for
about two weeks, but I am concerned that one or both of the catalytic
converters may have been affected.  Other than basically banging on them to
see if any porcelain is broken up, is there another way to check if they've
been damaged?  I am trying to replace all components that would be related
to loss of power and fuel consumption, but am very nervous due to the cost
of replacing the converters.  I don't want to have them replaced if it's not
necessary and, quite honestly, I don't trust the local muffler shops.  Any
ideas?  Anybody have any experience with having your converters checked at a
local shop and get good, honest advice?  I'm sure there is no typical
"time-to-fail" limit once an oxygen sensor has gone bad (if this is the
case) before a converter is affected due to the wide range of variables
associated.  But can I be relatively assured that the converters are fine?
Could there be anything else related to loss of power and excessive fuel
consumption that I've missed?

Thanks,
Craig Wallace
'94 F150 300 I-6
Brighton, Il

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:43:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derek Whiteside <derekw rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter

Is your check engine light on? When my O2 sensor went bad, the check
engine light came on. If not, maybe there's no point in replacing it?

(btw, my truck is a 92 f150 with 300 I-6)

best regards,

Derek Whiteside
--- Craig.Wallace emotors.com wrote:
> Hey all.
>
> I posted a message the other day regarding engine shimmy (during
> acceleration) and have come to the conclusion that it must be related
> to the
> oxygen sensor and catalytic converters.  I definitely have loss of
> power
> (especially after the engine has warmed up) and I've noticed more
> than
> typical fuel consumption.  I have replaced the plugs, wires,
> distributor,
> and rotor.  All of which were needing replaced, but none that made
> any
> difference.  I have checked the air and PCV filters, both were very
> clean.
> I have checked the PCV valve.  No restrictions there.  I am getting a
> new
> oxygen sensor tonight and replacing it.  This has only been happening
> for
> about two weeks, but I am concerned that one or both of the catalytic
> converters may have been affected.  Other than basically banging on
> them to
> see if any porcelain is broken up, is there another way to check if
> they've
> been damaged?  I am trying to replace all components that would be
> related
> to loss of power and fuel consumption, but am very nervous due to the
> cost
> of replacing the converters.  I don't want to have them replaced if
> it's not
> necessary and, quite honestly, I don't trust the local muffler shops.
>  Any
> ideas?  Anybody have any experience with having your converters
> checked at a
> local shop and get good, honest advice?  I'm sure there is no typical
> "time-to-fail" limit once an oxygen sensor has gone bad (if this is
> the
> case) before a converter is affected due to the wide range of
> variables
> associated.  But can I be relatively assured that the converters are
> fine?
> Could there be anything else related to loss of power and excessive
> fuel
> consumption that I've missed?
>
> Thanks,
> Craig Wallace
> '94 F150 300 I-6
> Brighton, Il
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://photos.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Rozell <prozell yahoo.com>
Subject: CAB TO FRAME BOLTS


Hi all,
I am wanting to know the easiest way to reach the top (read cab) side of the body mount bolts on
my 96 F150. My 65 F100 has a inspection plate that can be removed to allow access to the bolts
does any one have any experience with these.

TIA.
Paul Rozell

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://photos.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: Nite4x aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:42:51 EDT
Subject: Re: CAB TO FRAME BOLTS

In a message dated 10/3/00 04:19:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
prozell yahoo.com writes:

<<
Hi all,
I am wanting to know the easiest way to reach the top (read cab) side of the
body mount bolts on
my 96 F150. My 65 F100 has a inspection plate that can be removed to allow
access to the bolts
does any one have any experience with these.

TIA.
Paul Rozel >>
there is a rubber/plastic cover over them, you will see them after you pull
up the rug...

Joe
92 F150

------------------------------

From: Nite4x aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:49:34 EDT
Subject: looking for the BBK website...

anyone have this addy?

Joe
92 F150

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:35:34 +1000
From: les williams <lesw cyber.net.au>
Subject: Propane Power.


Hi John,

I have sent this via the ford list, because there are others on the list
with some LPG experience and I'm sure will let me know if I may be
leading you astray. ;-))
Ok now we can get down to more specifics.

