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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 21:34:58 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: 80-96-list Digest V2000 #186
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------------------------------------
80-96-list Digest Tue, 05 Sep 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 186

In This Issue:
Re: Rear axle seals
Re: Rear axle seals
Re: Fuel in F150
ADMIN: TDR consulting
Re: water injection
Re: Rear axle seals
Re: Oil Leak
Auto Trans Cooler lines
Re: Auto Trans Cooler lines
Re: Rear axle seals
Drive shaft balance
ADMIN: Pictorial update
clattering 300 at startup?
Re: fuel pump relay
Re: water injection

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mark Mcknight" <chicken521 hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rear axle seals
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 02:15:00 GMT

The problem with your rear axle is more than likely the seal  just as you
thought.  Depends on the kind of housing it is.. Dana 60?  9"? 8.8".  They
all aren't hard to fix.  I'd get the Chiltons manual for Ford pickups and
bronco's from 1976 - 1986.  Its a great help when your in a jam.
I'd also replace the bearings while you're in there..  Cheap insurance

Mark
'85 F-150


>From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
>Reply-To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
>To: "'80-96-list ford-trucks.com'" <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
>Subject: [80-96-list] Rear axle seals
>Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:25:52 -0600
>
>Greetings all,
>
>I recently got a 1980 F-250 and started fixing the rear brakes on Sunday.
>When I got the drums off, the inside was totally covered with black
>"grease"
>that smelled of gear oil not brake fluid.
>
>I believe that the problem is the seals around the axles, and am writing
>mainly to ask about what sort of job this is to fix.  Am I in for an
>ordeal?
>
>
>Any particularly important/useful tips for the job?
>
>Also, does anyone know of a particularly good junkyard for Fords that is
>nearish Boulder, CO?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Chip
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

From: "Don BigGrizzly" <don biggrizzly.com>
Subject: Re: Rear axle seals
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:33:00 -0400

My 93 Bronco has developed the nasty vibration at 65mph.  It has a new
transfer case and driveshafts.  Could the problem be worn axle bearings?  Or
worn axle shafts?  How much are new axles?

Thanks,
Don

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Mcknight" <chicken521 hotmail.com>
To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 10:15 PM
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Rear axle seals


> The problem with your rear axle is more than likely the seal  just as you
> thought.  Depends on the kind of housing it is.. Dana 60?  9"? 8.8".  They
> all aren't hard to fix.  I'd get the Chiltons manual for Ford pickups and
> bronco's from 1976 - 1986.  Its a great help when your in a jam.
> I'd also replace the bearings while you're in there..  Cheap insurance
>
> Mark
> '85 F-150
>
>
> >From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
> >Reply-To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> >To: "'80-96-list ford-trucks.com'" <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
> >Subject: [80-96-list] Rear axle seals
> >Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:25:52 -0600
> >
> >Greetings all,
> >
> >I recently got a 1980 F-250 and started fixing the rear brakes on Sunday.
> >When I got the drums off, the inside was totally covered with black
> >"grease"
> >that smelled of gear oil not brake fluid.
> >
> >I believe that the problem is the seals around the axles, and am writing
> >mainly to ask about what sort of job this is to fix.  Am I in for an
> >ordeal?
> >
> >
> >Any particularly important/useful tips for the job?
> >
> >Also, does anyone know of a particularly good junkyard for Fords that is
> >nearish Boulder, CO?
> >
> >Thanks in advance,
> >Chip
> >=============================================================
> >To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> >Please remove this footer when replying.
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 22:39:01 -0400
From: Shawn Clemons <sclemons vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Fuel in F150


>The new relays (fuel and EFI) look indentical, except for color, will have
>to scribe original Ford part numbers from original relays on them.

They look identical because they are. The original Ford ones were slightly
different, but most aftermarket replacements dont delineate between the two.
-------------
Shawn Clemons
'90 Bronco XLT 5.0EFI M5OD 4.10LS 4" 35's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.superford.org/users/sclemons/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 00:31:21 -0400
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: TDR consulting

Just wanted everyone here to know that I've taken on a
temporary consulting job (3-4 months) with the Dodge
Turbo Diesel Register web site.  Don't worry, I'm not
abandoning Ford Truck Enthusiasts --- just helping a
colleague, Robert Patton.  He's in a bind because his
admin has resigned.  I'm helping him automate the site
so a non-techie can admin it.  I'll be turning the keys
over to him as soon as possible.

Ford trucks are, and will continue to be, my primary
focus.  TDR will take about a day of my time per week,
occasionally a couple of days per week.  Don't think
this means I like Dodge trucks, I'm a Ford guy to the
core!

I wanted you to hear it from me, not someone else who
might spread false rumors.  If you have any questions,
feel free to ask.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:18:40 +1000
From: les williams <lesw cyber.net.au>
Subject: Re: water injection

Hi All,

First, I never meant my comment to be an embarrassment to Sam, if it
did, then I unreservedly apologize. It was however an invitation to join
in and find out if progress is being made.
I do think it's important to point out that in 'playing around' with the
injection we do have different objectives, far be it that I would be
critical of anybody else's theories.
My objective is to maximize the Propane charge, and to maintain the
same maximum timing (without relying on the knock sensor to cut the
timing) in the heat of the day as the cool of the night.
Sam is trying to have injection from lower down the RPM range. The net
result appears to be a fine collection of burnt out washer pumps. They
were never designed for near 100% operation. What is to be gained by it,
I'm not really sure, but Sam sounds like he is having a lot of Fun ...
BUT anything to do with 'vacuum motors' presents a whole new bunch of
problems as Jim points out. Unfortunately I'm old enough to just
remember vacuum wipers and they are no way compatible with the WOT
throttle position.

I do like the idea of using a length of PVC Pipe for a water container,
probably not quite as 'controversial' as a Beer Keg ...

regards
Les
'84-'85-'86 F100 built out of the spare parts bins of the Rest of the
World, Ford Empire ... powered by a clean 'tree-hugging green' 351 Clevo
on propane ... and ethanol ... and water(???) Geez, it's a bitch gettin'
the ethanol into the propane tank !



Jim Cannon wrote:
>
> Sam-
> As I understand it, you plan to use the water injection at higher load (say
> half- to full-throttle) to reduce detonation? If so, then I suspect you
> will not have the manifold vacuum that you need to drive the old vacuum
> wiper motor.  All of the old cars I ever had with vacuum wipers were pain
> in this area.  You'd step on the gas hard, in the rain, and your wipers
> would stop. In your case, the more you need the wiper motor for water
> injection, the less you'll get. Unless I'm missing something, you'd better
> re-think this one.
>
> Jim Cannon
> Houston TX
>
> At 17:26 01-09-00 -0500, Sam Means shared the following brilliant plan:
> <snip>
> >Now, my focus is on building my own apparatus, consisting of a vacuum
> >windshield wiper motor from a '57 ford driving a positive displacement
> >linear pump constructed from an air actuator cylinder and a couple of
> >in-line check valves. Finding the vacuum motor was not easy. Those things
> >are getting scarce as hen's teeth. Since the flow volume will be very small,
> >the pump stroke can be very short. The beauty of the vacuum motor is it
> >doesn't hurt it if it stalls,and it positively stops when the engine is
> >stopped. I have yet to test it, but I believe it has enough force to drive a
> >small diameter cylinder pump. I'm going to try a 7/16 inch bore to begin.
> >Further effort will come after a couple of weeks of vacation in cool weather
>
> Jim Cannon
> Houston, TX                            "A Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech
> '29 Ford Model A Phaeton                 and a helluva' engineer!"
> '80 Ford F-150 300 I-6 2WD              '63 Buick Riviera 401 V-8
>
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.

------------------------------

From: "Mark Mcknight" <chicken521 hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rear axle seals
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 05:45:40 GMT

The problem could be in the drive shafts, sometimes when the shafts are
replaced they aren't balanced right, making them dance around at higher
speeds.