The real world economy of LPG varies as wildly as it can with petrol on
any V8, the saving grace is that it costs half the price of petrol,
unfortunately, I am not a shining example of economical driving
practices. :-)) The best guide I can give you is Parramatta to Foster,
as quick as possible, used 100 ltrs, the return trip, not exceeding
100kph, about 66 ltrs. My Effie weighs in at 2.97 tonne.
An '81 Cleveland on gas is no problem, I would strongly recommend a mono
LPG installation. By going LPG, anything to do with petrol can be
removed, including smog equipment, charcoal canisters etc. There will be
nothing to plug them into. Any future mods to the engine can be
optimized for LPG. This is another big subject, but not for now.
My preference for M&M (OHG) mixers v's Impco is the simplicity of the
M&M and no diaphragms to split or leak. The best comparison I can make
is the SU carby's vs the Stromberg cd150's, both look similar both work
the same way but one uses a rubber diaphragm, prone to rupture, and the
other doesn't. I'd use the SU any day. I think nephew Phred should be
the one to add comments in this direction. The M&M is a performance
orientated product.
So when the Holley gets the flick, you will need the mixer, an adapter
to the throttle body, a throttle body and a blanking adapter to close of
the egr etc. Depending on the hood clearance a stock air cleaner should
fit O.K. If the engine vaccum is very good at cranking speed, a cold
start control may not be needed, My Effie doesn't need one, but the
Fairlane did. The big problem here is installing correctly, NO vacuum
leaks, and the PCV is correctly installed. THIS IS IMPORTANT. If the
engine 'floods' on a cold start, yes it is possible to flood a gas
fuelled engine, and it backfires, the resulting sump explosion will
double or even triple the engine oil capacity !!! seen it done, not
recommended.
The condition of the engine, or more importantly the valves, if they are
worn, LPG wont help to restore them. The good news is, there are plenty
of people doing hardened seat replacements for ULPetrol, and that's
exactly what we need.
The next problem area and I hope Phred concurs with me here, is the
subject of electrical fittings. The installer is not fitting a stereo or
driving lights, where  failure is just an inconvenience. Even in an LPG
only install, when you turn the ignition key, numerous relays and
solenoid valves are activated in the engine bay and back at the tank.
Look for an installer that uses 'quality fittings' and knows how to fit
them.
There is a number of don'ts installing the tank(s) and the plumbing,
mainly concerning the clearance of exhaust systems, and of course ground
clearance.

Because this is custom work, the real important thing to consider is to
pick an installer you feel comfortable talking to and is prepared to
spend a little time explaining what you get for your money. IF you pick
the installer on a cheap price only, be warned now, going to a different
installer to try and rectify problems is not an option, he may be the
only person importing that line of equipment, and no one else has or can
get parts, especially when it gets to $10 ring mixers etc - the M&M
costs around $400. Performance isn't cheap.

The other 2 important points is to have a *very good* ignition system,
and the cooling system. The regulator needs coolant water to prevent it
from freezing ... I'll leave Phred to explain the theory & practice of
ignition requirements ...
Bronco's, because of the short body length, the tank is usually a Very
Big Tank behind the front seats, in the cargo area. There may be other
options. A.P.A tanks do have a web site, but the last time I looked, it
was mainly aimed at the trade.

You comment on the poor(?) LPG economy of the Commodore (for the US
members, a locally produced compact Chebby ) is exactly the opposite to
what I had been told. It doesn't use enough LPG to justify its fitment.
I could be horribly wrong here, but maybe it's because the LPG is
computer controlled between petrol & LPG use. The switch over point is
about 2800 rpm. Even with my big foot, it would be possible to drive
around town and not exceed 3000 rpm The problem as I understood it is
the petrol to gas usage is not good. Answer ? Drive Faster !! ;-))

The current economy you are getting, Hmmm, Well, err, at the risk of
offending you, I have to agree with your dyno shop. When you made the
requests for help over the holley and economy, I had nothing to add, so
said nothing. I have a GT falcon that needs 165 litres (36 Imp Gallons)
to do the same milage. Please bear in mind, we are driving around in
vehicles that display all the aerodynamics of a Brick Sh*thouse. - and
if you count the concrete slab, nearly as heavy.

Your probably wondering who the hell is Nephew Phred, I keep referring
to, - Phred is involved in the Alternative Fuels division of MSD
Ignitions, What he doesn't know about the theory and practice of Propane
usage and how to mix it and ignite it, isn't worth knowing - and he
drives a dual fuel F150, in the US of A. I'll convince him one day, to
step over from the 'Dark Side' and ditch the petrol.;-))

I hope this helps and if you have any more questions, I'd be suprised if
you didn't, feel free to ask.


Regards

Les
Lost in the Land of OZ





John Watson wrote:
>
> Les,
>
>
>
> I'mn looking into converting my '81 351 C Auto Bronco to gas.
>
> I had a couple of questions:
>
> What are the real, around town MPG figures for gas trucks.
> I have heard you can get equal top end power and increase low end torque
> from gas over petrol, what setups / mixers etc are needed.
> What should I look out for in a gas conversion (potential snags) , any brand
> equipment to reccomend ??
> I have heard varying comments, such as a late model commodore uses twice as
> much gas as petrol and therefore there are not really any savings.
> I was thinking of switching to straight gas, can you get a gas tank the size
> to swap out the petrol take.
> What distance can you get out of what size tank ??
>
> I only get 350 - 420 odd km to my 100-120 litre tank now, the local dyno
> shop seemed to think it was acceptable, I think not.
>
> Do you know of any good sites with info on LPG conversion.
>
> Any info would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> John Watson
> '81 Bronco XLT 351C C6 Auto with a 600 Holley peice of crap.
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:13:08 -0400
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: archive?

At 11:44 AM 10/3/00, you wrote:
>Is there a searchable archive of past digests for this group? And where ....


To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts

Registration is free, easy and gives you access to more features.
If you are not registered, click here to register.
If you are already registered, you can login here.

If you are already logged in and are seeing this message, your web browser is blocking session cookies. Change your browser cookie settings to allow session cookies.




Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Policy - Jobs

This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.