Mark

'85 F-150

>From: "Don BigGrizzly" <don biggrizzly.com>
>Reply-To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
>To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
>Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Rear axle seals
>Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:33:00 -0400
>
>My 93 Bronco has developed the nasty vibration at 65mph.  It has a new
>transfer case and driveshafts.  Could the problem be worn axle bearings?
>Or
>worn axle shafts?  How much are new axles?
>
>Thanks,
>Don
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Mcknight" <chicken521 hotmail.com>
>To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 10:15 PM
>Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Rear axle seals
>
>
> > The problem with your rear axle is more than likely the seal  just as
>you
> > thought.  Depends on the kind of housing it is.. Dana 60?  9"? 8.8".
>They
> > all aren't hard to fix.  I'd get the Chiltons manual for Ford pickups
>and
> > bronco's from 1976 - 1986.  Its a great help when your in a jam.
> > I'd also replace the bearings while you're in there..  Cheap insurance
> >
> > Mark
> > '85 F-150
> >
> >
> > >From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
> > >Reply-To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
> > >To: "'80-96-list ford-trucks.com'" <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
> > >Subject: [80-96-list] Rear axle seals
> > >Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:25:52 -0600
> > >
> > >Greetings all,
> > >
> > >I recently got a 1980 F-250 and started fixing the rear brakes on
>Sunday.
> > >When I got the drums off, the inside was totally covered with black
> > >"grease"
> > >that smelled of gear oil not brake fluid.
> > >
> > >I believe that the problem is the seals around the axles, and am
>writing
> > >mainly to ask about what sort of job this is to fix.  Am I in for an
> > >ordeal?
> > >
> > >
> > >Any particularly important/useful tips for the job?
> > >
> > >Also, does anyone know of a particularly good junkyard for Fords that
>is
> > >nearish Boulder, CO?
> > >
> > >Thanks in advance,
> > >Chip
> > >=============================================================
> > >To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> > >Please remove this footer when replying.
> > >
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://profiles.msn.com.
> >
> > =============================================================
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> > Please remove this footer when replying.
> >
>
>
>=============================================================
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>

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------------------------------

From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Leak
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 08:32:20 -0600

Thanks for this tip.  It's likely that this is a problem as the flatbed
that's on the thing has all kinds of holes.  It may not be the only problem,
but it's a good place to start, especially since both seals appear to be
leaking more or less equally.

Chip

-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Falkner [mailto:sfal ala.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 9:14 PM
To: CAtkinson Circadence.com
Subject: Oil Leak


Hello, Check your axle housing vent tube for obstruction. If it gets plugged
it will cause seal leakage. I am not saying that is the problem but it is
the first thing that needs to be checked because it can make new seals
leak. --Stuart Falkner--

------------------------------

From: "Mike Persell" <persell home.com>
Subject: Auto Trans Cooler lines
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:09:38 -0500

Is there a source other than the dealer to get a formed set of trans cooler
lines for an 85 F150 w/AOD?

Thanks,

Mike Persell


------------------------------

From: "Mark Mcknight" <chicken521 hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Trans Cooler lines
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:16:27 GMT

You can purchase these lines at any auto parts store, mind you they might
have to be ordered.  Or you can also buy the lines and bend them to fit the
path that you want to run

Mark
'85 F-150

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.beseen.com/hobbies/ford150



>From: "Mike Persell" <persell home.com>
>Reply-To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
>To: <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
>Subject: [80-96-list] Auto Trans Cooler lines
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:09:38 -0500
>
>Is there a source other than the dealer to get a formed set of trans cooler
>lines for an 85 F150 w/AOD?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Persell
>
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
Subject: Re: Rear axle seals
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:35:06 -0600

Ok, from the sound of it, I should be able to do it just fine.  It sounds
like I would have to  press/tap the bearings into the axle housing too.

I'll post the results of Sunday's adventure....
Thanks for all the tips and information.
Chip
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Mcknight [mailto:chicken521 hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 8:15 PM
To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [80-96-list] Re: Rear axle seals


The problem with your rear axle is more than likely the seal  just as you
thought.  Depends on the kind of housing it is.. Dana 60?  9"? 8.8".  They
all aren't hard to fix.  I'd get the Chiltons manual for Ford pickups and
bronco's from 1976 - 1986.  Its a great help when your in a jam.
I'd also replace the bearings while you're in there..  Cheap insurance

Mark
'85 F-150


>From: "Atkinson, Chip" <CAtkinson Circadence.com>
>Reply-To: 80-96-list ford-trucks.com
>To: "'80-96-list ford-trucks.com'" <80-96-list ford-trucks.com>
>Subject: [80-96-list] Rear axle seals
>Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:25:52 -0600
>
>Greetings all,
>
>I recently got a 1980 F-250 and started fixing the rear brakes on Sunday.
>When I got the drums off, the inside was totally covered with black
>"grease"
>that smelled of gear oil not brake fluid.
>
>I believe that the problem is the seals around the axles, and am writing
>mainly to ask about what sort of job this is to fix.  Am I in for an
>ordeal?
>
>
>Any particularly important/useful tips for the job?
>
>Also, does anyone know of a particularly good junkyard for Fords that is
>nearish Boulder, CO?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Chip
>=============================================================
>To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
>Please remove this footer when replying.
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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Please remove this footer when replying.

------------------------------

From: LGRanch aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:54:35 EDT
Subject:  Drive shaft balance

Does anyone know how the factory balances the drive shaft on a Bronco. My
local big truck driveline repair center says that they can not do it because
of the double cardon. Is it possible that the factory balances the shaft
without the transmission end double cardon in place?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:46:30 -0400
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: Pictorial update

Ford Truck Enthusiasts Picture Gallery additions:

1983 Bronco, 1973 F-100 and 1962 F-100.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derek Whiteside <derekw rocketmail.com>
Subject: clattering 300 at startup?

Thanks to all who have already responded to this inquiry. I will now
provide some more info... first, here's the original post:

"My 92 F150 w/ 300-6 makes an awful racket at startup, especially when
it hasn't run for a day or so. I'm pretty sure it has to do with a lack
of oil, probably up in the head. It goes away after 3-6 seconds, at the
same time the oil pressure guage starts climbing. Is this common? Could
it be related to my oil filter (and anti-drainback valve)? Can I do
anything about it?"

So, here's some more info. 95,000 miles on the rig, I have owned it and
maintained it meticulously since 45,000 miles. Before then, I have
basically no idea what was or wasn't done to it.

I run 10w30 oil in it; I like to run Valvoline, but sometimes I run
Chevron or a similar national brand. I have run FRAM and Casite oil
filters; both have shown the problem. I will probably try a
high-quality oil filter the next time I do the oil change thang. By the
way, any of you interested in the WIDE variation in quality of oil
filters might like this page:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.xoom.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html

Anyhow, The only other info I can provide is that the noise corresponds
to what I can see on the oil pressure guage. When the engine is off,
the oil pressure guage "rests" at about 1/3 of its sweep. When I fire
up the engine (and hear the noise), the oil pressure guage sweeps down
to pretty much zero, and then, at what seems to be the exact time that
the noise stops, climbs up into the normal range. Note: all of the
above happens in 3-5 seconds.

The only other data point: Sometimes it does it more than others. It
doesn't do it at all if I've driven the truck in the past few hours.
What is surprising though, is sometimes the clattering only lasts a
second or less, and other times it can go on for 4 seconds. I recently
left town for the weekend, left the truck at home, and when I came
back, it did it only very briefly. Weird.

Anyhow, hope this information provides some more clues. It's one of
those things that, because I don't know what it is, it's bugging the
hell out of me.

Thanks again for any help,

Derek Whiteside
Albany, OR
92 F150 XLT Supercab 4x2 7' bed 300-6 5speed

--- FULSZBRONC aol.com wrote:
> How many miles on this engine?  What weight and brand of motor oil do
> you use
> and whose make of oil filter?  Have you changed your oil  at  regular
>
> intervals? So many questions....
> From my experience, a well maintained 300 I6 normally is relatively
> quiet
> when first started.  Any 300 owners out there with a different
> experience?
>
> Alex
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>


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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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------------------------------

From: "Phil" <imstobu stargate.net>
Subject: Re: fuel pump relay
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 19:59:27 -0400

Thanks Jason, that took care of the problem, and since I had bought the
relay for the fuel pump thinking it was bad, I just plugged it in for the
EEC

.Phil Beattie
66 F100
70 F100
91 F150 4x4


> The EEC relay controls the fuel pump relay.  May be the EEC relay is bad.
>
> >
> > > I have been having problems with my fuel pump relay on my 91 F150. I
had
> > to replace it in march because it stayed on even with the truck off. It
> > worked fine until the other day, the new one stayed on, when I hit the
> relay
> > it shuts off. I replaced it with a new one and when I hooked up the
> battery
> > it kicked the fuel pump on. I'm assuming the new relay is bad, but was
> > wondering what is causing them to go bad so fast. Any suggestions?
> > >
> >
> > I just took another look at the fuel pump relay, it is not the relay,
> > something else is staying on and causes the relay to click on when the
> truck
> > is off. Any suggestions on where to look, I'm at a loss at the moment.
> >




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 21:26:02 -0500
From: Jim Cannon <jcannon SoftHome.net>
Subject: Re: water injection

These would work, but sprinkler valves are design for larger volumes of
water (gallons per minute) and water injection needs much, much less than ....


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